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Lack of Research Into HRT and GAS in General and Especially HRT and GAS for Nonbinary/Nonconforming Outcomes


MayGay

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While research on the standard masculinizing and feminizing HRT and related subjects is sorely lacking, anything more specific than try to tailor HRT to nonbinary people's needs is virtually nonexistent.

 

And aside from microdosing and blockers only I can't find any published articles that have any other options. And there is literally nothing past a vague description of what will probably happen with no information as to how much or to what extent. Or anything on how to reach different goals.

 

HRT is currently my biggest concern, but there's also gender affirming surgeries that are more understood but also still very basic and in their infancy. They basically more or less using the same techniques as the standard surgeries but this leaves them limited to things like having to deal with limited space, materials, and an inability to do some things that I now know I'm not the only person who's asked for is either probably unsafe or just can't be done. And while surgeons are always working to perfect current techniques, as far as I can tell nothing is being done to address these shortcomings or develop new techniques that are more suited to nonbinary/nonconforming surgery outcomes.

 

Not only in the techniques for stuff like this, there's really not much information on what goals a lot of people who want nonbinary/nonconforming transitions or what outcomes they want Or even how many people may want nonbinary/nonconforming transitions.

 

What I have seen is some theoretical and DIY experimental forms of HRT being discussed in the nonbinary community, but no mention of it in any medical journal, not even theoretical, on paper research based on knowledge we already have. As an note I have not done an extensive search of this in the literature specifically as they are always intended to achieve an outcome other than my desired outcome, and often intended to prevent my desired outcome.

 

So, I am wondering how we can work to have research done on these subjects to better help people who have nonbinary/nonconforming transitions reach their desired outcomes. I've asked my doctor and endo about this but haven't got back yet. And I'm just a pleb on the internet and the best I could do is probably get minimal community involvement on what goals and outcomes people want.

 

How can we get the medical community at large more involved in properly researching all forms of transition and their mechanisms? And really, not just for nonbinary/nonconforming transitions but even the standard transmasc/transfem transitions because there isn't really anything for that past the extreme basics so far as I can find either. Dr. Will Powers is doing some clinical research on how to optimize femininizing HRT but it's experimental and the overall mechanisms behind transition are not understood, only the general outcome. And of course if we had a better understanding of the mechanisms then we could optimize and tailor everyone's transitions to their desired outcomes.

 

There is a lot of information on how the like AGAB puberties work and how hormones interact after that, and stuff like giving postmenopausal women HRT, estradiol and progesterone that many clinicians will reference. But nothing on trans people specifically. And many of the sources clinicians will cite regarding progesterone both seem to make conclusions that are different from the outcomes of people who take take it have, cite the articles on pre/peri/post menopausal cis women, are contradicted by that one study done by a clinician in Vancouver, or were conducted using older synthetic forms of progesterone that aren't micronized bioidentical progesterone. By micronized bioidentical progesterone I mean the hormone P4, not related progestins like depot medroxyprogesterone acetate aka Provera that are not progesterone. Basically, WPATH still using studies from people taking things like Provera and saying it's not recommended is the same as them saying it's not recommended to take the various forms of estradiol because various forms of synthetic estrogens that aren't E2 like diethylstilbestrol or conjugated estrogens would not only be ineffective, but also potentially harmful. In other words stuff like Provera and the long list of other birth control progestins that aren't P4 are going to be as ineffective as the very long list of estrogens used for birth control that aren't E1.

 

Moreover, we have little to no information on what role if any the other natural estrogens, androgens, and progestins other than E2, P4, and testosterone play in feminization and masculinization through HRT. The biggest example is estrone sulfate, E1S, which may have a role in femininization as proposed by Dr. Will Powers. There are other forms of these hormones and they are largely ignored for the purposes of HRT. The truth is that we don't know whether or not they have any role in transition or puberty.

 

Maybe some of this can finally put any argument against transfem people participating in women's sports other than transfem people are icky to rest. They never consider the effect of progesterone on bone density in cis women is something people refuse to even consider, only testosterone and estradiol.

