Cisgender/Non binary/Androgyne/Genderfluid. Am I overthinking it?

[Aleix]

Hi everyone!  
First of all, I´m sorry about my English.  I´ll try my best to express myself in the clearest way I can.
And, I apologice in advance for the very long post, and, also in case I might say something that may be wrong or offensive. I hope not, but if I do, for sure it´s not intended. 
My only goal it´s trying to understand myslef and the world around me better. If I do/say something wrong, please tell me. 

I also want to thank u for building this "cozy" and open place, because I´m not an usually online-social-forum-friendly person.

I´ve been reading some people´s posts trying to find some similar problems, or documentary recommendations, and, while I found some people with ,what I think are, similar issues, I still have a lot of doubts. So, I decided to still making this post. I´m sorry again if I should have done a better research by myself.

 

I´m also aware than my issues may be not as "important" as other people here are, and I don´t want, by any means, to compare my problems with nobody´s problems.

 

The main point is, that I need help on better undertanding non-binary gender. As lately, I realised, that I didn´t trully know what identifying yourself as non-binary was, and now, after reading some info, (starting with the proper definition of gender xD), I´ve started seeing some similarities between them and some scenarios that have been happening to me.

And, when I came up with the terms "androgyne", and "genderfluid", things became a bit too confusing.  Which lead to me writing this, asking for help on the matter.

 

Is not that I suddently feel an urge to put a label on everyone on the planet, but, I don´t want to wrongly assume things. Mainly ,beacause I´ve been told more than once than tend to I overthink (and I half agree xD)

 

I`m a 30 year old cisgender maler, who dresses and acts, more less, what I can considered until now to be, "more apparently cisgender male average". 
I, usually in my free time, wear kind of "unisex" clothes (shirt, jeans, vans), have a beard, short hair, and had not problem so far identifying myslef as cisgender male. 
Or, at least, I´ve considered myself this way my whole life, and, that´s kind of part of the problem that I require your help with.
Because, I´ve been searching for answers for a while now, about some stuff that seems to happen with the way my brain works, and,  I´m getting into a point where I´m not sure about anything.

As I was raised by my mother alone, and, I also have a sister, wich I have a very good relationship with, and I  never had this "male" figure , while growing, I assumed that I just turned out more femenine than the,  what I consider to be, the average cisgender male. 

 

Now, after reading about gender, I don´t know where I must draw the "line" between, what maybe are just a male cisgender average guy tastes and problems (who is maybe overthinking, or overdramatizing things), or, non gender related role issues (like for example having a more or lees dominant or submissive personality than the other, or more or less empathy), and real facts that can make me think about beeing non-binary. 

 

So, I rather be cautious, and try asking first to people who know what they are talking about.

 

I do consider to have more feminine behaviours than my close male "average" cisgender acquaintances. This behaviours, made me think as a kid (14 maybe?), and several times over time, about myself beeing gay. So far , I´ve never been attracted to any male. And i think that if you look at me, and the way I overall behave, you wont say I´m  that much different than the "average cisgender male".
But, I´m also not sure, about how much about myself I´m hidding, and, how much of this hidding can be considered as "normal".

I also, sometimes do, wich I would call, "weird readings", of certain cisgender male-female typical social interactions.

And they can be silly ideas, about silly things, and easily explained as a matter of personalities, and,  just me overthinking again. But, a lot of times, I found myself questioning the way that me and everybody acts, in this gender behaviour related manner. 
And, I feel like, sometimes, I´m not good behaving in a way, what I percieve, as the way "male should behave" in certain scenarios, even wondering if in an another paralell universe I would have performed better as a woman. 
But, I do like beeing a man that likes woman, and all wich it implies, and I obvioulsy have no possible way on knowing how  beeing female "feels".

I don´t know what I´m talking about, I feel that my mind is a mess xD 

 

I have this same internal "debates" in the daily basis normal enviroment, with love unrelated stuff, that, all togheter, can make me feel so out of place in certain moments.
And, even feel little despice, towards males for beeing too "manly" in his behaviour, and, same for woman beeing too "femenine", if that makes some kind of sense. 

