Biden Talked Trans Rights at Thursday's Town Hall

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.vox.com/2020/10/16/21519067/joe-biden-town-hall-transgender-rights

 

 

Carolyn Marie

[MirandaB]

Biden has a long record of support for trans rights, also a long record of talking about trans issues imperfectly.  

[KayC]

5 hours ago, RhondaS said:

also a long record of talking about trans issues imperfectly

? Well .. he's kinda old white guy.  But I think his heart is in the right place.  It was nice finally seeing somebody speaking like an adult.

[MirandaB]

Wasn't trying to attack him, just saying he's one of those who supports trans rights without quite putting in terms we'd use.

[Mia Marie]

It's nice he talks about transgender issues but you have to also know he really doesn't have your best interest at heart. If for some way he gets in transgender issues will get put on the back burner and may not get to see the light of day on his desk since he would be too busy working to tax the hell out of America and getting rid of any and all that Trump set up to help you make money and be able to live a better life and afford the things you need. I agree Trump is listening toall the other republicans who want to have us go away but there is a chance that he could also be steered in a direction that will help us to be the people we were meant to be. You may think the Dems care but remember your rights and needs are on the bottom of their political list of things to do and by the time it gets to be in the upper part of the list it will be election time again. Just a little to think about. 

[Mia Marie]

Also, we will not have a fair shake with politicians until we have a transgender sitting on one or more of the seats in congress. Only then could we be heard loud and clear for all to hear. And if you really want the Republicans chains to rattle and break, at least one would have to be a Republican Transgender candidate.

[Carolyn Marie]

1 hour ago, Mia Marie said:

 he would be too busy working to tax the hell out of America and getting rid of any and all that Trump set up to help you make money and be able to live a better life and afford the things you need. I agree Trump is listening toall the other republicans who want to have us go away but there is a chance that he could also be steered in a direction that will help us to be the people we were meant to be. about. 

 

Mia Marie, I respect your right to your opinion.  But I would point out that Pres. Trump has had four years to do right by our community, and he's done nothing but hurt it.  What would change in a new Trump admin??  You really believe that he would grow a heart when his whole life says he has no heart?  I do hope that President Biden would get rid of most of what Trump did, and since the vast majority of what he accomplished was done via Executive Order, it is all very easily undone.  He is proposing to increase taxes on those making more than $400 K.  If you're in that group then you have something to fear.  Otherwise, you have nothing to fear.

 

Carolyn Marie        

[Mia Marie]

You actually wrong on that one sorry to say. It was found out that we will have to pay higher taxes if Biden gets in. Property tax will go up and so will taxes for those who make 50k or more. I personally haven't seen the it but it is being heard all over the medias. And if you think he will look to get rid of loop holes you are definitely mistaken on that. He and his son made millions and I know that people with that much money tries to find every way to keep from paying in taxes on it and the Biden's are no different.

[MirandaB]

Biden will lead the federal government if he wins. The federal government does not tax your property. If you're listening to medias that tell you that you might want to let them know they have that wrong. 

 

For trans issues, I'll take my chances with the guy who supports us and not the side that denigrates us. 

[Elizabeth Star]

3 hours ago, RhondaS said:

For trans issues, I'll take my chances with the guy who supports us and not the side that denigrates us. 

Agreed.

[Mia Marie]

Everybody is entitled to vote for who you want but I will not vote for someone, and I don't care what party they are from, and end up living in a socialist country with no rights at all to speak of. And if Biden wins Harris has already said at some point she will envoke the 25th amendment to take over the Presidency from Biden. You don't want her in full charge.

[MirandaB]

Do you have a link for that quote from Harris saying she'll invoke the 25th? Google's not helping, and you'd think that statement would have made enough news to be found somewhere other than on this forum.

 

The only things google showed was Trump saying that Pelosi would do it to replace Biden with Harris. 

 

 

[Jackie C.]

7 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

Everybody is entitled to vote for who you want but I will not vote for someone, and I don't care what party they are from, and end up living in a socialist country with no rights at all to speak of. And if Biden wins Harris has already said at some point she will envoke the 25th amendment to take over the Presidency from Biden. You don't want her in full charge.

