Why Do You Identify Yourself As Androgyne (or Something Else Instead Of Androgyne)?

[Guest Itzika]

Okay, so I'm still seriously gender-confused, and part of my confusion is that I'm still not entirely sure what led people to identify themselves as Androgyne. So that's my question. Basically, what experience made you believe you were androgyne? Is androgyny to you a gender incongruous with your body, or is it a gender that is congruous with your body but that would also be congruous with the other? What tendencies helped you come to this understanding of your gender identity?

And on the flip side, if you identify as ts, cd, tg, cisgendered (maybe with tendencies opposed to the "norms" of your gender), etc. instead of androgyne, why? What is the difference in your perception of yourself and your gender between your current self-identification and androgyny?

Thanks!

~Rey

[Guest Kelly Ann]

I rambled all over Laura's before I even looked at the Forums...and the description(s) of Androgyne completely summed up things for me very nicely. I identify pretty equally I 'think'...the tests I've taken tend to lean more towards the feminine which is probably some inner over-compensation, LOL when I was a bit younger it leaned the opposite direction and before that swayed the other way...give it another 10-15 years and, well who knows? Through the years I've just sort of allowed myself to express each facet as much or little as it needs at any given time. So I've managed to be comfortable with myself and with all I've been fortunate to experience...it probably opened doors and opportunities that might have remained closed otherwise. I really don't think I'd feel complete without both sides or the ability to express them. Hope that helps...Kelly Ann

[Guest Dr.Metropolis]

One important thing I've learned in this journey is this:

Gender is a socio-cultural construct.

Sex is a genetic and physical reality.

Gender identity issues change in different cultural settings. While this is hard to see when you are raised and live in one culture's view on gender, other cultures view gender differently. In the United States, men who openly express emotion tend to be seen as "weak" and it would not be something very "masculine" of them, while in other cultures men are very open with their emotions and that is the cultural norm.

I'm still unsure as to the extent of my gender-deviance, but I do identify much more with being an Androgyne than a transsexual. I think for me, being an androgyne is part of defying cultural stereotypes and learning to enjoy what I naturally enjoy. If I enjoy wearing a bra, high heels, and a dress, is there an biological disconnect there, or is that unnatural because of what society has deemed "normal"? What if there were no stereotypes of gender behavior? What would our world look like then? I think we all would be classified androgynous, and free to express ourselves as we pleased.

Sadly, I don't see this type of world coming into view soon, if ever. Gender constructs are more firmly cemented in our minds than even racial and class constructs. If cisgender women still suffer from sexism, how much harder will it be for society to accept people of both sexes acting in transgender ways.

On the other end of the spectrum, I have considered the option of HRT. I know that I would not and do not want SRS, but HRT could give me female secondary sex characteristics, but I could keep the male primary sex characteristics. This option has made the most sense to me, because it makes my mind and body congruent. If I am straddling the gender-line, I suppose it would make sense to also straddle the sex-line.

Hope this helps, and I would be glad to clarify any foggy issues,

-Dr M

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Donno

I guess I always thought of myself as a girl who was destinied to grow up in a male body - yes - from day one I felt that way..

That kinda defined me as transsexual - inability to reconcile my body with my mind and soul.

Androgyne - yes I could do that. But I would rather be as complete a woman in body as possible - that attitude is not 'zactly stradling a fence, I guess.

HRT without SRS - might go there... donno... probably not.

[Guest Evan_J]

If I am straddling the gender-line, I suppose it would make sense to also straddle the sex-line.

THAT actually has made the most sense to me of anyone I ever heard tell me they wanted both sex parts. I could never understand a MtF doing it (at least by choice, not talking about if you can't afford it) and I certainly never understood a FtM wanting to have each sexes characteristics on a physical level BUT if you can tell me your GENDER is both then I can buy it.

[Guest Irielle]

I was born a genetic male but remember at an early age thinking I was supposed to be a girl and wondering why was I a boy? When I got a bit older I think my hormones kind of took over and I felt more like a boy but never completely. I came out as gay because that was the only thing thing that seemed to make much sense to me as who I was but it never felt exactly right. I always identified with both male and female parts of myself and they were always kind of mixed in together. It's like I had parts of me that were a boy and parts of me that were a girl and then this huge part of me that was in the middle of all that, with some of both and that's kind of where I lived.

