Newfound Dysphoria?

[Nora]

Sooo...I've never really experienced dysphoria before...at least I don't think I have; I'm autistic, so it can be kinda hard for me to identify emotions in myself and others unless it's like a basic, primal emotion like joy or rage lol.

But anyhoo, yeah, I don't think I've ever really experienced dysphoria until recently; almost 8 months now after starting HRT. What triggered it? I'll give you a hint: It starts with "P" and ends with "enis" LOL XD

I'm starting to really hate my little boy parts down under. I think it started when I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror when getting dressed one morning. I'm starting to look more and more like a girl which makes me feel super happy, but then a saw the tell-tale bulge in my panties and I kinda started freaking out inside. Now I'm considering SRS sooner than I'd originally planned. Originally, that was the LAST thing my list of transition goals LOL. What changed? This is a SUPER weird feeling for me. I've been kind of a Fort Knox of weird feelings though over the past few months lol. How many others didn't experience dysphoria at the start, but experienced it later on down the road mid-transition? Does it mean I'm making a huge mistake? Or is this like WAY more normal than I think it is? Should I hold fast to my original plan of saving that step for last, or should I bump it up the timeline a bit? When did you decide to have SRS, (if at all)? I used to not feel any one particular way about my downstairs junk; I even considered the possibility of keeping it. But now I like, SUPER hate that part of my body, and definitely want to get rid of it. ...Thoughts? Asking for a friend lol.

[KathyLauren]

It is very common to start transition for some reasons that don't include body parts, and then to become aware of one's dissatisfaction with their body parts later in the process.  That was certainly the case for me.

 

I know a lot of people reserve the word "dysphoria" for dissatisfaction with body parts, but I think it applies to other areas of life.  Social dysphoria is very common, possibly more common than body dysphoria.  To be honest, I cannot see someone starting transition, including HRT, unless they were experiencing some kind of (what I would call) dysphoria.

 

In my case, I experienced strong social dysphoria.  I could not stand relating to others as a male and wanted to relate to them as a female.  On that basis, I started HRT and transitioned socially shortly thereafter.  Well after that process started, I became more aware of my body dysphoria and set the process in motion to do something about that.  That is a very common path.

 

However, I am not going to tell you how to describe your experience.  If you prefer to reserve the word dysphoria for dissatisfaction with your body, then yes, what you describe is very common.  It doesn't indicate a mistake.  It just indicates a difference in terminology.

 

[stveee]

To "decide" to start HRT would suggest you had some kind of dysphoria. 

I agree, dyphoria is much more than a dissonance between my mind or Self identity and it's container. It's my Self's relation to both outer (and inner) environment. Sometimes it's very subtle, sometimes glaring. 

[Nora]

9 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

It is very common to start transition for some reasons that don't include body parts, and then to become aware of one's dissatisfaction with their body parts later in the process.  That was certainly the case for me.

 

I know a lot of people reserve the word "dysphoria" for dissatisfaction with body parts, but I think it applies to other areas of life.  Social dysphoria is very common, possibly more common than body dysphoria.  To be honest, I cannot see someone starting transition, including HRT, unless they were experiencing some kind of (what I would call) dysphoria.

 

In my case, I experienced strong social dysphoria.  I could not stand relating to others as a male and wanted to relate to them as a female.  On that basis, I started HRT and transitioned socially shortly thereafter.  Well after that process started, I became more aware of my body dysphoria and set the process in motion to do something about that.  That is a very common path.

 

However, I am not going to tell you how to describe your experience.  If you prefer to reserve the word dysphoria for dissatisfaction with your body, then yes, what you describe is very common.  It doesn't indicate a mistake.  It just indicates a difference in terminology.

 

Thanks for sharing! That makes a lot more sense; the social dysphoria you describe is something I've felt for literally decades, in the sense I never really got along with the boys and preferred playing house with the girls, especially when I got to be the baby LOL. ?

Got bullied all throughout elementary school, and part of elementary school before "the incident" happened when I was twelve, and then I prefer to just fast forward five years later at the age of seventeen and just skip that violent-gorey-horror-movie section of my life that led to copious amounts of drug and alcohol abuse which continues to this day despite my nurse's wishes lol. Then the good old fashioned bullying from when I was kid resumed all throughout my five year long firefighting career starting at seventeen. It was nice; I actually enjoyed the hazing; it was WAY nicer than...the period of time we shall never speak of...at least not tonight. =P

[Nora]

Edit: ...and part of middle school before "the incident."

