Stealth?

[~Nova~]

My roomie has been living the trans life with me for 7 or 8mths and she has made a very interesting observation. the one thing we want is not to be noticed, not to be outed, just to live our lives. At least that's what she tells me we all say. She adds, Why then do we only hang around the trans world?

I've been thinking about this for a while. I spoke to my twin about it this weekend. (Megan is my twin BTW) Lucy, my roomie, wants me to cut ties. To live stealth. She tells me all the time that I complain about the double life and yet i surround myself with trans friends. I know I do it for the comfort, for the acceptance factor. Even tho I have never had an issue. Never been "clocked". never even questioned. Never.

She wants me to stop hanging around trans peeps. Not all as some are very good friends, but stop hanging out at the trans parties and socials. She wants to move into a more normal position. hang with only cis gendered persons. Stealth.

I'm going. In march I will have my SRS and after that I will, if I can, stop all ties with the trans world. Not Laura's. I love this place and will have a debt to return at least ten years long. ;-)

Toughts?

Autumn

PS, sorry that is written terribly, I'm at work and have like 5 seconds to put my thoughts down.

[Guest rynae]

i don't know if i would ever go stealth, be completely out, or somewhere in between. There are some people that want to live comfortably without the pressure of being trans. Others feel as though they can help the trans community and live in stealth. Then there are those who wish to go all out with being trans without caring what others say about them.

Everyone has an idea of how they would like to live life. To be honest i really don't know how i would like to live life with being trans.

[Guest EvenClose]

Im not sure I understand your room mates misunderstanding about living a double life...Talking to people, whether they are trans or not, doesn't affect your stealth status. Plus, room mate needs to understand that "we" are people too and its nice to talk to people who have a better understanding of who you are.

Lauras is a super awesome place. Yet, its no substitute for real life interaction. In real life you can see the emotional responses in someone's eyes, their body language. You can gauge the truthfullness in their demeanor and all. Words on a screen can be interpreted any way a person wants. Thats why every forum always has quite a few misunderstandings and without good moderation it would go south quickly. (<3 u mods, you all really do do a wonderful job here)

As far as stealth goes...I honestly believe that total stealth is highly unlikely. If you transition then move and never speak of it, then it would help, but for how long?

How long can you go and carry with you the secret of your entire life? Im assuming your working at the same job? Those people know if you are.

Really I think you need to specify to what degree of stealth your contemplating. Your original birth certificate will always be on file. So unless you have the courts lock your records (and some states won't do it) then there will always be a chance of being outed.

I plan on going into counseling. I will be working with LGBT clients and everyone in between. So even if i was stealth, and I could try, eventually some bigot would wanna shut me down and use it against me.

I honestly think worrying about who thinks what about ya is just to troublesome. Ya know? I was under the impression that you transition for yourself. If thats true then why do I go back to trying to hide something again?

Just some thoughts,

Miranda

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

If I was 20-40 years old, I'd probably think seriously about stealth....

But, I have a long history and I can't hide that....

But, I don't walk around with a sign on that says "I am Transsexual"...I am taken as natal all the time...

If need be, I'll tell that I'm trans....but, mostly live as me...

Huggs

Dee Jay

[Sally]

And now for my opinion on the subject of stealth.

We spent the first part of our lives 'living the big lie' pretending to be someone that we were not, hiding who we really were - why now should we try to continue 'living the big lie' and try to pretend that we were never any different.

Like Dee Jay, I do not wear a sign - not really needed when you are my size but I do not care so much what people may think - I did not go to all of the trouble of digging a tunnel out of my prison cell just to come up in another one - I went under the wall and out side to freedom - stealth might have been an option if I had transitioned before puberty but I doubt it - I have always gone my own way even when pretending to be male.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Risu]

Don't cis people have trans friends? Wouldn't your roomie qualify as said cis person? Could it possibly be your roomie who just wants to go back to a normal life?

I agree with what DJ said. If Stealth is a possibility for me I am not gonna have "I am Transsexual" Tattooed across my forehead no matter how stylish that would be. I would still tell my close friends and any potential partners because honestly I don't want any friendships with someone who might not be able to accept me.