 

OMG, I hadn't seen this one in the wild before! This is straight out of conspiracy theory territory. While I'm terrified, the psychology of Trump supporters and how it's developed since 2016 is really fascinating. Psychology is kind of a hobby for me. I wish I'd had the opportunity to study it more deeply,

 

Anyway, at least half of the democratic party are conservatives. Biden is a conservative. He would have been a Republican in the 80's, the same as Obama. There are something like twelve politicians in the democratic party that are actually progressive. The big ones get you "scary" YouTube ads with Halloween colors and dripping blood animations.

 

Finally, why do people use "socialism" like it's a bad word? Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all sodalist programs. People like those. Personally, I'm a democratic socialist. Socialism for needs, capitalism for wants. That lets everybody get what they need to live and still allows for the insane excesses of capitalism, just maybe tamped down a little bit. Also taxes. Why do people think taxes are a bad thing? Taxes are how we buy services in society. Taxes pay for the police, firefighters, roads, snow removal, the military, all those things we need to function. We're not a bunch of bearded (or leg-bearded for the ladies) pioneers scratching everything out of the dirt and making all our things with our own two hands anymore. We live in society. There's a buy-in if you want to participate.

 

So yeah, Biden isn't who I'd want for president. I'm settling because the other option is, in my opinion, infinitely worse. If you look at the situation, we've got two parties in the US. One is conservative, the other is openly fascist. That would be packing the courts, refusing to work with the other party, military against domestic targets, there's more but we'd be here all day. So yeah. I held my nose and voted for Biden. I'd rather not end up in a concentration camp. It's South and Central Americans right now and that needs to stop, but a central tenet in fascist governments is that there HAS to be an enemy to oppress. It's not going to stay "brown people" forever and this administration has already shown that it really doesn't like trans people. We're on the list.

 

For the inevitable "If you hate this country so much, why don't you leave it?" I'll say that it's hard to get accepted into another country and my health problems make it really difficult for anyplace you'd actually want to live. I think the real act of loving your country is doing what you can to change it into a place that isn't so terrible to live.

 

Well, that got heavy. Anyway. Vote if you haven't already.

 

Hugs! 

[Charlize]

I have already voted.  I seriously can't believe my opinions will influence others but as a trans person i have one vote.  I'm married to another woman and our Supreme Court may soon endanger that union.  As a retired person, apart from  a small occasional income from working the farm, we need Social Security.  We paid into this plan all our lives, others still do but now somehow it is an entitlement.  Of course the wealthy don't have to contribute on all of their earnings.  New yachts help the economy?  The problem may not be handled in the presidential election.  Congress must change as well.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Jackie C.]

I'd argue that we, as Americans, need to change. We need to invest in other Americans and see that their lives have value. The rest of the developed world figured that out more than fifty years ago and they're running rings around the United States in terms of stability, security, happiness and wealth. We're becoming the kind of country that Americans have traditionally banded together with other countries to fight against and it needs to stop. It will likely be generations before we undo the damage wrought by the last fifty years of our policies, but the best time to start is now.

 

Hugs!

[KayC]

Wow!  this thread got really political, REALLY fast.  Its obvious just being Trans does not necessarily align us with a political party.  But I do know who I can trust on these issues.  Its pretty clear.

wrt Taxes.  I pay a LOT of taxes every year (way more than the current occupant of the White House) and I truly don't mind.  I understand that my (our) income comes from the collective resources of our society.  I don't mind returning my fair share.

 

Nobody actually MAKES their own money .. it comes from other peoples' pockets.  So, those making more than $400K a year can afford to pay more taxes and I guarantee you it will not affect their quality of life.  (and they can also afford to pay more into Medicare and Social Security too).  When everybody in the society benefits, the rich benefit also.  They just don't seem to understand that.

I am more concerned about what our taxes are used for ... that's worth deciding who to vote for.

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, KayC said:

Nobody actually MAKES their own money

 

Well, counterfeiters...

