What are your opinions on "feminine" things?

[Ivy]

3 hours ago, Robin said:

The majority of women carry a handbag, so they don't have the need for large amounts of storage space in their clothing. 

I do like my handbag.  It is just big enough that I can actually squeeze my laptop (MacBook Air) into it if I want.  And of course there is a bunch of other stuff it's nice to have handy.  Back in my guy days, anything like that would have required a bag of some kind anyway.

Having said that, it is pretty nice to have at least enough pocketage for a cellphone when at home or on visits.  I prefer looser clothing anyway, and I find that many skirts or dresses have discreet pockets in the seams.  It's usually considered a selling point.  

I have resorted to slipping my small cellphone into a sports bra at times.

[Zelaire]

This must be why my grandma always carried her tissues/handkerchief in the sleeve of her sweater or sweatshirt. ☺️ Any place you can stash small necessities.

 

Interesting insights about hobbies, Robin! I've been lucky to know a number of women throughout my life with hobbies and personal interests, and not having grown up and lived as a woman, exposure to that pressure is something I only know second hand, so I didn't realize how it could steal this part of a person's life. Ironically, I've seen a few examples on the male side, too, but they seem sort of conditional or self-imposed in a way your examples aren't. When my parents divorced, for example, my father resumed active participation in a couple hobbies he hadn't in years, and said to me he'd given them up to focus on the family. Of course, he's also kind of a raging narcissist, so the truth is probably not so clear. I've also known many Japanese men through my life, having taught English abroad and later marrying a Japanese woman and having many friends among Japanese or mixed-nationality couples. Conversations with many of these guys I know can be so hard sometimes. If it's not about work, it's almost as though they can't come up with anything to say. When they have a hobby, it's usually a single laser-focused interest in one traditionally male thing. I don't like to traffic in stereotypes, mind you. My point is that I think it's the socio-cultural pressures that have also driven hobbies and non-"productive" interests out of them.

 

I think we'd all be a lot happier and more effective in our various roles and duties if we could choose them and pursue passions without judgement.

[Ivy]

As I was walking by the river this morning I got to thinking about how over my lifetime I've had a number of interests, and then moved on to something else.  Some were stereotypical "male," others not so.  

 

I had always considered it as a bit of character flaw on my part for not being consistent.  But I'm coming to see it as a desire for many different experiences.  I get into a thing for awhile (several years) and then move on to something else.

 

I've always been the "Jack of All Trades" (and master of none) type.  While I would not consider myself an expert at anything, I have a broad skill set.

 

I suppose I am rambling here.  I saw something recently that said that every 10 yrs you are a completely different person.  Probably not entirely, but it is something to think about.  I know I'm much different than 10 yrs ago me.

[Zelaire]

I think that's great, @Jandi--variety and breadth of interests feed into each other, imo. Single-mindedness may ultimately be self-defeating, right? Like shouting into an echo chamber; you only hear yourself.

You reminded me btw, with your comment about "10 years," of a favorite quote I posted in a lengthier message on a different thread here a couple weeks ago: "We all change, when you think about it. We're all different people, all through our lives. And that's okay, that's good. You gotta keep moving. So long as you remember all the people you used to be."

Maybe that's a bit off-topic for this thread. Except that it's from Doctor Who, and sci-fi is another one of those things that's classically gendered in society and that absolutely has no reason to be. 😜

[Sol]

Honestly I've started trying to get all my hobbies back from lack of motivation and life stuff. I like to write, I like to bake, I like playing certain sports (tennis is my favorite). And all of this stuff is weirdly gendered. Thankfully, when I actually played tennis, the instructors didn't pull any gendered crap.

[Zelaire]

7 hours ago, Sol said:

I've started trying to get all my hobbies back

That's awesome, Sol! 

(I'm a dismal tennis player, btw, but I dig it, too.) 😄

[Parker_23]

Feminine outfits are my go-to, even though I'm FtM. I feel like I fall under the femboi aesthetic. Is that weird?

[Sol]

Nope! I like some feminine clothes too, with some exceptions. But no, I don't think it's weird. 

