Common Misconception Of Sexual Gratification Thru Transition

[Guest Bethany]

Recently it has come to my attention that even other transgender categoried peeps, can have the opinion that Mtf trans folk are what they are, primarily for the sake of sexual gratification. I believe I know why this bothers me, and that is no one can understand all the sacrifices a mtf makes in the quest for wholeness and repair of a splintered self. I feel absolutely nonsexual currently, and it is quite liberating. Conceptualy I can understand that a mtf with a straight male orientaion may have some sexual motivation for transition, but can it be considered as sexual gratification? or is it more of a basic desire such as a simple need of acceptance of their true self, from their orientation ideal?

It has taken me a lifetime to understand myself, and I have to remind myself that you can not expect others to have the same understanding of things from just a few moments of thought. There is also the fact that Transexuality is wrought with contraditons, such as being deceitful to others while at the same time presenting themselves more honestly, and that any expression of intimacy can be seen as gay or straight at the same time based on the perceptual context. Could it be possible that the whole question of sexual gratification as a motive, is just one of those contradictions? and I'm just not seeing the other side? Naw I think I'll just see this whole topic as a context of perception like Doctors tend to look at a problem and see medical issues , while the lawyers see the legal aspects, only the perverse can see perversion where it doesnt exist.

I'm curious to hear the opinions of others, on the issue of sexual gratification as a motive thing...

Bethany

[Sakura]

i don't read to much into the motives of others every one has their own reasons for doing what they do i have heard some really laughable reasons to transition my lover prefers me to be a woman my mom dressed me up and prostituted me out to men when i was little my boss told me i had to start living as a woman to keep my job these are all reasons i have heard from some really misguided ppl most honest to them selves trans ppl know that your journey doesn't depend on whats going on with your libido but how comfy you are in your skin and what you can live with but i would hate to be one of those that transition with sex as their motive even more so if they become one of the ruffly 35 to 45 % of those girls that are not orgasmic after srs so thats a something they will have to square with some day

but i can look at it from a different perspective most ppl don't know that allot girls like me that start hormones in their early teen years go until they are 16 or 17 with out feeling very sexual at all when our sex drives catch back up to us rapidly but its no worse that the average boy crazy GG my motives are mine its fun to be adored by men to be envied by other woman but i am a woman before i am a sex toy or an object heck i cant even say i feel like a girl or a guy since i really don't know how a girl feels and i was just pretending to be a boy so alls i can say is i think and act like me but i feel more comfortable in a female shell in a mans but was born in a males

Jennifer "Sakura" NVM

[Guest elenag]

Recently it has come to my attention that even other transgender categoried peeps, can have the opinion that Mtf trans folk are what they are, primarily for the sake of sexual gratification. I believe I know why this bothers me, and that is no one can understand all the sacrifices a mtf makes in the quest for wholeness and repair of a splintered self. I feel absolutely nonsexual currently, and it is quite liberating. Conceptualy I can understand that a mtf with a straight male orientaion may have some sexual motivation for transition, but can it be considered as sexual gratification? or is it more of a basic desire such as a simple need of acceptance of their true self, from their orientation ideal?

It has taken me a lifetime to understand myself, and I have to remind myself that you can not expect others to have the same understanding of things from just a few moments of thought. There is also the fact that Transexuality is wrought with contraditons, such as being deceitful to others while at the same time presenting themselves more honestly, and that any expression of intimacy can be seen as gay or straight at the same time based on the perceptual context. Could it be possible that the whole question of sexual gratification as a motive, is just one of those contradictions? and I'm just not seeing the other side? Naw I think I'll just see this whole topic as a context of perception like Doctors tend to look at a problem and see medical issues , while the lawyers see the legal aspects, only the perverse can see perversion where it doesnt exist.

I'm curious to hear the opinions of others, on the issue of sexual gratification as a motive thing...

Bethany

I'm going to give my opinion. Some of it sounds like I'm telling you how it is or a bunch of unverifiable blanket statements, but that's not my intention. The following represents what I've come to believe based on what I've seen and read, so read this as if it were an editorial.

