I'm A Woman

[Guest Angelray]

Hi

As the "spouse" (there is a reason why I won't say wife)to a TG, it upsets me that you can say that to your wife. You like Life being a girl? Well, let's get a taste of reality here. While you and yours have a life, please stop and think about the lives which you have "destroyed". I know you have to do what is best for you,but.......think of others also. What has being a natural born "girl" gotten us? I will tell you what it has gotten me and a few natural born "wives" that I know.

It has gotten us the LOSS of a husband, father, grandfather, brother, brother-in-law, a partner, an income, a social life, and a FAMILY UNIT. That is what we have received.

My question to you is this? Instead of taking female hormones to be female, why not take male hormones to be "in line" with what you were anatomically given at birth? It would be so much cheaper, and more people would be happy.

As much as I try and strive to sympathize, empathize, etc., I cannot help but think through all of this how SELFISH people can be. I have nothing against this lifestyle as long as prior committments, responsibilities, and promises are kept. Trust is a thing of the past. And, how many times have I heard that YOU and society make us lie and cheat. No, we do not. That is YOUR choice, not ours. I hate to keep thinking this way as I am a doctor and very educated on this topic, but do sincerely feel that most people who live this alternative lifestyle do not take into consideration the above mentioned.

I continue to weep on a daily basis and have been living with this for greater than 10years. I came here for assistance in understanding and get so upset when I read some things here.

Thanks for listening.

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Welcome to the Playground, Angelray.....

Well, obviously this is a tender subject for everyone....

Most of us lost many of the people in our lives and I won't go into the "Lie & Betrayal" aspect again....

But ......

My question to you is this? Instead of taking female hormones to be female, why not take male hormones to be "in line" with what you were anatomically given at birth? It would be so much cheaper, and more people would be happy.

Reparative therapy doesn't work....All that would do is make the person even more confused...

A number of MTF here were given Testosterone before transition and it made people depressed, aggressive, suicidal and basically a mess...

That is not the answer.

What is the answer?

I don't know...I don't think that anyone knows...

I know that this all causes a lot of pain for everyone....

I'm sorry....I wish you peace...

Donna Jean

[Guest ladyamy]

I feel sorry for you that you can't move past your pain.

its hard for someone who dosent know how it feels to be like us.

[Guest Krisina]

I can't believe what I read posted about a lifestyle choice. But then again I have read things like this before.

Being born as a woman has given you the LOSS of ...

Just stop and think what you just said. What about if the person was born gay would you say that is a lifestyle and just go back to choosing being attracted to women. What about the women who married someone who gets cancer or died in defending their country. Were they born as women who have loss too.

Being born transgender is NOT a choice. No one would face ridicule, abandonment of family and friends loss of work rejection of society and go through countless hours of "painful" laser and electrolysis as a lifestyle. No one would choose this as a lifestyle (IT'S NOT a lifestyle) to become infertile and even harder to be able to date others, knowing that only 4 percent of marriages stay intact. It's not a lifestyle. Transgender folks have enough to go through in life with one of the highest suicide rates.....

Support your spouse show some compassion and empathy. You weren't born with this medical condition. It is a medical condition that those folks with a medical plans can have some surgeries covered. I have never heard of a insurance company willing to pay for procedures for a Lifestyle.

Krisina

[Guest Miss_Construe]

Illness often takes the ones we love. I hope you can come to terms with the loss of your husband and accept your partner. We want to support you.

take heart, it does get better.

<3

Amy

[Guest SummerDay]

I continue to weep on a daily basis and have been living with this for greater than 10years. I came here for assistance in understanding and get so upset when I read some things here.

I personally value truth, friendship, and sharing and when somebody lies to me, or betrays me, or steals off me I take a very dim view. That's putting it mildly.

A decision was made and there were consequences. I don't think anyone can make any excuses.

Now what? Saying "move on" is callously trite.

I've no idea if GD like homosexuality is entirely a hardware or software problem but I imagine GD has a root cause and that cascades through a persons psychology. Like baking a cake it's hard to undo.

Who and what you are are intrinsically bound so TG is deeper than lifestyle. If I was after lifestyle it would be easier and cheaper just to buy a yacht.

Life dropped a mountain on my head and some people got away with it. That hurt. A lot. I am a Buddhist. Did that solve anything or make it easier? Not especially. I'm having to face up right now to getting a sense of my own life back and letting go of a few things. It's small steps for now until I'm back on my feet.

For what it's worth, I've never been married but if I had a wife I'm hoping it would have been someone as intelligent and kind as you.

