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Orthodox Judiasm And Transgender


Guest wishe2beSarah

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Guest wishe2beSarah

Hi all, I have a problem.

My problem is this: I am an orthodox Jew, living with my orthodox Jewish parents and immediate family. I was born a boy, and I hate it. I wish I was a girl. I know that legally, I am able to do this because I am 18. My problem is religion. i know there is a problem for cross dressing, due to wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, but I am not sure about my issue, with becoming a transsexual. I also know that my parents, who are strictly orthodox jews, will probably kick me out of their house, which is the only place I've got to live right now, if I do anything against orthodox Judaism, or what they want. Becoming a transsexual will probably fall under both. Please help me.

Thanks a lot if you help.

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Guest Donna Jean

Hi all, I have a problem.

My problem is this: I am an orthodox Jew, living with my orthodox Jewish parents and immediate family. I was born a boy, and I hate it. I wish I was a girl. I know that legally, I am able to do this because I am 18. My problem is religion. i know there is a problem for cross dressing, due to wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, but I am not sure about my issue, with becoming a transsexual. I also know that my parents, who are strictly orthodox jews, will probably kick me out of their house, which is the only place I've got to live right now, if I do anything against orthodox Judaism, or what they want. Becoming a transsexual will probably fall under both. Please help me.

Thanks a lot if you help.

Honey..I'm sorry...that is a very tough spot...

Let me ask you....can you talk with a Rabbi confidentially about this? You need someone with some clout on your side..

Is that a possibility?

That is the best that I have to offer you at this time...

Good Luck, Honey

Huggs

Donna Jean

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Guest wishe2beSarah

I don't want to, since if there is something against it, it's gonna get back to my parent's and... well then I'm probably living on the streets.

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Guest Donna Jean

I don't want to, since if there is something against it, it's gonna get back to my parent's and... well then I'm probably living on the streets.

No...no...no...Honey...

What I mean is talk confidentially ...like on the phone and not give away your idenity...

See exactly what the ruling is on Transsexuality...this is NOT cross dressing!

Is that a possibility?

Huggs

Donna Jean

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Guest wishe2beSarah

only one problem. any rabbi I know the phone number to will probably recognize my voice or ask for a name, if they can't tell at first.

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Guest Donna Jean

only one problem. any rabbi I know the phone number to will probably recognize my voice or ask for a name, if they can't tell at first.

Maybe I don't understand ...

But, any Catholic can call a priest half way across the country...anonamously...

Can't you call a Rabbi far away?

Donna Jean

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Guest wishe2beSarah

i wouldn't know a rabbi's number that isn't around where i am, and there isn't just a list of orthodox rabbis of the world, so far as i know.

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There is a list of Orthodox Synagogues World wide, here is a link, select a zip code and look at the Shuls listed, they have phone numbers and the Rabbi's names.

http://www.walk2shul.com/

You can goggle just about anything.

Love ya,

Sally

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Guest wishe2beSarah

Transsexualism is a medical condition, not a moral standing.

Almost every major medical organization in the western world recognizes it as a legitimate condition. There is plenty of evidence supporting a biological causation. If you want to know more, feel free to do the research yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiology_of_transsexualism is a good link to check out, as it references a large number of research results that have been discovered so far on those of us with this condition.

The problem with this reasoning is that Judaism is older than modern medicine, therefore not taking any of it's developements into account.

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  • Admin

The problem with this reasoning is that Judaism is older than modern medicine, therefore not taking any of it's developements into account.

The same can be said for almost every religion, Sarah.

I can understand how torn up you are about this. I am a Jew also, but not Orthodox. Is it at all possible for you to consider

practicing your faith in a Reform temple? You would still be within the faith, still an observant Jew, but in a place much more

tolerant of new ideas. Please give it some thought.