 

For me, sometimes, they seem like they don´t know how to act the way I would call "normal", obviously, because isn´t "that normal" for anyone else. xD

 

I have issues about having to "forcefully" assume certain roles, and, I hate and usually have debates about the usuall media representation of love, relationships, and again, wich I consider to be, gender expected behaviours.

 

I, also kind of been having a little trouble about my female "ideal of beauty", as, I don´t seem to generaly like better a woman with a dress, makeup and high heels, and, I even dislike it sometimes, and, see it as kind of "excessive" ,and unnecessary, and, even can "turn me off" at some point. And, sometimes, with my partners, I am afraid that if I told her the truth,( that I prefer her in trousers and shirt), she might feel offended, or even make her feel "ugly". Or, I feel like, I´m questioning his feminity.And I don´t mean to emotionally harm anybody. 
I find this embarrasing to tell but, I usually "fix" the situation with a: "I found you the most beautiful in the morning", as I trully usually like her more while wearing pijama xD
So, by doing this, I have not "lied" to her, but I still feel like an a***ole.
Beacuse, of course I found her beautifull, but, the way she usually likes to "enhance" herself, overall I trully don´t consider an "enhancement" from the usual "normal" look, so I think 
she sometimes may feel not as loved, and reasured about his beauty or feminity, as she should have, or as much as I would like to

 

But again, I until now, assumed all this stuff were just about a personal preference and tastes, as I know a lot of cisgender males that prefer woman with short hair, or are also
shy, and have trouble talking to woman, and that kind of stuff. But, I don´t consider myself "shy" per se, maybe a little, but I think I´m kind of able to manage it, and make it less "obvious" than other people.So it doesn´t keep me that much for beeing able to try to get closer the person I want to be with. Rather, what is stopping me, is picturing myself performing some expected role behaviour that I don´t know if I´m comfotable with, or feels somehow "unfair" and, also, maybe I´m pretending to be something I´m not, just to be with the person I want, and doing so, trying to fullfil,  what I see as, her expectations on me.
 
Like, I´m not good enought beeing myself, but I´m also not comfortable about projecting an image of myself that I don´t know if is "true", because doing so, I´m also lying to the person I am "supossed" to love, and "supposedly" had intimacy enought with to talk about this things. 

And, I had always this constant "internal debate" (it can´t trully be a debate when it´s just me making nonsense xD) about all this little things, wich lately is making me not beeing able to enjoy becoming closer to the person I want to be with, or even try meeting someone new, because, it seems so exhausting sometimes. 

 

And again, after reading about beeing non-binary, don´t know where to "draw the line" between: different than average tastes, and personality preferences, or people compatibilty, and, beeing or not, cisgender related.

And, I rather stop here, before I start throwing you more and more of my perssonal issues.

Again, I don´t know if it´s ok just coming here babbling about all this, and asking for help, but, the only person which I was confident enough about talking about this, was my sister, and she knows even less than me about the matter. She even heared the term "non-binary" before. 

 

I also have in mind that maybe I should directly seek proffesional guidance with a psychologist. I´m already thinking on it But, as they seem kind off expensive for me right now, I thought it was worth try asking here before  

So, if it´s ok to ask, I would be more than thankfull if someone here can advice me about wich questions should I ask myself in order to get proper answers.
 

[TommieAnne]

Hi Aleix!

I'm sure someone smarter and more knowledgeable than I will give you some insight, but I wanted to welcome you to the forums.

In my experience gender fluid or non-binary has been a good description for a large portion of my life: I was "convinced" I was cis-male, then drifted into a sort of bisexual role before finally opening the closed doors to my heart and inner self to let the female inside me out.

It's taken years of therapy to understand myself.

I'm now on hormones and consider myself female.

Gender and sex are more complex than ticking a simple box. The physical sex one is born with may not match the mental or emotional gender identity one feels. Gender expression is how one feels comfortable acting versus how one conforms to gender roles and those can also not match each other. Gender roles are social constructs so it's possible to be out of step within your society but still not be abnormal even if one violates social rules. 

A good therapist that specializes in gender therapy is a very good place to start.

Hugs,

TA

[MiloR]

Hi Aleix, and welcome !

