Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Presbyterianism in Action


DeeDee

Recommended Posts

The Church of Scotland is the recognised National church in Scotland. Whenever a contentious decision is asked for it at it's annual General Assembly it uses something called the Barrier Act to slow things down, so from there the inidividual areas come together to vote, and it then goes back to the next General Assembly to pass a vote.  The whole point of presbyterianism is that no one person has the ear of God, for we were created equal and in God's image. By definition the church is a slow and painful thing to change, last year a minister asked if we could recognise that we are never going to reconcile those that do not want to embrace blessing same sex marriage, with those that do want to and allow ministers to actually sign up in order to legally be able to conduct services while still allowing those who are against to be legally protected.

I saw this this morning and it brightened my day.

 

526178494_PresbyteryBarrierActVoting.thumb.jpg.66cf8ff1a8e02d262ec928946c39f16c.jpg

I know that simply by culture alone Uist, Lewis and Skye will intend to vote no, as if they had their way people wiould still not be allowed to cook or do their washing on a Sunday; but since the votes are already in the majority in favour, a report will be submitted to the General Assembly in May. However, it will only become Church law in Scotland if the General Assembly agree to the legislation too.
The Church has been debating sexuality since 2006 with the advent of Civil Partnerships in Scotland and whether ministers could bless them, but this is the first time that the vote seemse to ahve moved past a 50/50 split. It has taken time but now the Church is on the threshold of allowing people in same sex relationships to be married by their ministers!
At the moment the only indicator I have while I look for an accepting church is whether a church has indicated that they have Departed from the traditional stance and are happy for a minister in a same sex partnership to be called (which has been allowed for a few years if the individual church allows it), the church is also restructuring it's presbyteries so that they will shrink down to a likely 8 in total, so this is a detailed population indicator that simply won't exist when it comes to the actual vote. This shows things moving slowly but surely in the right direction.

 

Link to comment

I am glad to hear they are leaning in the right direction.

 

I don't have any personal allegiance to Christianity, but my grandfather was a Church of Scotland minister.  He served in several parishes all over Scotland, but my memories, dim as they are, are of Contin, which would be in #37 on your map.  I looked it up on Google Streetview.  Beautiful setting, and the manse looks nice, but what a dreary-looking church!

 

Thanks for sharing the good news.

Link to comment
  • Forum Moderator

Very good news DeeDee!  Looks like some progress is being made. 

 

Jani

Link to comment

@KathyLauren Wow! I know the Contin area well. I used to wild swim in the river there as a teenager. The trend from conservative to liberal going from north to south and rural to central belt has been anecotally known for years, but there are definitely far more yeses than I expected, and that does give me hope for the future.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, DeeDee said:

Wow! I know the Contin area well.

 

That's amazing!  I have never encountered anyone who had even heard of Contin.

Link to comment

Hi, I'm Scots by ancestry and a Presbyterian by choice and ordination, so this hits close to home for me. Here in the states, Presbyterianism has split into three major denominations, with varying degrees of acceptance of the entire LGBTQ community, the most inclusive being the PCUSA. Back in 2014 we (clergy) voted to sanction and allow same sex marriages as well as gay/lesbian ministers of Word and Sacrament. So far, the PCA and OPC have not. 

 

Congrats, @DeeDee! Glad to see some progress is being made in Scotland.

Link to comment

My great grandfather was an Elder, and I am a Deacon in PCUSA. I was also on the search committee and steering committee for a new church development in PCUSA.  I am out to our current minister and church members.  I couldn’t have done that if we weren’t PCUSA.

 

Willow

Link to comment
16 hours ago, Willow said:

My great grandfather was an Elder, and I am a Deacon in PCUSA. I was also on the search committee and steering committee for a new church development in PCUSA.  I am out to our current minister and church members.  I couldn’t have done that if we weren’t PCUSA.