Carolyn Marie

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Guest Alice4016

Assalamu Alalkium,

I noticed this and thought I would add a perspective coming from a rather Orthodox religions perspective as well; Islam...don't go running!! lol :P

Anyway, I know a lot of our teachings are the same; the laws of Moosa as (may Allah swt have mercy upon him) (Moses) do mention that dressing in the clothing of the opposite gender is Haram (forbidden); but when I talked to my Shaikh (scholar, not Imam...not sure your comparison) he gave me this ruling (first I post the question to him, I am sorry it is so long but when we go to a Shaikh we need to give as much detail as possible, and then his response. InshaAllah this will give you some comfort as Islam and Judaism have a LOT in common.):

(Question Posed to Shaikh Ahmed Kutty:)

I am very nervous about asking this question it is something I have been searching for an answer to but have not yet been able to find a definitive answer I feel comfortable basing my life upon. Please when you hear the nature of this question understand that this is something I would really like to know the answer to so please take me seriously.Okay I am a revert to Islam only a year ago but Islam is my life I have devoted everything to Allah. I have legally changed my name so hopefully that explains why I have a Muslim name but am a Revert.

Before coming to Islam I struggled with my gender identity. I was born physically a male but after two years of therapy and a diagnosis from a doctor I was diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria Disorder and I underwent a sex change operation to allow my body to match my mind. This was not done out of sexual lust or other reasons I feel that this saved me from suicide as I had tried twice before to kill myself but Subhan Allah I failed. After my operation I felt as if I was able to live again it gave me hope and purpose because I was living in a way that felt right instead of something that made me hate myself and I no longer tried to commit suicide and inshaAllah shall never try again.I am going to school to study Islamic Studies and have devoted my life entirely to Islam. Everything I do, every thought and action I make, is first weighed against my understanding of Islam and the Sunnah. I guess what my confusion comes from is this:

I have read that Islam forbids men from imitating women and women from imitating men but I was diagnosed as having the brain mapping of a female, so I was told by my doctors, and have always felt that I am a woman so by my doctors diagnosis was that I am not imitating a woman I am a woman. My doctor told me that the surgery would make my body inline with my mind and I would have to agree that it has it has cured me of the torments I felt internally. Torments that were keeping me from being able to love myself let alone love God. Also I have read that God does not create an illness without creating a cure but it is the responsibility of Man to find this cure. Ny disease was Gender Dysphoria Disorder, and the cure was my operation. Would this not be in the lines of Islamic thinking?

Clearly if I was gaining some sexual pleasure or other petty pleasure from doing this then I would understand how it would be wrong and shameful but the only pleasure i received from my operation was the ability to live my life to focus on things more important than the feelings I was having inside. It allowed me to search for and find God it allowed me the mindset to embrace Islam. I had my surgery before embracing Islam which is also one of my concerns would it not then be changed to a good deed and forgiven?I try to live as pious as possible I do not drink I do not smoke I give to charity as much as possible I have handed out many Qurans and always try my best to answer questions of my friends and family about Islam. I have taught friends to pray and I have helped one person embrace Islam themselves.

I am not perfect in any way I pray every single day for forgiveness and when I make a mistake I try my best inshaAllah to repent and to never make the same mistake twice. I conform to the rules of Islam for women and I follow them to the letter. I wear hijab modest non form fitting clothing I do not interact with Brothers unless absolutely necessary and have never had will never have a relationship out side of my marriage. Even before coming to Islam I was with nobody expect who I am married to. I have never missed a prayer since reverting and I am saving with my family in hopes of going on Hajj very soon. I hope to use my Islamic Studies degree to teach in an Islamic school and help others embrace Islam and learn of this wonderful perfect religion.

What I am trying to say is I pray that Allah considers my deeds to be good and that He sees I am trying my best inshaAllah to please Him with my life. I devote everything I do to Him I love Him more than my family. My entire life is Islam and it would devastate me to learn that I can no longer be a good Muslim because of my surgery. I am in tears right now with worry about your response but I pray that inshaAllah it is good but we do not write the rules God does and so I felt it necessary to ask about this because even though I may feel one way that does not mean it is okay. Allah knows best and scholars are the best sources we have outside of the Quran and Hadith for advice; and I have searched the Quran and Hadith to no avail and so I come to you in desperation seeking advice.Please help me I do not wish to loose the one thing that has given me purpose in this life and brought me comfort thinking about the hereafter. Islam is everything to me.

