Yes. No. Maybe. I dont know.....

[ShawnaLeigh]

SO I decided to start a separate thread from my "OMG, OMG, OMG" post.  That was about coming out to my sister.

This is the ongoing saga of me trying to come to terms with coming out to my wife.

If you read the other post we were kind of going off track with this line of thinking.  

 

So my wife and I took a day trip to the coast of Maine.  Kittery Outlets, to do some shopping.  I have been loosing a ton of weight after my bariatric surgery and needed more pants to go to work in.  Was in 42 and now I am in a 34.  

It was a wonderful day together.  We had a nice breakfast, found tons of deals, and sung songs in the car.  It was just a nice day together.

As some know I had planned to try and "probe" the questions of how much my wife knew about transgenders and if she was even remotely interested in a lesbian relationships.  THATS a TALL order when she still has no idea about me.  (I am still so afraid to let her know for many reasons that I have beat to death here at this forum.)

So a tad bit back history.  

I was super stressed and high anxiety over seeing a therapist my first time.  My first appointment was a soul rigging emotional experience to say the least.  I cried a hour before, all during, and for that whole weekend after my appointment.  I was a hot mess.  I woke crying several times since and cried all night long.

I told my wife one morning about me crying all night long but I told her I didn't know why.  (still afraid to out myself).  We talked about it for like a minute and just played it off.  I tend to use jokes and humor to cover up my real feelings which I need to stop I know.

Ok back to yesterdays trip...

We were having a nice breakfast and after a while I told her not to worry about this but that I was planning to go see our doctor.  We have the same doctor for about 3 years now.  I told her I was having mental and emotional issues and I wanted to understand why.  We talked about what she felt it could be and I sat there just nodding and agreeing knowing full well what it was.  I told her at one point I realized why I was crying all the time and told her of my "nightmare" I was having.  Which is a true thing.  It has been reoccurring since my first appointment.

The dream starts at a point where we are in the heat of a major argument.  I'm crying and blubbering trying to explain myself.  I apparently had come out to her and she was not taking it well at all and basically ending our marriage and throwing me out.  It is a terrible dream and most likely stems from my biggest fears I have over this with her.  It was so dang real though.  I get so emotional over it I wake up balling into my pillows.  Then all my fears take over and I cant stop.

 

So we talk about this a bit and she is being very understanding how such a dream could be emotional.  But she ends the conversation with "You have nothing to worry about honey.  As long as your not transgender...."  The sentence ends, as does the conversation.

(Cue nuclear explosion in my heart)

I was set back and did not know how to respond plus we were in the middle of our breakfast in a restaurant so it was not the time for debate.  I let it go.

But now I am jabbing and joking with her all day with how emotional I am, how much a sissy I am, how she is going to be kicking me out sooner then later.  Just playing around with her but also planting that seed.  I didn't let up.  She joked with me too and I didn't take offense really, we were just ribbing each other and having fun.

So we get home later that evening and while we were changing I bring the conversation back up.  "So what IF I WAS really transgender what would you do?"

Her reply was, "Well why would you still want to be her if you were.  Go find a man and move on".  My eye popped out and I was not happy about this.  I retort with "Not all MTF are attracted to male you know..."  Using a very snotty tone.  Then is she asking why I am getting all bent out of shape over this.  I explained to her that she was disappointing me.  That the proper reply would of been.  "No matter what happens to you or with you I will always love you."  I was referring to examples like if I got into a bad car accident and had brain damage and a mental deficiency or something similar.  I asked her if she would kick me out in such a case?  "No of course not" she replies.  "Ok so why would I be any different to you emotionally or in our marriage if my outside wasn't the same as before?"  (Fair question)  

She turned it around and asked again why I was so upset over this.  Then she outright asked. "Why are you transgender?"   I froze.  I had an opportunity right there to just blurt it out but held my tongue.  I stammered even.  I did not deny I was and I did not admit I was either.  I was ashamed in myself but I am still afraid of the possible fall out and I am still not sure how it would go.  

I turned it back around and asked her to answer the question.  Would she divorce me and kick me IF I was transgenders?  "Would you not love me anymore?" 