Also, what this says to me when I read between the lines is basically this: "I don't need my trans friends support anymore." Which makes your roomies idea all the more appealing but couldn't there be someone who needs you, as a friend, role model and pillar of support during their transition? You have so much to give back to the TS community it would really be a shame for them to lose you.

However, I can understand wanting to go stealth. Its very tempting. For me trying to be stealth was very emotionally stressful which lead to physical stress and unhappiness all over again even though I passed just fine and never had much trouble.

You have been through hell and you're ready to emerge to the otherside. If you feel stealth is an option and want it, you deserve it. As for me, If I could have it again when I retransition I wouldn't take it even after SRS.

[Drea]

My roomie has been living the trans life with me for 7 or 8mths and she has made a very interesting observation. the one thing we want is not to be noticed, not to be outed, just to live our lives. At least that's what she tells me we all say.

If by we you mean the two of you, well and good. It reads as if "we" is the more general concept of all of us. If that is the case, I can say there are plenty trans that want to be visibly out.

She adds, Why then do we only hang around the trans world?

Well those transitioning, active in the trans world tend to find that common element comfortable. Plenty don't, but because they aren't centered on the community and don't feel the need to brag about their everyday non-trans interactions, well it just isn't visible within the trans world.

Never been "clocked". never even questioned. Never.

That is a long way from being being around people on a regular basis and for them to never wonder. They aren't going to speak of it. Even if they wonder though, is it a big deal?

I personally feel of stealth is one of those things that, while interesting, is a reflection of some ideal image that may have little to do with reality. To me the word suggests hiding. Why hide? Shame?

Seems to me that there is a big difference between living as a woman or man without advertizing (nor hiding) being trans, and living stealth. In turn there is a big difference between those two and living openly (and possibly identifying) as trans.

I wonder sometimes, do those who seek to become stealth, are they trying to run away from being trans? Perhaps less than total acceptance? Perhaps insecurity?

And where does this idea of stealth come from? By far most of the discussion about steath I see is by those in transition or pre-transition. In a way that would be explained by the fact that those in stealth aren't around. On the other hand, there are people that talk of their experience stealth and so on, aren't they breaking stealth to do that?

I'm going. In march I will have my SRS and after that I will, if I can, stop all ties with the trans world. Not Laura's. I love this place and will have a debt to return at least ten years long. ;-)

Why go stealth when you have SRS? Why such an arbitrary point? Because your all done, that there is no difference than any other woman? Not making any judgement here, just asking since that is a very common rationale.

[~Nova~]

I may not have worded that as well as I should, and I mention that in my prior post.

I'm not advocating forgetting the past, but I am saying that constantly surrounding myself with other TG is not allowing me to integrate with the normal population of cis-gendered individuals. I could never forget my past, as much as I wish I could, I cannot.

Lucy feel that the only way to break away from the G world and live truly as a woman is to live as a woman, not as a TG woman. Does that mean hide the past or the fact that I am, no, it means don't revolve around the TG world.

Autumn

[Guest Donna Jean]

I personally feel of stealth is one of those things that, while interesting, is a reflection of some ideal image that may have little to do with reality. To me the word suggests hiding. Why hide? Shame?

That may be how you see it, but there many out there that felt they were a female since a few years old, they transition and just want to live as the woman that they are. It's not hiding and it's not shame.....

I see no shame in being stealth.....if that is how one wants to live their lives....

You say that ..."to me the word suggest hiding...".....well to many it doesn't...it's how they want to live their lives and to marginalize them because they don't want to be associated with being Trans or the community is doing them a disservice...

I think it very unfair to suggest that it is "Shameful..."

Seems to me that there is a big difference between living as a woman or man without advertizing (nor hiding) being trans, and living stealth. In turn there is a big difference between those two and living openly (and possibly identifying) as trans.

Sure there is a difference in those....but, one is not better than another....

There is no right or wrong way to live.....