~Nashida "

(Response for Shaikh Ahmed Kutty)

"I empathize with your condition; I also commend you for your earnest desire to practice Islam and remain steadfast in it. I advise you to turn to Allah seeking comfort and forgiveness. You can do so by reading the throne verse (chapter 2: 255 ) as well as the last verses of the same chapter: 284-286.

You need not feel guilty about your action. The Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered us to seek treatment and take medications when we are sick; we are also allowed to undergo corrective procedures when necessary. So your action does not fall in the forbidden category.

Remember that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. He tells us in the Qur'an: "Say: "[Thus speaks God:] 'O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God's mercy: behold, God forgives all sins - for, verily, He alone is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace!'" (Qur'an: 39: 53)."

I pray inshaAllah (God willing) that this helps you in some way. I know that Judaism has different rulings on some things, but the commonality between our religions is extremely large (they did come from the same source though lol, so that may have something to do with it lol :P). I am always open to talk with you, and help you through this if I can in anyway inshaAllah. SubhanaAllah I have been able to hold steadfast to my faith through transition, and I pray to Allah swt that you can hold true to your faith as well; and that your parents are understanding of your condition, and help you in the best way possible to reach a goal where in you can be happy because without happiness we can not focus our lives upon what we need to in order to reach Paradise and in turn become focused on the negative damaging aspects of this dunah (this world). InshaAllah you have found some comfort, best wishes to you and please do not hesitate to contact a Rabbi; but be careful because I am not sure if it is the same for you but for us an Imam and a Shaikh are very different in their levels of knowledge and understanding of Islam. An Imam (Rabbi to you I believe...similar to a preacher) simply leads the prayer, and assists on small issues (usually family related) while a Shaikh is a very learned scholar who has a wonderful understanding of the religion. You may wish to contact a Jewish "Shaikh" lol..instead of a Rabbi if you have them, because a Rabbi may be influenced by local and popular thought and not by the true tenants of your faith.

Best of wishes,

Nashida

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Guest Alice4016

The problem with this reasoning is that Judaism is older than modern medicine, therefore not taking any of it's developements into account.

Remember, science can not exist without God creating the "science" for us to research; I didn't know Orthodox Judaism rejected science...:(...

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I am not Jewish, but have been making good progress within the Christian church. I had a meeting with the therapist, the preacher, and my wife and I were there. We talked very openly about my condition. Once it came across that it was a medical condition and not some fetish it opened up a lot of doors. I have since met with the elders and the leadership team. All in all about 30 people in the church and am accepted by them. I dont know alot about the Jewish faith, so I dont know if that would work for you.

Cris

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Guest wishe2beSarah

Alice, I wish to inform you that, from what i understand of your writings, a rabbi would hold both the duties of the two religious leaders you mentioned. A rabbi must be learned and be able to answer questions. In addition they do sorta lead the prayer services.

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Guest wishe2beSarah

Cris, I have a feeling now the the Christian religion is probably more open minded. This is good for people who feel at home being Christians, but I wish to be an orthodox Jew.

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Guest ChloëC

Hi Sarah,

I did a little searching on the internet, and I think I understand a little of your problem. I have known some Orthodox Jews and to me, their religion was a very involved part of their lives, something they didn't want to give up.

So rather than tell you the problems of your religion, if there was any way of contacting a support group whether by phone or even on the internet to see if there are any Orthodox rabbis (or other Orthodox Jews) anywhere that understand and will listen, as Donna Jean has suggested, I would try it. Even if the groups aren't Orthodox (like the college campus Hillel), they may be able to steer you towards people that are.

It's been my observation that no matter how strict a group culture is, that there are people within that group who may have widely varying views, but don't express them openly. It wouldn't surprise me that there are Orthodox rabbis who are not opposed to gender variance discussions.

I know some here have a much more difficult road than others. Hopefully you can find the support you deserve.