[Zelaire]

I imagine this is the last forum on the internet where somebody might find that weird. ❤️

I just watched this PhilosophyTube episode about social constructs, which seems conveniently related, so I'll share the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koud7hgGyQ8&t=261s

(Thanks @Ticket For Epic for cluing me in to her channel!)

[Ivy]

I always enjoy Abigail's videos.    

[Zelaire]

I'm a huge fan of her now! Watched so many episodes... 😊

 

And btw, on the topic of "feminine" things... My nails have gotten a bit long over the past week of neglect, so tonight I opted to shape them instead of clip them. Nothing anybody else will or needs to notice, but for me, I was surprised by just how much quiet joy that brought me. It must be the little cultural cue it gives the brain to say "yep, here's a match" more than the nails themselves. ❤️

[Samuel William]

On 4/13/2022 at 8:14 PM, Kelly2509 said:

We are curating our own chunk of reality and we have agency in the world.

I love the way you’ve phrased this! It’s definitely an idea I’ve been working through in my own life - choosing and shaping the man I want to be rather than just blindly following the AFAB stereotypes people expect from me or buying into all of the masculine stereotypes I see all around me. Your word ‘curating’ says what I’ve been trying to articulate to myself so much clearer than anything I’ve managed!

[Sol]

25 minutes ago, Samuel William said:

choosing and shaping the man I want to be rather than just blindly following the AFAB stereotypes people expect from me or buying into all of the masculine stereotypes I see all around me.

This right here. I've been struggling with this again, and I've had thoughts of "well, if I'm okay with having a vag and wanting a-cups, does that invalidate me being a man?" But then I have to remind myself "Liking parts of my body is okay. If people don't get that, that's their problem." I still get caught up in it sometimes, but I just hope and pray it'll get better. 

Stereotypes suck, man.

[Sally Stone]

Great topic Sol, and so many great comments, I am thinking there isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said.  I'll post my two-cents anyway.

 

I have always been a girly-girl.  I adore styles and looks that are generally considered uber-feminine.  I don't apologize for it, because these "feminine things" make me feel happy and complete.  A couple of you have already commented on this but I whole-heartedly agree that the feminine style I present, the clothing I wear, I wear for myself, not for others. 

 

It takes a tremendous amount of effort for me to look girly and to maintain the look, but I consider it a labor of love.  In the end, my feminine sense of style gives me great confidence and has always bolstered my self-esteem.   

 

It might be feminine, it might be masculine, or it could even be androgynous, whatever your sense of style, if it makes you feel right, then it's the style for you.

[Kelly2509]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:46 PM, Samuel William said:

I love the way you’ve phrased this! It’s definitely an idea I’ve been working through in my own life - choosing and shaping the man I want to be rather than just blindly following the AFAB stereotypes people expect from me or buying into all of the masculine stereotypes I see all around me. Your word ‘curating’ says what I’ve been trying to articulate to myself so much clearer than anything I’ve managed!

🥰

[NashySlashy]

Honestly, as somebody who was born female and is now in the process of transitioning, I'm not entirely bothered by some feminine things. Dresses, for instance. I can wear a dress and feel comfortable...

 

...with this being said, I HATE make-up being worn on my face. Painting my nails is a thing I'm not into, either. I never do anything with my hair except dye it and cut it short. I hate anything that shows off my body.

 

I guess it just depends on everyone's taste. Nothing wrong with being masculine and liking feminine things.

[Russ Fenrisson]

This has been an interesting topic to read into. What I've seen and learned in the past about gendered items, especially hair-care products, is that they only appear masculine or feminine only if the person using said item applies such a label to it. This has been very well discussed in this post and its interesting to see how people reacted to such a notion.

 

For me, I think feminine things are interesting, but I don't use a lot of them. I don't mind leave-in conditioner or hair spray because those items work really well for me and smell nice but pretty much everything else I leave that to those who enjoy using them. I like the look of certain dresses and skirts but ever since I was a child I've usually avoided them. They can be airy and comfortable but I don't feel like getting into any situation that might invite unwanting eyes...

 

I do have to agree though: tranditional men's clothing is very simple and not colorful. You'd have to go to a specialty store or thrift store to find something that's not drab and generic. 

