Nikki Haley Says Biden's LGBTQ Rights Order is 'Attack on Women's Rights'

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nikki-haley-criticizes-biden-executive-order-transgender-athletics

 

 

The same old rubbish from the same old GOP.  She isn't fighting for women's rights, she's fighting for GOP power.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

A mind set that has given me headaches for years is why another person having rights cheapens your rights in the grand scheme of life.  Rights are not pieces of pie, they are pies for everyone.

 

[Jackie C.]

The TERF wars have begun! In the minds of some people, human rights are a zero-sum game. If I give you rights, then I have less rights. They're idiots, but that's how they think. Finally, it's high school sports. It doesn't really matter who plays on which team and if HRT is involved, a trans-woman (and it's always targeted at the trans-women) has the same advantages as a cis-woman who's going to excel at sports: Wider shoulders and narrower hips. Big flaming deal.

 

Honestly these people need to find a new hobby.

 

Hugs!

[KayC]

Their arguments are always incoherent and self-defeating.  When Tucker's guest (actually, being a guest on Tucker's show is self-defeating in itself) ... anyway, when Tucker's guest Selina Soule tires to defend women's rights by says "there are great biological differences between a man's body and a female body ... " she is just reinforcing the age-old mantra of why women shouldn't be allowed to do certain things (and what kept them out of organized sports for years).

 

If she wants to use the struggles females athletes have had to endure, then both guests should understand that trans-athletes face similar discrimination, and to be empathetic and offer solutions rather than just complaining "its not fair". 

Oh! And rather than having a debate, Tucker brings on two guests who say the same thing and its something that Tucker of course agrees with.  Brilliant ?

 

[Jackie C.]

4 hours ago, KayC said:

Their arguments are always incoherent and self-defeating.  When Tucker's guest (actually, being a guest on Tucker's show is self-defeating in itself) ... anyway, when Tucker's guest Selina Soule tires to defend women's rights by says "there are great biological differences between a man's body and a female body ... " she is just reinforcing the age-old mantra of why women shouldn't be allowed to do certain things (and what kept them out of organized sports for years).

 

If she wants to use the struggles females athletes have had to endure, then both guests should understand that trans-athletes face similar discrimination, and to be empathetic and offer solutions rather than just complaining "its not fair". 

Oh! And rather than having a debate, Tucker brings on two guests who say the same thing and its something that Tucker of course agrees with.  Brilliant ?

 

 

Well, when your whole argument boils down to, "Trans people are icky," you don't have a lot of options.

 

Hugs!

[Carolyn Marie]

Let's say that trans people make up 2 percent of the population.  A large school might have 1000 students, so out of that, 20 might be trans (a highly unlikely number.)  Maybe 13 might be girls.  Out of that, perhaps 1-2 would be out and proud; the rest, scared to death to tell anyone.  Maybe just one of those out girls would be a good athlete and participate in a competitive sport.  So for the sake of that one, you need a friggin law that "protects" all the other girls, and punishes that one trans girl.  And if you don't have that law, society will be ruined along with the lives of every cis-gen girl.

 

Mountains out of molehills, maybe?  Or perhaps just a great political strategy to win the hearts and minds of those who never met a trans person and never want to. Creating a "problem" out of whole cloth is a specialty of the right wing, who always, always, need an "other."

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

2 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

Or perhaps just a great political strategy to win the hearts and minds of those who never met a trans person and never want to.

 

In the Telethon for the Williams Institute at UCLA which my Chorus was featured in, they brought up the finding that 20% of the U.S. population have now knowingly met a Trans person.  Up a bit from 16% a couple of years ago.  Williams Institute is a think tank for the Trans and LGB populations' statistics and research compilations.  The "never want to"s are up against some pressure it seems. 

Don't get me going on the Scholarships For Sports stars thing.  Just don't.

[KayC]

21 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

Well, when your whole argument boils down to, "Trans people are icky," you don't have a lot of options.

That's SO funny!! (and the truth)

Hugs back, Jackie!

[Ivy]

21 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

Or perhaps just a great political strategy to win the hearts and minds of those who never met a trans person and never want to. Creating a "problem" out of whole cloth is a specialty of the right wing, who always, always, need an "other."

They need a villain.  If they don't have one they invent one.  Trans people (especially transwomen) are a convenient minority as most of their followers don't know any of us.  There is also a misogamistic underlying it all.  

[KymmieL]

An attack on Woman's rights, OOOOKKKKKK. She must be some kinda stupid. It is about giving trans people equal rights. I see more and more Gay and lesbian examples. Trans barely. I just wonder if people know that Lavern Cox (a transgender actress) was the beautiful lady in the Smirnoff commercial. Maybe 1 in 100.

 

So, we are not all gorgeous I know I will never be the hot chick next door. I realize that. A girl can dream. Anyway, I have seen some CIS woman who look more manly that some guys. 

