A judge blocks the “Stop WOKE Act," a Florida law restricting how schools discuss race

[Betty K]

(PS: By “everyone” I mean everyone in the culture at large, not specifically in this thread.)

[Heather Nicole]

Dammit!!!! DAMMMITTTT!!!!!!! Ok, This is just purely to the mods/admids here and it probably means nothing:

 

Ok, I'm really about to cry now, I just wrote a big, long, like genuinely very level-headed and super-logical (I thought) response here that I was really, really super proud of, like FAR more than last night (which I was freaked out about), and how I felt I was making a purely logical point without being remotely at all personal (because I really genuinely didn't want it to be), and I was almost done and then I just saw a notification of a new post in this thread, and normally clicking that is no problem so I did, but when I did this time, it just happened to be a new second page in the thread so it went to that and erased everything I wrote. I know there used to be a certain feature of auto-repopulating this textbox with the last unsubmitted message, but recently it seems to only kick in on some rare occasional messages that I happened to have already posted. $%&^*)(&^%&😭 I already knew to not rely on the forum's built-in editor for messages, but the vast majority of the time it all works fine, and then at the worst possible time it all goes belly-up I give up. I got so sick of dealing with stupid garbage back as a coder/dev...and I still can;t escape these damnned machines

[Carolyn Marie]

12 minutes ago, Heather Nicole said:

so it went to that and erased everything I wrote. I know there used to be a certain feature of auto-repopulating this textbox with the last unsubmitted message, but recently it seems to only kick in on some rare occasional messages that I happened to have already posted.

 

I feel your pain, Heather, but we have no means to recover what you wrote if you didn't click the "Submit Reply" button, and even then I'm not sure we could.  It is the bane of everyone who ever put words into an electronic device, from the first Wang machine to now.  When it's gone, it's gone.  Sorry.

 

Carolyn Marie 

[Heather Nicole]

27 minutes ago, Carolyn Marie said:

 

I feel your pain, Heather, but we have no means to recover what you wrote if you didn't click the "Submit Reply" button, and even then I'm not sure we could.  It is the bane of everyone who ever put words into an electronic device, from the first Wang machine to now.  When it's gone, it's gone.  Sorry.

 

Carolyn Marie 

 

I know. I totally get it, I really do. My background is in exactly this sort of stuff, so I fully understand on a technical level, inside and out. I just needed to say so. I feel like that Looney Tunes episode where there's that frog that really is singing and dancing, but there's obviously no rational reason for anyone to remotely believe the slightest bit of it (ie "Yea, suuurree I had a meaningful point to make, yeah right!") Just feeling a big ol Murphy's law sting right now, that's all.

 

[Davie]

I object to words that identify and then objectify a group of people so they can be made into targets for hate speech. Eventually, they become dehumanizing words. Hate speech is a form of social violence that has been made illegal in many countries. "Woke" has become a version of this.

[Heather Nicole]

9 hours ago, Davie said:

Hate speech is a form of social violence that has been made illegal in many countries. "Woke" has become a version of this.

 

Why, in a trans space, of all places, does nobody seem capable of comprehending the basic, obvious FACTUAL REALITY that the right-wingnuts using "woke" negatively, HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED THE MEANING OF THE WORD!!!!!!!!

 

I'm done I have NO patience left for "PEOPLE", ANY humans!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 22, 2022 by Carolyn Marie
Attempt to avoid profanity filter deleted (Rule 11)

[Heather Nicole]

SOOOO tired of trying to be polite in this world that has ***ZERO*** regard or slightest comprehension of basic, untainted, untwisted logic!!!!!

[Betty K]

1 hour ago, Heather Nicole said:

 

Why, in a trans space, of all places, does nobody seem capable of comprehending the basic, obvious FACTUAL REALITY that the right-wingnuts using "woke" negatively, HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED THE MEANING OF THE WORD!!!!!!!!

 

Well yeah, that’s my point. That’s why I think it’s worth defining terms in an argument like this lest it degenerate into name calling.

[Ivy]

4 hours ago, Betty K said:

That’s why I think it’s worth defining terms in an argument like this lest it degenerate into name calling.

