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mtf hrt in the closet


Ticket For Epic

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I'd like to preface (that's how you spell that?!  Who knew?) this by saying that I know everyone responds differently, at different rates and with a staggering range of ultimate outcomes, so I would take any reply with a grain of salt.  That said, how long might someone have before they start to raise eyebrows amongst those aren't "in the know", but have known you for years.  And how long might someone have before... say... a lesbian leaning bisexual sister that married a trans man and has been close friends with several (trans men) but has (I'm relatively sure) had little interaction with trans women, (same for me, runs in the family I guess) start to ask questions, if at all?  Though I'm assuming that's unlikely.

 

Why is this one so hard to hit submit on!?  Huge wave of anxiety!

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After I started HRT, it was about two months before the girls had grown enough that they were at risk of being noticeable.  By that time, I needed to wear a bra.  (Not for support: five years later, I still struggle to fill an A cup.  More for motion control.)  I was able to hide it under thick winter shirts, but as the weather warmed in spring, that became less of a possibility. 

 

The final straw was playing in a concert band's spring concert.  The uniform was white top/black bottom.  There was no way to hide a bra under a white shirt, so I had to go out and buy a (man's) white tank top to go under it to hide the bra. 

 

Shortly thereafter, I ended the charade and came out, exactly three months after starting HRT.

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Given all the usual caveats, I'd say the 8-12 months is a good range for when "the girls" might become visible.

 

Carolyn Marie

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I think I was in @Carolyn Marie's range of about 12 months when I really could benefit from a bra and the motion control that @KathyLauren mentioned.

 

That said, I'm now at the 2 1/2-year HRT point, and I like that I can still choose to accentuate my boobs (by wearing a conventional bra), have gentle curves (by wearing a sports bra), or pretty much hide my boobs (by wearing a tight camisole under a shirt); this allows me freedom to dress as I want, depending on the occasion and place.  (I identify as non-binary, so I may have a bit different rationale than MtF folks.)

 

Astrid

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If you mean anyone suspecting you are trans, really seems it's like the last thing people guess. Like they may notice the changes, but no connecting the dots. So you can be confident in continually being misgendered.

Another change is in the face when the skin starts to glow and look younger and feminize and people might ask you about your regimen or how in the heck you are growing younger? 

so you may have to invent a routine

 

 

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It might be relevant to mention that I am and have always been built like an elite athlete.  I don't workout but due to the muscle memory I developed as a professional ballet dancer in my youth I merely have to think about activity to build muscle.  I'm 5' 9 1/2",  roughly 170lbs, hover around 9-11 percent bodyfat (according to the navy method)  42 inch bust 30 inch waist 14 inch arms, a constant 6 pack and to top it all a off vacularity and muscular striations.  I look like I live in the gym. 

 

I'm not concerned about the world a large really, just those that know me...  family, employer and especially my sister who I mentioned is married to a trans man and so is at least in part in the know.  I'm almost certain he is catching on and that is a touch terrifying.   He gave me and my sister a group hug a while back after he made a joke about dysphoria and said "At least  you guys were born in the right body", then looked me square in the eyes and said... "right ~name I hate~"  and held my gaze until I broke looked at the floor and gave the weakest "yea...".   Awkward!   I may just be paranoid but if anyone is going to see through me...

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58 minutes ago, Hannah Renee said:

I confess I'm curious about your sister. Would it not be safe to be able to confide in her, at least?

Just reading the put my heart in my throat and stomach on the floor...  genuinely nauseated!!!! 

 

Biggest reason?...  self doubt.  I'm 42 and my egg suddenly, violently and unexpectedly exploded 8 months ago.  To the point I started taking that "rapid onset" bull-shirt seriously for a minute (for the record...  I don't).  I keep flip-flopping between "how could I have been so blind, all the signs where there?" To "This is crazy, where is all this coming from?". 

 

Wow, I am actively hyperventilating right now!

 

I just thought I was a passionate ally that used to crossdress.  Granted only when costumes were appropriate.  There are a litany of other signs as well but I'm not looking to write a book here. 

 

There was one tiny moment in my mid 20's where I think I was just about to say "hold up" but my girlfriend introduced me to Eddie Izzard and when I heard him say "executive transvestite" that was it...  i grew a beard, clung to "executive transvestite"  like a life preserver and never for second looked back. 