I have always enjoyed doing both 'boy" and "girl" things and having the feelings and emotions of both and it's very easy for me to move back and forth between them. But it's not like a line with 'boy' at one end and 'girl' at the other end. It's like this huge cloud with 'boy' and 'girl' all mixed together and I kind of float around in there. The cloud is probably 70 or 75% girl and 25 or 30% boy. Sometimes I feel almost all boy and sometimes I feel almost all girl but usually I have both going on at the same time.

For the most part my gender is congruous with my body, but there are times when I would give anything to have a female body. I don't plan on ever having SRS because I am comfortable with my body and I am afraid that SRS would be too drastic for me as well as being irreversible. I have given serious consideration to having breast implants, though. I don't think I'd want HRT but I am certainly open to it, as long as they wouldn't make me impotent. I have just enough boy in me that I don't think I want to change my physical self. If I had been born a genetic female I would also be very happy with that, probably happier than I am being a male because gender-wise I am more female. If I had a wish it would be to have a magic wand that I could wave and it would let me change my sex back and forth between male and female, depending upon how I felt at the time. I suspect that if I had such a magic wand that at some point I would make myself female and then throw the wand away but I'm not sure.

I wear clothes of both genders, at the same time when possible. I'm not comfortable wearing all boy clothes but sometimes I have to because of social situations (like going to the gym). I am very comfortable wearing all female clothes and always wear them at home. Maybe I would also be considered a transexual but I'm not sure. I don't wear girl clothes to dress up; I wear them because when I do wear them I feel normal.

I'm attracted to people of both sexes and any sexual or gender orientation and have had relationships with both genetic males and genetic females. Technically I suppose that makes me bisexual but that term just doesn't feel quite right. Multisexual might be a better term for me. I feel like there are several people inside of me - a straight male, a gay male, a straight female and a gay female as well as an androgyne and probably others that I haven't thought of. Somehow they are kind of separate but still integrated into a larger personality. I guess that this larger personality is that 'cloud' I was talking about earlier.

I'm sorry, this has gotten kind of long-winded but writing it has helped me clarify some things for myself. I'm very introverted and am constantly wondering about who I am and what new things am I going to learn about myself. There always seems to be something new. I hope your journey will be as fascinating and wonderful as mine has been, dispite the ups and downs it will entail. Above all, be happy!

[Guest Gallium 67]

Always felt like I was a male born in a girls body (and still do and it still feels so wrong....) but as I grew up I grew a little fond of some of the fem features I have. (SOME, not ALL. I actually detest most of what I am.) I normally act like a guy, sometimes a gay guy, plus I sometimes have those occassional 'girly' moments. It's weird. :/

Like just the other night I was watching Project Runway because nothing else was on, I found myself mimicking the models (in a very exaggerated way) as they walked down the runway. lol. >.>

[Guest androgynous]

Interesting to see some always felt the other gender.

To me, I sometimes felt neither but more overwhelmingly both gender most of the time. Since I found out about Androgyny I understood why. I must confess I had difficulties in switching back and forth in the mindset of a gender constantly, it also made a career choice so difficult because I like stereotyped feminine roles as well as male roles interesting, which led to utter confusion.

[Guest mia 1]

Rey we are all so growing and so wondering what we are. Yesterday i filled out some insurance forms and in the sex box for male I checked the box and for female I checked that box. So that sums up my thoughts, I am both, sometimes more one than the other, and glad to have the gift. Enjoy the beauty of your life, and celbrate the gift. Keep progressing along this gifted journey and keep wondering and wandering,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,HNY mia.

[Guest androgynous]

Rey we are all so growing and so wondering what we are. Yesterday i filled out some insurance forms and in the sex box for male I checked the box and for female I checked that box. So that sums up my thoughts, I am both, sometimes more one than the other, and glad to have the gift. Enjoy the beauty of your life, and celbrate the gift. Keep progressing along this gifted journey and keep wondering and wandering,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,HNY mia.