 

Willow

Hi @Willow, What you say is the truth, and it's good news for the church. When I was going through seminary (a long time ago) we were bound by the fidelity and chastity clause in the Book of Order, which was, to put it mildly, very parochial in its interpretation of marriage, ordination and sexuality. Thank God it was rewritten to reflect a more inclusive perspective. Had that not happened, I would not be ordained and you would not be a deacon. 

 

Sometimes progress is slow, but it is certain. There's an old saying about how the gristmill of God grinds slowly, but it never stops and it always grinds very fine. Perhaps we're seeing it now...

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   5 Members, 0 Anonymous, 44 Guests (See full list)

    • VickySGV
    • MaryEllen
    • LauraMarie
    • LauraMarie1024
    • Alex-John
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      76.5k
    • Total Posts
      717.3k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      9,497
    • Most Online
      8,356

    LauraMarie
    Newest Member
    LauraMarie
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Dawn2020
      Dawn2020
      (73 years old)
    2. luke_b
      luke_b
      (19 years old)
  • Posts

    • Alex-John
      hey  everyone , i hope you are all well , i havent been around for a long time  due to mental health and gender identity issues  I am about to come out yet again , ( Tomorrow i have to tell my support workers ) just came out to  my partner again and a Trans friend  kinda as i broke down in tears in a coffee shop , i hope you all remember me i am transgender male ( i was on T but i stopped it ) i missed you all  but am back and hoping to me here more  😃
    • Heather Shay
      need distraction today - recorded just 3 weeks after they formed......    
    • Heather Shay
    • Marcie Jensen
      The congressman posting about it is Paul Gosar, a bit of a right wing loon. I used to be in his district here in Arizona, and found him to be, shall we say, unpalatable. He is not mainstream by any means, and it doesn't surprise me that he is involved in spreading this hate and paranoia. Gosar is a vile man, imho.   And, sadly, hate is often an expression of fear. In this case these folks fear what they don't understand or are willing to accept. Pity the puny minded knuckleheads, and as Carolyn said, watch your "six."
    • Jandi
      I heard about this while at a trans support group yesterday.  There was even a congressman posting about it.  Totally false. It's freaking insane what they'll do to attack us.   The worst thing is that people are ready to believe it.   Sometimes I get so depressed.     The only consolation is if I get killed, I'll go as a woman.  (although they'll probably deadname me)
    • Jandi
      I have family with those fancy set-the-time-grinds-brews, and is ready when you drag your butt out of bed. But for me, Folgers in my coffee-press works just fine.
    • miz miranda
    • Jackie C.
      My personal solution when I was pre-op was to use the toilets, but that's it. Nobody needs to see my bits. Especially if it might make somebody uncomfortable. Fortunately, there are some private areas where I used to change where I could go to do what I needed to do. The last thing I would ever do is make one of my sisters uncomfortable on purpose.   I legit worry about pre-op trans men in bathrooms and changing rooms though. There's a certain flavor of toxic man... well, fill in the blanks. They tend to get worst in groups and egg each other on.   Hugs!
    • Carolyn Marie
      I agree with you on most of what you said, @Dee Dee.  There is an understandable and rational basis behind the fears and reticence most cis-women have about sharing changing spaces with trans women.  Knowing that, I would never (being non-op) change in an open locker room even if, as in California, it is perfectly legal.  I have no desire to make anyone uncomfortable or fearful, whether or not I personally consider it rational.  Why force an issue you don't have to force?   Restrooms are another matter, because you're exposing nothing and threatening no one, and I would fight tooth and nail if anyone threatened my restroom access.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.   Carolyn Marie
    • VickySGV
      The Boarding House had one hell of an explosion to get all those 👿 roomers 👿 flying.  Some of it is satire on the Texas leadership I have heard from elsewhere.  It is indeed gruesome satire if it is, but with time spent on the subject of Trans to get their voter bases eager to support them, ----------
    • MomTGDaughter
      Ny m2f daughter's hair is thick, she needs to have it pulled back because it will get in her eyes. I do it for her every morning, I clip it with a barrett, the upper part of her hair is clipped back, the bottom part just flows down her back. It looks cute and it's just keeps her hair from being very messy. It also pulls her hair from her ears so her earings can be seen. 
    • DeeDee