 

I had my one and only "purge" 15 years ago but never let go of the transvestite label and would wouldn't hesitate to admit to if the topic arose.

 

I was extraordinarily effeminate as teen and young adult (my early childhood is a blank aside from a flash here or there,until about 12) and I was told by everyone in the queer(I was dubbed "honorary gay" more times than I can count) community that they couldn't wait for me to come out of the closet...  so I've been waiting for the gay, even tried a couple times... couldn't rise to the occasion, lol(so sorry, could help myself) 

 

I don't know...  it think I've been conflating gender and sexuality all my life.  I wonder if I were attracted to men if I would have realized sooner? 

 

I think I just need to see a gender psychologist a few times and hear a professional tell me I'm not crazy, it's not in my head. 

 

For the record, (I don't think I have ever admitted to this in my life)  I am not okay.  I'm not in danger of self harm or anything (gave that up in my 20's) but I am slowly drowning not quite meeting my obligations but failing to the point it's raising red flags to others, just quietly slipping away.

 

Well that dark aaaaaaaand I'm out before I lose the nerve to hit send.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ticket For Epic said:

obligations but failing to the point it's raising red flags to others,

*obligations but NOT failing*  (that's contextually important! )   we need an edit feature

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30 minutes ago, Ticket For Epic said:

I think I just need to see a gender psychologist a few times and hear a professional tell me I'm not crazy, it's not in my head. 

Honestly @Ticket For Epic my egg cracked spectacularly just as I hit my 40th Birthday and I had many of the same worries. I spent ages wondering how much was in my head and how much was me just hiding from my problems. Talking out loud with a counsellor helped a lot, and once I had spoken to someone out loud it made telling others so much easier, just start with people that you know are affirming. HRT has helped with the mental background noise so I could start thinking about day to day things again.

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29 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

my egg cracked spectacularly just as I hit my 40th Birthday and I had many of the same worries.

You have no idea (or perhaps you do!)  How much I needed to read that! 

 

Everytime I turn around I hear about or come across someone who told their mom when they we're 4 or some crap like that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/29/2022 at 12:34 PM, DeeDee said:

Honestly @Ticket For Epic my egg cracked spectacularly just as I hit my 40th Birthday and I had many of the same worries. I spent ages wondering how much was in my head and how much was me just hiding from my problems. Talking out loud with a counsellor helped a lot, and once I had spoken to someone out loud it made telling others so much easier, just start with people that you know are affirming. HRT has helped with the mental background noise so I could start thinking about day to day things again.

Dee you’re right about talking out loud to someone. Since my first therapist appointment last Thursday all I’ve wanted to do was talk to people more 

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2 hours ago, Limitededition said:

I spent ages wondering how much was in my head and how much was me just hiding from my problems. Talking out loud with a counsellor helped a lot, and once I had spoken to someone out loud it made telling others so much easier, just start with people that you know are affirming.

My moment of truth came at 67, your description exactly describes my mental gymnastics to insist what I'm feeling is not real just in my head. Once you acknowledge it even a little bit so much of that noise fades away.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello to everyone participating on this thread.

I have a few concerns myself that seem to fit this topic so I'll respond with a few questions and concerns of my own and hopefully someone can help put my mind at ease or change my mind before I go to far. Hopefully this won't be to long so I'll apologize now just in case.....

 

I grew up in a middle class family, one that I later found out was dysfunctional but being little I had no idea of what was going on behind closed doors between the parents. Needless to say I grew up with 2 older sisters and 1 younger sister. As I can recall growing up I was not the boy next door type and didn't fit in well with the other boys in my town but I wasn't overly feminine either. I just didn't really fit in for whatever the reason was. Keep in mind I was born in 1965 so by the time I became of age to start school at age 5 it was 1970 and the bulk of my growing up took place in the 70's.