It seems like you have a lot of things to unpack and I would say, yes, consider therapy if you think it might help you sort all those ideas. I'll let someone who knows better than me tell you if you can find therapists who are cheaper or not too expensive around you because I'm personnally not well-informed on this.

First I would advise you to take a deep relaxing breath. You perfectly have the right to ask questions, and have issues of your own, and people are here to help each other. No question is a "stupid" question and gender issues are complex. You are entitled to feel the way you feel and ask stuff just as anyone else, and no research is required to have the right to be asking for help either. Everything's fine !

Okay, so there is a lot of stuff in what you say and I'm not very far in my questioning journey, but I'll tell you anything that I think might help.

First of all, know that you don't have to conform to any gender stereotypes to be a "real man" or a "real woman". You can totally be okay with the gender you were assigned at birth and not conforming to gender stereotypes either. And even if you didn't feel comfortable with your assigned gender and felt like keeping some stuff that you consider masculine it would be perfectly okay too. And you don't have to find a label. Or anything. You can just be you. I know labelling feels less scary sometimes because it enables us to put a clear word on what we are feeling, but it's not something that you have to come up with overnight or at all, promise. The important thing is to feel like you're yourself, and I think that's what most of us here are trying to achieve.

Also, I think gender identities and sexual orientations are truly not the same things. For myself, I'm still questioning my gender identity but it doesn't change anything on who I might fall in love with. And being feminine does not make people gay, even if some gay men like to play with the stereotype, and that's okay too. I don't understand where that stereotype comes from, to be honest. So, you can totally keep liking women if you like women, and be you all the same.

Also, yes, most of us are taught to express gender in the beginning from the way we were educated and the gender we were assigned at birth and sometimes people feel okay with it, and sometimes not. And it's fine, even if the second one feels more scary, I think a lot of us achieve a better understanding of ourselves in the end. Also, a lot of women like to wear make-up and nice dresses and high heels just because it's part of their personality and not because they want to please men or conform or whatever. I'm definitely not like them, but what I'm trying to say is that if your girlfriend likes to dress that way she probably does not deem it "necessary", but rather enjoys it.

What I would tell you is take slow steps. Maybe try stuff you feel like you've always wanted to try, slowly, and see how you feel. And if you feel that what you've tried doesn't suit you, then that's also good. Experimenting is not adopting stuff forever. The question is to find a way to express yourself in a manner that makes you feel comfortable. And you have plenty of time to do that, and if you have questions along the way, a lot of people here will be happy to answer.

 

Milo

[Gabriel]

Bones Aleix,

 

welcome  . You'll find amazing people here with a lot of experience that can help you.

Again, I'm not the most qualified to offer guidance. But I do know how confusing it is to question your gender identity when things doesn't seem to add up.

 

Truth is, every thing you say is true. Everything you feel can either be explained in a gender identity related way, or have other explanations. Our head is great at messing with us. 

 

What I would point out to put a bit of order would be:

 

1. It seems like there is quite a lot of anxiety around gender roles and gender expectations.

2. It seems like you are trying to fit in without completely finding a comfortable place.

3. You can totally have a feminine side and identify as a cis man.

4. Your tastes and preferences about women are totally fine just because they are yours, and have nothing to do with how you feel about your gender identity. You can totally set that aside from your gender identity exploration. Unless you'd prefer (or you fantasize about) being with them as a woman or non binary yourself.

 

With all that said, maybe the question is What do you want? If there were no consequences and you knew you wouldn't lose anything nor anyone, who would you want to be? If there were no expectations from anyone, how would you like to be and behave? What would make you feel alive? Listen to your desires.

 

If it is of any help, I began my journey believing I was genderfluid. It lasted just a few weeks. Then I spend some time exploring non binary identities. The more I let myself peek behind the courtain, the more I discovered what I had been hiding from myself. Now I identify as transmasculine and I realise that I have always been, but self doubt is still playing its number on me. It is normal, though, it comes with the journey.

 

Breathe deep because this is such a trip. But it is worth it. No matter where you land you will know more about yourself. 

 

If you have a chance, work with a gender therapist. It will make a huge difference.