[JenniferB]

I am sorry that you feel you lost your spouse Angel.

I believe it is unfair to you because this condition should not have been hidden from you before you decided to get married.

Imagine when you were born you felt you were born in the wrong body. And no matter how much you try and convince your parents that you should be the opposite gender, you are forced to live a life that feels wrong. As you grow up this feeling becomes progressively stronger, especially when you enter puberty and see the changes to your body that you really don't want, mostly to the point of hate and disgust. And there is nothing you can do about it. That's where most of the suicides happen and that's why Laura's is here. We do our best to bring hope to those who feel they have none. Gender Dysphoria is a very strong feeling we face if we don't transition and I would not wish it on anyone.

Transsexuals have two paths they can follow and will suffer no matter which one they choose. One path they will suffer greatly inside with gender dysphoria but keep the peace with loved ones. The other path the dysphoria will go away, but then they risk losing everything they care about. Also, they will be stared at, laughed at, mocked at, and always have to be aware of what's around them because of transphobic people who hate them orwant to do them harm for no reason other than they are different. That's why no one here wishes anyone else has to go through this. It's like a curse.

We do have significant others here who can tell you what they went though. Still you have to live the way that is best for you. I guess sometimes the best some trans people can hope for is that their loved ones, especially their spouse learns about gender identity disorder. Then an informed decision can be made whether to accept this lifestyle or not and do what must be done. I hope some day you realize your spouse doesn't have much of a choice and you can become at least a friend.

Also, I hope you can be more forgiving of those who are upset and snap at you. Many of us have had really hard lives, made harder by those who don't understand, and therefore treat us like freaks when we just want to get on with our lives as best we can. We have to deal with great pain ourselves.

I hope your hurt and grief won't last too long and have the ability to forgive. I understand it may take time. I'm sure your spouse would give anything to still be a part of your life and the family's. I also don't think this is selfish as much as not really having a choice. You may lose your spouse anyway because the spouse won't be able to handle the medical condition of gender dysphoria anymore.

Jenny

[Guest Mayi]

Hi

As the "spouse" (there is a reason why I won't say wife)to a TG, it upsets me that you can say that to your wife. You like Life being a girl? Well, let's get a taste of reality here. While you and yours have a life, please stop and think about the lives which you have "destroyed". I know you have to do what is best for you,but.......think of others also. What has being a natural born "girl" gotten us? I will tell you what it has gotten me and a few natural born "wives" that I know.

It has gotten us the LOSS of a husband, father, grandfather, brother, brother-in-law, a partner, an income, a social life, and a FAMILY UNIT. That is what we have received.

My question to you is this? Instead of taking female hormones to be female, why not take male hormones to be "in line" with what you were anatomically given at birth? It would be so much cheaper, and more people would be happy.

As much as I try and strive to sympathize, empathize, etc., I cannot help but think through all of this how SELFISH people can be. I have nothing against this lifestyle as long as prior committments, responsibilities, and promises are kept. Trust is a thing of the past. And, how many times have I heard that YOU and society make us lie and cheat. No, we do not. That is YOUR choice, not ours. I hate to keep thinking this way as I am a doctor and very educated on this topic, but do sincerely feel that most people who live this alternative lifestyle do not take into consideration the above mentioned.

I continue to weep on a daily basis and have been living with this for greater than 10years. I came here for assistance in understanding and get so upset when I read some things here.

Thanks for listening.

If suddenly my mother were diagnosed as definitive as cancer, she would be in pain, need help and I would go there and support her. Many people in the neighborhood would support her too. Maybe news would show the story of a compassionate woman and people would feel like praying for her and hopping she heals somehow.

In the other hand, if I finally told my mom that I have GID, she would not understand, reject me, my siblings would make fun of me, my neighborhood would too, I would be fired from my job for any invented excuse, social security would deny me their services, I might appear in television too, but it might be probably in some talk show commenting as the 'freak who wanted to be a woman' who died from some random strangers hate.

That is how it feels having being affected by GID. We are denied to live a normal life like you, and treated sometimes we are treated as sub-humans. Certainly your spouse shouldn't have hidden this condition to you... but do not think this is a choice. If your spouse really has GID, then your options are either to understand and act as a friend/spouse/or whatever you both redefine your relationship; or to think of it as an unfair treatment and leave.