Mia, do you think it is feasible to go to institutions and say that your both genders, or neither? Is it possible at all to be registered as both genders? I more and more see the problem of this, also why do they even want to know "the sex"? what difference does that makes? for me it's a gender issue, which I want to express through both of the sexes.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I see the younger generation as a bit more tolerant toward the gender dysphoric. They are more tolerant with me, anyway - and it isn't a hard fast rule.

Perhaps I am projecting somthing as wishful thinking, but I saw desegegation become more the norm and a valuable segment of humanity added into the United States as equal citizens - and I will conceed that process is still not perfect, but compared to my expeiences in 1960, it is a real turn around.

Race checkboxes are rarely indicated on offical documents anymore. When they do show up it is 'optional' and is used for research purposes, rather than classificaton (we hope so anyway).

Perhaps in the near future indication of 'sex' on forms will be optional.

When that happens there will probably more people thinking of themselves as androgyne, as they won't be officially classified otherwise.

Just a thought.

[Guest Donna Jean]

In December I had to go to the DMV and fill out a couple of forms..

One had the word "Sex" and a blank space for you to write in..

I wrote "No Thanks"

The girl looked at me funny, but,let it go....

Maybe I should of wrote "Gender Gifted" !!!

Donna Jean

[Guest Itzika]

In December I had to go to the DMV and fill out a couple of forms..

One had the word "Sex" and a blank space for you to write in..

I wrote "No Thanks"

The girl looked at me funny, but,let it go....

Maybe I should of wrote "Gender Gifted" !!!

Donna Jean

I'd hug you if I could. Since I can't... *internet hug*

My TS friend was applying to college, or visiting (I forget). She put down her legal name, but when it came time to check the box marked "sex" (or "gender"; I forget that too, lol), she left it blank. Just couldn't do it. Besides, she said, if they really can't figure it out from the name, they have problems.

I marked "Female" because they mean sex and I'm Androgyne, not TS (and it's online so you can't mark both ), but I did put my chosen name as "preferred name/nickname" on one or two applications.

~Rey

[Guest androgynous]

I'd hug you if I could. Since I can't... *internet hug*

My TS friend was applying to college, or visiting (I forget). She put down her legal name, but when it came time to check the box marked "sex" (or "gender"; I forget that too, lol), she left it blank. Just couldn't do it. Besides, she said, if they really can't figure it out from the name, they have problems.

I marked "Female" because they mean sex and I'm Androgyne, not TS (and it's online so you can't mark both ), but I did put my chosen name as "preferred name/nickname" on one or two applications.

~Rey

Clever. I thought about that as well, since they ask the sex of course.

[Guest adamblue]

Okay, so I'm still seriously gender-confused, and part of my confusion is that I'm still not entirely sure what led people to identify themselves as Androgyne. So that's my question. Basically, what experience made you believe you were androgyne? Is androgyny to you a gender incongruous with your body, or is it a gender that is congruous with your body but that would also be congruous with the other? What tendencies helped you come to this understanding of your gender identity?

And on the flip side, if you identify as ts, cd, tg, cisgendered (maybe with tendencies opposed to the "norms" of your gender), etc. instead of androgyne, why? What is the difference in your perception of yourself and your gender between your current self-identification and androgyny?

Thanks!

~Rey

I hear you!

It seems to be a path of perpetual discovery. I confess to being both thrilled and horrified at times.

From the time I knew enough to know anything, I was aware that I was different. And was blessed enough to be able to express both gender aspects from an early age.

Of course all that came to a grinding halt at puberty when I felt overwhelming pressure to choose. And I made a very grown up and sensible decision to go with the gender that matched my physique.

That choice was not without its costs, though. And my repressed side constantly came out in a multitude of ways.

The reason I "know" I am both is because I identify so strongly with the emotions, thoughts, way of thinking, mannerisms and even attractions of both genders. If I had my way, I would have a "switch" that allowed me to physically transform along with my feelings. As it stands, I try to keep my seatbelt securely fastened because it is one heck of an adventurous ride.

Thanks for an interesting question!

