Example of cultural blinders in the LDS church.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

The following is an oath taken by the Danites. (A group that was a vigilante group for the church leadership of the time back in 1838)

"In the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, I do covenant and agree to support the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in all things, RIGHT OR WRONG; I will faithfully guard them and report to them the acts of all men, as far as in my power lies; I will assist in executing all the decrees of the first president, patriarch or president of the twelve; and that I will cause all who speak evil of the presidency, or heads of the church, to die the death of dissenters or apostates, unless they speedily confess and repent, for pestilence, persecution and death shall folUnv the enemies of Zion. I will be a swift herald of salvation and messenger of peace to the saints, and I will never make known the secret purposes of this society, called the Destroying Angel, my life being the forfeiture in a fire of burning tar and brimstone. So help me God, and keep me steadfast."

This is never spoken of in the church. Take note of the "Right or Wrong" remark. It was blind allegiance. In many ways that same culture persists even to today. The point is not to tear down the church but to shed light on a simple truth that would rather be ignored. The leadership even today demands that members follow the church with out question.

Even the temple has something that echoes this. It is called the law of consecration that all who go to the temple for endowments take.

"The Law of Consecration: You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

Just something to think about as you contemplate your journey and before you step foot in the temple knowing you are transgendered.

(Note: this is not to say that all general membership is like this however if they start questioning, the leadership will place pressure on that person to conform and if that does not happen and the questioning is trouble some for the leadership they will hasten that persons exit from the church.)

[Guest apostate79]

Wrong! The Mormon church is one of the hardest religions to get kicked out of. I can say with absolute certainty that the majority of ex-mormons (myself included) left the church voluntarily. Sure, there is pressure to conform, and those who are inactive or don't practice are excluded from important rituals and denied entry into a Temple, (and I even figured out how to work my way around that by lying to my bishop!) but I know for a fact that the church is constantly struggling with retaining people (especially 2nd generation members, the children of converts), and spends a great deal of resources in maintaining contact with the less active members, and encouraging them to stay in the church.

[JenniferB]

When I stopped attending, I received a call from a counselor of the bishop, who gave me the guilt trip treatment, trying to get me to attend again. Since I wasn't going to capitulate, he ended the conversation warning me about the telestial kingdom. He treated me like he was offended that I didn't return. And I still saw the home teachers before that episode.

Jenny

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Wrong! The Mormon church is one of the hardest religions to get kicked out of. I can say with absolute certainty that the majority of ex-mormons (myself included) left the church voluntarily. Sure, there is pressure to conform, and those who are inactive or don't practice are excluded from important rituals and denied entry into a Temple, (and I even figured out how to work my way around that by lying to my bishop!) but I know for a fact that the church is constantly struggling with retaining people (especially 2nd generation members, the children of converts), and spends a great deal of resources in maintaining contact with the less active members, and encouraging them to stay in the church.

If you walk in and apostatize and question the leadership (especially the first presidency) you will get kicked out. They will arrange a "court of love" and if you are still defiant you will go be bye bye. I spent 30 plus years in the Mormon church. I know what will happen.

When I stopped attending, I received a call from a counselor of the bishop, who gave me the guilt trip treatment, trying to get me to attend again. Since I wasn't going to capitulate, he ended the conversation warning me about the telestial kingdom. He treated me like he was offended that I didn't return. And I still saw the home teachers before that episode. Jenny

The funny thing about the counselors warning about the Telestial kingdom is that according to the Mormon faith the telestial kingdom is far better than this world we live in now.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Forgive me, but I see this thread as talking about control.

I am not a Mormon and I know that there is much more to faith than a single thread.

Somehow, I cannot reconcile the notion of making people feel coerced or guilty with God.

Many religions make people feel this way, but that does not make it right.

Makes me wonder and concerned for all of you.

Love.

Brenda

[Cyndee]

When I stopped attending, I received a call from a counselor of the bishop, who gave me the guilt trip treatment, trying to get me to attend again. Since I wasn't going to capitulate, he ended the conversation warning me about the telestial kingdom. He treated me like he was offended that I didn't return. And I still saw the home teachers before that episode.

Jenny

Yeah, Jenny your story sounds all too familar, guilt within that organization seems to be their weapon of choice, it's terrible. It all falls into a pattern of mind control and manipulation.

Hugs

Cynthia -

[Cyndee]

The funny thing about the counselors warning about the Telestial kingdom is that according to the Mormon faith the telestial kingdom is far better than this world we live in now.

My brother in law and sister were denied access to the temple until they paid up their tithings. Essentially this sent the message you needed buy your way into the Celestial kingdom.

[Guest Xeriis]

I have had many people, missionaries and the bishop (singles ward) stop by my place many times trying to get me to return. Many have the right intentions, but simply did not know the best way to try an approach this. Some have tried to guilt trip me into going back and I immediately chewed them out and made sure they knew why I was unappreciative of such tactics. Since then most simply come by to say hello, they warn me of upcoming things within the ward or just ask if they can help in any way. I have felt a bit more loved and a lot less anxious about this all. While I never actually go to any of the things I'm invited to, it is nice to have people simply stop by to see how you're doing and they get kicked out if they guilt trip me. If I do not feel good at any point, I make sure they know and they often have just become supportive and not demanding. They've asked me to do things (come to church, read, etc) and I've just outright said no, but they still keep coming lol.

I have asked the church leadership quite high up (general authorities but not apostles, former general authorities, mission presidents, etc.) many, many questions and they were kind in answering. In addition to their answers I was advised to go study the topic on my own and pray about it and and find my own answers whatever they might be. I've never had one of the higher up leadership in the church 'smack me down' into my place. I have had a bishop try before without success. They are supposed to try and be understanding, offer possible solutions to your problem or just listen and be supportive. They aren't supposed to 'guilt' or 'push' you in one direction or another. I've often put myself in his situation and asked, what would I do to try and reach out to a member like myself? While I still didn't agree with maybe how things were done, I could understand more why they were.

And really, if any member really wants to go to the temple they can just lie to the bishop and most often be allowed to go. I wouldn't advise it though as it makes for a much more awkward and uncomfortable experience.

[Guest Xeriis]

Yeah, Jenny your story sounds all too familar, guilt within that organization seems to be their weapon of choice, it's terrible. It all falls into a pattern of mind control and manipulation.

Hugs

Cynthia -

Many people have little or no exposure to the LGBT and almost always go about it in the wrong way. We know how we want to be treated. I often think about it in the reverse and understand a little better why they've done what they have. If I was part of the active membership and asked to reach out to an inactive person, how would I go about doing it? If that person you were asked to reach out to was a known psychopath, how would you reach out to them? I'm simply taking the extreme (in their case) and making it more of an extreme for us. It might be a bad analogy, but I hope my point is understood.