I'm sorry both of you are suffering, hopefully you can understand the situation and live a happy life.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I take offense at calling transitioning "selfish". There are many of us here, if not all of us here, who tried to live as our naturally born gender in an effort to please the people around us at the sacrifice of our own personal happiness. Some people here were husbands. Fathered children. Raised children and sent them off to college. They fulfilled their duties as a parent and a husband. They saw their children being born, raised and watched them grow into adults and begin lives and careers for themselves. Some of us tried to live as men and we weren't happy doing it, but continued to do it to make our family happy, our bosses and co-workers happy, our wives or girlfriends happy. We hid our misery to make sure everyone else was happy.

..and then when it's finally overwhelming and we cannot take it anymore, we come out as who we are and express our plans to finally be happy for ourselves and now all of a sudden we're the selfish ones.

Calling transitioning selfish is nothing more than a guilt trip designed to make us feel ashamed for thinking about ourselves and our personal happiness. Everyone else around us are living as themselves and are happy, why can't we have the same luxury for ourselves? As a person, do we not have that same exact right to live as we want, just like everyone around us?

The fact is, we do.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I have been trying to get my head around your post for the past few hours, because it is on so many levels.

Let me say first I am a 63 year old MTF who has now successfully transitioned. I did it late in my life. I was not able to save my marriage although I tried desperately for a year and a half. I had been married before so my children were grown and married, so this last marriage was to be a time of winding down and enjoying life, no children involved, It had already lasted 12 years when I got so depressed and suicidal, I had to seek help. A gender dysphoria trained therapist diagnosed me as transsexual after a lot of working with her, something I had felt was probably true my whole life. The last two and a half years have been really hard, and I got pretty well beaten up mentally - mainly from some of these same issues you discus.

My first wife - who died in childbirth - was a medical doctor, so I know medical practice. I was a building services professional (not going into that for security reasons) for 41 years. I am probably way overeducated. But I have tried to understated gender dysphoria my entire life, and until I came to be on Laura's Playground, I never did have a clear understanding. I think I do know it better now, what it is and certainly how it affected me.

You are angry, and justifiably so. Unfortunately, I went through most of this with my former wife. Our divorce was finalized about six months ago and it was not friendly. She may hate me for the rest of her life, and unjustifiably so.

Let me see if I can help. Reading through, I see you really want to understand better.

Hi

As the "spouse" (there is a reason why I won't say wife)to a TG, it upsets me that you can say that to your wife. You like Life being a girl? Well, let's get a taste of reality here.

I like being human, and I now enjoy being alive. I don't really know how that makes me want to 'be' a girl? I suppose I would word it, 'I just want to be me, and learn to love my life as I am.' I can't say I ever liked life being a guy, either. Both expressions leave me wondering how I could have ever chosen one or the other. I was never a guy, I can never be fully a girl - so what am I? I am me. I am just trying to learn to accept that, to learn that what I am is 'okay.' I am trying so desperately to love myself and just feel like I belong in this world.

For 50 plus years, I KNEW I didn't belong in this world. Most here will say something like that.

While you and yours have a life, please stop and think about the lives which you have "destroyed". I know you have to do what is best for you,but.......think of others also. What has being a natural born "girl" gotten us? I will tell you what it has gotten me and a few natural born "wives" that I know.

It has gotten us the LOSS of a husband, father, grandfather, brother, brother-in-law, a partner, an income, a social life, and a FAMILY UNIT. That is what we have received.

Well yes, I did think about my wife, and her family, and her friends. Her word was 'betrayal. I didn't mean to betray her and my therapist says I never really did any of what she claims, not intentionally. You have to understand, I was terribly confused and all alone for 50 plus years. Being transsexual is a horrible secret we try to keep from everyone. We think of ourselves as mentally ill, perverted, and just 'wrong.' Like I said - I didn't belong on this earth.

It is amazing I didn't kill myself when I was 12 years old. And I am not proud to say, but I have had two suicides, that were guaranteed to work, but did not... and I survived to face terrible consequences. We Gender Dysphoric carry terrible guilt! TERRIBLE! Please understand that. If my wife had not been so horrible evil to me at the end, I would have that guilt now, but she released me from it, and... it was a horror story...

But we finally realize, and sadly so, that in the end, all our life was a lie - from the very beginning. We correct that by becoming ourselves - we have to, we just do. We TS don't MEAN to betray people, in fact we have spent our life trying to be what others wanted us to be. We actually betrayed ourselves... really betrayed our very own soul

My question to you is this? Instead of taking female hormones to be female, why not take male hormones to be "in line" with what you were anatomically given at birth? It would be so much cheaper, and more people would be happy.

