Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Response from Rabbi About Being Transgendered


Imaginary Spiders

Recommended Posts

So I am Jewish and transgender. I think it is quite possible that I am also intersexed. Traditional Judaism is not very supportive of trans people. However, it is more lenient towards intersex individuals because their gender is truly uncertain. I emailed a rabbi about this. I thought perhaps I would get a supportive response because of the possibility that I am intersexed. However, I did not. First the rabbi discussed Judaism's definition of the intersexed.

In Judaism there are two categories of intersexed individuals. Category one is known as Tumtum. These individuals are born with concealed genitalia. The second category is known as Androgens which refers to an individual who has both male and female genitalia. Helacha states that if an individual has obvious male genitalia then they are male. Also in the of the Jewish intersex categories those individuals are not permitted to come in contact with either gender especially in the form of touching. as you may know in traditional Judaism one is not permitted to touch the opposite gender except for in the case of marriage.

I also asked for advice on being transgender. I mentioned how I am considering transitioning to female and doing HRT possibly. I didn't mention That I have been considering a sex change sense age 11. I didn't think that would go over well. His advice was not do estrogen, but testosterone because one with male Genitalia is male and always will be. He went onto state that I should attempt to strengthen my maleness.

The individual is an orthodox Rabbi. Much of what he says matches up to the orthodox view. I emailed a rabbi because I desperately wanted a Jewish opinion before I move forward. I respect his answer and find it informative, however it is basically telling me to be a man and suck it up though I can't and ignore the fact that I have serious issues that won't just go away. I hope this has been helpful. I didn't know much about the Jewish opinion on the intersexed until now. I also hope it helps to see the traditional Jewish view on being transgender. Also I will be contacting a reform rabbi and hopefully a conservative one about this. I will post about those responses when I get them as a way to present the different Jewish opinions on being transgender.

Link to comment
  • Admin

Thank you, Laura, for relating your experience with this Rabbi. I am not at all surprised to learn he is an Orthodox Rabbi, as the Orthodox branch of Judaism has not been supportive, either in the U.S. or in Israel. However, I know of several Reform Rabbis in my area and nationwide who are extrmely supportive and welcoming of trans folk. If you look, I am pretty sure you can find support within the faith. Please do let us know of your results. I wish you luck.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

Link to comment

Thanks. I know the reform movement tends to be pretty acceptant. I come from a secular family, so I feel that I fall somewhere between the secular and reform mindset. However, I like to hear what all rabbis have to say. One of the things that really helped me to come to accept myself as transgender was becoming aware of the reform movements attempts to make trans people feel welcome.

Link to comment

Interesting bit of information. From what I have read there is a lot evidence of transgenderism in the Tenach/Old Testament. The example I always found interesting is the Midrashic story of Dinah. It tells how Leah gives birth to Dinah as a son and then wishes to God to have a daughter instead and Dinah suddenly becomes female. Then I think I read on here about how Joseph's coat of many colors is properly translated as princess dress, which may be evidence of transgenderism. I'm sure there are many more examples. I don't understand how rabbis were able to accept it then, but not now. I mean the more traditional rabbis of course.

Link to comment
Guest Mickey

Seems like most people have a need to feel like they are better than somebody else. If they can point to us, as Trans* people, and call us evil and abominations, pointing out our unrighteousness, then they can feel as if they are righteous people. "At least we aren't as bad as them." That kinda thing. It's too bad they don't understand the love of God.

Link to comment
Guest Kenna Dixon

Religious leader or not, a person these days who defines gender strictly in terms of organs is willfully ignorant.

People have a right to stop learning whenever they like, but at the same point in time I'll cease respecting their opinions.

Link to comment
  • Forum Moderator

Thank you Laura for posting and everyone else for their input.

I always feel it is good to know about cultures and religions so although I cannot really add to the above at least I now have a bit of a feel for the approach of Judaism in current and historic context.