Sorry; I zoned out and re-lived some crap for a sec. I'm fine LOL. XD

[Nora]

9 hours ago, stveee said:

To "decide" to start HRT would suggest you had some kind of dysphoria. 

I agree, dyphoria is much more than a dissonance between my mind or Self identity and it's container. It's my Self's relation to both outer (and inner) environment. Sometimes it's very subtle, sometimes glaring. 

...Buuut...crap. This might be one of those social situations where I just shouldn't say anything, but I'm a little drunk, so I'm gonna risk it LOL. Here goes it:

The first thing that comes to mind, is...there is no free will. ...For anyone to decide to do anything at all is simply an illusion; a beautiful lie. The reality of the matter is that due to the laws of nature and the laws of physics, EVERYTHING is pre-determined; written in stone the moment gravity first got it's foothold in this most-likely-fake thing humans like to call the Universe. For me to think that I have any kind of say in anything at all just seems to be laughably absurd to me. ...We're all slaves to fatalistic destiny. No one is really responsible or to be blamed for anything in Universe. ...And that's pretty much the only way I've found for me to forgive people who hurt me and others...it's not their fault; they know not what they do lol.

The second thing that came to mind is WAY less deep; it's simply that it occurred to me that perhaps a part of me doesn't really like the word "Dysphoria" because it sounds like a mental illness. I'm not sick. Nothing's wrong with me. I'm merely dissatisfied with various aspects of my body, as all human beings are. Thinking of myself as "dysphoric" just feels...WEIRD lol. XD

[Nora]

Edit: ...as MOST if not all human beings are lol.

[Ivy]

8 hours ago, Nora said:

The first thing that comes to mind, is...there is no free will. ...For anyone to decide to do anything at all is simply an illusion; a beautiful lie. The reality of the matter is that due to the laws of nature and the laws of physics, EVERYTHING is pre-determined; written in stone the moment gravity first got it's foothold in this most-likely-fake thing humans like to call the Universe. For me to think that I have any kind of say in anything at all just seems to be laughably absurd to me. ...We're all slaves to fatalistic destiny.

Whether or not this is true is immaterial to me.  Even if our decisions are "pre-determined" in a sense, we do still make the decision without this foreknowledge.  So in that practical respect it is a "freewill" decision.

 

It doesn't always help us to overthink decisions we have to make in our daily lives.

[Nora]

5 hours ago, Jandi said:

Whether or not this is true is immaterial to me.  Even if our decisions are "pre-determined" in a sense, we do still make the decision without this foreknowledge.  So in that practical respect it is a "freewill" decision.

 

It doesn't always help us to overthink decisions we have to make in our daily lives.

 
Mmmmm, I dunno; free-will is paradoxical in a predictable Universe. Humans are little more than fleshy, biological clockwork; like a fantastic automaton. Every "decision" I make is the result of exterior stimulus which was completely out of my control...as is the way may brain has been wired to react to my environment. If I suddenly "decide" to do something seemingly "unpredictable", that "decision" TOO is the result of something else that was out of my control. No matter what I "choose", the ultimate outcome was inevitable; it physically couldn't have happened any other way. My foreknowledge of this fact doesn't give me any more or less power in the Universe. It simply means that I'm aware I'm a prisoner in my own life, and for the most part, I'm fine with that. It can sound a little depressing, but then I remember that killing myself wouldn't solve anything; it wouldn't be "an escape" from destiny, because my decision to kill myself ALSO would have been written in stone since the dawn of time lol, and I'm just not gonna give the Universe that kinda satisfaction; I completely predictable response on my behalf. #HappilyAssimilated #TheMatrixIsReal LOL XD ?

[Nora]

Edit: A completely predictable response on my behalf. #HappilyAssimilated lol.

[Nora]

Hehehe, I've always gotten a real kick outta the saying, "You choose your own destiny." XD

It's one of the most humorous statements in the Universe to me; like some kind of absurdly eosteric poetry out of an Alice and Wonderland novel lmao. XD

[Ivy]

There are so many layers to this stuff I tend to look at it as an onion.  