 

I remember at age 6 my mother and her friend dressed me up as a little girl for the school Halloween parade and party. I remember putting up a big fuss and crying that I didn't want to be a girl and I wanted to be a scary monster, but they continued to dress me up as a little girl. After I settled down and realized there was no way out of this I just went with it. To my surprise by the end of that day I enjoyed being dressed like I was and eventually played dress up with my older sisters when ever we "played house"....I usually ended up as the baby girl because I fit into my little sisters clothes. After a few times of me being dressed as a baby girl I began to like it until the day my oldest sister lied to my mother and told her that I dress up all the time and for her to go upstairs and have a look. Needless to say my sister didn't tell my mother we were playing and that they actually dressed me this way. To my mothers dismay she found her son dressed like a little baby girl and having a good time. She stood at the door long enough to see for herself that I was enjoying it so at that point she yelled at me, which startled me, "what the hell do you think you are doing... so my son is a sissy baby?" In the 70's or at least in my town, that was the word they used for what I was seen doing. I remember getting the paddle on my butt and was kept dressed like a little girl for the night so my father could get to see me when he got home from work. Which I don't have to tell you did not bode well for me. I got punished again with a belt and put into my sisters crib for the next few days. I had no idea my older sister told my mother at the time so I eventually got talked into playing "house" again and again. I liked it, I don't know why but I did. I was eventually outed again several times and my mother simply gave in and said if you want to dress like a sissy go right ahead. The dress up game ended a few years later when my older sisters got to old to play but the idea of dressing was implanted into my brain. I didn't cross dress for many many years and in fact totally pushed it out of my head for a very very long time. Fast forward and a lot of other painful stories from over the years....I'm now 56 years old and I started to cross dress again about 5 years ago. I have purged several times over that period of time until the last time 2 years ago when I actually cried after I threw everything away. I ended up going out not long after and started buying things again a little at a time. Then some sort of switch clicked in and being a cross dresser or a "sissy" was no longer good enough and I began to research transitioning. In 2020 I bought HRT drugs online and began to self medicate. I felt validated in my own mind and it made me feel good, however I stopped because the risks were to high to do on my own and I put it aside for awhile. I ended up going to a doctor who did all the required paperwork and ran blood tests on me and later in the week I was put on HRT. I do <some> estradiol and <some> spironolactone twice a day for a total of <some> estradiol and <some> of spiro and have been on this dose for a couple of months. I go back for a follow up in August.

 

Now the questions....

First of all I don't think I could ever pass. I've lost to much hair on my head and I have a very deep voice like very deep. I don't think there are enough vocal coaches out there, nor the amount of time required to ever fix my man voice.

 

However I still feel the need to be on HRT and after a few months I can honestly say I have no side effects from the medications plus I take 3 other medications for my heart. I had a heart attack 5 years ago and had a stent put in so I'm on a few drugs for blood pressure and blood thinners but my doctor says that the HRT meds will work fine with my other medications so there is no need to worry.

 

My question or questions are:

Is it possible to be on HRT and never come out of the closest?

Is the dosage my doctor put me on normal to start with and will the dosages get even higher?

Without changing my voice or changing the way I present which is currently "male" simply because I have no choice at this point and I have a job that I don't want to lose.

How long will it be before I can no longer hide what is happening to my body ie: breast growth.

Speaking of breast growth, I already have a bit of a puffy chest even before starting HRT although hidden by my shirts, but is that a good platform for real breast growth that I will eventually not be able to hide....if so how long do you think it will be before that happens? I have had several boughts of tingling sensation in my breasts area and nipples already and one episode of being "itchy" up there.

 

Lastly....how long does it take before HRT begins to kill erections and eventually shrink my testies? I have already discussed a possible orchiectomy with my doctor at the very first visit. The main reason is to not have to be on to many drugs for long periods of time. The reason for the erection question is I want any chances of that happening to stop....forever and I hate my testicles.

 

In closing, I have no idea why or where going from a part time cross dresser turned into the need to transition but the urge came on strong and will not go away. I felt great when I self medicated and it hurt me when I had to stop for safety reasons and now being put on HRT by a real doctor sort of validates that I should be on it anyway.

 

Hopefully I didn't hi-jack the thread but my story and issues seem to align with the original posters questions.

 

Thank you all for your time to read this and any answers or advice.

John.....secretly "Jennifer"

Edited by Jackie C.
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Hi Jennifer, your story is one that resonates! I grew up happily playing with my sisters and with a dad that was less than impressed when he caught me in their clothes when he came home, then sometimes buying and throwing out clothes as an adult. Everything imploded when I turned 40 and I went and found someone and started the process of counselling, and am now transitioning.