 

Finally, I have had discussions with people who seem knowledgeable in these subjects. I don't always know their credentials but when I look to confirm the information they give me, it's always correct. But whenever I talk to them about it, they give their basic knowledge about how some things work and then say they have no idea about what the outcome of various forms of more experimental forms of HRT will be. They make predictions but again, we just don't know. And some of these may or may not be dangerous.

 

As an extra little note, I use nonbinary/nonconforming because I used to use nonbinary then someone came to me and said it doesn't need to be nonbinary because binary trans women can access it too. My surgeon uses nonconforming on her website, but to me my surgery is conforming to my nonbinary genders so it isn't nonconforming. Thus I use both.

 

So how can we prod the medical community to do more research on transitions as a whole? Like the whole thing.

Edited by VickySGV
Recommendation of unreviewed medical research.
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4 hours ago, MayGay said:

So, I am wondering how we can work to have research done on these subjects to better help people who have nonbinary/nonconforming transitions reach their desired outcomes. I've asked my doctor and endo about this but haven't got back yet. And I'm just a pleb on the internet and the best I could do is probably get minimal community involvement on what goals and outcomes people want.

 

Although not my field here at all my professional experience with medical research was that many professionals in limited fields tend to have  personal or otherwise direct interest in what they are researching (this is maybe automatic). For instance, more to my background, a good number of prominent figures in the provision of equipment for disability services have had a very close relationship with the subject, like a disabled close family member etc, and had strong reason to try to help with their problems.

 

This is perhaps less so with trans related issues (maybe?), but what you are wondering is related to a very small subset of the field. As such it may be that you youself, as you are partly doing here, may be one of few people doing any research. Are you in any position to advance this professionally, either now or in the future? From my experience, either rightly or wrongly, but I understand why, professional circles are somewhat 'closed shops' to someone without qualifications. You will need some background to readily influence scientific progress to any extent. This may not have to be paper qualifications but would need to show good experience in the field. If you get my meaning, in my opinion, a low application field is not mainstream enough for general work so unlikely to attract the interest of research.

 

Tracy

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Like I said I'm just a pleb on the internet. An unemployed disabled pleb to boot. Yeah I want to go into nursing to get my RN so I can advance things. But I don't even know if I'm going to be able to get in, actually manage to pass a semester let alone graduate, or if it's even a good idea to try. Suffice it to say that past attempts pretty much resulted in disaster for me. And I don't know if having the drive to do it is going to be enough. I'm also admittedly probably not suited for doing a lot of the research myself. I have an engineering mindset, and I can utilize knowledge we already have to figure out how to solve those problems if it's something I understand and am interested in or I really need to. And I could probably dig really deep into the literature in order to get the information to put something on paper assuming we know what all or most of the hormones actually do, but like that's very different from actually running experiments and recording data, running it through statistics and stuff. I'm legit bad at all of that. I'm not always as good at the actual solving of problems, only finding good ways to solve them. And forget involving me with literally anything to do with any sort of surgery even if I didn't have a phobia of surgery it would still be a really bad idea lol. And I have no leadership skills whatsoever.

 

I'd probably be best suited working as a consultant to other healthcare professionals on how to help others transition especially if unexpected things happen, or if the person wants a nonbinary transition which is why I want to go into nursing in the first place. And I could probably do like a small number of clients directly as well.

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6 hours ago, tracy_j said:

but what you are wondering is related to a very small subset of the field

 

My speculation (which cannot be more than speculation, unfortunately) modifies the above statement to "but what you are wondering is related to a subset of the field whose numbers are not known".  At best, we can only speculate how many non-binary and non-genderconforming people there are compared to MtF and FtM transgender people. If you know of any scientifically valid surveys that help to answer that, I'd most definitely be interested.

 

With best wishes,

 

Astrid

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And feel that the ratio of binary to nonbinary people are getting closer to 1:1 all the time. And I know, well am dating, at least two other enbies who one wants something close to what I want, and the other would have wanted what some of the more interesting web forum paper endocrinology is trying to achieve.