Grin - been there - did that for my wife - just to see. It flat out does not work. I think if you are up on this , you will understand that we TS cannot be treated in a 'repairmen' manner, pharmaceutical or therapy. Male hormones really did make me temporarily crazy, I wanted to murder someone - anyone. I could not go to work, I could not function. What I was 'given at birth' was a transsexual condition.' I didn't ask for it. I don't like it now. But I am what I am. I have a woman's mindset. I have always been female in my head, am now, always will be. It's just the way God made me.

As much as I try and strive to sympathize, empathize, etc., I cannot help but think through all of this how SELFISH people can be. I have nothing against this lifestyle as long as prior commitments, responsibilities, and promises are kept. Trust is a thing of the past. And, how many times have I heard that YOU and society make us lie and cheat. No, we do not. That is YOUR choice, not ours. I hate to keep thinking this way as I am a doctor and very educated on this topic, but do sincerely feel that most people who live this alternative lifestyle do not take into consideration the above mentioned.

I have to explain - in no way, shape or form, is this a lifestyle choice. If a person says that, they are either not transsexual, or they are confused. I live as a woman because I HAVE TO LIVE AS A WOMAN. It's not better or worse than living as a man - I mean as far a being human. It's just that i was 'playacting' when living as a man, and niw I am living as I really am. All my life I have prayed to the Creator to fix me, in childhood years - to make me into the girl I felt I was Later ad a young person, I prayed to NOT have my boy body changed into a 'man.' In my later years, I just prayed asking "WHY WHY WHY???" Finally I got older - and it dawned on me. I prayed to the Creator to GIVE ME RESOLUTION. I needed to end my misery. I did not know or care what would result as long as it got resolved.

The Creator answered. I should have killed myself? No - didn't work. I should just 'endure' and die as a male, unhappy and depressed? Didn't seem to work, I just couldn't continue that way. So I shuld get help and see what my options were? BINGO!

My only choice? To accept what I needed to become my true self. I guess that is a hard decision, you would think so, anyway. But I didn't have a choice. After years of being miserable, at the last 1/4th of my life I could be happy? Oh my oh my...

I continue to weep on a daily basis and have been living with this for greater than 10years. I came here for assistance in understanding and get so upset when I read some things here.

Hon, I know... 90% of what is said here are to the Gender Dysphoric. It gets slanted sometimes. BUT - we try to help people like ourselves cope with this debilitating condition. I would like ou to stay with us here on Laura's Playground. There are other partners and spouses of transpeople - and they can really help you, I believe. And I will be glad to work with you one on one if you want to.

Thanks for listening.

I so do hope this helps.

Lizzy

[Guest Elizabeth K]

This has slipped off the radar. I would like to see more people commenting, perhaps?

Lizzy

[Guest AiAmAngel]

Hi, I'm not very old. Honestly I'm like 16 and definitely don't "belong" in this topic. I just want to say I agree 100% with you!

Had it been by circumstance that I wasn't born post 90s and knew what a transsexual was since I was like 12, god knows who's life I would've/could've screwed over. Based on my sheer personality, I could hypothesis that had information not been made available to me (say I'd been born 1973?) I would like have either been on the suicide list or a "drag queen" in some bar. I couldn't imagine for a second marrying another woman. And- had I done so, I couldn't imagine throwing other people's lives away in order to pursue something so self-oriented.

So yeah, I feel ya' girlfriend (the irony is I don't speak like that in real life at all).

I'll link a video relating to the topic below.

-Good Luck

[Guest Mina89]

I don't really know what I could add. I haven't been married nor had kids, I'm only financially responsible for myself, and I haven't had friends since middle school largely because I was afraid they would find out what a freak I was.

One of the reasons I stopped dating years ago was that I was afraid of being deceptive. I'm a hopeless romantic, so anything short of full acceptance in a relationship does not fit my ridiculous ideal.

After I came out to my parents, they told me not to go through with transition or else they would never speak to me again. When I said I would do it anyway, they gave me a line about throwing my life away and ruining my family name. All I can say to that is I never asked to be brought into this world and I wouldn't mind changing my name after all the years of negligence and emotional blackmail.

Maybe it's selfish, but I don't think my efforts to hide to try to please them should be discounted just because they didn't know at the time that I was doing it.

-Valerie

[Drea]

I have to say I tend to have a great deal of appreciation for Angelray's feelings. For a community that want's others to understand how it feels, it is amazing how little the community is willing to understand the feelings other others. Instead the message is "well we are sorry, we hope you get over this anger and by the way we are totally justified in what we do".