I wear wigs for my own peace of mind and have had no issues, my friends have been great accepting me as a woman; and while I haven't done voice coaching, with practice you can do a lot for your voice if you choose, it's not just high/low voices! Listen to Nina Simone, Etta James, Toni Braxton and Anastacia!

We all have things about ourselves that we wish we could change, but so does every woman.

Don't let age and fear be the only things stopping you transitioning, the whole point is to get to a place where you are happy being you.

 

With regards to a couple of your questions:

Yes - not everyone who starts HRT transitions publicly, your med requirements and dosage are between you and your doctor as everyone is different.

As for growth. People tend to see what they want to see, so if they expect middle age spread and man boobs, that's what they see (under a shirt) I am still switching presentations, one for work and home, and one for friends and where I'm safe. I was told I looked like someone who knows their way around a gym recently because my breasts were taken for large pecs by the person doing the gym induction. Oddly my most manly compliment in years lol

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So first off, I'd like to remind @Jennifer-TG that we can't share dosages on the site. Your dosage of whatever you are taking is between you and your endo.

 

7 hours ago, Jennifer-TG said:

First of all I don't think I could ever pass. I've lost to much hair on my head and I have a very deep voice like very deep. I don't think there are enough vocal coaches out there, nor the amount of time required to ever fix my man voice.

 

You'd be surprised. It's more about resonance than pitch. You could easily turn that into a sultry feminine voice.

 

7 hours ago, Jennifer-TG said:

Is it possible to be on HRT and never come out of the closest?

 

Your chest might give you away at some point. Especially if you go shirtless. I mean, I have B-cups here and they do not look like man-boobs. 

 

7 hours ago, Jennifer-TG said:

Is the dosage my doctor put me on normal to start with and will the dosages get even higher?

 

 

Your doctor will find a dosage that gets you to female-normal T and E levels. Whatever dosage that is. We're all different and our bodies process different drugs at different rates.

 

7 hours ago, Jennifer-TG said:

How long will it be before I can no longer hide what is happening to my body ie: breast growth.

 

Speed of results varies WILDLY, but the official time-table is breast growth is complete within 2-6 years. Some of us go faster, some slower. Remember that ONE girl in 4th grade who came back from summer vacation with D cups? You might be her. There's no telling.

 

7 hours ago, Jennifer-TG said:

Lastly....how long does it take before HRT begins to kill erections and eventually shrink my testies? I have already discussed a possible orchiectomy with my doctor at the very first visit. The main reason is to not have to be on to many drugs for long periods of time. The reason for the erection question is I want any chances of that happening to stop....forever and I hate my testicles.

 

Again, results may vary. My testicles got smaller in the two years I was on spiro, but I never lost my ability to have an erection. What I DID lose was spontaneous erections which I saw as more of a feature than a bug. I can see wanting to drop the spiro though, I had to pee constantly.

 

So yeah, as a girl of similar vintage and experience (though I stole my mom's clothes, I don't have sisters), I see where you're coming from. The official timeline says all changes will be complete by year ten, but mileage varies greatly. I'd be concerned about the changes to your face as well if you don't want "anyone to know." Fat redistributes itself. Features change.

You might want to have a plan in place to transition at work is what I'm saying. Personally, where I work now, nobody has ever known me as anyone else and I absolutely love it.

 

Hugs!

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Thank you DeeDee and Jackie C for your input and comments and advice.

I'm sorry I mentioned my dosage in the original post. I didn't know that was a no no.

 

I suppose one of the issues I have with myself that I didn't mention above is mainly in my mind and my own self doubt. The main question I keep asking myself is....am I just a sissy or a cross dresser or should I continue heading down this path of transition regardless of what it looks like. Am I making the right decision or am I on a path of destroying the last years of my life chasing something I perhaps should have chased many years ago? I suppose the answer to the question would have been a definite yes back in my late teens early 20's but as of now, so many years have passed. The one thing that I can't put my finger on is why after all these years has this seemingly come from left field and began consuming my thoughts the majority of the time. The cross dressing was put away many many years ago and I never looked back and then out of the blue something triggered it to begin again 5 years ago. Then 2 years ago the transitioning question came into being and it has a grip on me. As I mentioned in my other post I self medicated for about 3 months or so in 2020 and out of fear of something bad happening medically I put it away on my own. Now in 2022 I have been to a new doctor who screened me with questions about my past, what I do currently and the next thing I knew I was taken to the lab and had blood work done and a few days later I got a call to go to the pharmacy and pick up my prescriptions and she will see me in 3 months. I'm now into month 2 and a half-ish....haven't missed a dose. Like I'm taking medication because a doctor prescribed it to me and I should do what the doctor says. Does that sound weird?

