A Little Confused About Something

[Guest Wraith_Saibot]

I figured I would stick this in the "I'm not sure" forum, since I am a little confused as to where I (and my situation) would fit. Please move it if it goes somewhere else.

I've been thinking a lot about starting the journey toward SRS, but I'm a little hesitant with the whole real life test. Everything I read about it says I would have to spend a year living in the gender role of my choice. But, I'm more or less androgynous in terms of my preference of gender. I have no desire to dress or present as exclusively female. My desire for SRS would be to change my sex from male to female, and to keep my "gender role" the same. Not sure if that makes since.

So, I guess I am a little confused as to how the real life test would play out. I mean, I'm already living the way I would if I were to have the surgery; no real change in lifestyle or anything. Would I have to present as female for a year just to get the SRS?

[Carolyn Marie]

I've been reading posts here for 18 months, hon, and I must say your question is unique.

I am not aware of anyone who wanted to get SRS but continue to present in their birth gender, or in some androgynous in-between

mode. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with androgyny, it seems highly unusual to seek SRS to change genders, while not

really wanting to change genders.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly. If so, I apologize.

The purpose of the RLE is to ensure that the person is emotionally, mentally and physically prepared to live life in a new gender.

If you are saying that you do not seek to live life, fully, 24/7, in the new gender, but wish to keep some facets of your birth

gender, I do not see how you would get through the RLE and be approved for SRS. Nor do I know of any doctor, even those overseas,

who would do the surgery without a letter.

My knowledge and experience are limited, so I would not be surprised if what I said is not 100 percent true. I'll be interested in

seeing what others say.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Wraith_Saibot]

I've been reading posts here for 18 months, hon, and I must say your question is unique.

I am not aware of anyone who wanted to get SRS but continue to present in their birth gender, or in some androgynous in-between

mode. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with androgyny, it seems highly unusual to seek SRS to change genders, while not

really wanting to change genders.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly. If so, I apologize.

The purpose of the RLE is to ensure that the person is emotionally, mentally and physically prepared to live life in a new gender.

If you are saying that you do not seek to live life, fully, 24/7, in the new gender, but wish to keep some facets of your birth

gender, I do not see how you would get through the RLE and be approved for SRS. Nor do I know of any doctor, even those overseas,

who would do the surgery without a letter.

My knowledge and experience are limited, so I would not be surprised if what I said is not 100 percent true. I'll be interested in

seeing what others say.

Carolyn Marie

I am merely wishing to get SRS for changing my anatomy from male to female. And yeah, I know that's kind of unusual. I've been lurking around here for some time and haven't really found anyone with my situation.

I am physically male right now, but don't present as either male or female. It's more of a "without gender" than a combination of the two, or in-between gender. Maybe androgyny was the wrong word?

So, I was confused as to what I would have to do when it came to the real life test. This was my concern, that I wouldn't qualify because I wouldn't intend to live as a woman during the real life test (or after the srs).

[Drea]

Regardless of what you plan or think you want, it all starts in the same place which is counseling. I think many make the mistake of thinking they have to know what they want or have a certain desired outcome (i.e. to transition, to get SRS, etc) before finding a therapist. Many do find during the process that what they believed they needed at the stare is not what they really need. For example, many thinking they must have SRS might find that SRS isn't at all important once they start living full time.

Everyone is different and in my opinon I think its worth keeping ones mind open as to where treatment will lead when one goes into counseling.

Carolyn mentions a common understanding of the purpose of RLE, but there is more to it. After all, living full time does not in any way prepare one for SRS and SRS has very little to do with regards to outward presentation to the world except in very limited circumstances.

To understand better, one can look at the entire standards of care (SOC). The whole purpose of the defined standards is not to a step by step path for transition with certain hoops to jump through, etc. Many do view it that way however and in a practical way it becomes the defacto process. This idea is further perpetuated as there is no shortage of "gender theapists" out there who point to the SOC and say something equivalent of "well there it is, you know what you have to do, so go out and start doing it and prove it to me".