I think this is important.  If you want to discuss something, you have to agree on what you are actually discussing.

 

This the same problem with "gotcha" questions - demanding a simple answer to complicated questions.  Any answer will be wrong on some level.

[Vidanjali]

"Woke" originated in Black culture and refers to the call to wake up to the reality of social oppression. The term has been used prominently since the 1960s and the concept helped to drive the 1960s Civil Rights movement. 

 

The term "woke" became more popular across cultures after the killing of George Floyd in 2020, and subsequently became weaponized by the far-right to mean the opposite: opposition to social justice.

 

The weaponization of such terms is done deliberately and intentionally. For instance, the vilification of "CRT" was masterminded by 

Chris Rufo, who became a senior fellow at the right-leaning Manhattan Institute. 

He has tweeted that his intentions are to implicate all progressive ideas about race with CRT in order to make them unpopular:

“We have successfully frozen their brand — ‘critical race theory’ — into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.” 

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2022/03/28/how-woke-became-weaponized-in-the-culture-wars/

 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/09/22/republicans-invite-critical-race-theory-evangelist-for-hearing-on-education-bills/

[Vidanjali]

3 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

"Woke" originated in Black culture and refers to the call to wake up to the reality of social oppression. The term has been used prominently since the 1960s and the concept helped to drive the 1960s Civil Rights movement. 

 

The term "woke" became more popular across cultures after the killing of George Floyd in 2020, and subsequently became weaponized by the far-right to mean the opposite: opposition to social justice.

 

The weaponization of such terms is done deliberately and intentionally. For instance, the vilification of "CRT" was masterminded by 

Chris Rufo, who became a senior fellow at the right-leaning Manhattan Institute. 

He has tweeted that his intentions are to implicate all progressive ideas about race with CRT in order to make them unpopular:

“We have successfully frozen their brand — ‘critical race theory’ — into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.” 

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2022/03/28/how-woke-became-weaponized-in-the-culture-wars/

 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/09/22/republicans-invite-critical-race-theory-evangelist-for-hearing-on-education-bills/

 

...meant to link this as well

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory

[Betty K]

That is brilliant @Vidanjali. I hadn’t heard of Chris Rufo. It looks like I have some reading to do.

 

It’s scary to think that language can be deliberately engineered like that.

[Vidanjali]

On 8/22/2022 at 5:09 PM, Betty K said:

That is brilliant @Vidanjali. I hadn’t heard of Chris Rufo. It looks like I have some reading to do.

 

It’s scary to think that language can be deliberately engineered like that.

 

Chris Rufo has since gone on to target LGBTQ+ folks. These are unabashedly deliberate and concentrated efforts to weaponize language in order to vilify. This article is a few months old, but I've been seeing Rufo's name pop up again recently, so keeping y'all in the know. Don't believe the hype! 

https://rvamag.com/gay-rva/manufacturing-hysteria-activist-who-weaponized-crt-tells-conservatives-to-make-drag-queens-more-lurid.html

[Ivy]

 

"Rufo is also willing to cross moral lines that no US propagandist in recent times has been willing to cross, and this ruthlessness is also key to his particular genius.

— Jason Stanley (@jasonintrator) June 17, 2022"

 

This is an evil person.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Weaponizing language is nothing new...it has been practiced by all sides in all periods of history.  If anything, the Chris Rufo quotes in the article are an honest explanation of method.  An odd move for a propagandist, and amusing to study.  It is also interesting to see how a side's label for their own cause/people creates an assumption about their opposition. 

 

"Woke."  Assumes the opposition is asleep or unaware.

"Pro-Choice."  Opposed side is thus anti-choice.

"Pro-Life."  Opposite side is assumed to be anti-life or pro-death. 

"Progressive."  Opposite side is assumed to be against progress, or regressive. 

 

My husband teaches politics, civics, and military theory to our community's youth.  I sometimes show up at one of his evening classes, and I remembered this quote from the Nazi propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels:

 

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals.  For the intellectuals would never be converted, and anyways would always yield to the stronger.  And this will always be "the man in the street."  Arguments must therefore be crude, clear, and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect.  Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology." 