Regardless of what name I go by or what surgery I have, I will always be human and part of being human is experiencing sexuality. I am not transitioning to fulfill a fetish sexual fantasy. I'm transitioning so that I'll be treated as female, more specifically a human female; however, a part of that treatment includes sex because frankly that's what humans do, at least when they're not working, eating, sleeping, or watching TV. I get the sense some believe being a woman means you're supposed to be asexual. I find that notion incredibly odd.

I believe there are two segments of transitioners; those doing it for sexual reasons, and those doing it to stay alive. The first group does indeed give the TG community a bad name, which only fuels outsider's suspicions that we're all doing it for sexual (read as "bad") reasons. The second group sees that and develops a deep fear of experiencing sexuality during transition or post-transition, so they embrace asexuality. Their fear of the fetish label is so strong, they will deny themselves a core aspect of being human.

I believe it's easy to distinguish motivations. All you have to do is look at someone's behavior to figure out what's motivating them. If the behavior is repugnant, then the motivation is as well. The difficult part is understanding the emotions one is feeling and what's driving them.

I know that sexual desire is a need to feel close and share something special with another person. It is not a fetish, and it never will be. If anyone feels sex is bad, try not to. Wanting sex or enjoying it is not wrong, regardless of whatever stage you're at during transition. Some may feel uncomfortable about it due to feeling ambiguous or awkward, but that's not the fear I was referring to. Feeling awkward is perfectly understandable to me. I have felt that, so I believe I understand. It happens to be the reason I'm celibate, but celibacy doesn't mean I don't have those thoughts.

Others may feel averse to sex due to a strong hatred of their genitals. Even thought I've hated mine, I was never fearful of them. I've always had the attitude of "I hate them, but they're there. Since I can't do anything about it, I might as well make the best of it." I don't feel I can speak for those extremely fearful of them.

Of course a big part of feeling asexual--or rather having a reduced sex drive--is caused by the t-blockers and hormones, so I'm sure some readers are objecting to what I've written, but consider that's your experience and not everyone else's. I have indeed felt an enormous drop in libido but it's not gone. For a spell I thought it had disappeared, but it didn't. It's still there. It feels more like what is described to me by genetic women. It's a longing for closeness and security as well as the other stuff.

Now about the first group (the fetish ones). Generally they don't bother me. I don't care what they do with their sex life or their bodies. If they find contentment with it, fine. I'm not going demand they can't because too many people strut about telling others what's right and proper. I don't like people doing that to me so I don't do that to others. None of that should imply I want to be their friend, because frankly I don't, but the only time I get exceedingly irritated and angry is when they infiltrate support chat and forums with their desire to "hook up", spam everyone with personals advertisements, or send me comments implying I'm like that, because those are blatant abuses of things meant to help those truly suffering. I have no patience for that s...crap.

Well, that pretty much sums up what I believe. There are many places I could be wrong, so it's actually a theory in progress.

[Guest angie]

Hey Bethany...Good Question/Observation.

In my case being celibate seven years January..Definently rules out sex as the reason for my transition.

Mine has been motivated by the absolute need to be whole and complete.

Having known since early childhood,then living a(normal)straight existance for forty seven years.

I revel in my femaleness...It may have taken one very long time to get here.

But i have never done something so rewarding for myself in my life.

Of course i get the (You're just being selfish routine)but,honestly who cares?

I am just living as the authentic person that i see myself as period.

If sex were the true motivation...I do not think i would be as balanced as i am...true.

What motivates others is a mystery if not to be who we already know we are.

I don't do chat,and Miss Sakura talks to a whole lot more folks than i do.

So her responses to what others blame,lay it on,or use as an excuse...made me laugh.

If one is not meant to be...Or thinks they might be..It all comes out in the wash.

Good Question Though...The first in some time.

Hugs Ladies,

Angie

[Sakura]

no those reasons i mentioned were all given to me face to face and the ppl doing the the telling could hardly keep a straight look on their face and it especially up sets me when some one uses molestation as a motive in such a perverted way because i was molested for a handful of years its a horrible scaring thing it will not turn you into a woman it turns you into an empty husk of a person sorry i started to rant but its a very touchy subject for me and i dont like the chat thing because quiet frankly ppl online lie and this maybe just my experiance but trans ppl online lie more than any one else if you want real awnsers to questions ask them in the real world

and i think the same way elemag sex is nothing to be ashamed of it shouldnt be every one does it or thinks about it i am and im honest about it i am pre op and i love having sex but its not my motive i have never felt really akward with my body i mean sure i dont have a great fondness of my genitals but as it stands im stuck with them so whats a girl to do i could hide my self away for 5 or 10 years untill i have the money for srs but F that im at the top of my game im in my prime i didnt take the pills and bite the bullet of coming out just to hide i love life and every aspect of it but i must say after 8 or nine years on hrt my genitals come up abit short if you know what i mean and are of little use to me anyway sorry i seem to rant when i find a subject that intrest me