 

 

[Aleix]

Hi again! 
Sorry if it took me a long time to reply,  I had a busy few days. :S 
I also had to rewrite this, and read all your answers a few times beacuse, "gender" it´s feeling like a more and more "broad term". It even feels kind of scary to be honest.
And, thank u all for your answers, warm welcomes, and for sharing with me a bit of your experience, helps a lot 

 

Also, you summarized and explained some of my thoughts better than myself, like:

- Me feeling a bit anxious when I´m trying to talk about this things.
- And, that right now, It´s quite hard to me to tell what I want, or what I feel, at some levels so, I probably mixing things up, between sexuall prefences, "average" personal tastes, gender identities and gender roles.

 

I consider myself a moreless reasonable "logic", or decently "smart" person. But, in the "self-emotinal awareness" department I sometimes feel very dumb.
Beacuse, right now, the question you all told me to ask myself. What do you want? I feel that I can´t answer it.

.

And,  I´m reading something, and I think "ok I got it". Then, later, I´m reading something else and I realise that "Nope, I didn´t", and having to reconsider everything again xD

But I´ll keep reading and searching for more info.

 

On the therapy matter. I found several options, but I´m unsure. 
(The one looked better so far in quality/price according to people´s reviews was therapychat. Also, a lot of them request a minimum of sessions, and I want to be sure about beeing the thing I need before I commit with one.)

 

So, I´m maybe going to wait a few months until christmas hollidays are over. And if can´t come with any personal "enlightment" during that time, then I´ll try with a gender specific therapist.
 
And, as I think that, besides the proffesional guidance, all  you´r advices are very similar: to me to chill, take some breath, and just ask myself slowly what I want. I´ll try to chill myself a little 

 

And again, thank u all a lot for you friendliness!

 

[TommieAnne]

Well, it's not a race. You can take your time.

It's also not something where you have to pick a direction and are forced to stay with it (exception being certain medical procedures would be difficult to reverse), so as you sort these things out in your heart and your head, different things may suit you in different ways.

Think of it as trying on shoes!

Hugs,

TA

[Gabriel]

 

Hi Aleix,

 

On 11/10/2020 at 2:09 PM, Aleix said:

Beacuse, right now, the question you all told me to ask myself. What do you want? I feel that I can´t answer it.

 

That is actually pretty normal. What you really want is buried under tons of doubts and probably as many fears.

Good news is you don't have to worry because your truth won't go away, so you can take it one step at a time, breathe, and work at your own pace and when it is the right time for you.

 

It'll be great if you can find a therapyst. You'll find lots of amazing people here that can help you too.

[Lee H]

Hi Aleix

First, you fit in here just fine. Thanks for joining us, and for sharing.

I'm old as dirt, 76, but I'm only in my 2d month of Male to Female [MtF] HRT, still on a lower than normal dose of Estrdiol, so consider the source. Having said that, I've got some reactions to your share.

 

First, this,

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

(starting with the proper definition of gender xD), I´ve started seeing some similarities between them and some scenarios that have been happening to me.

And, when I came up with the terms "androgyne", and "genderfluid", things became a bit too confusing. 

...and this:

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

Is not that I suddently feel an urge to put a label on everyone on the planet, but, I don´t want to wrongly assume things. Mainly ,beacause I´ve been told more than once than tend to I overthink (and I half agree xD)

...lead me to ask, do you think maybe rather than your fitting into a definition, you might try fitting into yourself, then finding a definition that fits -- or not. Ultimately, I think we each are our own definition.

This is rather an obscure way of saying, "I recently started with a Gender Therapist, and I think her treatment is starting with helping me discover who I want to be, not which definition I fit into. Ie, to find my own identity. Several times she has said, "everyone transitions in their own way, finds their own identity." That notion also is a theme on TransPulse. We are ok, just as we are; we don't need to strive to fit anyone else's definition of "people like us", or assume any role because others expect "people like us" to "act that way."

I am most definitely a work in progress, and I have a long way to go to become comfortable in my own skin, but I think that the changes wrought by HRT will be incidental compared to the changes wrought in my impression of myself. The journey for me will be to become the person who I want to be, free of definitional role expectations. I think I'm starting on the path to becoming my own definition. Becoming my own tautology is my goal.