It's not our place to judge what way to live is right or wrong or that stealth is shameful or hiding......

In another post you talked about everyone saying that someone de-transitioning was being judgmental of them........

So is suggesting someone living "Stealth" is shameful or hiding.

We all deal with life in different ways....Someone else's way may not be for us....

I wonder sometimes, do those who seek to become stealth, are they trying to run away from being trans? Perhaps less than total acceptance? Perhaps insecurity?

So what? It's the way that they deal with it. We all deal with it differently. I don't feel it's fair to stigmatize those that take a different path...

It's your opinion that that they may be running away from being Trans....again, that's their call how they want to handle it...

Why go stealth when you have SRS? Why such an arbitrary point?

Why not!???It's HER decision. There isn't a playbook for all of this...

Why question what she wants to do any more than that girl that de-transitioned?

In each case, it's their call.....

Because your all done, that there is no difference than any other woman? Not making any judgement here, just asking since that is a very common rationale.

Again....it's her call and she need not explain herself to anyone.....

Donna Jean

[Sally]

I see stealth as being for some people and not for others and each of us has our own personal reasons for our choices just as we did for the need to transition and how far we had to go to feel like we were complete.

I can only speak for myself and I do not care about going stealth nor do I intend to spend time only with trans-people - there are so many different people around - enjoy life's diversity and be proud that you are a contributing factor in it, a diamond with only one facet does not exist - we each supply another facet to this jewel!

Love ya,

Sally

[~Nova~]

If by we you mean the two of you, well and good. It reads as if "we" is the more general concept of all of us. If that is the case, I can say there are plenty trans that want to be visibly out.

Nope, just me and her. I don't really care what the rest of the world does.

Well those transitioning, active in the trans world tend to find that common element comfortable. Plenty don't, but because they aren't centered on the community and don't feel the need to brag about their everyday non-trans interactions, well it just isn't visible within the trans world.

That is a long way from being being around people on a regular basis and for them to never wonder. They aren't going to speak of it. Even if they wonder though, is it a big deal?

No, but for her, she feels that we immersed ourselves in the TG world. She doesn't want ot live that life. She wants a more normal life. To her, that means distancing herself from the LGBT community. Does that mean that we can't have friends, no. Does it mean that we can't go to a meeting here or there, No. What it does mean is that we don't have to go to every party, every meeting and only be around the trans world. Before I started, we didn't even know this lifestyle excited. She wants to live as two girls, period. And so do I.

I personally feel of stealth is one of those things that, while interesting, is a reflection of some ideal image that may have little to do with reality. To me the word suggests hiding. Why hide? Shame?

Stealth is the word used here. I used it. I'm not hiding anything, but I don't have to live everyday talking about trans life. I don't need to think about being a boy everyday. All we want to do is fall into a normal pattern of life. I'm not shamed at being trans. Only that I was to stupid to do it at an age where I might have saved myself a lot of embarrassment and aggravation. The whole purpose of me taking hormones is to transition. Not to stop halfway and live a middle ground. Transition to completion and then move on as a female, period.

Seems to me that there is a big difference between living as a woman or man without advertizing (nor hiding) being trans, and living stealth. In turn there is a big difference between those two and living openly (and possibly identifying) as trans.

The difference is removing the middle ground. One or the other, but not both. I choose female because that's what I am.

I wonder sometimes, do those who seek to become stealth, are they trying to run away from being trans? Perhaps less than total acceptance? Perhaps insecurity?

Just the opposite actually. Complete acceptance with no middle ground. No question of is she male or female. Just female. Stealth to be complete. The end, transition over.

Why go stealth when you have SRS? Why such an arbitrary point? Because your all done, that there is no difference than any other woman? Not making any judgement here, just asking since that is a very common rationale.

No so arbitrary. That is the day I will be complete. the day I will finish the journey. My body will match my mind 100%. That is the day I stop thinking trans and thinking only like a cis-gendered female. I will finally have crossed the void of emptiness and will be complete. I can close the book. I can sit back and let the journey sink in as a memory.

