Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Lia Thomas & Trans Sports Debate

Recommended Posts

On 2/18/2022 at 10:27 AM, Guest said:

. ..What if in someone else's mind, simply suggesting equal treatment is "pushing too hard"? ...If that's the proverbial bullet, what would the proverbial knife be as an alternative to suggesting equal treatment??? 😖


Suggesting a subtle change of perspective. For instance, in the course of conversation it may be possible to determine something that will strike a chord with the other person, and evoke their sense of empathy - a putting yourself in the other person's shoes type of realization. 


It seems to me that most people do not spend much time seeking to know themselves better. So, when they encounter someone who has, they may react with fear (of the unknown). If someone is fearful, and you confront them, they are likely to recoil or attack. What people do not realize is that not having to deeply investigate your gender (or sexuality) is a privilege. It's my hope that with skilled education, more people will gain this perspective. 


Link to comment

In my opinion, opposition to Lia Thomas is less about fairness and more about protecting the benefits of Title IX for women's' sports. I am far more concerned about the children that are being impacted by these silly competition bans for children than I am for this one case.


Is fairness in competition a legitimate concern, I absolutely believe that it is a valid issue. I'll reiterate that there has been very little research done on the topic of transgender athletic performance in general; let alone of in the presence of HRT. We really don't know if there is a significant performance advantage. In lieu of that, I would expect performance levels to drop while on hrt. I have yet to see a comparison of her swim times while competing as a male and this year, which may give a clue.


In this case particular case, the NCAA abdicated responsibility and left to the various governing bodies of the sports in the US. I believe this was a positive result. The sports are much better equipped than the NCAA to create and monitor rules. The NCAA cares a bout money period. USA swimming does have a policy for transgender athletes. I believe it does have a limit on testosterone levels and a need to be under those levels for a set period. I think it was 3 years. The policy requires testing for the athlete. I don't know that cis-women are held to the same testosterone standard. Lia would not have qualified under that policy for the NCAA championships. USA Swimming chose to allow her to compete. I can empathize with the athlete who was moved  out an award position by Lia's participation, however, she was allowed to compete and performed at a high level.


I think is reasonable to expect a person who gone through puberty on a male hormones to have some strength and size advantages than a person who has not. I don't believe we can quantify that at the current time. I also don't think we can project what the difference would be for any given individual depending on the hormone set for puberty. I don't accept the argument that LIA can never compete fairly because she went through 'male' puberty because that is a perpetual advantage.


I agree that there is bigotry driving this. However, I think the need is to advocate for research to answer some these human performance questions. Transgender people should be able to compete in the sports of there choice. The real question is whether they are able to fairly compete for championships and records, at the moment we just don't know the answers.


Please let the children play!



Link to comment

As some of you have mentioned above, the lines between "male" and "female" attributes are incredibly blurry. It is practically impossible to pick one trait to say "men are like this and women are like that, and therefore anyone like this should not be allowed to compete against other women". If you base it on height, there's bound to be a cis woman that is taller than the cutoff. If it's muscle mass, there's definitely cis girls out there that have more of it than most trans women. And we've seen hormone levels used to discriminate against cis athletes too, just look at what happened to Caster Semenya. 


So many of these arguments for why trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sports uphold sexist, racist ideals of womanhood. They persecute any woman that does not fit into this incredibly limited mold.


Often times, these arguments for why trans women should not be allowed to compete come from a concern for fairness. "Women should not be forced to compete against men, it's just not fair, they have no way of winning" Well why not? These arguments against trans athletes minimize the athletic prowess of women. Rather than breaking down gender stereotypes that women are just naturally inferior to men, so many transphobes double down on this idea in an attempt to uphold their bigotry. 


I forget the name of the book, but I once read a very persuasive argument for the desegregation of sports on the basis of sex. Rather than grasping at straws to find ways to exclude trans people from sports, we should be working to create opportunities for athletes to compete with others of the same skill level. Think of how wrestling has different weight classes. If there's is a way to allow athletes regardless of gender to compete against others of similar skill (or body types if that's truly a concern), we should be working to find that. An approach like this would also help combat the pay inequality between professional athletes in men's and women's leagues as well, but that's another conversation altogether. 


Of course, I'm no athlete, so I'm sure there's more nuance to this argument than what I've given it. However, as a feminist and someone who cares about gender equality, I balk at anyone trying to define what separates a man from a woman. Radical as it may sound, if we really want a world where trans people can be accepted, arbitrary segregation based on sex or gender is not really something that we should be advocating for at all. 


