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Being shut out


Belle

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I need to vent. I've been feeling so accepting of my identity today after my GT appointment. Then I started watching some YouTube videos about trans science that are fantastic! So I sent them to my wife...

 

But we agreed the other day to stop trying to convince or educate one another. I shouldn't have sent it but it was so clearly laid out she would have a hard time denying the science. She refuses to watch then. She still won't accept that there is a difference between sex and gender. My identity is a huge wedge in between us. In almost 20 years of marriage it's the only thing we have not been able to reconcile after a short period of time.

 

She won't argue theology with me either. She insists she has done her homework on the science and the theology. Apparently I'm listening to "the world" and "Satan's lies." The fact that I'm submitting it to God every day and have a solid theological education apparently holds no sway because she has "changed what [she] 'knew' to be true in favor of [my] point of view in the past when ended up backtracking on it."

 

Add I am writing this it just occurred to me that she may actually want to end our marriage. Maybe that's why she's closed off. She wants it her way or no more relationship.

 

Above all I can't bear to imagine what my children will go through if we divorce. She is the love of my life. <em><span class=?"> = <em><span class=?">

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Oh gosh Belle, I'm sorry to hear that. Having someone you love and trust harden their heart to you like that... it just makes you bleed inside. If she won't listen though... there's nothing you can do about that. For your sake, I hope that she sees the light, but in your shoes I'd make plans for the worst.

 

Hugs sweetie. I hope things turn around for you both.

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Unfortunately she is not listening to you because you now chafe against her hard beliefs.  There may be no way around this. People who do not want to compromise typically are unmoved by arguments.  IMO she is in the minority but to each our own.  

 

It will be hard and that you have children will not make it any easier to bear.  Be prepared for a tough fight.  If she is taking counsel from her friends at church you will not change her as they back up her point of view.  You may consider looking for legal counsel.

 

Jani

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2 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

Oh gosh Belle, I'm sorry to hear that. Having someone you love and trust harden their heart to you like that... it just makes you bleed inside. If she won't listen though... there's nothing you can do about that. For your sake, I hope that she sees the light, but in your shoes I'd make plans for the worst.

 

Hugs sweetie. I hope things turn around for you both.

Jackie had said what I would of too.  
I am sorry she is so closed minded to who you really are.  It’s not right from someone you love and loves you. 

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Belle, another thought.  You wife may be "the love of your life" but she is not the same person you married and neither are you.  She has (hopefully) evolved over the last 20 years, just as you have.  I'm speaking in terms of intellect, emotion, empathy, understanding, and so on.  You have also grown inside but have not let that part out until now.  Some couples relationship can survive this change (and the news that precedes it).  Some couples do grow apart (without this type of event) and I suppose it isn't necessarily a bad thing to look to the future where you can both be happy.  Maybe you can remain as friends, many couples who do separate will remain close, if for no other reason that they have a long history together. 

 

I only bring this up because you cannot put Pandora back into her box.  From what you've written your wife sounds pretty adamant about not accepting this as status quo.  She is not only considering what it means to her marriage but to her standing in the community and her church.  I'm surprised that she "went public" with this private matter but that's obviously her way of dealing with stress.  

 

While I'm not saying you can't go back to the way it was before you told her, the odds are quite slim.  It might be the best move for both of you to seek your own happiness.  You live in a large enough metro area to be able to find a space away from the "noise" of your present community. 

 

Jani

  

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5 hours ago, Jani said:

Belle, another thought.  You wife may be "the love of your life" but she is not the same person you married and neither are you.  She has (hopefully) evolved over the last 20 years, just as you have.  I'm speaking in terms of intellect, emotion, empathy, understanding, and so on.  You have also grown inside but have not let that part out until now.  Some couples relationship can survive this change (and the news that precedes it).  Some couples do grow apart (without this type of event) and I suppose it isn't necessarily a bad thing to look to the future where you can both be happy.  Maybe you can remain as friends, many couples who do separate will remain close, if for no other reason that they have a long history together. 

 

I only bring this up because you cannot put Pandora back into her box.  From what you've written your wife sounds pretty adamant about not accepting this as status quo.  She is not only considering what it means to her marriage but to her standing in the community and her church.  I'm surprised that she "went public" with this private matter but that's obviously her way of dealing with stress.  