Autumn

[Carolyn Marie]

Autumn, as I see it, there are variations on the theme of being stealth, and no such thing as being totally "out" or totally "stealth." If you are planning to stick with LP and with being a Mod here, then in my view, it isn't totally "stealth." You're maintaining a connection to the Community, quite a visible one, as a matter of fact.

As I pointed out in my timeline thread earlier today, no two transitions, and no two timelines, are ever the same. Just like gender is a continuum, a spectrum, so too is the notion of being complete or not, of stealth or its opposite.

To me, the important thing is not what you do, or whether you stamp TS on your forehead, or become an activist, or get married to your man and have kids and live in a suburban cul de sac. The important thing is whether you are happy and content with your life. No one should judge you for your decisions, because they are yours, and they are unique to you. This is one question that has no right or wrong answer.

Live long, and prosper.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[JJ]

For me I am a transman as well as a man and because of that there are things that no cis person can seem to completely understand. I wish I had an opportunity to spend time with people who have shared my struggles and can understand what I mean without long explanations. I can't imagine that would be less so because someone was post-op. Sure I just want to live my life but I will never go stealth. Wouldn't even if I were younger because being trans is who I am and I won't hide it.

For me there is an element of shame in going completely stealth. I wouldn't tell everyone-I won't even tell most people anymore than I share any other intimate medical information with them. But I won't hide it either anymore than I hide anything else. Because I have lived with secrets too long. I want to live free now.

Also I will have things from my old conditioning and socialization that will persist. They may not be noticeable to casual acquaintances or the people I interact with in stores etc but they will be apparent to friends I'm sure. I'm not about to stress over every word and deed for the rest of my life-did that already too-and I am not going to lie to cover up either.

But that is how it is for me and each person has to decide for themselves/

One last thing. Those trans people are an important part of your support system and have helped get you to this point. It seems wrong to turn your back on that community outside a few friends when you become post op. Isn't that a form of discrimination too?

Just how it strikes me and not meant as a personal criticism.

Hugs

Johnny

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Autumn:

Many great ideas here. This thread rocks. Thanks for a great read.

Gotta agree with Carolyn Marie. It all comes down to your satisfaction with your life. And, yes, it's your call all the way as to what you want to do and how you want to live. Actually, I believe you pass beautifully and could blend right in with gg-women if you've got "the voice thing" down. You're blessed with great genetics and great looks!

Just my far-out opinion:

There is no stealth of any kind for anybody in any fashion ... in today's information-based society. They (The Powers That Be) know more about every single one of us than you can possibly imagine. Doubt it? Think again. They do. THERE IS NO STEALTH IN THE REALM OF OFFICIALDOME.

However, you CAN "pull off stealth" in everyday life among everyday people. Yes, THAT you can so do. Again, it's your call.

Due to delay after delay after delay and seemingly-never-ending mitigating circumstances, personally, I'm still in the netherworld. However, you know me. Do I give a good one? Ha! What do YOU think? Personally, I'm out there in whatever mode, and the whole world can go jump. Again, this way is NOT for everybody. Indeed, it is ill advised.

If stealth works for YOU, then that's what YOU should do!

Peace & Rock Lacey Lynne

[Guest Leah1026]

My roomie has been living the trans life...

I wouldn't know what the "trans life" is. I'm just living life. Some people know my medical history, most don't, and I frankly don't care. I'm not going to "trans-proof" my apartment or stop helping others online just because I'm paranolid about others finding out. If they can't handle it they aren't worth knowing anyway.

I don't compromise my identity for anyone.

This isn't an attack on you or your decision, you asked for opinions.

[Guest Svenna]

Autumn,

Do whatever works for you and let your heart and soul be your guide.

I will always think of you as a friend with or without ever hearing from you again. My acceptance of you is unconditional. If you disappear, I will only think good thoughts and wish you well, where ever your journey takes you..

Best of luck and life to you, girl. You deserve the peace you are seeking...

