Pentagon Handbook Adds Confusion & Frustration for Trans Service Members

[Carolyn Marie]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pentagon-handbook-adds-confusion-frustration-transgender-troops-critics/story?id=73239929

 

 

Carolyn Marie

[KayC]

It is not a good time to be Trans in the US military right now, but hoping that ALL changes next month ?

[Lee H]

I wonder if he's going to ban people with bone spurs in their heels? It would have saved him the trouble of bribing a podiatrist to sign that diagnosis so he could avoid the draft during 'Nam.

He has been a whimpering coward (and a bully) since childhood. He is the King of the Dismal Orange Swamp Rats.

 

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Lee H said:

I wonder if he's going to ban people with bone spurs in their heels?

I got drafted back then.  I don't have a lot of respect for draft-dodgers who go on to wrap themselves in the flag.

But on the plus side - I get my HRT from the VA.

 

(Hope this wasn't out of line here)

[Lee H]

Me too, on both counts. I joined the ANG, then we got activated for the Pueblo fiasco.

~~A hug from Lee~~

[Wichita]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:30 AM, Lee H said:

I wonder if he's going to ban people with bone spurs in their heels? It would have saved him the trouble of bribing a podiatrist to sign that diagnosis so he could avoid the draft during 'Nam.

He has been a whimpering coward (and a bully) since childhood. He is the King of the Dismal Orange Swamp Rats.

 

People have been booted for less. But that does destroy the narrative you’re trying to create.

[Wichita]

On 10/17/2020 at 6:25 AM, KayC said:

It is not a good time to be Trans in the US military right now, but hoping that ALL changes next month ?

It won’t, nor should it. 
 

People are denied entry and service for the most minor of ailments. I have a friend who was kicked out of Navy basic training for “a little knee pain.” They told him “get your knee fixed and then you’ll be ok to re-enlist.” He did exactly what they said and upon trying to re-enlist, he was denied due to prior surgery. Trans surgery is far from “minor surgery.” 
 

I was booted in 2003 for OCD & depression.  My paperwork says “condition not a disability.” Gender dysphoria... whether current DSM manuals call it a disorder or a condition is, in fact, a condition that interferes with service.

[Lee H]

4 hours ago, Wichita said:

People have been booted for less. But that does destroy the narrative you’re trying to create

People were not "being booted for less" during the build up in 'Nam drafting young men his age. He chickened out, plain and simple, and got a doc. to submit a "heel bone spur" diagnosis to get himself a 4-F deferment. "People who serve are fools and suckers," he said over the graves of Americans killed in one of the most horrific WWI battles on the Western Front.

 

That is my narrative, my girl.

[Wichita]

16 hours ago, Lee H said:

People were not "being booted for less" during the build up in 'Nam drafting young men his age. He chickened out, plain and simple, and got a doc. to submit a "heel bone spur" diagnosis to get himself a 4-F deferment. "People who serve are fools and suckers," he said over the graves of Americans killed in one of the most horrific WWI battles on the Western Front.

 

That is my narrative, my girl.

Then your narrative is incorrect. Even John Bolton, who despises Trump, stated Trump never made those remarks. 
 

Snd you know, having severe myself, you *might* have a point if any one of the last few democrat presidents served. Hell even Bush II, another republican, used daddy’s influence to stay as far from danger as he could possibly get.

 

Clinton never served, neither Bill, nor Hillary.

Obama never served.

Biden never served.

Harris damned sure never served.

 

So excuse me if I think the “Bonespurs” complaint is both played-out and disingenuous, at best. The Vietnam war wasn’t a very popular war. We as a nation treated those veterans absolutely disgracefully. And you react with surprise, shock, or disdain that a rich guy didn’t want to go?

 

Again, your position might have more weight if anyone on the list I posted actually served.

 

No, Trump never made the comments you claim he did. Know who did? Biden did when he called an entire group of uniformed soldiers “stupid bastards.”

[Carolyn Marie]

1 hour ago, Wichita said:

 

No, Trump never made the comments you claim he did. Know who did? Biden did when he called an entire group of uniformed soldiers “stupid bastards.”

 

This part of your post is incorrect and at best, misleading.  It has been debunked multiple times.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-troops-stupid-bastards/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-biden-troops-stupid-bastard/fact-check-bidens-2016-stupid-bastards-remark-to-u-s-military-intended-as-joke-idUSKBN26L3F3

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/28/instagram-posts/fact-checking-claims-biden-called-troops-stupid-ba/

 

If you are going to repeat claims that you've seen or read on social media, please do our members the courtesy of posting your source material.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Wichita]

1 hour ago, Carolyn Marie said:

 

This part of your post is incorrect and at best, misleading.  It has been debunked multiple times.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-troops-stupid-bastards/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-biden-troops-stupid-bastard/fact-check-bidens-2016-stupid-bastards-remark-to-u-s-military-intended-as-joke-idUSKBN26L3F3

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/28/instagram-posts/fact-checking-claims-biden-called-troops-stupid-ba/

 

If you are going to repeat claims that you've seen or read on social media, please do our members the courtesy of posting your source material.