 

In regards to clothing, I've always been a fan of the androgynous kind. When it's findable, you have less pressure to feel more this or that- you can just be yourself.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I don't really care for feminine things most of the time.  Not so much because they are feminine, but because what society calls "feminine" is frequently inefficient, superfluous, expensive, sexist, or meant to enhance female sex appeal. 

 

Skirts and dresses - no thanks.  If I need air in my undercarriage, I just won't wear clothes.  Solves that problem.  Jewelry, bright colors, and flashy stuff...I have no need to show off.  I mostly dress in neutral colors.  Handbags are sexist...I don't like carrying stuff, but if I do I'll wear something that has pockets. 

 

Mostly my fashion is minimal and androgynous.  In summer, shorts and T-shirt if I even bother.  Not sure if going naked is masculine or feminine  😆  In winter, jeans, random shirts, and a hoodie or coat.  Ball cap.  Grass sandals or moccasins in summer (I make them.)  The world's rattiest sneakers in winter.  I'd be shocked if what I wear on a daily basis cost more than $20 altogether even when new, and I mostly get stuff at the thrift store.   I guess I just don't care much for material things in general. 

 

On the bright side, going from "girl" to "boy" in how I live has been easy.  I got rid of a few underwear items and that was about it. 

[Russ Fenrisson]

@awkward-yet-sweet Making your own shoes sounds cool. How do you make the moccassins? I've heard of the process of weaving them before using any straw or tree bark you can find, and I've just been interested in the process in general.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

3 hours ago, Russ Fenrisson said:

@awkward-yet-sweet Making your own shoes sounds cool. How do you make the moccassins? I've heard of the process of weaving them before using any straw or tree bark you can find, and I've just been interested in the process in general.

Moccasins and sandals are naturally unisex footwear, which is nice.  Of course, with my small feet, it is kind of obvious which ones are mine.  I weave the sandals out of tall grass from the field.  In mid summer the grass is super thick, and works pretty well for sandals and baskets.  The moccasins...well they aren't made like Native American footwear.  The concept is similar, though.  I usually use worn-out denim fabric from work jeans, and cardboard.  Looks a lot like cheap house slippers.  Not waterproof at all either.  I'd run barefoot all the time if we didn't have spiky, thorny grass. 

[Russ Fenrisson]

@awkward-yet-sweetWhatever works as long as its functional. Sounds pretty fun to make.

[JordanG]

I'd love to wear Makeup like on Glow Up on Netflix, the full face designs are so androgynous! However Make-up makes my eyes water.

[Alexis MR]

Through history what was considered feminine has been changing, with proves that it's mostly a social construct and nothing to do with the difference between the genres. I like a lot of things that today we call feminine: I have long hair, I have a very artistic wardrobe, I use a lot of jewelry and I even do some items myself. I also have a very powerful beard and no one ever said to me I'm femenine xd I find when people are free to be themselves, they usualy never fit the stereotype of masculine or feminine. 

[NoEli6]

I really enjoy feminine clothes generally, as far as looks go. Fit and practicality are another thing, but women's clothes win in the looks department for me. They tend to have more choices and are generally more fun and stylish- this goes 100× over for jewelry. Hell knows I don't want to wear JUST a silver chain and plain black ring (though a plain black ring on my middle finger would be nice to have ♠️)but only women get the pretty things! As a guy, I definitely enjoy looking sharp in a suit, but I find skirts to be quite fun to wear from time to time. The main reason I don't often wear dresses and skirts as I am currently is because I'm pre-op and pre-T and I'm positive that I'd only be seen as a girl if I wore a skirt. That being said, sometimes I build up the confidence to put one on despite people's opinions, but I always feel like I'm implicitly lying by telling them I'm a girl, haha. Not that I mean to, but I know that's how most people would take it. Also, I feel ya with the aroace stuff. Though luckily my family believes me by now when I tell them all that I won't ever have kids. And misogynists just think that household jobs/chores are for women, including cooking and baking. I'm fairly sure that's why it's seen as feminine, just 'cause misogyny.