Link to comment

I would have to say that I am in favor of universal sports.  Girls already participate in wrestling successfully.  There are girls (not many) playing American football.  If you ever watch girls playing elite level softball you have to realize they are perfectly capable of playing baseball.  They don’t because the teams won’t allow them, not because the can’t.  They have had baseball players try to hit a fast pitch ball and they can’t.  It because the fast pitch comes across the plate at over 100mph.


Given the opportunity girls trans or cis, could all be competitive.  But something I feel strongly about is kids should be allowed to get the medical care they need, especially puberty blockers.  Then women sports would have transgender girls then no one could complain because they wouldn’t have an advantage.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

Such a controversial conversation.  I am mtf and a basketball coach at a high level. I am torn on what is right or what should be the rules involved. I do believe all should have opportunity to compete. There is some advantage, especially short term but that advantage definately diminishes over time the longer a person is on hormones.  I think is a mtf has bottom surgery then 100% should eligible immediately. If they haven't had surgery then the question arises how long on hormones is mandated to allow that athlete to compete. Complicated and I am not a doctor so won't take a stab at that one. I just want all to have opportunity regardless of gender and identity. Thanks! Marka


Link to comment

Physiologically, there are average differences between an individual who was AMAB, and a someone who was AFAB. There is a greater muscle mass in most AMABs. The thoracic cavity is usually larger. The lung capacity is increased. This allows for increased endurance. Where things split is in the issue of which puberty you go through. There is no reason at all why AMAB who transition at the time of puberty to be female to be barred from competing on the girls team. The differences are negligible other than not having a uterus or ovaries. 


What makes the Lia Thomas issue unique is that you have someone who very likely would have been very competitive even if they had transitioned at the age of puberty as she is tall, and lean. She had the advantage that she had been competing for at least 10 years as a male, and then had the combined effect of testosterone with her previously developed musculature and endurance. It is very tough call to sit her down and explain this to her, and get her to realize this prior to competing. 


Right, wrong, or indifferent, her wins increased a level of anti-trans sentiment in every sector for us who do not have visions of suddenly competing in women's sports. Then again, watching many of the female golfers, I believe most of them could clean our clocks on any course.


Now we are combatting a tidal wave of anti-trans sentiment lead by the propaganda machine at Fox News and a number of ill-informed news pundits, politicians, and influencers who have no idea about anything related to being transgender, other than they do not like it. There was already a number of anti-trans sentiment drummed up in the last few years. I just looked at one of my insurance policies last night. The one company(United Health Care) as of 4/1/22) has pared back their coverage to only cover the gender affirmation surgery. They consider any other procedures on your face, breasts, or body, cosmetic. It harkens back to the days about 30 years ago when everything was considered cosmetic. These idiots think we must be playing dress-up. I am fortunate that I have another insurer that covers the other procedures. I am dropping the UHC policy as soon as I can. They make me sick with their attitude.


I am not sure what the answers are. Other than the anti-trans groups that I have already mentioned, I have had tremendous support from colleagues, my employers, students, and friends. I had one small group on my mother's side of the family that likes to wear their MAGA hats and attitudes on their sleeve. Given their acceptance, they may as well be the Taliban to me.


There was recently a really good article in the Golf Digest called The Wrong Tees about a young transgender male name Luc who wanted to play high school golf, but is being barred by the anti-trans laws in Tennessee. It was a great article that talked about the very thing a I have stated above. Luc does not have any physical advantages, however, he is an excellent golfer because he practices all the time. Barring him from playing sickens me. Lia Thomas may have won some trophies, but at what cost to the transgender children who are growing up? 


Sadder yet, is that in the mid-term elections, we are likely to see a tsunami of anti-trans legislation that will likely overrun any vetoes. I am scared about the future. I cannot go back to who I was. Unfortunately, we do not have enough people listening nationally right now that can tilt this thing around. Look at what DeSantis is doing to Disney after they came out against the "Do not say gay law". DeSantis and his henchmen are going to make an example out of Disney without any regard to the consequences. The only thing missing is the secret police wearing armbands. Look at Abbott in Texas, who declared that providing your child with transgender care was child abuse. Where does this insane stuff end? 





