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Creeps in public


Guest NeutraLee

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Guest NeutraLee

Now that gender is newly on my radar, I've been exploring with clothes and actually wearing stuff I'm comfortable in (androgynous, more men's than women's).

I was out walking yesterday, dressed in a way that was comfortable for me. Not feminine at all, but not stereotypically jock-male either. Right in the middle. Me.

And what happened? A creepy man shouted out to me in a very public way, telling me I was a lesbian and all I needed was to experience his "@#$%%$" and I'd know what it is to be a woman.

I've been called a lesbian thousands of times in my life. But these comments? They haven't happened in the last ten years or so, when I was forcing myself to dress more femininely to try to fit in.

This is the cost of being me?? Yuk. Is it really worth it...? How do y'all put up with it?

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HI Lee,

I'm not sure how I've avoided that kind of thing myself, but haven't any experience with it. So far.

But, probably just stay away from areas where this kind of thing happens. I know that's not always possible.

One thing that always makes me smile a bit is to imagine how miserable that person must be inside to feel the need to insult others for his own benefit, and to know that their karma will catch up to them eventually.

Love, Megan

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Guest sweetcharlene41

hI lee, i haven't put up with it either,m of closet cross dresser, but name calling in one way or another has been around for years. the italian's have been called names,m jew's, irish, polish. People who call other's names are jealous for the most part, there's an old saying, "sticks and stone may break my bones, but names can never hurt me", i know small consolation, but if you like what you are, then do you best to ignore it. love ya sweet charlene

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Guest NeutraLee

Thanks Megan. I wasn't in a creepy part of town. On a pretty regular city street that I can't avoid.

I don't wish the guy misery. I'm there and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I just wished he'd shut up.

I can hope it'll be a rare occurrence, but I doubt it. I used to get this sort of thing all the time back in my 20s. I thought it stopped because I got older. Apparently it stopped due to clothing choices. I guess I just have a vibe that triggers these guys.... lucky me.

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Guest PaulaP

There's creeps out there. You just develop a thick skin. I believe in the old saying 'Barking dogs don't bite'. It's probably just talk, and male posturing, but be careful out there.

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Guest NeutraLee

Thanks charlene. Names do hurt sometimes though....

I ignored it and moved on. It does add another bit of something to consider as I question all this gender stuff. Dress comfortably and get singled out by creeps, or dress uncomfortably and be invisible to creeps.... and to everyone....

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  • Forum Moderator

The guys problem is his and not yours-and there is no telling where it comes from. To shout out like that in public he could be on something or mentally ill. Which makes confrontation dangerous. The most important thing is to not let it put you in victim mode. Keep walking head up and shoulders back. It's okay to roll your eyes and shake your head at the poor fool if you are with someone or a passerby makes eye contact over the exchange but basically just walk away. You can't cure his problem- you CAN keep it from becoming your own.

It sounds like a rare occurrence to me. If it does start happening more regularly then it would be time to examine your body language and presentation to see if there might be something coming across that would trigger anger in others but not based on one random creep.

When I was going through the androgynous stage in transition I got puzzled looks and more Mams than I ever remember in my life before as people wanted to let me know they got my gender. But I stayed open and friendly and didn't get any negative comments. Did get a coupe of looks -but I am a master at looking back in a way that makes people decide they don't want to take it any further. Something I developed as a social worker having to walk alone where police officers would only go in teams. Mostly people will be friendly and nice if you are regardless of presentation - and the others are usually not worth troubling with.

Johnny

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Guest LizMarie

Depending on where you live, it can be problematic. Depending on how you present, males may react differently. I can send you a link that is about cisgender women being harassed but shows the situation and how it is literally woven into the fabric of our society today. (Unfortunately the link ended up containing some inappropriate language so I had to edit it out.) I can state emphatically that I know trans women who have experienced this as well as lesbians. I think we need to simply train ourselves to look past it as much as we can, to try to avoid it altogether whenever we can, and to try to find other positive external validations to help offset the negatives.

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  • Forum Moderator

I think all you have to do is to look at the passing forums to see how much we all fear that kind of confrontation. I know i do. It is hard to be yourself and some people just can't seem to be able to let it happen. There is a good possibility that he was either drunk or wanted to vent after being told off by a girlfriend. Regardless you did the right thing. I'm sure i've got some abuse coming somewhere along the line. It will come when i least expect it. I just hope i'll be able to let it slide into the gutter where it belongs.

Hugs,

Charlize

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Guest NeutraLee

From what I'm seeing, androgynous types seem to have different kinds of challenges than those who transition. This is feeling to me like such a complicated mess right now. I'm just trying to get my head around where I might fit in all of this.

The timing was bad with that guy. I know, he was probably drunk and he surely had his own problems that I wouldn't want to be living with. That doesn't make it easier to be on the receiving end.