Hugs

Chloë

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Guest Alice4016

Alice, I wish to inform you that, from what i understand of your writings, a rabbi would hold both the duties of the two religious leaders you mentioned. A rabbi must be learned and be able to answer questions. In addition they do sorta lead the prayer services.

That's good it makes it easier for you to get your information :D I understand what you mean about wishing to stay Orthodox Jew; don't loose contact with your religion, and keep your faith; it will stay with you inshaAllah.

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Guest wishe2beSarah

Thanks a lot Carolyn, I am checking out the link you gave me, and I finally feel hope. I've known about the keshet organization they mention in the pdf, but I didn't know they helped trans gender people.

This may be my last post on this thread, if so don't worry, it's because I have found acceptance.

Thanks to everyone who has posted her.

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  • 7 months later...
Guest Hayley

Sarah,

I am a frum Orthodox Jewish woman who has transitioned and remained married and frum! I live in Brooklyn and my wife still loves me. As far as I know, we are the only such couple in existence, but there are many other frum Orthodox Transsexuals. Don't let it hold you back if you know it's who you are! I am already 33 and started when I was 30, but I very often regret not having overcome my fears earlier.

I suggest you join the Dina List if you are interested in moving forward.

http://dinablog.wordpress.com/dina-list-membership-page/

Regards,

Hayley Rivka

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  • 4 months later...
Guest Tammy's_Liberation

I know this is really old...and i have debated on starting a new topic but figured i would just comment here....I used to be Chasidic..... i'm still trying to find here i belong.... Reform and conservative don't do it for me theologically...not enough "meat".....but orthodox in any form makes me sad..I don't feel accepted. I had a Chabad Rabbi call me a freak and a sinner when i spoke to him.... I basically agree with orthodox on 90% of things.... being shomer shabbos and keeping kashrut to a strict level... but the things i disagree with are 1) their stance of gay people and 2) that women can't be Rabbis.....the last one gets me the most.... i just could never accept that.... i now am close with a very special female conservative Rabbi who knows my story and acept me for who I am....tho i at times really miss the orthodox community...i don't feel i've rejected it.... rather i feel rejected by it....

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Hi all, I have a problem.

My problem is this: I am an orthodox Jew, living with my orthodox Jewish parents and immediate family. I was born a boy, and I hate it. I wish I was a girl. I know that legally, I am able to do this because I am 18. My problem is religion. i know there is a problem for cross dressing, due to wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, but I am not sure about my issue, with becoming a transsexual. I also know that my parents, who are strictly orthodox jews, will probably kick me out of their house, which is the only place I've got to live right now, if I do anything against orthodox Judaism, or what they want. Becoming a transsexual will probably fall under both. Please help me.

Thanks a lot if you help.

I aked my Rabbi about the passage on question. The Rabbi said that non-jews living at the time Leviticus was written did have temple rituals in which males would mascaraed a females. The Rabbi said that the passage in questions refers only to clothing while inside the temple. Hope this helps

Jen61

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  • 5 weeks later...
Guest Crossroads

I know it's been a while, but I'd like to respond to this.

I grew up Conservative Jewish. There is a temple (reform) in atlanta that works with the LGBT community. I've inserted the link below. It is specific to Atlanta, but there's a ask a rabbi form. I think they can help you.

I will say something that someone told me. They were Conservative, and I asked about the law of desecration of one's own body. They reminded me that that rule is in place with the exception of times when it is a matter of one's life continuing that they need to change their body. They told me that their transition (they were MTF) was made so much easier when they realized this, as it was a matter of their life. Perhaps this can help as well.

http://www.therainbowcenter.org/

All the best.

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  • 1 month later...

I used to be hassidic, but the whole gender issue was tearing me apart and I became suicidal over the issue. I consulted with 2 Haredi rabbis and they both said the same thing: pikuach nefesh (saving a life) trumps everything. Torah requires we always choose life. Would that world accept me today? No. But Jewish law is clear. If you have a medical/psych problem you are obligated to get treated.

I have a pic if I could figure out how to post it.....

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