Tracy

Link to comment

Laura, I can only add what I know from my experience- trying to suck it up, and man up did not work, I tried for 39 years after a disasterous experience being out as a youth. And I tried hard to get over it, had therapy, spent 5 years in mens groups at church actively trying to "overcome", had had lots of prayer from others and numerous prayers of my own. And I've dealt with difficult problems sucessfully, gone from a black out drunk to 13 years sober, from 90lbs overweight to trim, and from 3 packs a day to non smoker. Those were tough, but I succeeded. Because it was possible, and I tried hard. Tried much harder, much longer, to "man up". Finally decided it was not possible, and it was splitting me in two And a lot of the self abusive behavior was rooted in gender dysphoria.

Link to comment

So I concluded God would rather have 1 whole and functional me, regardless of what some of Gods people think.

And, post acceptance, I finally got an answer to my prayer -but it was a new prayer of thanks- thank you God. After that one, I felt a big "you're welcome", with a smile attached.

Link to comment

Kenna: I agree that it is ignorant to define one based upon genitalia. Also traditional Judaism is ignorant though I respect it in the fact that it has a very narrow definition of who is intersexed. It ignores things such chromosomal conditions and hormonal imbalances which may also constitute an interesexed individual. Also I find it interesting how religious fundamentalist ignore science, such as all of the science that has emerged about both the interesexed and transgendered. It was science that convinced me that I'm transgender not religion.

Tracy: I think I have a pretty good understanding of your experience. I tried to man up as you put for 25 years and it was hell. I imagine that doing it for 39 years is even worse. By age 4 or so I knew that I should be a girl. I have always felt female, but never knew what it meant. When my parents found out about my cross dressing habit they just thought I was gay. I didn't know anything about gender identity, so I just thought that maybe I was gay. Then I just tried to imagine myself as a gay man which was mostly based on stereotypes because that's all I knew. It just didn't feel right to me. I found it weird that I was supposedly gay, but found men degusting and liked girls. So I tried to be a man. So I tried to embrace the "invasion of the testosterone monster" which is what I refer to male puberty as. Everyone was so proud of me becoming a young man and becoming masculine, but inside I hated it, I just wished it would stop and that I could go through female puberty instead. I almost found some hope during puberty when I experienced breast growth. I thought I was going to have breasts like a woman and then it stopped. So I spent those 12 years from age 13 trying to be a man just to please people. The main reason I went through all of that suffering is ignorance. Over ten years ago where I am from which is in the middle of a rural area it was basically considered taboo to talk about LGBT things. Actually I didn't even know what that term meant. I really really wish someone would have just told me when I was 13 or younger What it means to be transgender and that I am indeed a woman and that it's okay to like girls. I remember at one point I tried to force myself to like boys because I thought I was required to, but it just grossed me out. I couldn't imagine myself making love to something I couldn't stand being. So now I am getting ready to transition to being the girl I always knew I was with the hope that my past will no longer determine my future. Thanks for making me think of all of this. It really helps to get 20+ years worth of buried things out of your system.

Link to comment
  • 2 months later...

I contacted a rabbi from Chabad the other day. Chabad is in an ultra orthodox Hasidic movement. I expected to just get a rather negative response such as just be a man and ignore my issues. I asked him about his opinion on transitioning to female. He wrote "Your choice should be about what's really you, and your mission in life." I was shocked to get this answer. I may be misunderstanding things slightly, but I believe I have just been told by an ultra orthodox rabbi that I should transition to female. I also mentioned to him that I am attracted to women and asked what my sexual orientation would be in the eyes of Judaism. His response was basically that I should not be attracted to women that it is "prohibited". Never expected in a million years to have an ultra orthodox rabbi tell me this.

Link to comment

Kenna: I agree that it is ignorant to define one based upon genitalia. Also traditional Judaism is ignorant though I respect it in the fact that it has a very narrow definition of who is intersexed. It ignores things such chromosomal conditions and hormonal imbalances which may also constitute an interesexed individual. Also I find it interesting how religious fundamentalist ignore science, such as all of the science that has emerged about both the interesexed and transgendered. It was science that convinced me that I'm transgender not religion.