I truely think one has to be willing to understand someone else's point of view and recognize they are entitled to their feelings before one can expect them to understand one's own feelings.

I cannot help but think through all of this how SELFISH people can be.

For whatever reasons, justifiable or not, yes it is selfish.

I have nothing against this lifestyle as long as prior committments, responsibilities, and promises are kept.

I think if one is going to transition they very well should do all they can to meet their obligations, responsabilities and promises.

[Guest Melanie54]

My dad back when he was dying of colon cancer, had an affair. His reason was that he felt life ebbing out of him. He was desperate to fix the "something is wrong" feeling in his mind. My mom found out, and our family was destroyed.

I wanted everything to be normal, which is a selfish thought given that my dad betrayed his marriage.

My dad had an affair. That was a selfish action.

My mom moved taking away my mother. That was a selfish action.

We all were selfish.

Two years later he found out he had cancer. He was given maybe 6 months to live. He called my mom in Colorado and asked her his most selfish desire.

"Will you be by me when I die?"

He was afraid of death and had no right to expect any sympathy, but sometimes people have a right to their selfishness. She came home. The family was whole and for a few fleeting months there was a happiness. From one selfish desire came great joy giving all of us some peace.

We are selfish beings by nature. There are very few true selfless acts. My Girlfriend broke up with me because she couldn't handle a relationship at the time. That was selfish of her and I lost her as a lover, but gained a beautiful friendship. Not long after(actually the breakup forced me to realize that I am a TS) I told her that I had lied to her. I had manipulated her and made her love a false image. I told her that I was a TS. I told her to clear my guilty conscience. I did it for a selfish reason. But are friendship became that much deeper.

Everyone is selfish, but is what we let come of that selfishness that matters.

I do not know what you can possibly be feeling. However I would much rather my dad become a second mom, than be buried. I would my girlfriend by my boyfriend than have lost her. I hope you stay and talk to others that have been through similar experiences here on Laura's Playground and I wish you all the happiness of the world.

Melanie

[Guest KimberlyF]

I have to say I tend to have a great deal of appreciation for Angelray's feelings. For a community that want's others to understand how it feels, it is amazing how little the community is willing to understand the feelings other others. Instead the message is "well we are sorry, we hope you get over this anger and by the way we are totally justified in what we do".

I truely think one has to be willing to understand someone else's point of view and recognize they are entitled to their feelings before one can expect them to understand one's own feelings.

I don't speaking for others and I try to speak for myself. A little over a week ago, I posted a thread with the same title which I think the OP may be referencing. Since that time, my life has plumeted. I found myself once again in an endless loop. Do I hurt those I love which ends up hurting me, or do I hurt myself which ends up hurting those I love. My wife *KNEW* there was something wrong all week. She begged me to talk to her. Finally Sat night I did. I told her that I could never be happy. Ever. And I laid out the choices in front of me. We were both crying and again sharing our fears of losing the other. And she said she is so afraid of all that my oldest is going through to add 'this' to the mix right now. So once again, as I have done my whole life over and over I told her I will stop. I will do everything I can for my family. I can't stand to see them hurt. And then minutes later I found myself struggling to breath in the middle of my biggest anxiety attack in over 6 months. I go out of my way to include my wife.

Now I ask you if maybe your advice could also be given to Angelray? Shouldn't a self-described empathetic doctor educated on the subject know that taking testosterone will do zero towards dealing with Transsexuality, since they're in this marriage for 10 years and that requires understanding and communication on both parts. And how can Angelray expect her SO to understand her POV and feelings without first expecting the SO to understand her feelings? Who goes first??? After 10 years shouldn't they have both had a crack?

Just my own question cause I do speak for myself why wasn't this moved to the SO board by a mod? If it's legit, wouldn't support by another SO be the best answer instead of stiring a hornets nest?

For whatever reasons, justifiable or not, yes it is selfish.

I become very selfish around good German Chocolate cake. I think we're all selfish at times. And I know a whole lot of people who are not selfish enough.

I think if one is going to transition they very well should do all they can to meet their obligations, responsabilities and promises.

Again, just my own life to go by. I will love my wife till the day I die. Even if we the couple drift apart. And Anyone who walks away from their kids is lower than dirt.

I wouldn't wish transsexualism on anyone on the planet, and I feel for the family members. I don't know how they do it. When I first started going to therapy last year I said all that I expect from my wife regardless of how angry she gets at first or if she wants to separate is that she doesn't hate me and wants to at least be friends. Anything else is extra. I can not and still don't expect that she has to stay with me. But I didn't purposefully do anything to hurt her, and I still do love her.