She says," I never said I wouldn't love you...  letting the sentence trail off like she implied "but if you are why would you want to be here.."  Then she said just that.

I told her she knows "dang well" (insert profanity) I do not have any interest in men and only want and love you. Period.  Now I am mad and I really didn't want ti going that route. 

That's where it all ended for the evening.

We talk about other stuff. But that conversation was done.

So I lay awake in bed thinking about all this and it was not the positive response I had hoped for but I did not walk away completed disheartened.  

It was clear to me she is somewhat uneducated about the differences between transgender and transsexual.  I really did not take it that she has had much experience with any other trans folks either.  Though to be honest neither have I until I came to this forum.

I also felt good about getting some of the language out there between us.  In a sense that I was brave enough to even say anything concerning all this.

Lastly I felt good knowing I planted that seed in her mind on the topic.

I have decided to not go to extreme lengths to hide my personality that I have been starting to show.  The way I talk and stand and move are all starting to feel a lot more feminine and I am not going to hide this.

She knows I do a full body hair removal, I left a razor in the shower instead of hiding it, things like this.

Even the way, the manner of speech, when I talk to her is more feminine then from how I had before.  I'm not throwing a female voice at her yet but I am also starting to act a lot more submissive too   Especially around men.  This is occurring on its own and not sure where it is coming from...  It just feels right to me so I am going with it.

 

So thats my update.

I plan to see my doctor this week and out myself to her.  Then tell my wife she has referred me to a therapist.  Which was actually his, my therapist Jacks idea, to say and he would cover for me if it ever came up.  He is also not submitting any of my insurance forms until she knows I am going to therapy with him.  He doesn't want to out me by her getting insurance explanation of service letters from her work insurance saying anything that would out me.  He said he can back date them or update them to whatever fulfills my timeline in coming out.  I was blown away he would even suggest doing this.  He is top notch for sure.  

 

So that's it for now.  More to come.  I am not far away from just saying it to her and dealing with the fall out.  I am exhausted keeping this up..

 

 

 

 

[Jackie C.]

First off, thank you. The suspense was killing me. ?

 

That could have been worse. You flubbed a couple of lines. The author in me is saying, "rewrite," but that doesn't work in real life... Which is really too bad, if it did my life would be EPIC. I'd also have super powers.

I'm glad you at least started talking about the possibility to your wife. Hopefully she'll see that you were trying very hard to be honest with her. I also see why your past experiences with ... well, past wives ... would hold you back. Maybe she just needs a little education and some time to come to terms with what you said. I wish you lived closer, I'd volunteer to take you both to lunch or something. Susan and I are a very happy, if a little nauseating, couple.

 

So yeah, a couple of cracks in the ice. A little progress. It sounds like laying it on her all at once might be too much. I'd ask my therapist for advice on baby steps so you can move forward and she can stay comfortable. Definitely a joint session if she's willing.

 

Also, work on your romantic language. When she says, "Why would you want to stay here with me?" the correct answer is, "Because I never want to be anywhere else." I prefer sappy to snippy.

 

Congratulations! Little victories. Looking forward to hearing about what happens next!

 

Hugs!

[Carolyn Marie]

I suppose it could have been worse, ShawnaLeigh.  She might have just assumed that you were coming out to her after all the hinting.  I think you would be better off not waiting very long to get to the next step and fully come out to her, because the conversation is going to weigh on her mind a lot, I suspect, and the longer you wait the worse she might feel about it.

 

I suggest you find some good educational materials online and have them ready.  She is, like most people, unaware of all the facts surrounding transgender people and the differences between gender identity and sexual preference.  My wife didn't understand and it took her a long time to accept the fact that I was not going to run off and find a man to be with.  You can and should make it clear to her that while things will be different, your lives together don't have to completely turn upside down.  There are many of us here whose marriages survived and thrived long after transition.  But open and honest communication are keys to success.  That's why I suggest not waiting too long, now that she probably suspects something is up.  Best wishes to you.