Tracy: I think I have a pretty good understanding of your experience. I tried to man up as you put for 25 years and it was hell. I imagine that doing it for 39 years is even worse. By age 4 or so I knew that I should be a girl. I have always felt female, but never knew what it meant. When my parents found out about my cross dressing habit they just thought I was gay. I didn't know anything about gender identity, so I just thought that maybe I was gay. Then I just tried to imagine myself as a gay man which was mostly based on stereotypes because that's all I knew. It just didn't feel right to me. I found it weird that I was supposedly gay, but found men degusting and liked girls. So I tried to be a man. So I tried to embrace the "invasion of the testosterone monster" which is what I refer to male puberty as. Everyone was so proud of me becoming a young man and becoming masculine, but inside I hated it, I just wished it would stop and that I could go through female puberty instead. I almost found some hope during puberty when I experienced breast growth. I thought I was going to have breasts like a woman and then it stopped. So I spent those 12 years from age 13 trying to be a man just to please people. The main reason I went through all of that suffering is ignorance. Over ten years ago where I am from which is in the middle of a rural area it was basically considered taboo to talk about LGBT things. Actually I didn't even know what that term meant. I really really wish someone would have just told me when I was 13 or younger What it means to be transgender and that I am indeed a woman and that it's okay to like girls. I remember at one point I tried to force myself to like boys because I thought I was required to, but it just grossed me out. I couldn't imagine myself making love to something I couldn't stand being. So now I am getting ready to transition to being the girl I always knew I was with the hope that my past will no longer determine my future. Thanks for making me think of all of this. It really helps to get 20+ years worth of buried things out of your system.

When did I write this? Oh, I didn't. You tell my story very accurately. That is truly amazing. I thank God in tears of joy and awe, he has delivered me and made me whole. No man could have created that miracle within me. So I will allow no man to interpretate that for me. I am blessed. My ownly downfall is loosing site of that, then I throw myself into the jaws of the wolves of this world. Each time God delivers me, yet it all seems so illusive. I wish you well on your quest, you are one of God's very special gems. Adorn him with your sparkle my sister. Hug. JodyAnn

Link to comment
  • 1 year later...
  • 4 months later...
On 10/7/2015 at 1:55 PM, Imaginary Spiders said:

So I am Jewish and transgender. I think it is quite possible that I am also intersexed. Traditional Judaism is not very supportive of trans people. However, it is more lenient towards intersex individuals because their gender is truly uncertain. I emailed a rabbi about this. I thought perhaps I would get a supportive response because of the possibility that I am intersexed. However, I did not. First the rabbi discussed Judaism's definition of the intersexed.

In Judaism there are two categories of intersexed individuals. Category one is known as Tumtum. These individuals are born with concealed genitalia. The second category is known as Androgens which refers to an individual who has both male and female genitalia. Helacha states that if an individual has obvious male genitalia then they are male. Also in the of the Jewish intersex categories those individuals are not permitted to come in contact with either gender especially in the form of touching. as you may know in traditional Judaism one is not permitted to touch the opposite gender except for in the case of marriage.

I also asked for advice on being transgender. I mentioned how I am considering transitioning to female and doing HRT possibly. I didn't mention That I have been considering a sex change sense age 11. I didn't think that would go over well. His advice was not do estrogen, but testosterone because one with male Genitalia is male and always will be. He went onto state that I should attempt to strengthen my maleness.

The individual is an orthodox Rabbi. Much of what he says matches up to the orthodox view. I emailed a rabbi because I desperately wanted a Jewish opinion before I move forward. I respect his answer and find it informative, however it is basically telling me to be a man and suck it up though I can't and ignore the fact that I have serious issues that won't just go away. I hope this has been helpful. I didn't know much about the Jewish opinion on the intersexed until now. I also hope it helps to see the traditional Jewish view on being transgender. Also I will be contacting a reform rabbi and hopefully a conservative one about this. I will post about those responses when I get them as a way to present the different Jewish opinions on being transgender.