Jennifer Sakura NVM

[Guest angie]

Sakura,

It is one of the joys of youth...sex is normal(amen to that)

Being that you have lived your life as a girl then a young woman...

The life that you lead is average for a young woman in her prime.

I have known many kids who were molested(my adoptive daughter repeatedly)

While it messed them up mentally and emotionally...

It sure didn't make them trans.

Like i tell uninformed people all the time...You Are Born Trans Not Made.

It sure as heck doesn't rub off on others either.(snicker)

Hugs Lady,

Angie

[Guest angie]

Hey Elen,

I would be a lying dog if i said i wasn't interested in sex.

I understand the longing to be held and assured and protected.

And as transiton has advanced...these feelings have only increased.

Now i have men coming on to me,opening my eyes in a new way.

Seeing men as attractive...

Then again,it's how have always seen myself,with a man since fourteen.

Will it happen?Ooooo,i only hope so.

Hugs Angie

[Guest]

The transgendered community is made up of many different groups none of whom have the same characteristics or motives. This is very confusing especially to the public who often confuse Crossdressers with Transsexuals. Even an educated Congressman Rep. Barney Frank got this wrong in the ENDA hearings and excluded us from the bill. Of all the groups the Transsexuals is born with it and is not usually sexually motivated. Most knew they were the opposite sex at an early age such as 3 thru 7. There are exceptions to this in those with supressed child hood memories. There are other groups though where the line is confusing and not as clear. Their motivations are different. This shouldn't matter here. On some sites certain groups can't even speak without being called vile names. That's why the rules are stricter here so every one who needs it can get help.

From talking to hundreds of thousands of transgendered we have found that there are some who are Transgenderists that live the opposite roll, take hormones and may even get facial and body surgery except for SRS. Some others identify with autogynephillia which is being in love with the idea or fantasy of making themselves women. There are those who identify as crossdressers who want breasts unlike a regular crossdresser. They are often driven by compulsion and take hormones but are afraid they will have too much growth to be noticed. None of these groups are Transsexual. The treatment for them is not the same as a transsexual either. The mind is a very complicated place and is not always clear to everyone. This should only be treated by a a professional. With the exception of regular crossdressers without compulsive behavior everyone should see a gender therapist as the first step in any treatment including hormone use. Why? Body changes will be noticed and most are permanent without extensive corrective surgeries. What happens to those who are sexually motivated who find out too late that 30% of SRS patients cannot orgasam which is the same rate for genetic women by the way. The transsexual will be fine usually (6% dissatisfaction rate compared to the other combined groups who are 30% disatisfied from a survey here). Without the means to satisfy themselves though the other groups become more suicidal instead of less like the transsexual after surgery. THis is a huge problem and is why we accept everyone Transgendered for support here no matter what their motivation is. No one should be made to feel ashamed for being trangendered on a different part of the spectrum. We are here to help everyone especially those who are confused. Clearly more research is needed for all groups so better treatments can result from it for everyone. Whose to say that others wern't born to the susceptability to be transgendered too. One thing about getting a thousand emails a day is that you don't just see successes, you see those who made mistakes too and want to go back to being their old selves but they can't. This is more common than you think and is why we are working on more scientific surveys in the research department here.

People get along here, That shouldn't change. Someone who self identifies with autogynephillia or is a CD deserves our help and compassion too. There is one commonality that all Transgendered have which is extreme anxiety over our condition. Ignoring it ruins lives. We cannot judge others as we all have no where else to go and talk except the handfull of support sites like this one. Transgender people have the highest incidence of suicide which we are here to prevent. So when we talk against a particular group it can silence them and maybe make them become a statistic. HEre every group has a right to be heard and gain support. Everyone deserves respect here.