 

Wouldn't having a transgender athlete on a team be better. Create some competition, Oh, I beat her and she used to be a guy.

 

I guess some people need some sense knocked into them, With a sledge hammer.

 

Kymmie

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, KymmieL said:

It is about giving trans people equal rights.

That's a problem for some people.

[Ivy]

It's unfortunate that this is becoming a pick-a-hill-to-die-on thing.

[Charlize]

I am certainly sorry that so many GOP candidates have made the GLBTQ community a target.  I know some who are great at supporting trans and other folks on a personal level.  Unfortunately i see many who are quite different.  At the same time many Democrats have issues as well.  Hate knows no party.  

That being said i'm glad to see an administration that has a gay man in the cabinet and trans folks on  staff!  Such a difference.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[KimmieElise]

Regarding the GOP, they are generally spineless and feckless.  Most of the Right is turning on them, and there is talk of new parties in the works.  Much of the GOP was all onboard with Trump until it looked like he was not going to win re-election and then they turned on him.  Regardless of what you believe about Trump, this shows how much the GOP leadership in general just rides the wind.  In fact both parties are bleeding membership and have been increasing numbers.  The Walkaway movement represents a huge loss of membership for the Democrats.

 

The problem revolves around the binary thinking of the political establishments.  For this it is either A or B, and no nuance in between.  Nature is nothing if not diverse, and true diversity does not do well under centralized A or B solutions.  This whole thing ought not be handled at the Federal level, but neither side seems to be able to resist that centralized power to force universal compliance, and inevitably that universal compliance will mess someone over.

 

I am much more in favor of creative and local solutions, and whenever possible non-government solutions.  The reality of this matter is equality is valid for trans women except in the area of athletics.  There is a great deal of diversity within the trans community. Not every trans girl is in on hormones, and the last I heard hormones are optional.  Not every trans girl started transitioning before benefiting from testosterone in ways a cis girl could not.  There have been recent cases where high school girls have been totally excluded from top wins in their leagues by trans girls who are physically vastly superior as demonstrated by the fact these trans girls have set new records for girls sports over and over and over again.  I can't blame them for feeling cheated.  I can't blame cis women for occasionally wanting to participate in cis woman-only spaces, because we aren't the same as cis-women, in that we miss out on a certain amount of female experiences only cis women experience.  Finding more local and creative solutions to the issues at hand will keep this out of hands of either the Democrats or the GOP at the national level and eventually stop this stupid cycle of of pendulum swinging between A and B.

 

The irony of the situation is both sides feel just as attacked by the other.  The Right feels like the whole trans thing is being jammed down their throats, and the Left feels trans issues are being unreasonably targeted.  Both sides are reacting and creating a loop of back and forth attacks and counter attacks.  It would be comical if it weren't so tragic.

 

I was recently in an interesting conversation on Gab (I know "GASP! Alt-Right Hate World!).  Gab has its share of nuts including outright REAL white supremacists, anti-semites, and 'burn-all-the-LGBT' people, but also has some reasonable voices.  Andrew Torba, Gab's founder and CEO is a psychopathic narcissist.  That doesn't mean the platform is useful, and not where I spend most of my time.  The subject of trans people came up in regards to a Spotify ad telling how they have working groups to help with the special needs of trans people.  Of course there were the usual nuts who assume we're all pedophiles or gay men who want to try to lure cis men into our beds, etc.  I simply started asking questions.  "How did you come to the conclusion all trans people are pedophiles."  I engaged in conversations with facts to educate people, and by the time the conversation was over, the vast majority of people softened their stances to something more reasonable.  A couple agreed to disagree, which I see a progress as before that they were pretty ensconced in their anti-trans view.  Only one was so hard core in their position that "trans people are all sinners and hating sinners is a Christian virtue."  The bottom line is "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."  That's how we sort all of this out.  We do it one or two people at a time, one relationship at a time, until culture begins to go from dramatically polarized to having somewhat of a consensus, all though the extremes will always be there.

 

Full disclosure: I am as libertarian as they come, with slight Right leanings.  I think government is a necessary evil and the only way to prevent government from doing damage is to tie its hands so tightly it can't do much at all, and only acts to keep the private sector in check so mob rule doesn't create its own totalitarianism.

[Ivy]

13 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

The irony of the situation is both sides feel just as attacked by the other.  The Right feels like the whole trans thing is being jammed down their throats, and the Left feels trans issues are being unreasonably targeted.  Both sides are reacting and creating a loop of back and forth attacks and counter attacks.  It would be comical if it weren't so tragic.

True this

[Phoenix]

On 2/14/2021 at 7:48 PM, KimmieElise said:

Only one was so hard core in their position that "trans people are all sinners and hating sinners is a Christian virtue.

I do hope you informed him that anyone who claims the Bible teaches them to hate anyone is not a real Christian at all.