The real root for the standards, like any medical intervention, is to define acceptable treatments and the conditions under which they are appropriate. Likewise, the course of treatments range from the least invasive/most reverseable to the most invasive/least reverseable. The idea being that the patient can be helped by the least invasive/most reverseable interventions and proceed to the more invasive/less reverseable. Contrary to what one might perceive based by those active on sites like this, when it comes to trans people seeking treatment, most do find relief short of the most extreme interventions. Many find therapy gives them sufficient relief. Others find that homones are enough and so on.

SRS being very invasive and not reverseable is considered the most extreme intervention and thus has the toughest requirements before its deemed appropriate.

Within the course of treatments, RLE serves a couple purposes. Including what Carolyn said, it also acts as a speed bump to slow down the rush to surgery and it also gives the person opportunity to separate the idea of SRS from that of living full time. It is fairly common for someone who has yet to start treatment to think they absolutely need SRS. I can't tell you just how many I have encountered who have decided that SRS wasn't at all important once they get into RLE and are living full time. It is very common. Had anyone suggested that to them before they started, they would have vehemently argued differently.

So I have wandered around the mountain a bit to get to my point.

RLE does not necessarily mean wearing dresses and high heels all the time. It is a period of time where one is working with a therapist to a greater or lesser degree after the person has changed their outward gender role. Typically legal name change is the key marker for the start of RLE as that legally forces one to update their documentation and thus must confront issues with their job, etc. There is also some expectations of change in outward presentation though they don't need to be so dramatic. Not all therapists have the same expectations and to a degree the defined start of RLE may be tailored to the individual circumstances.

I have known of people who have stated they just wanted SRS, played the game with the professionals, did RLE and then got SRS. Soon afterward, they went back to living full time as a man. How they managed long term, I do not know. For all I know they remained as happy as they were when they got the surgery and went back to living as a guy.

For you, RLE would be whatever you work it out to be with your therapist to the degree that RLE may apply. It is also possible during counseling that you get insights that cause you to decide differently or your therapist may not feel your a surgical candidate. That is something you can not know until you get into therapy and start to talk about the why you want or need surgery.

Whatever you do, in all likelyhood, a period of therapy would be part of the process. It would probably be for at least a year.

There are always options within the standards for special circumstances and individual needs. On the other hand there are many who insist they are the special case or otherwise should not be held to some particular requirement or another.

Good luck in your search.

[Guest symempathy]

I figured I would stick this in the "I'm not sure" forum, since I am a little confused as to where I (and my situation) would fit. Please move it if it goes somewhere else.

I've been thinking a lot about starting the journey toward SRS, but I'm a little hesitant with the whole real life test. Everything I read about it says I would have to spend a year living in the gender role of my choice. But, I'm more or less androgynous in terms of my preference of gender. I have no desire to dress or present as exclusively female. My desire for SRS would be to change my sex from male to female, and to keep my "gender role" the same. Not sure if that makes since.

So, I guess I am a little confused as to how the real life test would play out. I mean, I'm already living the way I would if I were to have the surgery; no real change in lifestyle or anything. Would I have to present as female for a year just to get the SRS?

I understand your feelings, well, sort of, because I want the same as you do.

I'm more feminine than masculine, so that makes me an androgyne. However, that is only in my brain. I don't care about how people perceive me. If they think I'm a male, it's fine. If they think I'm a female-to-male woman, I won't be offended. If they think I'm abnormal, that's okay, too.

Really, I don't care about gender expression or gender identity. I may be male in one aspect and female in another. I'm never concerned about that.

I accept the fact that my chromosomes are XY, which cannot be changed. Hence, if people think that makes me a MAN, so be it. I'm not bothered because I cannot change my internal system. What I can change is my genitalia.

I want to have SRS to change my penis into an organ that looks and functions like a vagina. That's it. That will make me lose significant amount of testosterone, I know, so be it. I don't like penis on me.

I really don't know whether my future gender therapist will require me to give a proof of Real Life Experience/Test. If that is the case in order for me to receive SRS, I will do whatever it takes to get it over with. Like Drea said, many people have done so to achieve their goal. I will do so, too, if that's necessary.

The only thing I hope is that I won't have to take hormone in order to qualify for the surgery later.

Best wish to you

Minh