      I had a rather depressing, but very understandable discussion with my sister last night that revolved around transphobia.  We were talking about access to toilets and that evolved into communal changing areas at a local private gym. My sister admitted that she would be uncomfortable if she knew I, or some other pre-op transwoman was changing in the same place. She is a survivor of very physical and emotional abuse and attacks by men and she said that her reaction to seeing a male body part would be abject horror. She likened it to the reaction she would have if she saw a spider.   She also feels uncomfrotable with male children being herded into the changing areas with their mums, so admitted that a lot of this was her personal comfort levels.   Intellectually she knows that trans women are not a threat, and in fact, (because I told her) are just as worried about being attacked, and understood that statistically there is literally no grounds to support trans women as predators, let alone the fact that taking estrogen is tantamount to chemical castration - but she just wants to feel safe. I said, "so do I". The thing is, I also understand her perspective. When I went away with my lady friends I used the disabled loos at a rest stop on the way to the place, I worried about sharing a bed, and getting in and out of the hot tub with them, precisely because I am pre-op and I referred to having an outie rather than an innie, to make light of the very real issue that I did not want to put anyone into an uncomfortable situation.  For my friends it was a non issue and on the way home at the same rest stop I used the ladies room, along with all the other ladies and I did use all of those spaces as just another one of the girls. However, as we were talking about trans women entering womens spaces (and trans men using mens spaces) I also pointed out that legally, in order to become post op here - which is not something every trans woman can or will do, we are legally required to have lived for 2 years, full time and using womens spaces. Even if we did not want to we are legally required to do so.  I also know that the bulk of this safe space conversation centred around trans women and not trans men - though the issues for pre-op are still the same. At the end of our discussion I said that for me she was still transphobic. It boils down to the fact that while I see myself as a woman with too much testosterone, she still sees me as a man, using my male privelege to access the medical drugs and services I need (electrolysis and E patches) while women with hormone defficiencies and PCOS cant access the same services I am and have to fight for treatment. I never wanted, never felt like I earned, nor have I tried to take advantage of my male privielge, but I recognise I have had it, I have not dealt with the same levels of gendered abuse that she has suffered through. Even though she messages me as Dee most of the time, and has no issue going out with me dressed as Dee; it was hurtful, and eventually I fled through to my study after confirming that we still loved each other, just to not show how upset I had become.    We both know that realistically, even in a shared changing area no one would be likely to flash their bits and any predator would not go to the effort and pain of transitioning in order to abuse others. We both have fears about being attacked and just want to be safe when we are out, we both want to simply live our lives, and we both think that realistically non gendered facilities are the best compromise, but most importantly we both also agreed that the problem is not women, but men, and the freedom society has given them to act inappropriately without consequence, and that culture is what needs to change.   I am glad we had the conversation. I had already picked up on her reticence sometimes, while she does talk to me about things she would not have dreamed of doing before I announced I was trans. I do see my sister as someone with a genuine phobia, and not just someone who is bigotted and thinks I shouldn't exist. Hopefully over time she will find these things easier, but the whole point of phobias is that they are irrational and do not make logical sense, so part of me wonders if I will ever be woman enough for her or if I will always be her brother. I know it hurt because it's taken me almost a full day to get to the point of being able to try and write about it. I guess I want to know how do we get to a point where everyone feels safe?
    • Jackie C.
      I absolutely feel that. I've donated every thread of my boy clothes. Never liked them anyway.   Also hey mom! Nice to see that you're still with us!   Hugs!
    • MomTGDaughter
      I donate the last of my daughter's male clothes 9 months ago, she wanted to part with every piece of it and i don't blame her.  It just seems like once she transitioned, she did not want to go back. 
    • Jamie73
      They did a wonderful job making the doll actually look like Laverne Cox. 
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...