 

Carolyn Marie

[NB Adult]

Jackie glad you are a good advice market for Shawna, I felt her pain just reading it. Been there a long time ago myself and I still don't think it's entirely over. I went to group with Susan R last week, I wasn't specific about the fact that it was a transgender group and my spouse went on to assume the next day that it was a veteran's group meeting. I haven't been involved substantially in the trans world for a long time and I just know she will go off on me over that. She accepts me with all my TG baggage and even helps me with my clothing styles, but she will balk at the idea that I'm involved in the community again. 

[ShawnaLeigh]

Thank you ladies.  I love you bunch so much.  How supportive you all are.  
I just came out to my stepmother too.  Super positive.   
im feeling stronger each time.  
I wouldn’t be at this point without you all.  
 

I agree waiting is not wise now that the seeds have been planted.  Only time and my bravery will tell the tail.  

[SaraAW]

That is great that you came out to your stepmom and it went well. 
 

I struggled coming out to my wife too. I let certain hints slide by intentionally not hiding certain things too. I waited too long and let her confront me a couple of times about it before I finally opened up and stopped denying it. She suspected right from the start and denying it so many times just made her more upset with me when I did. 
 

That being said, only you can decide when to do it. It sounds like you are putting some things in place to help yourself, which is great. 
 

There has been lots of misinformation in the media for a long time, it may take some time to inform her of the facts. I am still working on things with my wife. We’re still sleeping in the same bed, so while it’s not exactly going as well as I’d hoped, it could be a lot worse. With time and lots more open dialogue, we’ll figure things out, whatever the future holds for the two of us. 
 

Thanks for the update, like Jackie I too was waiting in suspense. 
 

*hugs*
 

Sara

[ShawnaLeigh]

So I dropped the big CO bomb last night with my wife.  She actually started the “other” conversation back up and said a lot off very nice and sensible things.  Then she asked me directly again if I thought I was transgender.  
I took the opportunity this time and told her I am.  
It was not a blow up or cry fest.  At least for her.  She was so calm and collected and analytical. 
But the main point she made to me is that she loves me and will support me in whatever way she can.  However if I do go down this path she can not stay married to me.  She will go down it as a friend. 
Cue the water works.  
She suggested therapy, which I did not confess to yet, and that she would even go with me after a while and some time to work my own issues out.  
there is nothing set in stone but my marriage is over.  I am not being asked to leave but eventually I see myself moving into our spare bedroom.   
I would type more but I’m a wreck right now.  
 

[SaraAW]

Don’t give up hope yet Shawna. She’s accepted you for you and that’s an amazing start. Give it time, work on the relationship and she may come around. My wife has said pretty much the same thing to me. I’ve slowed things down as we continue to work through things. I want to move much faster but for the sake of our relationship I’m trying to move at a pace that gives her time to accept the changes in little bite size pieces. 
 

The fact she said she’s willing to come to therapy in the future seems likely a good sign that she’s still invested in the relationship. 
 

Hang in there girl, take it one step and one day at a time. Try not to jump to conclusions on anything or read anything into anything, super hard to do I know. Keep talking with each other openly and honestly. 
 

We’re here to support you, you’re not alone in this. 
 

*hugs*

[ShawnaLeigh]

I see all the hope in that way of thinking.  But she said way more then what I wrote.  Also it is how she said it.  She made it perfectly clear she would not be in a lesbian relationship.  Period.

It is something she does not want for herself at all.  Which I do respect.'

I'm more hurt that she does not love me enough to go beyond those feelings but it is what it is.  You cant change a persons feelings or heart.  

I am thankful she said she would support me if this is where I intend to go but she is putting this "choice" on my and not taking any of it for herself.  Which is not right in my opinion.

I have no choice as it is who I am.  She is angry I was not outright open about this 10 years ago when we met.  That I had lied to her all this time which Lying is a major thing for her.  Beyond forgivable type of thing.

Which I also respect and agree with.  Now its a matter of trust too.

 

I hope that maybe once she gets more information and actually comes to a therapy appointment to gain more knowledge on my particulars, that she may soften.  I know she loves me and I know she is shocked and hurt too but admitted she knew something was up for a long while and just never said anything to me about it.  

I'm still reeling from all this and I am having a hard time thinking clearly and trying to make a plan is not happening for a bit.  Work is a good distraction but I am barely keeping myself in check.

[Jackie C.]