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40 minutes ago, Jennifer-TG said:

 Now in 2022 I have been to a new doctor who screened me with questions about my past, what I do currently and the next thing I knew I was taken to the lab and had blood work done and a few days later I got a call to go to the pharmacy and pick up my prescriptions and she will see me in 3 months. I'm now into month 2 and a half-ish....haven't missed a dose. Like I'm taking medication because a doctor prescribed it to me and I should do what the doctor says. Does that sound weird?

 

Jennifer, this raises questions in my mind.  Such as, why would your doctor prescribe HRT meds if you haven't seen a therapist yet, and apparently didn't directly tell them that you wanted to transition?  Also, why haven't you yet seen a gender therapist if you've already taken hormones and/or blockers and you seem to have serious doubts about whether transition is right for you, or whether you are or are not trans, or a cross dresser, or...?

 

Transition isn't something to do without some serious introspection and consideration of all that could come from it, be it family issues, work issues, health issues, etc.  If you don't yet know who you really are and why you want to transition, I urge you to a) see a gender therapist for at least a few sessions and b) talk to your doctor about stopping your meds while you figure things out.  Rushing into a life altering decision is not in your best interest.

 

Carolyn Marie

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3 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

 

Jennifer, this raises questions in my mind.  Such as, why would your doctor prescribe HRT meds if you haven't seen a therapist yet, and apparently didn't directly tell them that you wanted to transition?  Also, why haven't you yet seen a gender therapist if you've already taken hormones and/or blockers and you seem to have serious doubts about whether transition is right for you, or whether you are or are not trans, or a cross dresser, or...?

 

I went to a medical physicality that covers a wide range of medical practices and is also a place that is an informed consent location. The questions about my past and my current situation were fairly comprehensive and I didn't lie or hold anything back from her. I told her pretty much what I mentioned above as my back ground and what I have been doing over the past 5 years. She seemed to put together a picture in her own mind I suppose. The conversation in her office went on for 45 minutes or so before she escorted me to the lab where a tech took my blood. When I was done in the lab I was taken back to the examination room where I was originally and the Dr had a stack of paperwork sitting there. I was a tad bit lite headed and simply flipped the pages over on the clipboard and signed the bottom on the pages that required a signature without reading any of them. I know....that's stupid but I just wanted to get that stuff over with and move on to whatever was going to be next. There was nothing next, I signed the paperwork and she was very kind and attentive. She didn't try to rush me out of the office, she simply said ok sweety, that's it for now. I'll get the lab results back in 24 to 48 hours and I'll contact you once I've looked everything over. And as I mentioned above....it was like 3 or 4 days later I was called by one of her staff who told me to go to my pharmacy and pick up my prescriptions, take them exactly as prescribed and the doctor will see you back here in 90 days to go over your labs and to take more blood samples. That was that.....I have been on HRT for about 2 and a half months. No adverse effects and they are not conflicting my heart medications so technically, everything is ok.