 

And I'm open about my transition goals and what I want my outcome to be on social media and like a lot of people come to me who want similar things.

 

So yeah we're don't even know how many people who want various nonbinary/nonconforming transitions there are. And I think there are people out there who have never considered it's an option or knows it could be done like with my experience asking about the bottom surgery I want and someone stating they know about the surgeon I'm going to but didn't know of the existence of or that Dr. Wittenberg does nonbinary/nonconforming surgeries when she openly advertises she does them on her clinic's website with pictures.

 

So yeah there's just literally no data on the various ways nonbinary/nonconforming transitions could be done and how many people want them in general. And like not just nonbinary transitions, but there are only a few doctors trying to understand or optimize like the normal transfem and transmasc HRT methods too.

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One of the complicating factors (and related to your point about the lack of support for non-support of non-binary/non-conforming folks), in my opinion, is that there is far more variability in the goals/outcomes that non-binary and non-conforming folks are seeking.  It's almost seems to be the case that NB/NGC folks are unique, each one finding their own place on the gender spectrum, appearance and clothing choices, etc.   But there isn't a goal of "passing" as M or F, per se.  It's more about reaching a state where they (read: me!) are comfortable with how they present publicly, and being comfortable with not trying to be 100% female or male.

 

There are certainly some commonalities with MtF and FtM folks, to be sure -- among them dysphoria, hair concerns, whether to do HRT, and whether and what kind of surgeries to perform.  

 

For me, this continues to be a journey more than a destination.  I never stayed static in my life choices/appearance before I came out, and I have no intention of doing so now, either. Based on what I'm experiencing and (very important) how well I'm communicating and working together with my spouse, where I thought I was going earlier can change.  A case in point currently for me is HRT. After I started estradiol 13 months ago, my personal goals and what I feel comfortable with in public have definitely changed.  I've had these months to adapt, reflect, and talk over how I'm physically changing, but I'm mentally changing as well -- much more accepting and comfortable with my physical changes. I'm as excited about having a waist as much as I am about having a bust, for example.  Both are modest at this point, but for me, that's fine.

 

Onward, and with best wishes,

 

Astrid

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Yeah I agree 100%. That's one of the reasons I included simply learning more about the mechanisms behind the standard transmasc and transfem HRT. If we understand what's going on better not only can we optimize things for people who want more typical outcomes, but we can better tailor things to people who want atypical outcomes because we know exactly how everything is interacting.

 

And yeah for the second part of your reply I have been doing a lot of like deep introspection on things. I was going to put it in the nonbinary forum, but it really got so long I made it a blog on the site instead.

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18 hours ago, Astrid said:

 

My speculation (which cannot be more than speculation, unfortunately) modifies the above statement to "but what you are wondering is related to a subset of the field whose numbers are not known".  At best, we can only speculate how many non-binary and non-genderconforming people there are compared to MtF and FtM transgender people. If you know of any scientifically valid surveys that help to answer that, I'd most definitely be interested.

 

With best wishes,

 

Astrid

I must admit that I was making a bit of an assumption here, which I now realise. It does probably highlight that research needs to be done but, unlike the better known MTF and FTM transitions exactly where this would fit into social structure is vague to me. Re-reading this has cleared my mind a bit and I think that there may well be research about on partial transition (MTF and FTM), but not something I have investigated. Quite a number of members here only partially transition so that may cover quite a bit of the field. My approach would be to go into professional circles of search rather than (but as well as) Google etc, which are sometimes limited.

 

10 hours ago, Astrid said:

 

For me, this continues to be a journey more than a destination.  I never stayed static in my life choices/appearance before I came out, and I have no intention of doing so now, either. Based on what I'm experiencing and (very important) how well I'm communicating and working together with my spouse, where I thought I was going earlier can change.  A case in point currently for me is HRT. After I started estradiol 13 months ago, my personal goals and what I feel comfortable with in public have definitely changed.  I've had these months to adapt, reflect, and talk over how I'm physically changing, but I'm mentally changing as well -- much more accepting and comfortable with my physical changes. I'm as excited about having a waist as much as I am about having a bust, for example.  Both are modest at this point, but for me, that's fine.