 

I completely agree though. We need those taxes invested into America's people, her infrastructure and her quality of life.

 

Also, we ARE in the politics section of the forum. I'd expect it to get political in here.

 

Hugs!  

[KayC]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

we ARE in the politics section of the forum. I'd expect it to get political in here.

HAH! ? so we are, Jackie.  Thank you for pointing that out.  And I agree with your position on taking care of everybody.

Hugs back❣️

[Ivy]

I doubt that anyone enjoys paying taxes.  But most folks do enjoy decent roads and the rest of the infrastructure that enable us to function as a society.  These things are also necessary for businesses to operate and prosper.  Elizabeth Warren pointed out that even the wealthy depend on these things to increase their wealth.  A factory cannot function without the working class, why is it too much to expect them to have secure lives?

I personally don't expect much from a Biden administration.  But just a little less hostility would be nice.

We don't really have a progressive party in this country, only far right, and center-right.

Using the label "socialist" as a smear is useless as it can range from gulags to the Nordic Model".

And as a veteran, I am offended when it is implied that wanting to improve our country is unpatriotic.

 

Okay, my rant is over.

[Mia Marie]

Let me explain socialism to everyone. Socialism is where the government tells you how to live where you can live, what you can do, basically you will have no choices in life. A socialist government will set up what is called station and you will not be allowed to live outside of the station you are born to with the exception of certain circumstances with which the government allows you to move. Personally I don't need or want anyone making decisions for me in any way or form. You won't have the right to choose the field of work you want. You wouldn't be able to go into business without government permission and they would never let a new business open that endangers the finances of a large business already making millions. This would no longer be a free country where you would be able to walk down the street without fear. I don't need that kind of control nor would I ever want that kind of fear. I don't fear the way this country has been growing. A vote towards socialism is a step backwards. We need to grow in the right direction and we need a true voice, a transgender voice, in government seats. We need a transgender person in one or more government seats. Only then could we get heard. We don't need someone to make our choices for us.

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Mia Marie said:

We need to grow in the right direction and we need a true voice, a transgender voice, in government seats. We need a transgender person in one or more government seats. Only then could we get heard.

 

I agree with this part. We disagree about how we're going to reach our goal.

 

I'd like to introduce you to Rosemary Ketchum (Wheeling WV City Council), Pluto (Chair of Indiana Green Party) and Christopher Kalcich (Selinsgrove PA Borough Council). I agree that there should be some of us in the federal government as well, but hey, one step at a time. Politicians on the federal level usually get their start in local politics.

 

Socialism: A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

Nobody is advocating for this. People are advocating for more socialist programs. The goal here is to provide needs (housing, food, health care, education) to people that might not otherwise have it. Every American deserves to reach their full potential. People can still be rich, we just want people who were born poor to have a chance too. Nobody should have to choose between living indoors and buying medicine for their children.

 

What you're describing -

 

1 hour ago, Mia Marie said:

Socialism is where the government tells you how to live where you can live, what you can do, basically you will have no choices in life.

 

- Is actually Authoritarianism.

 

I will point out that there two forms of socialism. One (the Nazis) happens when you take things away from one group and give them to another. The other, (the one I'd like to see) happens when you try and lift everybody up regardless of the color of their skin or what's in their pants.

 

Authoritarian: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

 

It also happens to be the style of government practiced by some of the best buddies (North Korea, Russia, etc.) of our current ruling party. It's also part and parcel of our current system where the government bails out big businesses so they continue to stagnate and keep new, small businesses from sprouting up. It also helps concentrate money into the hands of people who are already very, very, very rich.

 

I would like to see that stop. Back in the 50's, we understood some things that we've seem to have forgotten. An average adult can work about forty hours a week before productivity starts to suffer, the number is closer to thirty if the job requires a lot of brain work. We understood that the CEO making about twenty times what the lowest paid worker in their company made was sustainable. Our education was top-notch. Most people could get a job with their high school diploma and work within that company for the rest of their lives. The company valued their workers, and helped to take care of them.

