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How good intentions often hurt depressed post-op


Drea

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My intent here it to convey information and generate thought and not condemn any individual actions. I truly believe none intend to hurt and I hope in expressing how this can happen unintentionally to help others understand in order to avoid it.

I should also point out that I can't speak for all who have had SRS. It is a compilation of understanding and experiences from many folks I know and I feel it fairly accurately represents what many in the situation feel.

It is typical when someone post SRS is depressed that people in the support community try to cheer them up saying things like.

"You have everything I want to have, you are my role model"

"You're my big sister, I look up to you"

"I wish I was in your position"

"you have no reason to be depressed, you have what so many of us want"

or the real kicker

"If I were post-op I would never be depressed"

So what's the problem? No one statement is bad in itself and is intended remind the person all they have achieved.

The problem is rooted in additional pressure it puts on the person who is post SRS as well as the way it adds focus into a part of their life which they are finding themselves at odds with.

There is a time when nearly everyone post SRS needs to confront certain realities. The reality that life doesn't revolve around "transition" for starters. And then there is the reality that they have done about as much as they can possibility do to deal with their dysphoria and recognize that there are still limits no matter how good surgery is. They might even still experience some level of dysphoria. The reality that their life has been so focused on this thing called "transition" and SRS (which often becomes a goal in itself.

So it is common that, typically 2 to 5 years post SRS, when the euphoria of it all has worn off, when pre-transition expectations have been tempered by realities, and these realities sink in, for the person to experience a period of questioning. This questioning revolves around finding a new purpose in life, growing beyond a trans person and recognizing that no matter what that achievement (transitioin, SRS) was in the trans world, it is in the past and means little in the bigger world.

This transition into finding new purpose beyond transition is easier for some than for others. Some go thru it pretty seamlessly. Others may get depressed to a greater or lesser degree. In some cases, particularly if pre-transition, pre-SRS expectations were unrealistic, it could result in serious questioning of their transitioning and or having SRS in the first place.

Some put this off by latching onto something new to go for in transition such as FFS (if they didn't have already). A few end up staying stay focused within the trans community, typically putting themselves up on a pedestal, frequently reminding others of their post-op status and trying to milk their "success" for all it is worth.

Most however end up having to go thru questioning period like this in a greater or lesser degree.

So this brings me back to why these kinds of well intentioned statements end up hurting the person who is post SRS dealing with these realities.

The first issue is that trying to make them feel better by reminding them of this "achievement" is not going to have much effect when the person may be questioning the wisdom of that choice or reflecting on its limits. It also is a pulling back into the trans community at a time they are trying to come to terms with the fact that outside the trans community it is pretty much a non-achievement.

The second issue is by telling this person one looks up to them, sees them as a role model, it can created a feeling of undue responsibility. That the person's choices is influencing and encouraging others to take actions in the direction that this person may be questioning. The person may also be recognizing that some of their own motivations that resulted in choices to transition and/or have SRS which weren't realized are some of the same reasons others are following the same path. It also can create a feeling of having let down those other folks by failing to being the role model they expect.

And finally it is the way that some of these sorts of statements end up being dismissive of the person's feelings. Just because they have had SRS they must be happy? Is that really all there should be to life? Transition and/or SRS?

I can see how some might respond positively to such statements, but I know there are others where it just makes them feel further down and what are they to do? Tell off the well intentioned folks declaring they don't understand? I've seen it happen. More often than not they just have to take it and say thank you.

I want to underscore this period of questioning does not equate to regret. That might be an element in it for some, but it is one of searching, a re-orienting.

Others may disagree with my observation, see no problems. All I ask is to consider how some statements like I illustrated directed at someone who is depressed after SRS may not have the desired effect.

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Guest DianeATL

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I know I have been guilty of saying these things without realizing how it could hurt but by you sharing like this, we will all have a better understanding and be better able to help each other.

There is no reason to expect that choosing SRS would be any different from any other major decision in your life. Cognitive dissonance, or buyers remorse, almost always comes up after a difficult or significant decision. Did I do the right thing? DId I make the right choice? It would be highly unusual in my opinion, if you did not have a period of questioning and second guessing. I can also understand how the pressure of attention and being a role model would really feel uncomfortable. You did this for you, not to be Joan of Arc and blaze a trail for others. That added pressure only serves to intensify the questioning because now if you screwed up you didn't just do it to yourself, you are bringing others down with you. I get it. And finally like so many other achievements in life, they seem grandiose when you are looking at them as a far away goal but when you finally get there, it can be underwhelming and lose some of its allure. There are many stories of people being depressed when they have accomplished something great because it wasn't all it was cracked up to be or the quest of their lifetime has been conquered and with it, they extinguished their guiding light that was leading them forward.