 

Most of the public can't see their way past what they're fed from CNN, NBC, or FOX.  The media is all tactics and psychology.  Fear the day when the Left and Right heads of the snake point in the same direction.

 

[Vidanjali]

Just when you think the dystopia can't get more dystopian, Rufo has now appointed by DeSantis to New College board of directors. This, after initiating a plan to audit and gut FL colleges & universities DEI professional development programs.

 

New College is a small, liberal honors college where students are encouraged to experiment and develop their own academic paths. I have many brilliant friends who went there. 

 

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/politics/2023/01/06/gov-ron-desantis-wants-conservative-overhaul-at-new-college-of-florida/69784941007/

[Ivy]

For these people, propaganda is more important than actual education.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

15 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

Just when you think the dystopia can't get more dystopian, Rufo has now appointed by DeSantis to New College board of directors. This, after initiating a plan to audit and gut FL colleges & universities DEI professional development programs.

 

New College is a small, liberal honors college where students are encouraged to experiment and develop their own academic paths. I have many brilliant friends who went there. 

 

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/politics/2023/01/06/gov-ron-desantis-wants-conservative-overhaul-at-new-college-of-florida/69784941007/

 

Rufo is kind of an odd choice for this, since he's definitely a lightning rod for controversy.  You'd think they'd appoint somebody with some education experience...but since a lot of professors don't have training in how to teach, I suppose it isn't surprising. 

 

Hopefully Larry Arnn will have some moderating influence in this.  Hillsdale seems to be a solid institution overall, and they've contributed quite a bit of free curriculum material to schools in my area.  I don't think that modifying higher education and removing federal influence would be a bad thing overall. 

 

 

 

[Vidanjali]

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Rufo is kind of an odd choice for this,

 

Imo, it's a match made in hell. 

 

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

since he's definitely a lightning rod for controversy. 

 

He's controversial because he's actively and unabashedly anti-civil rights, racist and transphobic. 

 

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

You'd think they'd appoint somebody with some education experience...but since a lot of professors don't have training in how to teach, I suppose it isn't surprising. 

 

Professors are experts in their respective fields & are generally passionate about helping others to expand their knowledge and learn how to think critically. Moreover, professors continue to hone their expertise throughout their careers via research, collaboration and professional development. 

 

Rufo appears to be passionate about spreading lies and tearing people down. 

 

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I don't think that modifying higher education and removing federal influence would be a bad thing overall.

 

Higher ed is modified by higher ed professionals on an ongoing basis. Whereas many such modifications are often nuanced and not sensational, the general public may not be aware. 

 

There does need to be a better balance concerning government influence - the higher ed professionals who are in contact with students every day, who are passionate about education, and who are experts in their field have had decreasing influence, especially in Florida. 

 

Not all professors are perfect. But, by and large people do not go into the field of higher ed for the glamor or salary; they are generally altruistic and driven by a calling to help others. 

 

If you read up on New College in particular, you find it's known for attracting and graduating "free thinkers, risk takers & trail blazers" - all qualities antithetical to people like DeSantis and Rufo. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

55 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

He's controversial because he's actively and unabashedly anti-civil rights, racist and transphobic.

 

 

Transphobic is a given...but disagreeing with CRT and DEI isn't racist or anti-civil rights.  That's hyperbole.  "Liberal" universities seem to accept CRT and DEI as come kind of dogma for the faithful, which is exactly the opposite of liberal free/critical thinking. 

 

The overt leftism/socialism, corruption, and indoctrination in higher education is no secret.  Professors are forced to follow along, or they don't have a job.  There's little freedom to disagree.  My husband's father was a professor at a premier public university in the 80's and early 90's.  He chose to be a high school teacher and administrator after a while.  Mostly because of the "publish or perish" pressure, leftist politics, and ridiculous conflicts of interest in the research work being done there.    

 

I wish we could completely separate higher education and government.  Hillsdale College rejects government funding, and I think more should follow that model.  You could get all kinds of diversity in education that way, not just Christian/conservative institutions.  I just wish people weren't so willing to make a deal with the devil.  I feel like we're living in 1920's Germany or something, where there's no good choice available.  The answer to Lenin is NOT to elect Mussolini, but that's what's happening.  🙄