 

A good point to think about here. You only really have to look at shared experiences here to see that responses to HRT are very variable. A big point though is that hormones are very powerful. They affect the whole body, including the brain, so what  the goal was at the start of therapy will almost certainly be different, even if subtle, at a later point. This indicates to me that the subset I mention may need research in itself to define. It does appear difficult to predict a point to aim for because of the variability. We all change over time anyway. My feelings are that radical intervention will change things so the target will vary. This is the pointing to the research needed. I think that maybe much of that is there. It really needs someone who is well versed and qualified in the field to sift through and extract the relevant information. It is something I feel that does need a multidisciplinary approach though, physical/surgical, psychiatric and social fields being represented so a representative group would be far better.

 

I am confusing myself with the variables involved here but I hope you get some of my drift. Really I know little but question much.

 

Tracy

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  • 6 months later...

I'm interested in this. My goals seem so unrealistic to me that I feel like I'm waiting on new research to come through. I want to appear as female and not lose my strength. I want both parts and both working, not one or the other being useless. 

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@Astrid I enjoy hearing your perspective. Agreed - transition/expression goals are myriad and granular for enby folks. What's neat is as I read something you wrote, my brain changed it to: It's more about finding a state where they are read as "me!". This notion (I'm neither this nor that; I'm just me) spoke to me and further testifies to that variability. Likewise, my spouse's perspective plays into how I present. For example, my hair is pretty short (like a French pixie). The other day we were at a pool party. After swimming, I pushed it into a side part and spiked up the front. I thought it looked pretty dope. When we got home, I asked my spouse what he thought of my hair like that. He basically told me (not being mean at all, mind you) it was overly masculine and he liked it better how I usually style it. I was a little bummed, but if not parting my hair provides him greater pleasure, it's a small sacrifice to make. On the other hand, he's taken me on a couple shopping trips for men's shoes recently, and he thinks they look cool on me. I stopped wearing a bra and wear clothes that deaccentuate the chest. He doesn't care as long as the boobs are under there somewhere. Ostensibly, I don't see myself doing any sort of medical transition for a couple of reasons. (1) I live with chronic illness, so it's challenging enough to manage this body without introducing further variables. (2) My spouse and I are sexually incompatible because I am ace (asexual). Therefore, physical intimacy between us is more subtle and nuanced, and as my spouse likes the feminine features of my body, I feel keeping stuff "as is" is a mercy towards him. So, as I explore my gender, any transition I've undergone thus far is realized via grooming, fashion, personality integration (e.g. surrendering self-consciousness, gaining confidence, discovering what kind of person I am, etc.), mind-body connection (e.g. surrendering disingenuous feminine affectations I had adopted to seem "normal", becoming aware of something I just coined as "social proprioception": how one takes up space in any given social setting, etc.). Having said all that, I am also intrigued by further research into HRT microdosing/blocking. For one, I've heard from transmasc folks & trans men on a FB page for queer folks who have the chronic condition I have (Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome) that having started T, they experienced some relief from chronic pain. Moreover, due to illness, I can no longer engage in body building which has been my favorite form of fitness. It's possible some T could help to mitigate deconditioning as I endeavor to discover a kinder gentler exercise program for myself. And who knows whether tailored HRT might be an elixir to alleviate some anxiety caused by dysmorphia/dysphoria. It doesn't seem out of the question. I took micro doses of prescription T as one of many measures to try to "fix" my sexuality before realizing I'm ace and not broken, but I don't believe those doses were substantial enough to be considered HRT for any level of gender transition - at any rate, I didn't feel better in any noticeable way taking it. On the other hand, I've also taken prescription HRT estradiol for gyn issues, and that made me feel much worse. Well, hopefully we'll know more as time progresses and pioneers do their pioneering. 