So let me try to put a different spin on the comments, I look up to you not because you had SRS but because you faced something very difficult in your life, made tough decisions, and had the will and determination to see it through despite the obstacles. You have not fixed everything and you will have many more battles ahead of you, but you have demonstrated that you can deal with them head on and overcome whatever life throws at you. We have weak moments, but you are a strong woman and in the end will triumph.

Everybody has the right to be depressed, no one should ever make light of it or pass it off as insignificant. I know you will work through it with time.

Hugs,

Diane

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  • Admin

Thank you for this one Drea. I am only at a little more than 9 months and already I have times when "what the hell did I do all this for?" becomes a virtual mantra for a day or more. None of it is regret, but you are very right that the stress of transitioning did become a major part of my life, and took up room that is now an empty space and needs to be filled. I would not trade one minute of what did happen, but those minutes are decidedly in the past and history. As a retired person on an adequate retirement income, I do have even more time on my hands. A minor drawback in my life is that activites I would love to have used to fill my time are no longer available to me. I had been a Scout leader for 45 years when my need to transition hit, and we know where that volunteer opportunity has gone by virtue of being Trans* but there are other young people and groups helping them where I can be a warm body that has experience others can draw from. I am looking at ordinary grundgy time filling work to keep me active, which is now my main goal, simply being active and dealing with people to keep my mind fresh and into a future. Always though I will remember that there are people hurting and struggling toward their goals. I will be the ordinary person I have felt myself to be, but the world is not what it was for five years.

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Guest Kylie2112

I can see it as no longer having that defining "goal" that you've had for quite some time as being a cause of depression. You spend all this time preparing for this one event and once it's gone and you have nothing else planned, you kind of lose your purpose. I see this with the older guys at work that retire and then miss out on the social aspects of the job, knowing you'll be occupied most of the day, etc. Then again, that's just my perspective. I can totally empathize with the post-op depression.

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Guest LizMarie

Kylie points out something that Drea mentions as well (and Drea covers a lot lot more too!) - that many of us, raised as males, end up being somewhat or even very goal oriented. And having achieved that goal, having grabbed the brass ring so to speak, what's next?

I keep trying to keep this in mind because I am a very goal centric person myself. So I hope to (and plan to) have other goals in my life once I reach that point.

As Drea notes:

This questioning revolves around finding a new purpose in life, growing beyond a trans person and recognizing that no matter what that achievement (transitioin, SRS) was in the trans world, it is in the past and means little in the bigger world.

And that's a big deal.

There is a great deal of excitement in finally being able to face your GID honestly and taking positive steps towards resolving it, but she's right in observing that all of us need more purpose in life than just solving that problem. The trick is in finding that purpose.

Thank you for posting this, Drea. It's thought provoking and confirms my decision to move slowly and carefully and to constantly question myself as I move forward as well as my intent to rebuild my outside life now, before that point, so that I have that life when I reach that point.

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Drea I agree with your observation, and I can see how some statements like you pointed out may not have the desired effect, being 3-1/2 years post op I fall within the 2 – 5 year period you referred to, though I don't recall being depressed many of those sayings others have told me from time to time, I never considered myself a role model, just another person trying to make it through life, I have had some friends that didn't want to talk to me because I was post op.

In my opinion after surgery transition continues but in a different way, of course there is the recovery period and the realization that dilation and hormones will continue for the rest of your life and you might have to deal with a complication from surgery.

Socialization is a big thing, and it has been said that happens mainly after surgery, I was laid off after 32 years in the computer industry, mainly male dominated, I now have a job at a retail clothing chain and interact with many other women, I have learned how to socialize and have grown so much more than I would have at my old job.

I think most that transition have tunnel vision and focus only on transition, I know that I did, I would spend all my waking hours online doing research and here at Lauras, ignoring other things in life, but there came a time when I realized that I could transition and get on with life. Many that transition want it all yesterday, I took nearly three years, I consider it a relatively short time, there are a few I know that transitioned and had surgery in one year.

Paula

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Guest ~Brenda~

In an online environment, there are an infinite number of personalities, agendas, and goals.

I can easily see that for those who have contemplated transitioning may feel threatened to hear about those who have transitioned begin to question their decisions, life, and path.