(Although, all analogies seem to break down eventually since they are not actually the thing you are trying to explain/understand)

 

If you bring the concept of time into it, can you say that anything that has ever existed, or will exist, already exists?  If so, the future already is a thing, therefore cannot be changed and so is predetermined.  So no free will.

 

But we exist in the moment as it were, so for us we do make a choice.

 

As Dr Seuss put it, "Oh the thinks you can think".

[Nora]

I don't really think of my thoughts as....mine? 
...They come; they go. ?

[Sometimes Chrissie]

7 hours ago, Nora said:

Sooo...I've never really experienced dysphoria before...at least I don't think I have; I'm autistic, so it can be kinda hard for me to identify emotions in myself and others unless it's like a basic, primal emotion like joy or rage lol.

But anyhoo, yeah, I don't think I've ever really experienced dysphoria until recently; almost 8 months now after starting HRT. What triggered it? I'll give you a hint: It starts with "P" and ends with "enis" LOL XD

I'm starting to really hate my little boy parts down under. I think it started when I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror when getting dressed one morning. I'm starting to look more and more like a girl which makes me feel super happy, but then a saw the tell-tale bulge in my panties and I kinda started freaking out inside. Now I'm considering SRS sooner than I'd originally planned. Originally, that was the LAST thing my list of transition goals LOL. What changed? This is a SUPER weird feeling for me. I've been kind of a Fort Knox of weird feelings though over the past few months lol. How many others didn't experience dysphoria at the start, but experienced it later on down the road mid-transition? Does it mean I'm making a huge mistake? Or is this like WAY more normal than I think it is? Should I hold fast to my original plan of saving that step for last, or should I bump it up the timeline a bit? When did you decide to have SRS, (if at all)? I used to not feel any one particular way about my downstairs junk; I even considered the possibility of keeping it. But now I like, SUPER hate that part of my body, and definitely want to get rid of it. ...Thoughts? Asking for a friend lol.

I'm ambivalent about my junk. I'd like it if they were smaller.  

 

If I were to marry a trans female whether she had the same junk as me, I wouldn't care. I would never ask or even hope for a trans female to have bottom surgery.

or even breast augmentation. Butt enhancement is a another story.

 

If you are not seeing your "enis" does it bother you knowing you have one or does seeing it trigger those feelings? 

 

My thoughts about bottom surgery are this.

 

1. Don't get it to please anyone but yourself. 

 

2. If your brain is female having bottom surgery will not make you any more female. 

 

3. Females need testosterone so of there is a way to keep a small amount of functioning testicle you will be partially there to getting rid of your male junk and your enis will shrink. Testosterone is a much maligned hormone in some circles and a much over hyped hormone in other circles. 

 

4. Some surgeries are more risky than others. 

 

5. Enlightened males see women for their character and morals after the initial physical attraction. If your sexual orientation is that of a straight female a male who truly loves you, won't care what's between your legs. Why do you? That may be a good question to explore.

 

[Ivy]

Back on the original subject.

 

1 hour ago, Sometimes Chrissie said:

I'm ambivalent about my junk. I'd like it if they were smaller.

Mine was never that impressive anyway.

These days I just kinda think of it as inside-out, with oversized clitoris.

I can't see Bottom surgery in the cards for me anyway.  (age & finances)

 

I think my voice and facial hair bother me more.

 

[Sometimes Chrissie]

1 hour ago, Jandi said:

Back on the original subject.

 

Mine was never that impressive anyway.

These days I just kinda think of it as inside-out, with oversized clitoris.

I can't see Bottom surgery in the cards for me anyway.  (age & finances)

 

I think my voice and facial hair bother me more.

 

My broad shoulders bother me the most and what is frustrating is I'd probably need a 40" hips to balance them out. 

 

There are some good videos on voice feminization. I'm able to switch to a female voice and If I get ma'am I switch so as to not embarrass them. 

 

[Nora]

15 hours ago, Sometimes Chrissie said:

I'm ambivalent about my junk. I'd like it if they were smaller.  

 

If I were to marry a trans female whether she had the same junk as me, I wouldn't care. I would never ask or even hope for a trans female to have bottom surgery.

or even breast augmentation. Butt enhancement is a another story.