 

While I'm not saying you can't go back to the way it was before you told her, the odds are quite slim.  It might be the best move for both of you to seek your own happiness.  You live in a large enough metro area to be able to find a space away from the "noise" of your present community. 

 

Jani

  

This Belle. This is well written and speaks a lot of truth.  I only wish I had said it.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Belle, my wife says the same thing about "listening to the world" and "Satins lies".  I can't get her to read any information about transgender as all that is from the world and all psychologists are wrong, without even reading what they say. 

She wants a separation and not a divorce and that's okay with me as we are keeping our commitment to God, except it will be very costly financially.  We had a comfortable life on our income but now living separately will eat up every bit of discretionary income we had.  

I am 74 so I have no plans to re-marry and she doesn't want want to take a chance on another man. 

I would not want to put another woman through this either. 

I envy the ladies here who have wives that are even somewhat cooperative. 

When religion is important to a wife, there is no chance, and I know that my wife loves me very much as I do her, by the way she is treating me pre-separation as she prepares to find another place to live and there is much sadness that we will miss each other dearly and are clinging to each other and affectionate daily. 

I hope that this will be your situation too if you do part.  At least you can look forward to being the real you. 

Donna

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Thank you Donna. This is indeed a difficult situation we are both going through. I have a solid education on Scripture and theology, and after studying opposing views on this topic I believe there are very sound arguments to be made that our Western Christian theology is wrong regarding both gender and sexuality. A really good book to read is Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.

 

Belle ❤

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3 hours ago, DonnaBall said:

When religion is important to a wife, there is no chance

IMHO, “No chance” may be a bit strong. When “religion” or perhaps the appearance of being spiritual is important to a spouse, there is a very much reduced chance of the marriage or relationship surviving.  A spouse can participate in religious or spiritual activities and still love their trans spouse.

My wife is very spiritual and, like myself, has a very close relationship with our creator.  until I came out, she taught at a Spirit filled Christian church for years.  They knew me as her husband and I attended her church several dozen times over the course of about 5 years.  I got to know many of the members personally.  It was her church leader that stated she could continue to teach but I (as Susan) could no longer attend the church.  This ultimatum cost her old church a faithful leader.  To this day, she still practices with the same unwavering faith...just at a more inclusive church with her spouse.

 

Susan R?

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55 minutes ago, Belle said:

I believe there are very sound arguments to be made that our Western Christian theology is wrong regarding both gender and sexuality. A really good book to read is Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.

Along the same lines is a very good book my wife and I recently read called Transforming by Austen Hartke which is about the Bible and the lives of Transgender Christians. 

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It’s very difficult to sway someone who refuses to listen to a different point of view or a more inclusive interpretation of any scripture. The truth is that for centuries a very strict and exclusive doctrine has permeated theology and it’s actually about dogma more than the spiritual. But if we really study the history of the world and stop looking at the culture of the stories in scripture as being in a solid bubble (which is not very realistic and may as well have been a theme park because it’s a high fantasy) we see a lot broader picture of the reality of ancient times. Several places mentioned specifically that eunuchs are beloved of god, and some are made eunuchs and some are called to be eunuchs. It goes without saying that often the practice was done before puberty so it’s very likely that female characteristics were a feature of being a eunuch. But it’s also a window into the cultural veneration of eunuchs in biblical times. Something preachers often ignore due to the very strict binary propaganda that most denominations adhere to. Being a sacred eunuch was not quite like the monastic traditions of early catholicism, but something entirely different and more inclusive. They were given positions of opulence. More accurately one could describe the Ethiopian eunuch on the road to Gaza as sitting in a Roman style wagon on pillows while reading Isaiah. This fits the culture much better than the masculine picture of a man in a chariot and it would also be less difficult to read and take the journey. It’s also more likely for Phillip to catch up to someone on a wagon reclining on pillows. Most likely this individual was an accountant and in charge of Candace’s wealth. This makes sense because it also means that they were very loyal to the queen and that also implies friendship. It’s also known that Ethiopians were very familiar with the Old Testament. So this eunuch was returning to Ethiopia after a yearly feast and some kind of trade agreement. But the passage they read touched their heart and this opened up a conversation about the prophecy. We will never know what the complete dialogue was but it definitely started with tears. Reading a touching story and being driven to tears by it is decidedly feminine, and perhaps the unabridged version of the dialogue reflected this and other feminine aspects of the eunuch. I’m completely convinced that Phillip explained who it actually was and told the happy ending which really cheered the eunuch up. It’s well known that the vast majority of early believers were of the female persuasion and are vastly more spiritual than their male counterparts. They felt more and cared more. Some guy in a chariot wouldn’t be as eager to be baptized as a feminine eunuch on pillows because the chariot is a decisive vehicle and driven by those who are in a hurry to get somewhere. It’s what isn’t said that blows open the narrative of 2000 years of deliberate dogma concerning these narratives. If the eunuch had been presenting as masculine the story might have been even more compelling with a change in behavior but the scribes chose to omit certain details because they were male centric and this is why the story seems like it’s missing pieces. 
 