Laura

[Guest Bethany]

Wow I'm impressed with the level of elightened self awareness from everyone that has responded. I'm thinking that people who operate not from true motives, but from mere rationalizations, may deserve pity, but also they should be feared. The direction of thought this is moving me toward now, is to point out and or question the fact that sexuality often satisfies other basic human needs. The need for intimacy is something that sometimes can only be fulfilled through sexuality. My Current nonsexuality has enabled me to fulfull the need for intimacy in so many other ways, I have never in my life felt so close to my family is one example.

omg thanks you all... I've just realized something very important from this discussion. It may be better to view myself as reduced or to have lowered sexuality and not to give away more then I need to achieve my goals.

Just because I would gladly give everything away doesnt mean I should hrmmm... lol sorry that was a personal revelation moment "nothing to see here, move along".

At any rate, the term sexual gratification can be muddied, or made nebulous when you include the points that sexuality can have other motives with in itself and or satisfy other needs. Knowing the difference between motive and and rationalization seems to be the key point here. Once again I feel more self aware, but at the same time confused by others, I guess there are some things I will never understand, without the experiences that would allow whatever understanding that can come from them.

Ouch, did that make your head hurt too?

/hugs Bethany

[Sakura]

hello big boss ladie been a while since we have talked and again sorry i know i sound like im bashing and putting down guess i do get abit to passionet about my opinions and ideas but i have a real hang up with dancing threw hoops for some one trying to sell me a fetishtic fantacy im here to help trans ppl with real problems and i dont have a problem with most other trans groupes but im sorry but lieing about being a trans person with made up problems and experiances just erk me for the simple reason that i am a passionate person i tie my heart up with these guys and girls that need help i have set up all night and the only thing that broke me away from my screen helping some of them is that i had to go to work and come home and right back to them only to find out that they were lieing about everything like when august he felt like a dear friend of mine even though we never met died then to find out that it was all a gag angered me sorry will debate this later i keep getting my attention stoln away from what im try to do here

Jennifer Sakura NVM

[Guest angie]

Morning Ladies,

Laura,if there is one thing i have learned since coming to terms with my true self...

Is to have No predujice towards others...After all,who am i to point fingers or not include.Hmmm?

Being A Transwoman confuses the heck out of the average citizen.

Heck,just using the term Transwoman to describe myself,throws others a curve ball.

As i explained to my roomies sister...We are not genetic/natal/or birth women.

And don't claim that right...But we are women...Have no doubt about that...We Are Women.

GG's at times,unless really open and accepting,need this explaination to get the concept.

Being an open and up front kind of girl...I get the question of motivation all the time.

And...It is a pleasure to set the record straight about why we are on this path.

It is worth being out to see the light of understanding come into their face(oh i get it)

Now acceptance is another thing all together...That takes lots of time patience and understanding...

On each of our parts.

Remember girls,You Are Representing The Sisterhood When You Interact...Show how we truly are.

Caring,compassionate,loyal and very emotional,loving human beings that have to be true to ourselves.And that for most,it's either transition or die...What a choice.You And I Chose Life.

It can't get much simpler than that.

Hugs My Sisters,

Angie

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Bethany,

Being 'asexual' like all the other sexual orientations-it is not a choice...I should point out the difference between abstaining from sex and celibacy they are a 'CHOICE' people choose not to fulfill their sexual desires ...But I for example am 'asexual' no interest whatsoever in sex...If I 'choose' to have sex with a male or female there's no desire on my part...I have not interest whatsoever...Being 'asexual' is not a choice...I often hear people using the term asexual when in reality they mean abstinence or celibacy-for them the desire's still there but they choose not to act on it....There are a number of different types of 'asexuals' the thing we all have in common is lack of real 'sexual' [as in the desire to have sex] attraction'... some prefer same sex relationships some heterosexual some bi sexual. some have sex some don't...Asexuality is more complex than what the term normally represents...BUT AS NOTHING TO DO WITH ABSTINENCE OR CELIBACY! I guess asexuality it's not really a sexual orientation as such just a state of mind that one feels 'totally' comfortable with...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Bethany]

I thought that was a great string, its always nice to hear others opinions based on their experiences, and of course its always nice to be reminded of the big picture, Thanks Laura...

/hugs Bethany