I am just so very sorry. At least she's not talking about throwing you out. I'd introduce her to your therapist and maybe try some couples therapy. At the end of the day though, you like who you like. If she can't accept a lesbian relationship, well, that's going to be a loss for both of you. It's going to be hard on you both, but at least she still wants to be your friend. Friends are important too.

 

Words are failing me here. I am just so sorry things aren't working out how you'd like. You've had your share of relationship fail. You deserve to find a good person who will love you back for you. All of you. She'll want the two of you to be happy together.

 

Sweetie, you need a big hug and a good cry. Hang in there.

 

HUGS!

 

[ShawnaLeigh]

52 minutes ago, Jackie C. said:

I am just so very sorry. At least she's not talking about throwing you out. I'd introduce her to your therapist and maybe try some couples therapy. At the end of the day though, you like who you like. If she can't accept a lesbian relationship, well, that's going to be a loss for both of you. It's going to be hard on you both, but at least she still wants to be your friend. Friends are important too.

 

Words are failing me here. I am just so sorry things aren't working out how you'd like. You've had your share of relationship fail. You deserve to find a good person who will love you back for you. All of you. She'll want the two of you to be happy together.

 

Sweetie, you need a big hug and a good cry. Hang in there.

 

HUGS!

 

Thank you very much.  All true points.  Just have to get past all the hurt right now.  So I can do what is right for the both of us.

 

[NB Adult]

A few points here worth consideration; she doesn't have to feel that it would be a lesbian relationship, because in her purview you are still her husband and if the vows meant anything at all it shouldn't matter how the two of you manage any future intimacy together. You should point that out to her in a reassuring manner as possible. Another thing is to avoid and passive-aggressiveness or condescending comments in your conversations, those things only serve to push a wife further away. I'd make an effort to stifle tears in front of her as much as possible, there's times when it's cute like during a touching movie scene as you watch a film together, but a constant girly-like boo-hooing about everything is sure to drive her off.

[ShawnaLeigh]

1 hour ago, NB Adult said:

I'd make an effort to stifle tears in front of her as much as possible, there's times when it's cute like during a touching movie scene as you watch a film together, but a constant girly-like boo-hooing about everything is sure to drive her off

This I Totally get and I was never was like before.  The whole experience has dug up much deeper emotion and I literally can not control it.  I cried in private for a week before I knew why.  
but I get your message.  Thank you.  

[DeeDee]

ShawnaLeigh I an not in a position to offer any marital advice and wouldn't presume to do so, but I can point out to you that there are a few women on this site who have gone through that very same conversation with their spouse too and are still together. However the future unfolds for you there will always be folk here who understand, growing up I was told to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. ? 

[ShawnaLeigh]

So Sunday night was a total nightmare with coming out with my wife.  OK not total.  It could of been much worse but by no means did we resolve anything.

So Monday I just went into my normal routine.  Got up early, worked out, got reeady and went to work.  She had the day off so she stayed in bed.  I felt it was best to just let her have time to absorb everything and give her some alone time.

I come home around 3pm and the house was totally and completely spotless.  Which she does not clean very often so I was very enthusiastic and praised how nice it looked.  

We went into our regular routine of getting lunches ready for work, supper cooked, and in general it was like NOTHING had ever happened over the weekend.

No comment no discussion no nothing.  She was very pleasant and we joked and laughed about cute things the dogs were doing and it felt like I had told her nothing.  

I was texting with my sister telling her if I disappear to look for me in the reservoir by the house.  She was being almost to nice.

We had a great supper got ready for bed and that was that.  

Very pleasant morning getting ready for work and I helped her get the dogs fed and out so she could get out the door quicker.  I was planning a longer prep this morning because my dang hairy legs were driving me crazy.

I don't know why it was just left alone like that.  Very unlike my wife to not just talk about something until it is resolved.  Don't let it fester sort of thing.

So I'm not sure what to do, but I do plan to continue with the topic and give her some detailed history on how things really were/are with me and why I have gotten to where I am today.  I need to make her understand I did not plan it from the beginning only to just drop this on her 10 years later.  

I hope she gains at least an appreciation or insight of how this can evolve and what it can do to a person mentally...