This reaction coming out of the blue like that, just a matter of days after I switched to the (male) clothing style of my 20s, has also shown me just now not new this is. I used to deal with stuff like this All.The.Time in public. I have always been like this. This is not just a passing fancy. I just didn't have a term to describe what I was back then, didn't know it existed. Genderqueer. In the "T" spectrum. Me. What?

Anyway. Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the incoherent ramble. I'm just a bit of a confused mess these days.

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Guest LizMarie

Yes, the challenges are different, Lee. But at the same time there is some overlap. We can't truly understand your personal experiences but many of us have experienced similar things so we can be empathetic towards your situation. As you struggle to find your place, remember that no matter what, it's ok to be you, whoever that is. :)

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  • Forum Moderator

Some of my experiences:

Although I must admit thankfully I have not had heavily sexual abuse, when I first started going out in feminine clothing and perhaps not getting it quite right I got quite a bit of attention. Middle aged males especially I don't think could cope with what they were seeing and often stopped in their tracks in shock. That made them unpredictable and scary.

These days I dress even more feminine but usually get the mix right, and am far more confident. As such I generally seem to attract far less attention.

I love the saying 'Androgyne people dress to confuse so people don't know whether they are male or female'. I mostly do not know what people are thinking and know that my gender is often confused. Usually it is women who know but they are less critical, in the main, than men although can occasionally be childish (especially younger [in their twenties] females).

Teenagers generally show little attention.

Tracy

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Guest NeutraLee

This was definitely a middle-aged man.

I want to be me, but I'm not sure I'm confident or brave enough to be that person who confuses people, who disrupts the status quo.

After an accumulation of abuse and isolation and rejection and loneliness, all I really want in life is to fit in somewhere.

I'm discouraged... when I first discovered "genderqueer" just a couple of weeks ago, I thought I had finally found a place where I would fit in somewhere in this world. Now I see that it seems to be a group that's marginalized even within a marginalized group. Plus, this creep in the street is evidence that I'll fit in even less in a crowd if I go this route and be ME.

Yet, as I explore it all, I went clothes shopping in a men's section and OMG it was the EASIEST shopping trip of my life. I liked the clothes, they were comfortable, they looked good on, I didn't have to sift through to find the rare piece without the flowers and frills and puffs and plunging cleavage lines and all the other ick (ick on me, y'all look lovely :thumbsup:). I picked, I tried, I bought, I left, as simple as that.

So, I'm on the right track here. I'm just... I dunno... scared... not sure if I have the courage to pursue it. I know it was just one drunk guy in the street, but it has really shaken my (shaky, fledging) confidence.

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  • Forum Moderator

It is perhaps the rebel in me that keeps me going but I have found that I like the clothes and they are comfortable. I like the pretty things but I don't wear a often as I need to go out fully female in these which is more problematic (just in the getting out and the local situation more than anything else).

Don't be discouraged, just be careful. Take things slowly and build up your confidence. I find these days that I am often more relaxed when dressed in more androgyne style than fully male. I also find funnily enough that in some places I have visited my makeup (which is not too prominent) raises far more funny looks when I am dressed male than when very feminine. It might sound obvious but if the clothing did not suit me I would likely get a worse reaction. It indicates to me than a lot of the time I have got it right!

I think as far as fitting in - I have tried for years to fit in but I think I natually don't. I am very much a loner but at least to a large extent I am now happier. I think confidence is good. If you are confident people accept better and fitting in is more likely to occur naturally to a large extent. Many people I know now accept the way I dress as normal for me and although comment occasionally generally accept well.

Tracy

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Guest NeutraLee

I'm a loner too and I dream of not being so much of one, but I guess I'll take just being happier if I can figure that out... I'm really not a rebel. Quiet, invisible, awkward, lonely.

But, I'm going out comfortable today. I'm not going to force female, and I'm not going to push it too far in the other direction in hopes of fitting into the FTM world. I'm going comfortable. I'm going me. We'll see how it goes.

Let's hope I don't meet any creeps who stomp me down.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest abigus

I wish I had some advice for you... I certainly feel I can relate though; but I can say, "women" dressing like "men" seems to be much more acceptable in society than the reverse... Usually people will ignore women as "tomboys", but if a guy goes around wearing a skirt? Most people would say something. Regardless, I don't want to make it seem like I'm downplaying your problems... I think it takes a lot of courage to be yourself in public, something I don't think I'll be able to do for awhile. Still... I'm closer than I used to be; I've grown my hair out, and there have been times I've been mistaken for a woman (which I'm cool with), but some guys WILL get a bit rude or preachy... and it definitely does seem to be their own problem with coping... Where you live can have a big influence with how you're treated.

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Guest Kendra K

Sadly it seems that's the way things happen. Not sure how to deal with it.

They're completely at fault. It shouldn't happen, but it happen to women who are born women all the time.

Sorry hon. :(

Mods: I've noticed on the mobile version that if I click to quote someone's post I'm able to click "follow this topic?", but if I don't it doesn't give me that option.

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