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      orange cotton top n sashed jeans..wedges off now..torrid undies in light blue bra n lace panties   I'm trying minimum makeup..shrugs..well see hugs if you want them
    • Abigail Genevieve
      It was hot that August day, even in Hall J.  Hall J was a freshman dormitory, and Odie had just unpacked his stuff.  He sat on the edge of his bed.  He had made it. He was here, five hundred miles away from home.  His two roommates had not arrived, and he knew no one. His whole life lay ahead of him, and he thought of the coming semester with excitement and dread.   No one knew him.  No one. Suddenly he was seized with a desire to live out the rest of his life as a woman.  With that, he realized that he had felt that way for a long time.  He had never laughed when guys made jokes about women, and often he felt shut out of certain conversations.  He was neither effeminate nor athletic, and he had graduated just fine, neither too high in his class to be considered a nerd or low enough to not get into this college, which was more selective than many. He was a regular guy.  He had dated some, he liked girls and they liked him.  He had friends, neither fewer than most nor more than most.   Drama club in high school: he had so wanted to try out for female parts but something held him back.  He remembered things from earlier in his life: this had been there, although he had suppressed it. Mom had caught him carrying his sister's clothes to his room when he was eight, shortly before the divorce, and he got thoroughly scolded.  They also made sure it never, ever happened again. He had always felt like that had contributed somehow to the divorce, but it was not discussed, either.  He was a boy and that was the end of it.   Dad was part of that.  He got Odie every other weekend from the time of the divorce and they went hunting, fishing, boating, doing manly things because Dad thought he should be a man's man. The first thing that always happened was the buzz cut.  Dad was always somewhat disappointed in Odie, it seemed, but never said why.  He was a hard man and he had contempt for sissies, although that was never directed at Odie. Mom always said she loved him no matter what, but never explained what that meant.   Odie looked through the Freshman Orientation Packed.  Campus map.  Letter from the Chancellor welcoming him.  Same from the Dean.  List of resources: health center, suicide prevention, and his heart skipped a beat: transgender support.  There was something like that here?   He tore off a small piece of paper.  With sweating hands he wrote on it "I need to be a girl." He looked at it, tore it up and put the different pieces in different trash cans, even one in a men's room toilet the men on this floor shared. He flushed it and made sure it went down.  No one had seen him; he was about the first to arrive.   He returned to his room.   He looked in the mirror.  He was five-ten, square jawed, crew cut.  Dad had seen to it that he exercised and he had muscles.  No, he said to himself, not possible. Not likely.  He had to study and he had succeeded so far by pushing this sort of thing into the back of his mind or wherever it came from.   A man was looking back at him, the hard, tough man Dad had formed him to be, and there was absolutely nothing feminine about any of it.  With that, Odie rejected all this stuff about being trans.  There had been a few of those in high school, and he had always steered clear of them.  A few minutes later he met his roommates.
    • EasyE
      yes, i agree with this ... i guess my biggest frustrations with all this are: 1) our country's insistence to legislate everything with regards to morals ... 2) the inability to have a good, thorough, honest conversation which wrestles with the nuances of these very complex issues without it denigrating to name-calling or identity politics.  agreed again... i still have a lot to learn myself ... 
    • Abigail Genevieve
      It's been bugging me that the sneakers I have been wearing are 1) men's and 2) I need canvas, because summer is coming.  WM has a blue tax on shoes, don't you know? My protocol is to go when there is no one in the ladies' area because I get looks that I don't like, and have been approached with a 'can I help you sir' in a tone than means I need to explain myself, at which point i become inarticulate.   But I found these canvas shoes.  Looking at them, to see if they would pass as male, I realized they might not, and furthermore, I don't really care.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      My wife's nurse was just here.  It is a whole lot easier to relate to her as another woman than to negotiate m/f dynamics and feel like I have to watch myself as a male around her.  It dropped a lot of the tension off, tension that I thought entirely internal to myself, but it made interactions a whole lot better.     I read your post, so I thought I would go look.   In the mirror I did not see a woman; instead I saw all these male features.  In the past that has been enough for me to flip and say 'this is all stupid ridiculous why do I do this I am never going to do this again I am going to the basement RIGHT NOW to get men's stuff and I feel like purging'.  Instead I smiled, shrugged my shoulders and came back here.  Panties fit, women's jeans fit.  My T shirt says DAD on it, something I do not want to give up, but a woman might crazily steal hubby's t-shirt and wear it.  I steal my own clothes all the time.    But she is here, this woman I liked it when I saw her yesterday. and her day will come.  I hope to see her again.
    • April Marie
      So many things become easier when you finally turn that corner and see "you" in the mirror. Shedding the guilt, the fear, the questioning becomes possible - as does self-love - when that person looking back at you, irrespective of what you're wearing, is the real you.   I am so happy for you!! Enjoy the journey and where it leads you.