[Jackie C.]

She's probably working things through in her head. This is a big deal for her and it could be hard for her to wrap her head around. She's thinking, that's a good thing. She doesn't know what to think and she's working it out.

 

She's got restless energy. I do the same thing when I'm working through a problem. My mind won't sit still and it won't let my body be still either. I need to find something productive to do with it. Frequently, I'll clean something too. It's like the ONLY time I'll clean something, but when I'm working through a problem, things get DONE.

 

Don't pick at it. Just love her and remind her that you're still there (with gestures, you don't have to yell "I am here!" when you enter a room or anything), just be there and let her work through it in her own time. When she's ready she'll open up again.

 

This worked for us, so I'll put it out there. Susan had questions, so she wrote them all out in advance and then we set aside time to talk about them. You might suggest the same thing. Ask her to write out a question or concern or two and address them in bite-sized chunks. Again though, no pressure. If she puts walls up, back off. She needs space and time to process her thoughts.

 

Hugs! Hang in there! I'm still rooting for you.

[NB Adult]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

Ask her to write out a question or concern or two and address them in bite-sized chunks. Again though, no pressure. If she puts walls up, back off. She needs space and time to process her thoughts.

 

Excellent idea Jackie!

[ShawnaLeigh]

She is being super supportive and loving and keeps telling me she wants me to be happy and do what is best for myself.  She admits she is scared of how this will effect her life too and she has no control over it.  Something very very hard for my wife to deal with.  Having no control over her own life.  I get that believe me.

We are talking and texting and getting a lot out.  I still plan to explain the entire life time of trails and tribulations as my discovery has grown over the past 40+ years.  Admitted I don't recall much from childhood other then being taken to my doctor four times trying to "un-gay" me.  Something that just made me push my feelings deep uncover and to try and just be the male I was born into.  I was quite successful being that boy and young man.  Not so successful being a husband or a father.  

I see that it was a journey of discovery that just does not happen over night.  Lots of time and pain and confusion before you even starting asking the right questions.

In the end I seriously do not feel anything I say or do, short of just being the man she hopes me to remain, will save the marriage.  I respect her point of view and how she feels and have said so quite a few times.  People can change and have a change of heart I realize.  But some things a person just cant do.  A line they will not cross.  Being in a lesbian marriage is that line for her.

I know it in my soul.

[ShawnaLeigh]

BTW thank you to who ever fixed my typo in the title.  LOL

It was bugging me badly.

[Susan R]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLeigh said:

People can change and have a change of heart I realize.  But some things a person just cant do.  A line they will not cross.  Being in a lesbian marriage is that line for her.

I know it in my soul.

 You sound just like me a year ago, ShawnaLeigh.  I thought that the lesbian tag was going to ruin everything for me.  My wife is deeply spiritual and 'lesbian' was not, in a sense, part of her vocabulary let alone staying in a marriage with one.

 

All I can say is "Never say never!" Because you limit yourself right out of the gate.  People change everyday.  Your wife is looking at this whole thing with limited knowledge, experiences and time.  She needs all three of those to possibly see you for who you are.  In my own situation it took about six months for my wife to accept our relationship fully.  It did cost her a church and a change in her self image but now she would not go back to the way things were even if it was possible.

 

I'm not saying it will happen that quickly for others but I wanted to give you some hope because just a year ago, I was right where you are and couldn't see how it was ever going to work. Miracles do happen every single day.

 

Best to you,

Susan R?

 

[ShawnaLeigh]

1 hour ago, Susan R said:

 You sound just like me a year ago, ShawnaLeigh.  I thought that the lesbian tag was going to ruin everything for me.  My wife is deeply spiritual and 'lesbian' was not, in a sense, part of her vocabulary let alone staying in a marriage with one.

 

All I can say is "Never say never!" Because you limit yourself right out of the gate.  People change everyday.  Your wife is looking at this whole thing with limited knowledge, experiences and time.  She needs all three of those to possibly see you for who you are.  In my own situation it took about six months for my wife to accept our relationship fully.  It did cost her a church and a change in her self image but now she would not go back to the way things were even if it was possible.