[Guest Ryles_D]

Okay, so I'm still seriously gender-confused, and part of my confusion is that I'm still not entirely sure what led people to identify themselves as Androgyne. So that's my question. Basically, what experience made you believe you were androgyne? Is androgyny to you a gender incongruous with your body, or is it a gender that is congruous with your body but that would also be congruous with the other? What tendencies helped you come to this understanding of your gender identity?

I just am. I'm neutrois, neither male nor female. And that's it- it's what fits. I tried androgyne, when I thought it was right, but it wasn't. As soon as I found out it meant male and female I knew it was wrong. I can't say what experience taught me- I just always knew. Sorry if that's not helpful.

[Guest CharlieRose]

Hmmm... If you asked me what I'd identify as, I'd definitely say FTM first. There's no way I could ever enjoy being called "she" ever, ever again. I'm not a girl, it's not a part of my gender identity. But I suppose that I might be considered a male gender-bender in certain contexts. I don't know if I'm attracted to the concept of others gender-bending, if I'm interested in doing it myself, or what. I'm still exploring. But I certainly think that people like David Bowie and Desire from Neil Gaiman's Sandman are the epitome of awesomeness.

It's a very fine line. I would only be comfortable doing it if I was definitely recognized as a guy in girl's clothing, I know that. I have drifted between thinking I'm slightly bi-gendered and thinking I'm nothing but male, but I think perhaps I might have a bit of crossdresser in me. And in a girl's body, too. Lol. That might have been why it took me so long. The year or so where I was in denial, I was still trying to make it work, I did actually like the way I looked. I had long, beautiful hair, I still have a sari that I loved... Maybe I'll try it on, see how I like wearing it now. I haven't worn any girl's clothes since I declared myself male. The things I wanted in being male... I did want physical and clothing things, like being able to take my shirt off at a swim party or wearing a tux at a formal event and it not being weird or lesbian, I wanted it to be expected, normal. But a lot of it was about roles, too. I wanted to be my sisters' brother. My parent's son.

It's not that I like being female sometimes, or I dislike aspects of being male. I like my hair now, short. I like seeing an actual guy in the mirror. It feels good. But picturing myself wearing some things that are definitely female... Some kinds of makeup... It's like the color purple. I used to hate it and avoid it at all costs, along with pink. But when I realized I was a guy I realized I actually liked it, so long as it was part of something that was otherwise definitely male, like I have a purple guy's jacket. The idea of experimenting with gender roles excites me, as long as my true gender is always recognized.... I think I'm going to try on that sari now.

Oh, and Evan, I think it might have something to do with some of my physical disparities with other FTMs. I sort of feel the same way about that. Like, it would be great if I had male genitals, just like it would be great if I was one of those really suave, totally manly guys, but that's not gonna happen. So.. now, as long as other people, especially any partners I have, know that I'm male and treat me as such, I'm not sure that "using what I have" would bother me so much. Pregnancy and stuff, too. As long as I'm the baby's dad, I can be his dad with my uterus. I have one, why not use it? (The one exception to this: Breasts. I hate them hate them hate them. They're leaving as soon as I have the cash.)

[Guest Eth]

While I identify as Male-to-Female, I'm not entirely male or female either. If I had the ability to shapeshift between the genders, I'd probably be female almost all of the time, and male in the few moments where I think it fits. I like to be a completely feminine personality most of the time, but I find myself stuck in a few moments where I'm all dressed up, looking and acting like a girl, and then I need to say or do something that's typically masculine. Like, when I get in any sort of fight, I fight like a boy. And I'm not saying that guys are good fighters and girls slap or whatever- both can be equally good fighters; there's just something different about the way they do it that I haven't quite figured out. I feel like I'm fighting like a boy would no matter what. Maybe that's just because I associate agressiveness with male behavior subconsciously, or it could even be a funky effect of testosterone on my brain since I'm not on blockers or HRT yet. Whatever the case, it's weird.

Weirder still is that it's just when I'm physically fighting; anger and arguments are still dealt with in a mostly feminine way for me. I never demand that I'm right without going into huge detail about the facts, logic and reasoning that I have to deem myself correct, and I rarely speak over anyone unless I absolutely have to. I still feel female when I'm angry, until it elevates to the point where fists become involved. I also generally avoid physical fighting even if it doesn't disgust me. Fighting actually intrigues me, but the feeling I get of being male during fighting, does not.