 

If you are not seeing your "enis" does it bother you knowing you have one or does seeing it trigger those feelings? 

 

My thoughts about bottom surgery are this.

 

1. Don't get it to please anyone but yourself. 

 

2. If your brain is female having bottom surgery will not make you any more female. 

 

3. Females need testosterone so of there is a way to keep a small amount of functioning testicle you will be partially there to getting rid of your male junk and your enis will shrink. Testosterone is a much maligned hormone in some circles and a much over hyped hormone in other circles. 

 

4. Some surgeries are more risky than others. 

 

5. Enlightened males see women for their character and morals after the initial physical attraction. If your sexual orientation is that of a straight female a male who truly loves you, won't care what's between your legs. Why do you? That may be a good question to explore.

 

 
All excellent points; thanks for sharing!

1. It would definitely be moreso to please myself than others lol; I'm asexual; nobody ever sees what's between my legs anyway lol. Though I do also like the idea of blending in better with the other women in the locker/changing rooms at my gym or Aikido dojo; but even that's moreso to make myself feel comfortable. I really don't give a crap personally what people think of me...but I am worried about getting outed and possible harm coming to my friends and/or family at the hands of some sycophantic bigot. 

2. ...I don't really understand your second point; about my brain being female and bottom surgery not making me anymore female. ...I think where my brain starts glitching is the "If your brain is female..." because there's no such thing as a "male" or "female" brain. All human brains perform the same basic functions; it doesn't really categorize any one specific function as "male" or "female". It's just a common misconception that men and women's brains work differently, and subsequently must be structurally different from one another, when really both male and female brains are actually identical and subject to a myriad of different wiring combinations that are the mere byproduct of exterior stimulus setting off various biochemical reactions throughout the nervous system, which end up programming your brain to think and react a certain way in response to the aforementioned stimuli. Change the chemicals; change the brain. ...But yeah, no; human brains don't have gender. That would be weird LOL. XD ...And in regards to whether bottom surgery would make me any more female...I think my brain is only confused by that segment due to semantics and all the different variables of what you could mean, (I'm autistic; life is difficult lmao). XD

[Nora]

3. I know females need testosterone, but they don't need to get testosterone from testicles and neither do biological males. Plus I want to get off the spironolactone because it scares me lmao.

4. I'm leaning towards a partial vaginoplasty with Marci Bowers; anyone got any firsthand experience with her, and specifically ZDV/LDV???

5. I care because it makes me feel gross and because MOST humans, let alone males especially, aren't particularly "enlightened" lmao. I'm kind of a nihilistic pessimist; I sorta figure everyone I meet in person is going to try to stab me in the back or ambush me; I usually have a plan to take out everybody in the room should they suddenly turn hostile lmao. ...C-PTSD. =P

[stveee]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:42 PM, Jandi said:

There are so many layers to this stuff I tend to look at it as an onion.  

(Although, all analogies seem to break down eventually since they are not actually the thing you are trying to explain/understand)

 

If you bring the concept of time into it, can you say that anything that has ever existed, or will exist, already exists?  If so, the future already is a thing, therefore cannot be changed and so is predetermined.  So no free will.

 

But we exist in the moment as it were, so for us we do make a choice.

 

As Dr Seuss put it, "Oh the thinks you can think".

I learned some about Eastern vs. Western thought and "narrative", which includes the narrative of ourselves; typically, Western thought is linear, there is a beginning, middle and end whereas Hindu is cyclic.

As Alan Watts explains, we often perceive our present as being a product or result of the past. Which also can place excessive value on memory itself, past events...because we are still perceiving them from the present anyway.

 I think this can begin to shed some insight on the concept of "fate", that is typically preoccupied with past decisions and how they will translate into consequences, all the while overlooking the infinite and immediate reality of the present.

Hinduism and Buddhist thinking shifts the focus to Now, the present, and the past flowing from it. The ship going through water produces a wake- the wake does not propel the ship forward. 