[Guest Miss_Construe]

My dad back when he was dying of colon cancer, had an affair. His reason was that he felt life ebbing out of him. He was desperate to fix the "something is wrong" feeling in his mind. My mom found out, and our family was destroyed.

I wanted everything to be normal, which is a selfish thought given that my dad betrayed his marriage.

My dad had an affair. That was a selfish action.

My mom moved taking away my mother. That was a selfish action.

We all were selfish.

Two years later he found out he had cancer. He was given maybe 6 months to live. He called my mom in Colorado and asked her his most selfish desire.

"Will you be by me when I die?"

He was afraid of death and had no right to expect any sympathy, but sometimes people have a right to their selfishness. She came home. The family was whole and for a few fleeting months there was a happiness. From one selfish desire came great joy giving all of us some peace.

We are selfish beings by nature. There are very few true selfless acts. My Girlfriend broke up with me because she couldn't handle a relationship at the time. That was selfish of her and I lost her as a lover, but gained a beautiful friendship. Not long after(actually the breakup forced me to realize that I am a TS) I told her that I had lied to her. I had manipulated her and made her love a false image. I told her that I was a TS. I told her to clear my guilty conscience. I did it for a selfish reason. But are friendship became that much deeper.

Everyone is selfish, but is what we let come of that selfishness that matters.

I do not know what you can possibly be feeling. However I would much rather my dad become a second mom, than be buried. I would my girlfriend by my boyfriend than have lost her. I hope you stay and talk to others that have been through similar experiences here on Laura's Playground and I wish you all the happiness of the world.

Melanie

Any time we do something for ourselves we can be called selfish. My father took his own life almost a year ago. I could call that selfish. My wife left me when I came out to her. I could call that selfish. The difference between the story posted and my story is that I tried to come out to my wife at every step in our relationship, even before we started dating. Her response was that everyone felt that way and I should just deal. I had to practically yell in order to get her to finally listen. Who was the selfish one? People tell us their life story almost every day in ways that most of us just don't notice or understand. Sometimes we even spell things out and they are still ignored.

In an earlier response I used illness to describe TG. I know fully that this is not the case but wanted to offer a hand to the posting author. I hope she can see what she has failed to see in the 10 years she has been with her spouse. The animosity she shows in simply not being allowed to use the label "wife" indicates her selfish motivations. Maybe my compassion is dulled by the reasoning the author shares with my past spouse.

<3

Amy

[Guest Patsy]

I've read and re-read this many times, in an attempt to "sympathize, empathize" with Angelray but I'm sorry, its just not happening!

.....as I am a doctor and very educated on this topic

Clearly not 'educated' enough, if you genuinely believe that I am indulging myself with a lifestyle choice...how dare you!

If the chronology of your own situation is as you state, then I'm afraid the phrase "Physician, heal thy self!" springs to mind.

If this thinly veiled helping of spite and resentment is the best you can manage by way of resolution at this point, then you truly do have

my sympathy.

"Selfishness"? "Betrayal"? Oh my, I could give you chapter and verse on that and, to whatever degree I have unwittingly been guilty

myself, I can assure you, I've been repaid more than generously!

I gave those to who I 'owe' the 'responsibilities' you mention fifty years out of sixty four, and nearly died in the attempt.

The books are balanced as far as I'm concerned Angelray, sorry!

I really do have to wonder what this post is doing in the MTF Forum, in truth. What of the new or fragile member, possibly suicidal as so many

of us have been, who arrives here desperate for support, encouragement? Is it appropriate for them to be confronted with this, and potentially

pushed over the edge?

And Drea dear, I've long since given up trying to fathom your agenda, but might I suggest that iconoclasm is only 'clever' when not overdone

to the point of parody?

I think I'm done here.

Patsy

[Guest pippa m]

I think Lizzy got it right.. it's not a lifestyle choice we make - it's a decision to stop hiding who we really are

Unfortunately society sees things in black and white when it's really all shades and colours of the rainbow.

For the darwinists among us - there can be no evolution without diversity therefore we are all part of lifes rich tapestry - a necessary part

I can't offer a creationist view on this since I'm atheist - maybe someone else can comment??

Ultimately, I feel for you Angelray because I see the pain my path has caused my loved ones but I assure you it's a better path than living a lie

I think we can go a long way to helping this issue with education, which encourages acceptance and therefore makes it less of a taboo - that has to be better for everyone surely?

Pippa