Love, Svenna

[Guest Svenna]

I personally feel of stealth is one of those things that, while interesting, is a reflection of some ideal image that may have little to do with reality. To me the word suggests hiding. Why hide? Shame?

That may be how you see it, but there many out there that felt they were a female since a few years old, they transition and just want to live as the woman that they are. It's not hiding and it's not shame.....

I see no shame in being stealth.....if that is how one wants to live their lives....

You say that ..."to me the word suggest hiding...".....well to many it doesn't...it's how they want to live their lives and to marginalize them because they don't want to be associated with being Trans or the community is doing them a disservice...

I think it very unfair to suggest that it is "Shameful..."

Seems to me that there is a big difference between living as a woman or man without advertizing (nor hiding) being trans, and living stealth. In turn there is a big difference between those two and living openly (and possibly identifying) as trans.

Sure there is a difference in those....but, one is not better than another....

There is no right or wrong way to live.....

It's not our place to judge what way to live is right or wrong or that stealth is shameful or hiding......

In another post you talked about everyone saying that someone de-transitioning was being judgmental of them........

So is suggesting someone living "Stealth" is shameful or hiding.

We all deal with life in different ways....Someone else's way may not be for us....

I wonder sometimes, do those who seek to become stealth, are they trying to run away from being trans? Perhaps less than total acceptance? Perhaps insecurity?

So what? It's the way that they deal with it. We all deal with it differently. I don't feel it's fair to stigmatize those that take a different path...

It's your opinion that that they may be running away from being Trans....again, that's their call how they want to handle it...

Why go stealth when you have SRS? Why such an arbitrary point?

Why not!???It's HER decision. There isn't a playbook for all of this...

Why question what she wants to do any more than that girl that de-transitioned?

In each case, it's their call.....

Because your all done, that there is no difference than any other woman? Not making any judgement here, just asking since that is a very common rationale.

Again....it's her call and she need not explain herself to anyone.....

Donna Jean

Donna,

You are a-ok in my book. Well said..

Love and gratitude, Svenna

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I think it's probably easier socializing with the trans community because you know it's going to be an accepting environment., and besides, we all just want to be accepted for who we are, right? I've known girls who have relied heavily on transgender support groups but once they got their SRS, they just turned their back and gave the community the cold shoulder. What about all those years of support that we gave you? What about all those times you asked for advice on what to do or what to wear or where to go? Nothing. They're a 'complete woman' now and they can no longer be associated with the transgender community. Besides, what if someone were to find out?!?!

In my opinion, it's just plain rude.

Now, with that in mind, I think it's a good idea to socialize yourself with the cis-gendered crowd but also keeping some ties to the transgender community, even if it's just going to a support site once in awhile or checking in with the local support group you once attended to talk about how life has been since going full-time.

[Guest Ann Onymous]

I think it's probably easier socializing with the trans community because you know it's going to be an accepting environment., and besides, we all just want to be accepted for who we are, right? I've known girls who have relied heavily on transgender support groups but once they got their SRS, they just turned their back and gave the community the cold shoulder. What about all those years of support that we gave you? What about all those times you asked for advice on what to do or what to wear or where to go? Nothing. They're a 'complete woman' now and they can no longer be associated with the transgender community. Besides, what if someone were to find out?!?!

In my opinion, it's just plain rude.

lost in the shuffle is that SRS *IS* a life-altering experience. For some persons, that becomes the first real opportunity to realize that there ARE significant differences between having had a transsexual medical condition as contrasted to the broader 'transgender umbrella' and the efforts that are essentially destroying the gender binary constructs. It is something that, quite frankly, only someone who has gone through the surgery can truly understand.

[Sally]

I have a very good friend who has gone stealth - I contacted her from a link on Dr Bowers site - she has long since slipped off of the site because her surgery was over 7 years ago and Marcy likes her testimonials to be from more recent patients -she became a close friend and mentor before I came to Laura's.

She had been a member of a trans support group in her hometown and for three years after her surgery she continued with the group, helping others as she did for me - the group slowly dissolved as other members achieved their goals and simply left.