I don't know if my experience will be helpful, but just wanted to share and have fellowship with you.  I was born Russian Jewish and grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn NY called "Little Odessa". I have known I had a birth gender defect since about age 6 or so.   I spent a lot of time trying to understand how this could have happened to me, and coming to grips with my frustration.  I never reconciled that with Judaism.  I had two major problems with Judaism - these are called "biblical inerrancy" and "biblical infallibility".   These brought me to a place where science and critical thinking gave me the feeling that Judaism was not a truly accurate depiction of God and our place in this Universe, and I felt that in my heart.   I tried Born Again Christianity for a short while but any Abrahamic religion still has to contend with  "biblical inerrancy" and "biblical infallibility".  My frustration with the bible being errant and fallible took me to agnosticism.  But in my heart I believed in survivalism of some sort and I did not believe annihilationism was realistic.   In college I did both my undergrad and grad school at Catholic and Jesuit schools (Sacred Heart,  LaSalle, and Regis) and none of the academic courses I attended at the undergrad or graduate level helped me in any way come to grips with my views on survivalism and annihilationism;  nor did it bring me to a place where I felt I fit into our Universe as a Trans Woman.  I view pure survivalism and pure annihilationism to be the two far spectrums of theologic thinking, as do all religious scholars.  I wanted something "in the middle somewhere" that didn't fail the test of "biblical inerrancy" and "biblical infallibility";  if that makes sense.    So that is where I am now.   I am now thinking what makes sense to my scientific mind and critical thinking is Buddhism.  It has the aspects of survivalism (something beyond this life) that I believe exists in our Universe, and yet it has no canonized "Words of God" that can be inerrant or infallible.   If you or anyone else is going the the same journey as I am, and wants to be friends and discuss as we learn -  I would love to have fellowship with fellow religious pilgrims.  

 

Link to comment
Guest Clair Dufour

Cecilia: I have been reading Hindu texts written at the same time as the bible but, far more expansive, that make clear they had no problem with LGBT people. While thanks to the Mogules and the British, India is still not a great place for LGBT people, there are enough traditions and temples that are pro LGBT and they wear really cool outfits. A good overview read is at http://www.galva108.org/

Link to comment

Frankly, I don't give a D*!* what people think or who they are.  I can stand on my own two feet and make a choice to be happy.  Hell, they're not trans.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   8 Members, 0 Anonymous, 128 Guests (See full list)

    • Ivy
    • awkward-yet-sweet
    • April Marie
    • Ashley0616
    • MaeBe
    • KathyLauren
    • Jet McCartney
    • Adrianna Danielle
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      80.5k
    • Total Posts
      767.2k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      11,940
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Raelyn
    Newest Member
    Raelyn
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. **Angela Charlotte **
      **Angela Charlotte **
    2. Carlie
      Carlie
      (63 years old)
    3. Cbxshawn
      Cbxshawn
      (49 years old)
    4. HannahO
      HannahO
      (31 years old)
    5. JustKatie
      JustKatie
      (40 years old)
  • Posts