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@Vidanjalidisingenuous affectation I understand. That's been so relieving to let go of all the locks I put on my body to stiffen my wrists, walk with a lumbering hair, appear aggressive, hold my neck straight, don't move like that, or that, or that. The ability to put myself into my motions has been great. 

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7 hours ago, Alice_Sybilina said:

@Vidanjalidisingenuous affectation I understand. That's been so relieving to let go of all the locks I put on my body to stiffen my wrists, walk with a lumbering hair, appear aggressive, hold my neck straight, don't move like that, or that, or that. The ability to put myself into my motions has been great. 

 

I hear ya. As someone who has mobility issues and chronic pain, letting go of that kind of stuff has also provided me feedback on areas of the body where I had chronic clenching. It been astounding at times. 

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@VidanjaliFrom 2008 to 2019 I had a bulged disk and pinched nerve that eventually got ruptured by a chiropractor. I kept working until I actually crawled out of work. Worst pain of my life. My work insurance covered a spinal surgery though and I've been working out religiously ever since. I don't envy you that pain. I thought I was about done with anything related to moving gracefully for life. I hope you can find a solution to get past all that burden. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/7/2021 at 10:22 PM, MayGay said:

While research on the standard masculinizing and feminizing HRT and related subjects is sorely lacking, anything more specific than try to tailor HRT to nonbinary people's needs is virtually nonexistent.

 

And aside from microdosing and blockers only I can't find any published articles that have any other options. And there is literally nothing past a vague description of what will probably happen with no information as to how much or to what extent. Or anything on how to reach different goals.

 

HRT is currently my biggest concern, but there's also gender affirming surgeries that are more understood but also still very basic and in their infancy. They basically more or less using the same techniques as the standard surgeries but this leaves them limited to things like having to deal with limited space, materials, and an inability to do some things that I now know I'm not the only person who's asked for is either probably unsafe or just can't be done. And while surgeons are always working to perfect current techniques, as far as I can tell nothing is being done to address these shortcomings or develop new techniques that are more suited to nonbinary/nonconforming surgery outcomes.

 

Not only in the techniques for stuff like this, there's really not much information on what goals a lot of people who want nonbinary/nonconforming transitions or what outcomes they want Or even how many people may want nonbinary/nonconforming transitions.

 

What I have seen is some theoretical and DIY experimental forms of HRT being discussed in the nonbinary community, but no mention of it in any medical journal, not even theoretical, on paper research based on knowledge we already have. As an note I have not done an extensive search of this in the literature specifically as they are always intended to achieve an outcome other than my desired outcome, and often intended to prevent my desired outcome.

 

So, I am wondering how we can work to have research done on these subjects to better help people who have nonbinary/nonconforming transitions reach their desired outcomes. I've asked my doctor and endo about this but haven't got back yet. And I'm just a pleb on the internet and the best I could do is probably get minimal community involvement on what goals and outcomes people want.

 

How can we get the medical community at large more involved in properly researching all forms of transition and their mechanisms? And really, not just for nonbinary/nonconforming transitions but even the standard transmasc/transfem transitions because there isn't really anything for that past the extreme basics so far as I can find either. Dr. Will Powers is doing some clinical research on how to optimize femininizing HRT but it's experimental and the overall mechanisms behind transition are not understood, only the general outcome. And of course if we had a better understanding of the mechanisms then we could optimize and tailor everyone's transitions to their desired outcomes.