I also can see that in the spirit of support, people will respond as positively as they can to be encouraging to someone who is depressed about being post-op and the harsh realities consequently.

To me, post-op depression is a very important topic that needs to be thoroughly discussed and understood. I could see this becomming a seperate sub-forum here at Laura's.

The dynamics of transitioning are extremely complex at all levels. The sociological, psychological, physiological, financial, and spiritual, impact of transitioning should never be trivialized or idealized.

I think the reality check here is that one should never delude themselves that somehow life will be miraculously better after one has transitioned. All of the angst and mundane of life will still remain regardless.

In closing, the realities of post-op depression is a very important topic and aspect of understanding the true meaning of what the entire scope of transitioning really entails. I would suggest that as we here at Laura's encourage early acquisition of a gender therapist at one's beginning, we should also encourage the acquisition of a therapist at post-op.

Since most people here come here at their beginnings, it is natural for them to try to help in their own way and understanding, to help the post-op in pain, and themselves.

All of the people here are helping as they understand.

All are doing good.

Brenda

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  • Forum Moderator

Thank you for bringing this up Drea. I have to believe that we all have regrets or doubts about any of the steps we take towards transition. I know those doubts lurk in my mind and they can come back to destroy my peace at any time. I have to assume that would happen post pop as well. If, when we talk to the post girls here, we can remember our own doubts we can perhaps help more than hurt. Doubts and pain have been a part of my life and the lives of others here. Time and knowing others understand and care have been the strongest medicines.

Hugs,

Charlie

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Guest Melissa~

I have never met a post op that didn't have some depression. I do believe that transition is an obstacle in life, not a destination. I certainly consider my transition and pending surgery an obstacle to my employment, seeking a mate and retirement. In fact I stated so in my first ever intro post here on LP. Now my transition has proceeded typically, which I assessed as "okay" before starting my transition.

My pending move into post op life could end up much rougher than I hope(planned move to a new region, with further separation from family, and a new job), and that could be damaging to my mental wellness if disastrous.

I have some doubts I'll bring up to my therapist, Wednesday in fact. The cutesy thread about personality tests etc bother me. I have never done any official assessments. Both of the therapists I see, one that works with lots of TS people and one that I'm patient #2, accept that I'm TS and a suitable candidate to proceed. I would love to quantify that, but of course that's not possible. About the only quantification is RLE and that's proceeded okay, as in I haven't arrived on the 5pm news, and I'm not otherwise way out of adjustment.

Oh well in the game board of life there could be a TS spot, it would involve losing all that one realistically loses, then bypass the rest of the board and land in the retirement at country acres.. That would be depressing. I personally would prefer to continue playing.

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I started this thread because I have heard much of what I explained from folks post SRS who felt they couldn't really confide with most. That when trying to explain their feelings, even in private with folks who hadn't had SRS they heard the sorts of things I mentioned and realized that most trying to help them just didn't understand.

As for my personal experience, I would have to lump myself among those who went thru this period easily. I did it without really realizing it. In part because I am someone that finds all sorts of things interesting and had developed some new interests that that pulled me away from the community and answered that "what is there next" and I found self worth in other ways beyond any "transition" achievements.

This doesn't mean I didn't experience some of the feelings. Not the most serious ones but thing such as thinking about how all this added complications to my life. Some of those related to aftercare, but others involved social aspects, particularly relationships that were present regardless of surgery or not. I also came to see none of it as any special achievement. I simply did what I needed to.

One thing that also came to the forefront before I started to detach from the community was the responsibility issue. I started to realize that people put a great deal of weight into what I said not because it was logical, but because of this great achievement they felt I had. How they, without really knowing me, would conclude they were just like me and thus assume my choices would be right for them. I recognized that I didn't want to be in any way responsible for someone making such major decisions.

I suppose, well I know, there are folks out there to love the attention, like being looked up to for their having "transitioned" or having had SRS and are all about encouraging others to follow their examples. And such folks easily dismiss any negative events such people following their encouragement. For me however, having see just how different peoples needs are, and being someone who can't deny the influence I had, would feel some responsibility. As such this "you are my big sister" and other role model, looking up to me sort of stuff really started to bother me.

So for me, very clearly, had I been depressed, those sorts of encouragements based on people looking up to me, based upon something they hadn't experienced, would have quite the opposite effect of what would be intended. I do not feel I am unique and from what others have told me, their feelings about such comments would be similar.

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The agony I experience before transition I will never allow to be put into words. After SRS it was like a great weight was lifted from my shoulders and I was finally allowed to fly. I have been happy every day since. Drea, I hope one day you will find your happiness too.