    • Ivy
      I like them too.  We had them growing up.  But my father's family were Swedes.
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      Oh my!  I guess it just goes to show how different tastes can be. Since we don't live near the ocean, Seafood is a rare luxury. We absolutely love pickled herring! Especially my husband and my GF, I guess it's a Ferman/Russian cultural thing.  But most of the kids like it too, and a jar wouldn't last in the pantry for long 😆
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      I think the key to that is just not minding eating the same thing repeatedly. Since we produce a lot of our own food here, we end up eating what is in season at the moment. So, when the yellow squash is ripening, we end up fixing squash 20 different ways. When the strawberries are ready, we eat lots of strawberries. It's kind of a different mindset to eat in season when it has become such a part of American culture but the grocery store has everything we want all the time. Like grapes in December.  My family does even things out a little bit by having a greenhouse so we have some fresh things in the winter, but it's not a 100% fix.
    • KathyLauren
      My brothers and I had to eat what was on the plate.  All of it, and nothing else.  Pickiness was not tolerated.  Some of our least favourite were liver and onions, sauerkraut, and especially rollmops (pickled herring).  We finally protested enough to persuade our mother not to serve rollmops, though she kept a jar in the pantry for years afterwards, as a threat if we didn't behave.
    • Carolyn Marie
      I'll go first.  My favorite team is the Yankees.  Loved them since I was a kid.  I was born in NYC so, yeah.  I know everyone loves to hate them, and that's OK.  I just love baseball in general.  It's a game of traditions, strategy, power, grace and skill.   Play Ball!!  ⚾   Carolyn Marie
    • Ashley0616
      I guess you do have a good point. It's just hard to try and not have the same meals over and over again. 
    • Willow
      Hi   I’ll weigh in on being picky about food.  Yes, and I was brought up that way.  We didn’t have to eat everything our parents ate.  They had a number of things they ate that they figured we wouldn’t eat, an acquired taste things or one or the other didn’t like them too.   even as an adult there are many things I won’t eat.  In my defense, there are different things my wife won’t eat.   the weird thing is that after being in E, my tastes have changed.  Sweet, sour, salty or bland, if I eat or drink too much of any one thing and I have to counter act it.   Willow
    • Ashley0616
      I have shared my doses and levels a lot and no one has said anything. Yeah I put alarms on my phone to make sure I don't miss a dose. I tend to forget a lot of stuff on what needs to be done. I have been also using the calendar on my phone a lot. I missed an appointment because I didn't put it in my calendar. 
    • Ashley0616
      Feeling better than I did yesterday
    • MaeBe
      It's official. My doctor wants me retested after the last results (too high). The test, that she scheduled, was likely too close to the dose. She did tell me to keep the increased dose instead of reverting to my old one, probably because my "too high" wasn't that high. I don't know what the forum's stance is on results, knowing full well the rules against sharing dosage, so I'll keep those under wraps until I know if it's OK to share those. Less to say, it was over the range she feels comfortable with by about 50%, but taken a day earlier than the midpoint value she was expecting. Grains of salt everywhere!   Of course I messed everything up too, missing my dose for the first time, yesterday. I had to re-reschedule the lab I setup yesterday to Monday from Saturday after taking my shot this morning to avoid the same issue with the testing. I woke up and thought, "Thursday, what do I have to do for work today? OH -crap-, IT'S THURSDAY! I missed my shot yesterday!"   Anyhoo. Question for the ladies: does anyone else get a mild zen-like high after their shots/doses? My brain feels lighter and I'm happier and I feel a lot more girlie this morning. 💃
    • MaeBe
      I'm into my fourth month of HRT and just titrated up in dosage after my last checkup. This is my life. 🤭   I have yet to grow out of my B cup bras, but I have noticed more fullness, having started with gynecomastia. I am seeing less gapping in bras with my right breast, which has always been smaller than my left. My areolae are slightly pronounced/projected now, that are larger but not vastly greater in circumference, and I have noticed little to no nipple changes beyond their painful sensitivity.
    • Ashley0616
      @Ivy that is a great point! Great post!
    • Ashley0616
    • Ashley0616
      -It's not a sprint it's an endurance.  -It won't happen overnight. -Seek a gender therapist. -You might lose a lot of support but hang in there. If they truly loved and cared about you they would stay. -Retail therapy helps and plus it builds your wardrobe and shoes. -Makeup is an artwork. It takes lots of practice to do it right and watch YouTube videos on how to put it on or someone who is knowledgeable. -You are going to have roller coaster emotions so don't rush anything. 
    • Ivy
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...