 

There is a lot of information on how the like AGAB puberties work and how hormones interact after that, and stuff like giving postmenopausal women HRT, estradiol and progesterone that many clinicians will reference. But nothing on trans people specifically. And many of the sources clinicians will cite regarding progesterone both seem to make conclusions that are different from the outcomes of people who take take it have, cite the articles on pre/peri/post menopausal cis women, are contradicted by that one study done by a clinician in Vancouver, or were conducted using older synthetic forms of progesterone that aren't micronized bioidentical progesterone. By micronized bioidentical progesterone I mean the hormone P4, not related progestins like depot medroxyprogesterone acetate aka Provera that are not progesterone. Basically, WPATH still using studies from people taking things like Provera and saying it's not recommended is the same as them saying it's not recommended to take the various forms of estradiol because various forms of synthetic estrogens that aren't E2 like diethylstilbestrol or conjugated estrogens would not only be ineffective, but also potentially harmful. In other words stuff like Provera and the long list of other birth control progestins that aren't P4 are going to be as ineffective as the very long list of estrogens used for birth control that aren't E1.

 

Moreover, we have little to no information on what role if any the other natural estrogens, androgens, and progestins other than E2, P4, and testosterone play in feminization and masculinization through HRT. The biggest example is estrone sulfate, E1S, which may have a role in femininization as proposed by Dr. Will Powers. There are other forms of these hormones and they are largely ignored for the purposes of HRT. The truth is that we don't know whether or not they have any role in transition or puberty.

 

Maybe some of this can finally put any argument against transfem people participating in women's sports other than transfem people are icky to rest. They never consider the effect of progesterone on bone density in cis women is something people refuse to even consider, only testosterone and estradiol.

 

Finally, I have had discussions with people who seem knowledgeable in these subjects. I don't always know their credentials but when I look to confirm the information they give me, it's always correct. But whenever I talk to them about it, they give their basic knowledge about how some things work and then say they have no idea about what the outcome of various forms of more experimental forms of HRT will be. They make predictions but again, we just don't know. And some of these may or may not be dangerous.

 

As an extra little note, I use nonbinary/nonconforming because I used to use nonbinary then someone came to me and said it doesn't need to be nonbinary because binary trans women can access it too. My surgeon uses nonconforming on her website, but to me my surgery is conforming to my nonbinary genders so it isn't nonconforming. Thus I use both.

 

So how can we prod the medical community to do more research on transitions as a whole? Like the whole thing.

Ignoring Will Powers is a good start.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/7/2021 at 11:22 PM, MayGay said:

While research on the standard masculinizing and feminizing HRT and related subjects is sorely lacking, anything more specific than try to tailor HRT to nonbinary people's needs is virtually nonexistent.

 

 

 

 

Your post covered a lot. Have you had and luck with Google Scholar?

 

I think it would take a lot of research to even begin to "science" it. The variable are many and complex. When you consider the chromosomal anomalies that occur in humans, how and why they react to HRT, age at the time HRT is given. There is a void in the research which makes treatment iffy. 

 

I think brain scans would be a place to start. I think a lot of data could be gleaned from a large library of brain scans. I think they could be a valuable tool for treatment. 

 

1. Are the brains of intergendered folks different than non intergendered folk.

 

2. Why are most AIS ladies attracted to the opposite sex?

 

3 How static or dynamic is the brain when it comes to gender and sexuality?

 

4. Why does HRT change some transfolks sexual orientation and not others?

 

Those questions alone would need teams of researchers. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/19/2021 at 1:09 PM, Vidanjali said:

I've also taken prescription HRT estradiol for gyn issues

Medical practice as a whole doesn't even know how to help post-menopausal women.  They prescribe estradiol without prescribing progesterone, just for starters.  To get back to a basic sex life, bringing the T up a little is useful.  I can tell you for sure, from my partner and her network of friends, this is not being addressed, even for very smart and educated women.

 

How are they expected to help us if they can't even help cis-women?

 

There is very little information on the mental effects.  If I am strictly honest and analytical, I'm likely bigender or have intersex wiring in my brain.  I can pretty thoroughly identify what HRT does for me, because a whole different part of myself lights up, but there's no way to prove it.  The me-that-is-me and is writing to you is just a ghost without the HRT.

 

Warmly,

Grace

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On 8/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, GraceH said:

 The me-that-is-me and is writing to you is just a ghost without the HRT.