Civil rights was garbage back then, but we had worker's rights mostly figured out.

Now I'm not going to try and tell you anything, but I want you to think about who has been defunding the things that made that possible. Who is attacking the structures who made those worker's rights a thing. Now I want you to think about who made the advances in civil rights and who keeps patching the economy back together every eight years.

 

For my entire lifetime, there's been a repeating series of recessions. They happen about four years into the reign of one of our political parties. Every time. Then the other party gets into power, and just about gets everything running again. It's running worse, but it's headed in the right direction. The opposing party gets into power, claims credit for everything the previous party did and then promptly drives us off a cliff again.

For my entire lifetime, one party has had our military engaged in petty bully wars with tiny, weaker countries to further the interests of our big corporations.

For my entire (adult) lifetime, I've seen my tax dollars go to bail out failing corporations while the CEOs that drove it into the ground fail upwards.

 

This needs to stop. Both major parties are complicit, but only one of them has a faction within it that is saying, "No more." I stand with them.

 

Hugs!

[Mia Marie]

Jackie, did you forget the history of the cold war. Russia was a socialist country built on communist thinking. That is where this country will be heading if Biden and Harris win. I do agree with your definitions but what is authoritarianism without socialism. One can't work without the other. Do you really think the rich will pay their fair share of taxes? I know they won't. If the rich were to pay all the taxes they really owed to the government they could move the deficit out of the trillions down into the millions. The plan Biden has proposed which would make the rich pay more taxes will never see the light of day. Non of the taxes collected will become social nor physical country improvements. They will be used to line their own pockets. Always have and always will.

[Jackie C.]

I'm thinking that a communist country like the old USSR fell down the same rabbit hole that the US did. The critical problem with Marxist communism has always been the part where the ruling party steps back and just lets the workers do their thing. That never happened because, well obviously. The democratic component was never considered. There was one party. Period. That party worked to enrich itself at the expense of its people. The result was bread lines.

Democracy makes the difference. The quality of life in Europe where democratic socialism is currently working is better than ours on all levels. Better education. Better healthcare. Better security. Happier citizens. Nobody's perfect, but a blended approach seems to be working for other people. It seems like a good idea to try. We'll need our own take on it, but we should be able to build a society that works for everybody if we want it. I want it. Do you?

 

I'm pretty sure the rich won't pay their fair share actually. They're pretty good at hiding money and there are too many people in government at the federal level that want to hide their own money too. I'm going to ask you a question though. If the rich weren't concerned with higher taxes, why are they fighting it? I think that with appropriate leadership and funding for our institutions' (like the chronically underfunded IRS) we can reduce the amount the very rich hide away and smuggle out of the country. No tax system is going to be perfect. The one we have now is killing the middle class and the younger generations. I refuse to sit by and say, "Why bother," because I know that a segment of the population is going to cheat. That's why we have laws and law enforcement. It is your duty as an American to use what power you have to make the country better.

 

1 hour ago, Mia Marie said:

The plan Biden has proposed which would make the rich pay more taxes will never see the light of day. Non of the taxes collected will become social nor physical country improvements. They will be used to line their own pockets. Always have and always will.

 

Bad faith argument. "Things suck and they've always sucked so don't try." Yeah, we have a real corruption problem in the federal government. That doesn't mean that all politicians are corrupt. Some absolutely are. I can name names, but I think we all know who they are at this point. Do I think Biden is beyond it? No. I think unless there's a huge blue wave he's not going to be able to get half the things he wants done. Mostly because I've seen it before. The opposition party blocked Obama for his entire second term because they could. Joe is too interested in reaching across the isle when the people across the isle have repeatedly shown that they're not willing to compromise on lining their own pockets.

 

Again, one side has shown that they REALLY want to be the Communist party we remember from the 80's. I don't want them to seize power. They're really close right now. So please, vote. I'm going to end on a song...

 

 

Hugs!

 

 

[Ivy]

I listened to this awhile ago and still can't stop the waterworks.

I raised 8 kids of my own.

 

 

[Ivy]

What the hell are we doing?