 

Carolyn Marie

By the way, I clicked on me of the links that claims it’s misleading. The link claims it’s misleading because supposedly he said it “jokingly.”

 

I don’t know about you, but jokingly or otherwise, I don’t like to be called a “stupid bastard,” especially while serving in a combat zone (which I did).

 

And I find it interesting that a “joking comment” from him is a-okay, but one from his opponent gets vilified. (I should point out here that T’s oh-so-offensive comment about McCain was nearly a word-for-word repeat of a joke Chris Rock and other comedians said repeatedly to great laughter during his campaign against Obama.)

[Jani]

While I do not condone "jokes" of this type, for the president to repeat it is uncalled for.  Any way you look at it, it was in bad taste.  I also find the current crop of "potty mouth" comedians to not be funny at all.  

[Wichita]

1 hour ago, Jani said:

While I do not condone "jokes" of this type, for the president to repeat it is uncalled for.  Any way you look at it, it was in bad taste.  I also find the current crop of "potty mouth" comedians to not be funny at all.  

Oh I can’t and won’t defend his repeating of the joke. Even before I learned about Chris Rock’s “joke,” my contention was that T gets flustered and irritated way too easily and it was that fluster and irritation due to the interviewer constantly talking over him that led him to make the comment (again, this was even before I learned Chris Rock said it was first). 
 

My original counterpoint to the whole debacle was to say getting captured isn’t what made McCain a hero. It was refusing release and staying with his men when he could have gotten a “free pass” because of who his father was.

 

But the joke, in and of itself, and merely repeated by T, does not in anyway equate to him “disrespecting veterans.”
 

Hell even Seth McFarland took a jab at McCain in an episode of “Family Guy” and no one batted an eye. No one, that is, until a “mean man” that cnn and msnbc have conditioned half the country to despise said it.

 

Speaking just for myself, with my short 7 little years of service, I take much greater offense to millionaire athletes kneeling during the anthem than I take from “jokes,” regardless of who repeats them. A joke is...a joke. But kneeling during the anthem is not a “joke.” It’s not done for “laughs.” 

[Wichita]

17 hours ago, Lee H said:

People were not "being booted for less" during the build up in 'Nam drafting young men his age. He chickened out, plain and simple, and got a doc. to submit a "heel bone spur" diagnosis to get himself a 4-F deferment. "People who serve are fools and suckers," he said over the graves of Americans killed in one of the most horrific WWI battles on the Western Front.

 

That is my narrative, my girl.

Back on topic, we aren’t talking about Vietnam. Nor are we talking a time of war in which a draft was instituted. We’re talking about right now. And yes, while I was in (1996-2003)... and even in the intervening years... I’ve seen people booted for much less. 
 

My basic training class lost at least one or two, if I recall correctly, for “shin splints,” or “pain in the shins while running.” Though I can’t confirm the number who got the boot for that reason, I can attest I was threatened with it during one trip to the doctor where I was also complaining about pain in my shins. Needless to say, after that threat, I shut my yap and focused on ways to run that didn’t cause me pain. (I still only barely passed the minimum run time.)

 

In the years since my service, I’ve made a friend who spoke up about “a little knee pain” while squatting down to iron his uniform in Navy boot camp. He was shown the door quickly, with the caveat “Get surgery to fix that knee and you can re-enlist.”

 

He had the surgery as instructed, went to re-enlist and was promptly told his prior surgery disqualified him from service.

 

And that was “minor surgery” for “a little knee pain,” not major surgery to completely alter reproductive organs.

 

The problem is, people read “trans ban” and get up in arms. Even if they removed the ban today, prior major surgery would be exclusionary for service. 
 

Yes, in a time of war my friend’s “minor knee pain,” might be overlooked just as “flat feet” were eventually overlooked during Vietnam. But as our engagements are drawn to an (ill-advised) close and our forces are being reduced, they can and will use any and every excuse to deny enlistment. 
 

If we just separate the “t” word from the discussion, we’re talking about people who have major surgery up top, possibly vocal surgery, facial surgery, and of course the bottom surgery that comes with up to a year of recovery time. 
 

A “little knee pain” vs. a surgery with up to a year of recovery? It’s pretty simple math.

[VickySGV]

I think this topic has been beaten to death, Election Day is over.  I am closing it to further posting.

[MaryEllen]

I would ask that all future posts in this topic be factual, civil and within the site rules. Thank you.

 

MaryEllen

[KayC]

Thank you @MaryEllen and @VickySGV for keeping tabs, and helping keep the emotions down❤️  Our opportunities to have dialogue here are precious ?