When I'm going through almost any other emotion, I feel feminine. When I'm happy, or sad/depressed, or excited, or anxious, I'm definitely feminine. When I'm proud or surprised, I feel mostly feminine but partly masculine. If I'm proud, it depends on the moment. Like if I'm proud for someone else, like a close friend or my bf, it's a predominantly feminine feeling. If I'm proud over something I've done, it's somewhat of a masculine feeling almost. But that's also not always the case. I can sometimes be proud about my own work and be especially cheery about it like most girls would be; but that kind of also melts "pride" and "glee" together... which could be why. Surprise is just plain odd. It's almost like I'm surprised when I want to be surprised. Like a giant centipede runs across the wall near me *shudders at the thought* and I might let out a shriek or jump up on my chair and sit with my legs crossed because I'm scared the bug is on the floor or something now. Pretty girly.. if I do say so myself. But at other times, I think if the situation called for it, I could be sturdy and serious and masculine and almost nothing would shock or surprise me. A dead body could fall off the roof of the building I'm standing next to, and I don't think I'd bat an eye at it. That may be a masculine side of me, or it could actually be something I've picked up from experience. In my life, a lot of big, emotionally nerve wracking things have happened suddenly and without warning, so I may have become numb to such surprises regardless of gender identity.

Most of me honestly believes that all emotions, feelings, thoughts, wants, needs and everything else are customized for the user. There isn't really a "masculine" or "feminine" individual entirely, but a mix of the two and possibly many other categories and sub-categories. The question is, would we be better off without titling any of them and just being who we are, or would it be more beneficial to us to map out all of them in order to get a thorough understanding of WHY we are who we are. Either way, I think the case with gender identity and such is that some people have an abundance of one type of attributes that are most often found in females, and others are born with another set of attributes that are most commonly found in males. Everyone has a mixture of them to some degree, but I imagine that most androgynes act and prefer to be androgynous because they have percentages of the two that are much closer to being 50/50 than that of the people who identify as masculine or feminine. It's unfortunate that most of the world can't see this and has to label us as masculine or feminine solely on our anatomical sex, but it also kind of makes sense. I mean, I'm a MtF so I know first hand the deep desires and need to be able to not only act like yourself, but to look like what you think you should look like. I want to have curves, I want to have breasts, I want to have a smoother complexion and I don't like facial or body hair. While we don't know exactly what drives us to have these needs and desires, it makes some sense that those who were born "normal" (cisgendered and heterosexual, though sexuality may not have much to do with it) haven't even thought about or explored the possibility of someone not wanting a specific appearance that is congruent with their gender identity. It's just natural to them, and they don't even need to break it down to "understand" it. This can make things very confusing to someone who is somewhere in between because if they're stuck as one or the other, and can't switch back and forth, they'll always be seen as just masculine or feminine. Whereas if they try to blend masculine and feminine traits in their appearance and be androgynous, most people look at that and go "so which are you?" or "you're neither" or worse, "you're confused", as opposed to understanding the presence of both identities in the form of one complete personality. It gets even more confusing when you consider the many androgynes who are 30/70, 75/25, 60/40, or anything else that isn't a perfect 50/50. How are they meant to have an appearance that shows the 30% of them that's feminine as well as the 70% of them that's masculine, without appearing 50/50?

Appearances are such complex things... They're not just for displaying who you are so that you can be perceived by others as such, but they're also for your own self-perception. I mean, there's a lot of transsexuals out there who get SRS and not just for sex; they want it to feel "right" or "complete". How often do you think they'd be putting their genitalia on display in a way that would affect how other people perceive their gender identity? And yet they have this need regardless of that. I want to look feminine and female, and sound female, but I won't likely get SRS. It's not that I don't want SRS or that I'm really "attached" to my male genitalia, it's just that neither are important to me. A lot of the times my male genitals "bother" me, but it's the kind of bother like a nat flying around a soda nearby. It's there and you're just slightly twitchy, but it's not really severely discomforting or anything. If I'd of been born with female genitalia, then it may appeal to me more than my current male genitals, but I wasn't born that way. It be nice to have female genitals but it's not something I'm going to go out of my way for. The cost and effectiveness of SRS just aren't good enough for me to feel the need to do it. If it was a couple hundred bucks (yes, tons lower than the.. what is it, 100K? it is now) and if I was guaranteed not to lose orgasm, THEN maybe I'd do it. But I don't think having male genitals is as much of an inconvienance to me as the financial situation I'd be putting myself in would be.