 

That is remarkable. Thank goodness you're getting what you need to whatever extent you are. I was reflecting on what you said, @GraceH and I realized a couple things in retrospect. The gyn dr's approach to "fixing" the female reproductive cycle issues which were ailing me was to give me female hormones. (She did also want to have me on progesterone, but I refused because I had been prescribed P a few times as a young adult, and even at micro doses it made me feel completely wretched.) My body has been in perimenopause for about a decade, so it was always some new thing that dr was trying to keep after. What I realize now is that I was never asked what my treatment goals were. It was assumed that getting me back to "normal" female levels for a person my age was the obvious protocol. I have since given up seeing that dr and manage whatever symptoms I have as needed. And I do seem to be entering actual menopause on the earlier side of the bell curve. But, frankly I am totally fine with that. I realize there are some potential health issues one may incur with early menopause, but I've found with decreased female hormones some slight increase in accepting that I am currently inhabiting this body. Any relief is welcome. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, GraceH said:

Medical practice as a whole doesn't even know how to help post-menopausal women.  They prescribe estradiol without prescribing progesterone, just for starters.  To get back to a basic sex life, bringing the T up a little is useful.  I can tell you for sure, from my partner and her network of friends, this is not being addressed, even for very smart and educated women.

 

How are they expected to help us if they can't even help cis-women?

 

There is very little information on the mental effects.  If I am strictly honest and analytical, I'm likely bigender or have intersex wiring in my brain.  I can pretty thoroughly identify what HRT does for me, because a whole different part of myself lights up, but there's no way to prove it.  The me-that-is-me and is writing to you is just a ghost without the HRT.

 

Warmly,

Grace

 

High estrogen levels can cause big trouble. Blood clots is just one of them. When 6 XX females developed blood clots after receiving the J&J vaccine nobody reported and to whether they were on the pill. I bet they were.

 

I think XY women should have the same T levels as libidinous XX females. 

 

I have a F2M friend and after the first shot of T all the anxiety and fear vanished. Confidence soared.  Today this person looks manlier than most men. 

 

My transition will not involve surgery except for maybe a brow ridge reduction and some fat shot into my hips. The only T blocker I'd like to do is Avodart or Proscar that could cause fuller hair on the scalp, penis shrinkage and maybe some breast or nipple growth. I haven't looked into how much T one loses after having a testicle removed.

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On 9/1/2021 at 1:52 AM, Sometimes Chrissie said:

High estrogen levels can cause big trouble. Blood clots is just one of them.

But all those results are likely from treatment without progesterone and T.  That is why it borders on unethical to prescribe Estrogen without Progesterone.   As @Vidanjali noted, I bet women who go in for post-menopausal HRT are not asked what there goals are.  And many of the women would lie anyway, not mentioning that they would like their enjoyment of sex back.  Most complain about relief from host flashes, instead of saying, hey, can we roll back the clock in a healthy way?  How about the same profile of hormones as a 40 year old woman, but at lower levels,  etc.   It requires some experimentation to get things right.  Most doctors just want to look a number up in a book and prescribe something.  Forget about actually achieving a goal.  My opinion is that you have to take your care into your own hands.  If that's not the way your personality/mind works, find a circle of experts, instead of just one doctor who wants you out of his office as fast as possible.  Find a post-menopausal lesbian friend and start talking with her about it.  Find somebody to work with to solve your problem.  All of this goes for trans HRT too. 

 

On 9/1/2021 at 1:52 AM, Sometimes Chrissie said:

I have a F2M friend and after the first shot of T all the anxiety and fear vanished. Confidence soared.

Yup.   That's one benefit of T.  The ability to handle an abusive co-worker and not let it bother you.  Dish it back and not care if you hurt their feelings.  Less anxiety.  Less connection.  All I care about is more connection, but I understand the attraction of being centered in your own ego and not getting thrown out of your orbit by every comment made by others and by every internal criticism leveled at yourself.  Also, I'd love to hear about how he likes his new sex drive.

 

-- Grace.

 

 

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