Link to comment
  • Admin

The minute the symbols for money or money valued items such as scholarships or commercial "sports" entertainment contracts pop up we get every beer can popping, arm chair jockey or wanna-be athlete parents screaming about unfair competition. If their money is involved, if you win, it is great, if you lose, the game was rigged unfairly against you.  In places where the money is not the goal, even remotely, we have a much better chance of the activity benefiting the person and all their team mates for social reasons. 


I have lived down the street from a Little League (Plague) Baseball Field and have seen and heard parents berating their children primarily for being growing kids who shamed the parents by being a gracious non-winner.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 57 Guests (See full list)

    • awkward-yet-sweet
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
    • Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
    • Most Online

    Newest Member
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. AtlasEz
      (21 years old)
    2. Chase
    3. JennaLSinclair
    4. MadelineWilco
      (18 years old)
    5. Scramble4231
  • Posts

    • Marcie Jensen
      CONGRATULATIONS, @Bri2020!!!!! So happy for you!!  I hope you have a speedy and painless recovery.   Hugs.
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • KymmieL
      Fantastic to hear, Bri. That you are doing well.   Kymmie
    • VickySGV
      By all means do what is working best for you two, but just as a thought and hint, check with your local LGBTQ center and see if they have clothing swap days for Trans people.  I know it says swap, but the one at one of the centers I am part of simply has the clothing for free, some of it is donated new by local sewing shops that produce high end clothing and have production overruns too.  It is wonderful to hear that the two of you are comfortable and happy to do that for now. 
    • MomTGDaughter
      My 15 year old M2F daughter is now just about the same size as me, has outgrown her original wardrobe (she transitioned at 12) and are now sharing outfits. It helps that I have over 30 outfits in my in my closet and now it has become a shared closet for both of us. This has truly helped on expenses as it's very costly as it is having a transgender daughter. I know this is not for everyone as each has their own situations, but food for thought for those are in a position to be clothes sharing. 
    • VickySGV
      Welcome to the Forums, your story is very much like the ones we hear often.  Gender Dysphoria is a condition that is Consistent, Persistent, and in time VERY Insistent.  Dive on in and join in conversations and read up on what has helped others the most.
    • JJ_Blossom
      Hey y'all ima dive right in. I first realized I was trans like fully accepted at age 24 I was going to transition my wife was supporting so on and so on. She then cheated on me and outed me to the world and I put a clamp on this and swore it'd never return we'll 8 years later it's back and crippled me. I've got a beautiful family a wife and 2 kids 10 & 12 my own business and an Uber tatted and ripped masculine body but here we go again I can't even think straight or focus I wan't to be a woman FUUUUUCK I am seeing a therapist every 2 weeks and used her as my excuse to dress again I can't even hardly function help any input??
    • Astrid
      I started on estrogen patches at 71, 2 3/4 years ago. No problems, but it's important to do this under a doctor's supervision with tests to monitor E & T levels.
    • Maddee
      ITS A GiRL✨💥💕 @Bri2020 Happiness and excellent healing to you sister!!   Glad your daughter has somewhere to go and be safe.    Rest easy, right? 😊 🌈🌈
    • Kasumi63
      Hi. I recently had voice feminization surgery with Dr. Haben in Rochester, NY. There's another thread with a woman who wasn't so happy with the results, so check out that discussion, too. I agree with what most of the people above said. This surgery is probably one of the riskier ones, but I really wanted to have it done. I'm only about a month and a half post-op, so I still have a couple of months (or more) before I can really judge the results. I'm quite satisfied with the results, however. My pitch is noticeably higher and that's what I was aiming for. My voice is still a bit weak, but I only just started talking, so I feel confident that that will improve. I thought Dr. Haben did a good job. If you decide to get this surgery make sure you have plenty of time to recover. Good luck with whatever you decided. 
    • Hannah Renee
      I, too, started a couple of months before turning 69. I have as family history of cardiac issues, no including heart attacks, and my I have 3 cardiac stents myself. I'm on a blood thinner, and I take me estrogen pills sublingually to minimize adverse effects. Working well for me so far, 15 months in. Cardio workup in the spring was all systems go.
    • KathyLauren
      COngratulations, @Bri2020!!
    • CD Rachel
      @Bri2020 congratulations! glad you are doing well.
    • Mmindy
      That’s fantastic Bri, I’m so happy for you.  Ow it’s time to follow your care team advice and follow ups.   Hugs,   Mindy🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.


Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules


Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.


Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
  • Create New...