    • MaeBe
      I'm sure even the most transphobic parents would, too. What does it hurt if a child socializes outside of their family in a way that allows them to understand themselves better? I have encountered a handful of kids do the binary, non-binary, back to binary route and they got to learn about themselves. In the end, there may have been some social self-harm but kids are so darned accepting these days. And really, schools aren't policing pronouns, but the laws that are coming out are making them do so--and in turn requiring a report to a parent that may cause some form of harm to the child.   If the kid wants to lie to, or keep secrets from, their parents about their gender expressions, what does it say about the parents? Perhaps a little socialization of their thoughts will give them the personal information to have those conversations with them? So when they do want to have that conversation they can do so with some self-awareness. This isn't a parent's rights issue, it's about forcing a "moral code" onto schools that they must now enforce--in a way that doesn't appreciably assist parents or provide benefit to children.   So, a child that transitioned at 5 and now in middle/high school that is by all rights female must now go into a bathroom full of dudes? What about trans men, how will the be treated in the girl's restroom? I see a lot of fantasy predator fearmongering in this kind of comment. All a trans kid wants to do in a bathroom is to handle their bodily functions in peace. Ideally there would be no gendered restrooms or, at least, a valid option for people to choose a non-gendered restroom. However, where is the actual harm happening? A trans girl in a boy's room is going experience more harm than a girl being uncomfortable about a trans girl going into and out of a stall.   How about we teach our children that trans people aren't predators who are trying to game the system to eek out some sexual deviancy via loophole? How about we treat gender in a way that doesn't enforce the idea that girls are prey and boys are  predators? How about we teach them trans kids are just kids who want to get on with their day like everyone else?
    • Adrianna Danielle
      I hope so and glad he loves and accepts me for who I am
    • EasyE
      It is sad that we can't have more open and honest dialogue on these types of topics because there is worthy debate for sure. But instead we have become a country where the only goal is to seize political power and then legislate our particular agenda and views of morality.   Remember as you read my thoughts below, that I am transgender. OK? I am pro-trans. I am trans.   But my middle school aged daughter would be extremely uncomfortable using a school bathroom also used by a biological male, as would nearly all of her friends. That side has to be considered. It's not invalidating to a trans youth's experience to take that into account and hash out what is for the common good of as many people as possible. This is reality - one person's gender expression makes others uncomfortable, in all directions. And there is disagreement on the best way to handle these types of things.   Why can't we talk about these things openly, without the inevitable name-calling that follows, and let all sides have their input and work up suitable solutions? (I bet the kids, if left alone, would work up the best solutions)... Instead, we go straight to trying to pass laws, as if we need more of those!   And why wouldn't we want parents to know if their child has decided to change their pronouns? That's a big deal and parents are right to raise that as a concern. I certainly would want to know. Not that we need to legislate this, but I would have a hard time with school administrators who try to hide this from me. They are out of line. This is my child. Whether you like my viewpoints or not, I am the parent. Not the school.    Again, I am pro-trans. I am trans. At the same point, I recognize that validating a transgender individual's gender identity doesn't trump everything else in society. And sometimes I see that creeping into these discussions. Plus, we fight a losing battle if we have to have others' validation. We are never going to get it from everybody. Ever. Not even Jesus got it and He is God himself!   This country can be very beautiful as we each exercise our freedom to be who we are and let others do the same. But my freedom ends where yours begins and vice-versa. That requires self-sacrifice. Sometimes we have to fall back out of respect for others. Sometimes we have to let the parent be the parent even if we disagree with their politics.   My cry in the wilderness is just can we please have more open, honest dialogue where both sides try take the other's views into consideration and quit automatically going the legislative route to criminalize the other side's viewpoints.   Sorry for the rant but sometimes all of this wears me out... deep sigh... 
    • RaineOnYourParade
      Bite by bite, acrobatics in abdomen
    • Abigail Genevieve
      Yesterday when I put that shirt on I saw a woman looking back out of the mirror at me.  Usually I have looked and been very frustrated because I see a man where there should be a woman.  I was expecting to see a man wearing a woman's shirt, but it was a woman wearing a woman's shirt.   On the spectrum between intersex and trans, I am more thinking I am a lot more intersex than trans, and it is only a matter of time before my wife says "you need a bra" and then "you look like a woman!" She told me whatever I want to do is fine with her, she loves me no matter what, and I am thinking that there may be a lot more for her in this than she could possibly expect. I'm not pushing it with her.
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