[Phoenix]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:42 AM, Carolyn Marie said:

So for the sake of that one, you need a friggin law that "protects" all the other girls, and punishes that one trans girl.  And if you don't have that law, society will be ruined along with the lives of every cis-gen girl.

The phrase “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few,” comes to mind. If we’re talking about scholarships, it’s a very real possibility that lives will at least be altered. It seems more a case where protecting one trans athlete could lead to them winning by default, as the other athletes realize they can’t come anywhere close to her time or performance. 
 

I’ve realized since I came out I have to give up certain things… safely walking outside at night, for example. Sure, we could pass a law that made it a felony for any non-trans person to be out after dark… but that’s both unfair and ridiculous.

 

If a team of 15/16-year-old boys can defeat the top ranked woman’s teams of various countries in soccer, it’s not outside the realm of possibility that I could hop off this bed and at least hold my own in a race. 
 

Sure, I’d lose, but I’d at least kept it interesting.

 

I recall the original series of the show Wipeout (the one without John Cena as the announcer). More often that not, it’s the men who win, because it’s a physically grueling competition and there are no allowances made for gender.

 

They’ve even had episodes where they pitted “couch potato” men vs. athlete women. (Generally, that’s when a woman won, though it was close, if I recall correctly.)

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Phoenix said:

I’ve realized since I came out I have to give up certain things… safely walking outside at night, for example.

This is a thing.

When I came out, my ex was concerned for my safety.  I suppose I was too, LOL.  So far I've been okay, but I do consider where I go and when.

But I knew it would be like this when I made the decision to be public.  People need to realize that coming out as trans is not just sunshine and daisies.  It does change things, there is a lot you might lose.

[Phoenix]

13 hours ago, Jandi said:

This is a thing.

When I came out, my ex was concerned for my safety.  I suppose I was too, LOL.  So far I've been okay, but I do consider where I go and when.

But I knew it would be like this when I made the decision to be public.  People need to realize that coming out as trans is not just sunshine and daisies.  It does change things, there is a lot you might lose.

Indeed there is. And unfortunately that might, for some, be the ability to compete in sports.
 

We as transwomen may have to make a choice. What’s more important — a lifetime as our true self or the ability to compete in a sport. 
 

It’s funny, you don’t really hear about the other side — transmen competing in the rough and tumble “traditionally male” sports. That’s because the reality is the average transman would get destroyed in a sport like football or wrestling if they played against cisgender males.

 

But when it comes to transgirls and transwomen obliterating the records of cisgender girls and women, it’s all a-okay.

[Ivy]

I'm pretty sure I've heard of trans men wrestling in their weight class.

[Phoenix]

12 hours ago, Jandi said:

I'm pretty sure I've heard of trans men wrestling in their weight class.

How’d they do? 

[Ivy]

I don't really remember.  Sorry.

I just thought it was cool.

Don't remember which state off the top of my head.

[Guest]

I have to say that for a while I was starting to have a bit of fear of a dystopian view about our future. I live in South Carolina, and I actually recall a time when Nikki Haley had some real potential as a leader. That view has swirled down the drain, not only because of her recent statements jumping on the "bash and gash transgender people" bandwagon.

 

For the past seven months I have been openly presenting myself without any negative backlash. My biggest fears have not materialized at this point. I have to wonder if the current "Bash and Gash" to get my name in the news approach by many of the politicians is like a new puppy that you are trying to train. You put the puppy in a crate or room and as soon as you are out of view for a few minutes they are yapping until you pick them up, rub them, and tell them they are great. Spooky huh? It sure seems similar.

 

I am encouraged by the actions of the politicians in South Carolina who the last time the ban on transgender children in school athletics measure was defeated. I recently noted the response of the Governor of Utah (a Republican) who clearly stated his support for us. We also see the Arizona Republicans stepping up for us. 

 

I had a bit of fear in transitioning at first, like many of us probably have had. The other day I went out to replace all of my work uniforms and I walked into the Scrubs and Beyond. One of their clerks came up to me and simply asked me "how can I help you". She did not throw in the obligatory "sir" with the question. I was obviously not looking to knightly. I told her that I was transitioning and told her what I needed. She took me to the racks, told me what runs tight and loose. She then helped me to the dressing booth. No fuss, no muss. No funny weird comments. No eye rolls. I made the trip worth their while and my while. 

 

I ran into the same thing at the Kay's Jewelers where I had my ears pierced a while ago. I ran into just as much acceptance at the Dillards I went into in Charlotte at the South Park Mall. 

 

Transitioning and acceptance appears to be more common that we are led to believe. It would appear not everybody is mindless no matter what the Nikki Haley's or the Trumps of the world go on to spew. 

 

Sincerely

Katie

[Ivy]

44 minutes ago, Katie23 said:

Transitioning and acceptance appears to be more common that we are led to believe.

This has been my experience in NC for the most part as well.