She was transferred for her job and decided to just be herself and not mention anything about being trans - she became stealth and does not spend any time with the trans community as such - she still talks to her little sis (me) and has been a big help but I do feel that she did pay back the community for their support and offered more than she had taken - she is retired now and enjoying her life.

I may not ever decide to try stealth or be able to pull it off if I do but I respect the choice of each individual to do what they feel is best for them - I am very happy for my mentor - she is truly a wonderful lady.

Do what you need to do - we transitioned because we felt that we needed to in order to live a happy life - if stealth is the path to your happiness - take it, it is not my place or that of anyone else to stand in your way.

Love ya,

Sally

[Drea]

I think it's probably easier socializing with the trans community because you know it's going to be an accepting environment., and besides, we all just want to be accepted for who we are, right? I've known girls who have relied heavily on transgender support groups but once they got their SRS, they just turned their back and gave the community the cold shoulder. What about all those years of support that we gave you? What about all those times you asked for advice on what to do or what to wear or where to go? Nothing. They're a 'complete woman' now and they can no longer be associated with the transgender community. Besides, what if someone were to find out?!?!

In my opinion, it's just plain rude.

lost in the shuffle is that SRS *IS* a life-altering experience. For some persons, that becomes the first real opportunity to realize that there ARE significant differences between having had a transsexual medical condition as contrasted to the broader 'transgender umbrella' and the efforts that are essentially destroying the gender binary constructs. It is something that, quite frankly, only someone who has gone through the surgery can truly understand.

I will comment to Lizzy and say, largely those in the community don't want to hear what someone who has had SRS has to say other than to hear that post-op sex is great and how great it is to have had SRS. To actually comment on the broader issues meets a great deal of defensiveness.

Also, those who do have SRS don't have much in common with most in the community and probably never had much in common. As such, what advice did they get from the community during their transition that was both relevent and useful? So what is there to pay back? In any case, most don't isolate themselves entirely, they just get a whole lot more particular about who they choose to support and stick to others they find similar to themselves. That is very different than all those who claim to be just like them.

As Ann references the those who have SRS often don't relate to the broader transgender umbrella and anti binary folks.

It would be interesting however, if all the folks who had SRS over the past 20 years stuck around and offered their perspectives and advice, the visible community would be...um...very different...

[Guest Maria_B]

I realise you have to do this at as a couple, just make sure its what -you- really want, and not just her.

You've stated its what you want, and I'll take your word for it.

Wishing you the best, but hoping you stay around, even just for a little longer after surgery. Give us an update on ''Normal'' life.

[~Nova~]

As I stated, I don't plan on disappearing, I mentioned my debt and how it needs to be repaid. I , however a not the person you want a s a spokeswoman. I am rude, mostly obnoxious and generally considered a donkey. I won't deny or hide those attributes.Maybe all the years of fighting has made me that way, maybe I'm just wired that way, I don't know.

I will stay on Laura's until I feel that my usefulness has runs its course. I will still go to the occasional group meeting and try to help the lost soul. What I won't do is group 4 times a month, associate solely with the trans community for comfort and acceptance and hide from the general population of humanity. I can lend a hand without be immersed in it.

My goal is to be a woman, not a transsexual. I have to pass through the intermediate points and I will never be a"female", but I will live as if I am.

Autumn

[Paula ult]

Going stealth is entirely up to you, in certain ways i am stealth. to those that do not know me or my past i am just another woman living her daily life, those that know about my past, will always know, to be 100% stealth these days is close to impossible with all the computer databases.

Many things changed for me the moment i woke up and knew i survived the surgery, there was a calmness that came over me knowing that i was complete, i do not need much support these days, and what i do need from time to time i get from my other groups that have many women that have been post-op for many years.

Though it would be nice to have post-ops that have transitioned in the last 20 years stay, i understand why they leave, getting on with life as a woman, a woman that had a medical condition that was cured by surgery, i agree with Ann and Drea.

[Guest Madison_Always]

I completely understand where you are coming from Autumn. I want to be a woman, not a transsexual.