So how does THAT tie into gender identity and expression? Who knows. It's such a complex thing that we might not understand it for a hundred more years, if we even understand it then.

[Guest DanM]

I identify as male 100% EVEN IF MY BODY DOESN'T. YET, key word. Since I am sensitive to a point it leans a bit to the androgyne side I guess. But in all other aspects I am a guy. So you figure it out LOL.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Since I am sensitive to a point it leans a bit to the androgyne side I guess.

I don't think having male or female traits affects your gender one bit. A guy can be sensitive, like pink and dancing and singing and crocheting and still identify 100% as male A girl can work as a mechanic, hate dresses, have a masculine nickname,a nd still identify as 100% girl. A non-binary can very much fit into the roles of one or the other, quite comfortably, and still be completely in their non-binary identity and wantt o be treated as such.

[Guest Cody_T]

I ID as a guy because I am a guy, my hobbies and characteristics be damned. I got really hung up on them for a while, basically when I was trying to figure it out, and then I got over it. It's at the point where you stop caring about those things and just do your best to be honest with yourself about your needs, desires, motives, whatever they may be, that you can just instinctively trust and accept who you are, what gender you are. The less cluttered your mind is with all the secondary crap, the easier it is. And I'm not saying that I don't still rejoice when I realize something I've been doing all my life is considered "masculine" or cringe to find out it's "feminine", but I'm not about to let it dictate what I do and don't do.

[Guest Mesingw]

I Identify as androgyne because although I do like things that are associated with my birth gender (male) from a very young age i was also interested in certain girl things (as I am to this very day). As for my body, im happy in it for the most part (there are a few changes i would like to make but its nothing that would require a trip to a doctor).

[Guest ericc]

I identify as Trigendered because before I was both Androgyne and Bigendered. Even though I am biologicly male, I noticed that my body is quite Androgynous. I have hips, a female behind and Gynecomastia. Plus my chest isn't really hairy. So I guess that I'm Androgynous both mentally and psysicly.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

In December I had to go to the DMV and fill out a couple of forms..

One had the word "Sex" and a blank space for you to write in..

I wrote "No Thanks"

The girl looked at me funny, but,let it go....

Maybe I should of wrote "Gender Gifted" !!!

Donna Jean

My father was a Microbiologist/Virologist and ran the regional virus lab in Ottawa Canada, he used to tell the story of a lab req that came in; on it was a line which read Sex_________ as in sex of patient. In the blank the nurse or who ever filled it out had written other... now which other sex was the patient. Apparently the lab staff all had a good laugh about it and did the requested tests anyway.

[Guest Thorndrop]

Okay, so I'm still seriously gender-confused, and part of my confusion is that I'm still not entirely sure what led people to identify themselves as Androgyne. So that's my question. Basically, what experience made you believe you were androgyne? Is androgyny to you a gender incongruous with your body, or is it a gender that is congruous with your body but that would also be congruous with the other? What tendencies helped you come to this understanding of your gender identity?

And on the flip side, if you identify as ts, cd, tg, cisgendered (maybe with tendencies opposed to the "norms" of your gender), etc. instead of androgyne, why? What is the difference in your perception of yourself and your gender between your current self-identification and androgyny?

Thanks!

~Rey

I never have been sure and still aren't completely sure of myself. I identify as 'somewhere between androgynous and masculine' as gender to me is more like a sliding scale, not 'male', 'female' or 'androgynous'. I never felt completely like either gender and don't feel I'd be 100% happy in either a male or female body. For me, I'd love to get top surgery, but nothing more. Then I'd be as happy with my body as I think it's possible for me to be.