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

I´ve been searching for answers for a while now, about some stuff that seems to happen with the way my brain works, and,  I´m getting into a point where I´m not sure about anything.

It's your brain -- it works fine for you. [I'm assuming neither of us has a diagnosis from DSM-V] I think our goal is to become self-confident and happy that we get to have a brain that works the way our brains work.

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

I assumed that I just turned out more femenine than the,  what I consider to be, the average cisgender male. 

Sounds like you like being more feminine. I know I do.

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

And, I feel like, sometimes, I´m not good behaving in a way, what I percieve, as the way "male should behave" in certain scenarios, even wondering if in an another paralell universe I would have performed better as a woman. 

Maybe this is that parallel universe. It could be for both of us, but I won't ever be able to "perform better as a woman." Better than who? How about "perform better as the person I want to be."
But, I do like beeing a man that likes woman, and all wich it implies, and I obvioulsy have no possible way on knowing how  beeing female "feels".

I don´t know what I´m talking about, I feel that my mind is a mess xD

Me too. If I could fully transition as far as medical science could take me, and somehow magically become a young woman, I'd be a lesbian. I love everything about women, every part, every scent, every multiple climax. [BTW, HRT seems to be moving me in that direction. Yummie.]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

Rather, what is stopping me, is picturing myself performing some expected role behaviour that I don´t know if I´m comfotable with, or feels somehow "unfair" and, also, maybe I´m pretending to be something I´m not, just to be with the person I want, and doing so, trying to fullfil,  what I see as, her expectations on me.

It sounds like you have a partner who is willing to allow you to become the person you want to be, your authentic self, free of the pretense of trying to fit into any role expectations. I hope so. She will be a treasure beyond measure. Love her. I wish I could find someone.

On 11/6/2020 at 3:01 AM, Aleix said:

I also have in mind that maybe I should directly seek proffesional guidance with a psychologist.

Yeah. Almost every person in transition on this site advocates therapy from a person knowledgeable in Gender Therapy as such. Not every shrink is -- it's a new and evolving field.

 

Again, Aleix, worry not about whether you fit into this forum. You do.  For certain, and beyond all doubt. And I'm glad you're here.

 

~~Here's a great big welcoming hug, from Lee~~

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Lee H said:

I recently started with a Gender Therapist, and I think her treatment is starting with helping me discover who I want to be, not which definition I fit into. Ie, to find my own identity. Several times she has said, "everyone transitions in their own way, finds their own identity." That notion also is a theme on TransPulse. We are ok, just as we are; we don't need to strive to fit anyone else's definition of "people like us", or assume any role because others expect "people like us" to "act that way."

True this.

1 hour ago, Lee H said:

Again, Aleix, worry not about whether you fit into this forum. You do.  For certain, and beyond all doubt. And I'm glad you're here.

And I say the same.

Welcome Aleix

[Astrid]

On 11/10/2020 at 8:09 AM, Aleix said:

And,  I´m reading something, and I think "ok I got it". Then, later, I´m reading something else and I realise that "Nope, I didn´t", and having to reconsider everything again xD

But I´ll keep reading and searching for more info.

Here's a book that was important to me, and that I've recommended to several others here.  It contains exercises you can complete to get a better handle on your gender identity.  It was very helpful in sorting through the myriad gender identities and how I might or might not fit.

 

How to Understand Your Gender: A Practical Guide for Exploring Who You Are

Alex Iantaffi and Meg-John Barker

 

Best wishes,

 

Astrid

[TommieAnne]

18 hours ago, Gabriel said:

 

Hi Aleix,

 

 

That is actually pretty normal. What you really want is buried under tons of doubts and probably as many fears.

Good news is you don't have to worry because your truth won't go away, so you can take it one step at a time, breathe, and work at your own pace and when it is the right time for you.

 

It'll be great if you can find a therapyst. You'll find lots of amazing people here that can help you too.

That's anot excellent answer.

TA

[TommieAnne]

1 hour ago, TommieAnne said:

That's anot excellent answer.

TA

An excellent answer.

Autocorrect is biting my ankles today.