 

[KathyLauren]

5 hours ago, Nora said:

 
2. ...I don't really understand your second point; about my brain being female and bottom surgery not making me anymore female. ...I think where my brain starts glitching is the "If your brain is female..." because there's no such thing as a "male" or "female" brain. All human brains perform the same basic functions; it doesn't really categorize any one specific function as "male" or "female". It's just a common misconception that men and women's brains work differently, and subsequently must be structurally different from one another, when really both male and female brains are actually identical and subject to a myriad of different wiring combinations that are the mere byproduct of exterior stimulus setting off various biochemical reactions throughout the nervous system, which end up programming your brain to think and react a certain way in response to the aforementioned stimuli. Change the chemicals; change the brain. ...But yeah, no; human brains don't have gender. That would be weird LOL. XD ...And in regards to whether bottom surgery would make me any more female...I think my brain is only confused by that segment due to semantics and all the different variables of what you could mean, (I'm autistic; life is difficult lmao). XD

 

Human brains do have sexual dimorphism, that is detectable in an MRI, and that correlates to gender identity.  Whether the correlation is enough to be diagnostic is still an open question.  But it is definitely a thing.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139786/

[Nora]

2 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

 

Human brains do have sexual dimorphism, that is detectable in an MRI, and that correlates to gender identity.  Whether the correlation is enough to be diagnostic is still an open question.  But it is definitely a thing.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139786/

I read a good chunk of it before deciding to scroll down to so how much further it would go on...then I gave up because I just don't have that kinda time LOL. Thanks for sharing though! Looks like an interesting read; I'll probably get to it in the future at some point. 

From what I read though, it seemed to basically be saying the same thing I was saying, but with slightly more smarty-pantsy biologery sounding words thrown into the mix lol. Seems they were saying that the differences in the brain were the result of hormonal, environmental and cultural factors. The relative sizes between a male and female brain seems negligible because I'm pretty sure I heard that the size of a brain doesn't necessarily determine how it functions. Not to mention all the crap that can happen that can radically alter various regions of the brain, particularly trauma and abuse. Some ciswomen have a large amygdala, some ciswomen have a small amygdala. Twenty bucks says that either way...it was their parents fault. ?

[Ivy]

Or might not be anyone's fault.   It just is.

[Nora]

5 hours ago, Jandi said:

Or might not be anyone's fault.   It just is.

Ahhhh; you're quite right. It isn't anyone's fault! Free will would have to exist in order for anyone to be truly responsible for anything hehehe. ...Sorry if I seem argumentative or obnoxious; totally not my fault; brain chemicals! ?

[Nora]

....And too much candy lol.

[Sometimes Chrissie]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:34 AM, Nora said:

 
All excellent points; thanks for sharing!

1. It would definitely be moreso to please myself than others lol; I'm asexual; nobody ever sees what's between my legs anyway lol. Though I do also like the idea of blending in better with the other women in the locker/changing rooms at my gym or Aikido dojo; but even that's moreso to make myself feel comfortable. I really don't give a crap personally what people think of me...but I am worried about getting outed and possible harm coming to my friends and/or family at the hands of some sycophantic bigot. 

2. ...I don't really understand your second point; about my brain being female and bottom surgery not making me anymore female. ...I think where my brain starts glitching is the "If your brain is female..." because there's no such thing as a "male" or "female" brain. All human brains perform the same basic functions; it doesn't really categorize any one specific function as "male" or "female". It's just a common misconception that men and women's brains work differently, and subsequently must be structurally different from one another, when really both male and female brains are actually identical and subject to a myriad of different wiring combinations that are the mere byproduct of exterior stimulus setting off various biochemical reactions throughout the nervous system, which end up programming your brain to think and react a certain way in response to the aforementioned stimuli. Change the chemicals; change the brain. ...But yeah, no; human brains don't have gender. That would be weird LOL. XD ...And in regards to whether bottom surgery would make me any more female...I think my brain is only confused by that segment due to semantics and all the different variables of what you could mean, (I'm autistic; life is difficult lmao). XD

There are female and male brain differences in both structure and function. https://www.arlenetaylor.org/sensory-preference-pas/7444-gender-hearing-differences

 

Males and Females process language differently https://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html

 

https://www.learning-mind.com/male-brain-vs-female-brain-20-differences/

 

Part of it is evolution. 

 

There are both hard and soft signs that show gender differences in brain function. 

 

When HRT kicks in sense of smell changes. Sense of smell is connected to many other brain functions. 

Here's how your hormones impact your sense of smell

 

Male and female brains are very different as are gay and straight brains. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11113342/c