 

I'm not saying it will happen that quickly for others but I wanted to give you some hope because just a year ago, I was right where you are and couldn't see how it was ever going to work. Miracles do happen every single day.

 

Best to you,

Susan R?

 

Thank you for this.  I guess there is always hope if there is love.  

[ShawnaLeigh]

So I will continue to post here about my ongoing struggles with my concerns about my wife and our marriage.

As of now there are none.  Well there are.  Many.  In the past few days since I had come out to her I assume everybody was thinking otherwise as was I.  I truly felt I was spiraling downward and had dark thoughts late Sunday night believe me.

 

She is being very supportive and trying to be understanding.  Maybe she is doing her own research now too.  I don't know.  We had a long texting string yesterday and it felt very positive.  She apologized and tried very hard to explain how much she does love me and is concerned for me.  I wont get into the line by line but her original claims that she just wants me to be happy and to figure out my own answers is important to her.  She explained how sorry she was because she had no idea how unhappy I was.  She maintains she wants to support me with all this and to find peace for and with myself.  I explained I am not unhappy with her or our marriage.  Just that I am not happy hiding my true self.  I am not wanting anything different between her and I and the only thing that is truly bothering me is the ultimatum she laid on me about our marriage.  Making it seem like it is all my choice to end it or not based on what path I take. It is not choice to me.  I have to be myself.

However, without coming out and saying so directly I feel she thinks by me going to see a therapist is going to "fix" me and I feel she is hoping I will realize I want to just stay the man she knows and loves.  I honestly am well past that point but have a hard time saying so.  I am waiting to get more therapy under my belt, and answers to reinforce my feelings, when I try to explain things better to her.  I never know what to say on how I feel or where I feel things are going.  How I see myself and how I think it will end up.  I have no idea at this point.  Well some idea but you know what I mean.

I tried to get her to understand the person she fell in love with and married is still me.  Just the outside packaging, my male persona, my shell, is not exactly what represents the person inside.  Some of it is, I know, but the majority is not.  The person that is me wanting to get out. But that this internal persons feelings and emotions and heart is who she fell in love with.  It is a hard thing to understand and maybe harder to accept.  I am hoping with more time and education she will at least understand and base her wants, needs, and decisions on that new information.

 

I am not forcing or focusing on "the conversation" any more.  I am giving her time to absorb things and watch and see how things go.  To just spend time with me as she feels she wants to or not.  Lately she seems closer to me.  

Our home life is as good if not better as she seems more "gentle" about my feelings and more attentive in general.  Though I warned her not to treat me any differently as I am still me the one she loves not something that's broken on the edge of falling apart.  I don't want her to feel she has to coddle me or walk on egg shells around me.  That will only piss me off to be truthful even though I know the good intensions.  I still am a proud person not something broken.

I apologized to her for being so overly emotional lately and tried to explain why and what I thought and what was happening to me.  Though I still don't fully understand still myself.

Therapy will help me figure this out and living with far less anxiety and stress after coming out to her seems to be doing a good job just in itself.  

 

[Jackie C.]

It sounds like she's trying. I never expect anything else from people except that they try. Hopefully the two of you will figure out what the new normal is going to be. I also think a dual session with your therapist... when she's ready... would probably do you some good. I realize I'm assuming there. I've never met your therapist. You seem to like him so I'm working from the assumption that he's good for you and good at his job. I'm looking back at that... I apparently get more rambly when I'm tired.

 

So yeah, happy things are calm and the two of you are talking. All the luck!

 

Hugs!

[ShawnaLeigh]

I truly feel she is and I have told her so and how much I appreciate her being this way.  I have not even tried to discuss the lesbian topic or anything that will feel like an attack on her feelings or beliefs.  I figured the therapist will be able to say things better in that regard.

She swears she will go with me after I have had time with him ti figure out things more.  Or once he "fixes" me.  LOL

 

[SaraAW]

Give it some time, don’t forget to support her through her journey and take it in steps you’re both okay with. 
 

You’re already looking to be in a better place with your wife, than I am with mine. She’s not really supportive of anything right now. She says she still loves me and we still sleep in the same bed. So I am hopeful with time we’ll find our balance. 
 

*hugs*
 

Sara