IreneT

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  • 5 months later...
Guest Erika_1984

The problem is that for the envious, we can't empathize with you anymore, once you take that step and get SRS. I would generally advise against attempting to rely on pre-ops, particularly miserable envious perpetual pre-ops (MEPPs), for comfort for things specific to being post-op. I would advise you to find other post-ops and non-ops for that.

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I would generally advise against attempting to rely on pre-ops....

I would advise you to find other post-ops and non-ops for that.

Usually that is what they are doing... I have even seen some say they only wanted to hear from post-op, but that never stops those who haven't had SRS chiming in. Makes you wonder why that is?

Have you discussed this post-op envy issue with a therapist Erika?

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Guest Erika_1984

I would generally advise against attempting to rely on pre-ops....

I would advise you to find other post-ops and non-ops for that.

Usually that is what they are doing... I have even seen some say they only wanted to hear from post-op, but that never stops those who haven't had SRS chiming in. Makes you wonder why that is?

Have you discussed this post-op envy issue with a therapist Erika?

I was gonna, but I overslept and missed my appointment today.

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Guest Erika_1984

I would generally advise against attempting to rely on pre-ops....

I would advise you to find other post-ops and non-ops for that.

Usually that is what they are doing... I have even seen some say they only wanted to hear from post-op, but that never stops those who haven't had SRS chiming in. Makes you wonder why that is?

Have you discussed this post-op envy issue with a therapist Erika?

I was gonna, but I overslept and missed my appointment today.

Now that I think about it, I have in the past but my memory fails me what came of it.

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Guest NatashaJade

A very on point post, Drea. That kind of reaction drove me away from a support group I wanted to attend after my surgery. There was the attitude that I had nothing to be depressed about when I could have it worse...that I had so much so I should find happiness in that. And they needed me to be happy. They needed me to be happy because if I still had issues with depression then what kind of hope was there for them.

The truth is that transition and GRS took away a very pressing part of what ailed me. But it did not take away everything. Even more so, it revealed many things that had been overshadowed by trans issues and therapy has become more important in my life in working through many of them. I recently came to the conclusion that as much as I might not want to admit it, I have a need for a medication to take some of the edge off of the depression. Anything that helps achieve my best possible life.

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

Tasha

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Guest Erika_1984

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

For someone who finds SRS a very important part of their transition, and grieves and resents their (possible) lack of access to the same (and has for years), I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating. Only now do I find a possible opening for SRS, but that remains uncertain. For years, I have quietly mourned and resented this lack of access to SRS for me; only in the past couple of years has it erupted into a more explicit expression.

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Guest Jenni_S

If you find it patronizing and invalidating that SRS does not fix everything, and a person can still be depressed afterwards, you're going to be in for a rude awakening if and when it does happen. SRS fixes one thing with your body. It corrects what causes a lot of pain and anguish, yes, but that's all it does. It cannot change how people interact with you, your financial situation, your love life, your job, or your lack thereof, just to name a few things, whether they're not good before the SRS or things change afterwards. Life happens, and what's in your pants really doesn't affect most of those things that go on day-to-day.

You're welcome to believe otherwise, but going in to SRS with unrealistic expectations for it isn't doing yourself any favors.

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Guest KimberlyF

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

For someone who finds SRS a very important part of their transition, and grieves and resents their (possible) lack of access to the same (and has for years), I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating. Only now do I find a possible opening for SRS, but that remains uncertain. For years, I have quietly mourned and resented this lack of access to SRS for me; only in the past couple of years has it erupted into a more explicit expression.

How do you have lack of access?

It seems to me that you have two options.

1) Mourn your perception of how the world should be.

2) Work with the system that is currently in place to deal with what you feel the need to deal with as thousands of people have done before you.

Regardless of if your perception of how things should be, which has more long term upside for you right now?

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Guest Erika_1984

If you find it patronizing and invalidating that SRS does not fix everything, and a person can still be depressed afterwards, you're going to be in for a rude awakening if and when it does happen. SRS fixes one thing with your body. It corrects what causes a lot of pain and anguish, yes, but that's all it does. It cannot change how people interact with you, your financial situation, your love life, your job, or your lack thereof, just to name a few things, whether they're not good before the SRS or things change afterwards. Life happens, and what's in your pants really doesn't affect most of those things that go on day-to-day.

You're welcome to believe otherwise, but going in to SRS with unrealistic expectations for it isn't doing yourself any favors.