I have mentioned it before but the story of Joseph actually alludes to the feminine eunuchs of Ashera with the coat of many colors. That kind of garment was used to signify a future initiate of the religious caste. It was still in practice in Samaritan lands and documented by Roman historians so this explains why the people of Roman Palestine who practiced Judaism had a low opinion of Samaritans. They celebrated eunuchs and still incorporated them in spiritual functions. They still incorporated Ashera which was a point of contention all throughout the Old Testament but it made them more compassionate (the good samaritan). It was so frowned upon in Joseph’s day that his own brothers beat him and sold him into slavery and faked his death to protect the family honor. Which is duplicated in the Middle East today with mercy killings. But this tyrannical behavior started with the mosaic cult and changed Judaism forever. Only the menorah and golden calf remain in scripture as a legacy of Ashera. Both were her symbols. This is catalogued on numerous altars that were found all over Israel, some of which actually inhabited the temple mount in Ashera groves. And the menorah is the only surviving symbol still in use. 
 

Why is this so taboo? Because femininity has been demonized in spirituality and written out of the narrative to reflect a decidedly masculine point of view. And western faith and culture is worse off for it. It was once celebrated, and brought balance to the spiritual dialogue. Now it’s suppressed and women are usually painted in an unflattering light except for some examples. Eve tricked Adam. Lots daughter’s conspired to seduce him. Delilah tricked Samson. And of course Jezebel. And of course the word poisoner mistranslated into witch, giving a decidedly feminine gender to the label we can most closely associate with an assassin, which is genderless. They present a very two dimensional picture of women who were more human than they are given credit for. The only times we see women in a positive light is when it supports the narrative of being submissive to their husbands like Ruth and Ester. Both women were devout and supported the faith. So this sends a very clear message for women to tow the line of doctrine and not to deviate. 
 

That’s why it’s so difficult for people to accept transgender people because it defies over 2000 years of conditioning that prohibits everything that isn’t prescribed by the scripture as it’s been maintained. But all these supposedly taboo things are still there in fragments through the narrative because they were a living part of the ancient culture. Maybe it’s still too early for people to accept it and revive the truth, but it’s necessary for humanity to heal and grow up. I’m one of those people who truly believes that being transgender is a calling to repair the scar that we all suffer from because of skewed propaganda about femininity and the cultural hatred of it. 

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4 hours ago, Belle said:

Thank you Donna. This is indeed a difficult situation we are both going through. I have a solid education on Scripture and theology, and after studying opposing views on this topic I believe there are very sound arguments to be made that our Western Christian theology is wrong regarding both gender and sexuality. A really good book to read is Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.

 

Belle ❤

Belle,  you know they use scripture to justify their resistance to us, but doesn't it boil down to the fact that they don't want to see us as a man in a dress.  My wife had never seen me as Donna and I'll bet she had some grotesque picture in her mind at what she might see, using something she saw years ago on Jerry Springer or Ru Paul.  Also she is probably homophobic and does not want to admit it would be a lesbian relationship. She actually had a traumatic experience when she was a little girl where her friend made a move on her in her friend's house and the mother caught them and reported it to her mother.  She learned it was very bad. 

Also seeing us as a woman, even if we looked really good transformed, being so familiar with us, they would still see the untransfirmed person through a disguise, unlike others who don't know us would see a real woman. 

I will read the book but I doubt that it will make any difference to my wife's core beliefs about herself.  

For me anything that will help relieve guilt I have will help.  Thank you for the referral. 

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