This response was even more patronizing than the last. Wherever did I say that I thought SRS fixes everything?

Again, it is patronizing and invalidating to someone who has grieved and resented a lack of access SRS for years (most of the time silently), who sees it as an important part of their transition (and who has attempted suicide over the lack of such access), to tell them SRS doesn't fix everything, y'know. We know that! But it doesn't lessen the pain any, and your restating what we already know comes across as the superior, enlightened post-op, chosen by destiny, lecturing to us miserable and benighted perpetual pre-ops.

Again, I will make this point very clear: Post-ops should not expect to depend on perpetual pre-ops for any emotional support; the pain is often too much for us. They should find other post-ops and non-ops, as well as pre-ops that are very likely to get SRS in the next couple years or so, for that purpose. You might say it divides the community, but the American trans community has long already been divided by the haves and the have nots, because of the lack of access to medically necessary treatment for so many of us, unlike the trans communities in some other countries.

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Guest Erika_1984

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

For someone who finds SRS a very important part of their transition, and grieves and resents their (possible) lack of access to the same (and has for years), I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating. Only now do I find a possible opening for SRS, but that remains uncertain. For years, I have quietly mourned and resented this lack of access to SRS for me; only in the past couple of years has it erupted into a more explicit expression.

How do you have lack of access?

It seems to me that you have two options.

1) Mourn your perception of how the world should be.

2) Work with the system that is currently in place to deal with what you feel the need to deal with as thousands of people have done before you.

Regardless of if your perception of how things should be, which has more long term upside for you right now?

I have finally found a path that might lead the way, but I am not just speaking for myself and my current situation: I am speaking from years of silently grieving and resenting a lack of access to SRS and for others for whom SRS is also important, but who under the way things are now haven't a snowball's chance in heck of getting it. I know a trans woman who went full-time 30 years ago who developed a disability not long after and became unable to work; she is now on SSI and Medicaid. Even though she has wanted SRS for these 30 years, she has been unable to get it.

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Guest Jenni_S
Again, I will make this point very clear: Post-ops should not expect to depend on perpetual pre-ops for any emotional support; the pain is often too much for us. They should find other post-ops and non-ops, as well as pre-ops that are very likely to get SRS in the next couple years or so, for that purpose. You might say it divides the community, but the American trans community has long already been divided by the haves and the have nots, because of the lack of access to medically necessary treatment for so many of us, unlike the trans communities in some other countries.

A thousand pardons. How should the post-ops behave and feel, in order to live up to your expectations? I don't know what we'd do without your emotional support.

By the way, how was it that I had access to medically necessary treatment? Just curious.

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Guest KimberlyF

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

For someone who finds SRS a very important part of their transition, and grieves and resents their (possible) lack of access to the same (and has for years), I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating. Only now do I find a possible opening for SRS, but that remains uncertain. For years, I have quietly mourned and resented this lack of access to SRS for me; only in the past couple of years has it erupted into a more explicit expression.

How do you have lack of access?

It seems to me that you have two options.

1) Mourn your perception of how the world should be.

2) Work with the system that is currently in place to deal with what you feel the need to deal with as thousands of people have done before you.

Regardless of if your perception of how things should be, which has more long term upside for you right now?

I have finally found a path that might lead the way, but I am not just speaking for myself and my current situation: I am speaking from years of silently grieving and resenting a lack of access to SRS and for others for whom SRS is also important, but who under the way things are now haven't a snowball's chance in heck of getting it. I know a trans woman who went full-time 30 years ago who developed a disability not long after and became unable to work; she is now on SSI and Medicaid. Even though she has wanted SRS for these 30 years, she has been unable to get it.

30 years? I know someone on SSI that found it important enough to buy herself a new car. She never had a cell phone or cable, and didn't smoke and had a roommate. She'd take a few odd jobs like baby sitting a few times a month, and put that money in the bank, and live off the other. She would rather drive than take public transportation for treatments. She did have to save for a while, but it was less than 30 years.

I suppose she could have just waited for the Gov to give her a car?

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    • Mmindy
      Good evening everyone,   I don't think my mother ever cooked a meal that I didn't like. We also had a kitchen where mom fixed the food, dad filled your plate, and you eat it. It wasn't until our baby brother was born that we could have Pop-Tarts for snacks. Before that all snacks had to meet mom's approval, and in her opinion wouldn't prevent you from eating supper.   Well my day started off on a good note, but has become frustrating because my IT person didn't transfer my saved videos I use for teaching. Then I found out that they didn't save any of my book marks for websites I use frequently.   Best wishes, stay motivated,   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • MaeBe
      The number is relative to method of deliver, the time of the dose, and when the blood is drawn. However, I do want to keep away from DVT and other potential issues. I assume I may be getting backed down from my current dose, but my doc told me to stick with the higher dose, so? I also wonder if this has anything to do the my breast growth and mental changes that have been happening over the past few years, like I have some estrogen sensitivity so a little goes a long way or something? I don't have enough data to postulate, but who knows!   With weekly, subcutaneous, shots you expect to see big swings of serum level estradiol from shot to peak to trough. My doctor is interested in mid-week testing (for E and T levels only), which would be post-peak blood serum levels but they will be higher than trough. Most, if not all, resources I've seen online is to measure at trough (which I might do just to do it next time) along with a SHBG, LH, and other metrics.   This is from transfemscience.org for Estradiol valerate in oil, which is very spiky compared to some other estradiol combinations. It's also for intramuscular, which will have a slower uptake and is usually dosed in higher volume due to the slower absorption rate from muscles. They don't have subcutaneous numbers, which I would expect to see similar spikes but higher levels at similar doses due to the relatively higher absorption rate direct from fat.   Are you doing pills, shots, or patches? And when you do get your levels checked are you getting that done when your levels are lowest or some other time?
    • Willow
      Both of my parents were from the “North Shore” of Boston.  My mother Lynn and my father Swampscot.  They had an early 1900s Scots-Irish New England diet.  My sister and I were born in the 40s in Ohio well away from New England seafood and in an area where food was more German and Polish.  My first experience with liver and onions was during basic training.  They ate salt cod but never forced us to eat it same with oysters.  My dad ate oysters but my mother wouldn’t.  Anyone who ever ate an oyster can figure that one out.  I grew up eating lamb.  My wife won’t touch it. I love brazed ox tail, again no way. And the list goes on.  
    • KathyLauren
      My mother was German, so yes, I think it was a cultural thing.  If I'd known you when we were cleaning out my mother's place, I could have sent you her "threat jar". 
    • Adrianna Danielle
      Been taking it real easy.Another good neighbor of mine and his 15 year old son came over and cut down a couple dead trees on my property.Knew not to do it taking it easy.I had them put the wood near my fire pit in the back yard.Did it and happy where they put it.They knew I had stents put in and needed to take it easy
    • Ashley0616
      Wow that is a high number for Estradiol good grief! Testosterone levels are better than mine. I don't remember my Estradiol level but testosterone was 80. To me that is really high but it was in the two hundreds the check in before last one. 
    • Ivy
      I don't understand why this would make a difference being a "dad" I mean, as far as how they would grow.
    • Ashley0616
      I don't see why not. I have worn forms since I came out. 
    • MaeBe
      I have never worn breastforms, but I assume as long as they don't aggravate your nipples you could.
    • MaeBe
      Every week I've been excited to take my shot, so it's never been an issue. Yesterday, however, I woke up and started my usual "slow roll" and then suddenly realized I had breakfast plans that I had to rush out the door for. After, it was straight into work calls, and then I got the notification from the doctor about things being too high and all the while my mind had completely slipped that I needed take my shot.   Given that I am not asking for medical advice, but sharing my journey, I will note my results: Estradiol at 447 pg/mL and Testosterone was 23 ng/dL, up and down from 26 pg/mL and 526 ng/dL respectively before treatment. Almost flipped the bit! The doc would like my Estradiol closer to 300 pg/mL, so we'll see what Monday's tests state.   Oh, and I teased the dinner with old soccer teammates and never updated the thread! It went well. There were a couple funny moments. One guy, who I was worried about their response, greeted me with "Hey, you've lost some weight!" 😎 And a friend who lives near me picked me up on the way to dinner exclaimed, after we learned one of the invitees might show up with a date, "Wait! We could have brought women?!" To which I instantly responded, "You kind of did, bringing me!" Everyone got a good laugh out of that. 😁
    • Ashley0616
      To me there isn't that much difference other the measurement, which side the zipper is on and men's pants have bigger pockets. 
    • missyjo
      I hope this is not stupid question..I have yet to start n not sure if doc will approve..but once you start growing buds n such, can you still wear forms to get to the size you were?   I'm a dad, so when I start blossoms they will be smaller for a long time n probably need surgical augmented..that's fine. I don't want to go ddd to aa to ddd..   any ideas?   thank you
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