FtM or bigender/genderfluid? Need to figure out who I am

[Paul Palmer]

Hello,

I feel like am a transgender gay man in woman body, but I am very unsure I will ever come to the decision of taking therapy and complete transition - my body is quite androgynous and I am comfortable with it. I am new to LGBT community partially because of that, I never had an urge to be phisically a man and for a long time I was staying undercover for myself, looking completely heterosexual (a weird girl attracted to men). Things turned out to be more complicated. As a teenager I was very afraid of puberty and girl-type changes that I was expected, but it didn't hit me as hard as I thought, so now in my 26 I have a bit masculine female body and there are only two major reasons why I experience dysphoria - my hips that are wider than I'd like them to be and my jawbone. See pic to have an image of what I look like. I'd be pretty happy with my appearance if my face and legs were the most skinny parts of my body.

In that same period of time (12-14 y.o.) I developed a man subpersonality and called myself Paul. At the time I was ashamed of talking about myself with feminine pronouns and words, but I was only talking on behalf of my man self in internet with friends, and I had a few blogs about imaginary Paul's life. I wasn't interested in romantic relationship before I turned 21, so I didn't know that my subpersonality was gay, but I had sexual fantasies of being a top (active) partner in a gay couple or a man in heterosexual couple, the opposite role scared me.

I was in relationship only once and it was such a traumatic experience that some therapists gave up on me because they wasn't able to stand my mental state. As I understand now, my boyfriend was far from perfect but not that much, it was just bottom/girl role that traumatized me. I am talking mostly about sexual relationship, but I also had a feeling that in woman role I cannot be myself. I.e., I was going to gym at the time, which, I guess, boosted my testosteron levels and I liked the changes, I was looking more masculine instead of becoming a bulky girl. And at the same time I looked at the mirror and thought "it's not what my boyfriend would like me to be".

My next crush turned out to be gay. I analized all of my sympathies that I had in my life and realized that I actually have a gaydar, so I am only attracted to gay guys without even knowing it (some of them discovered themselves later). After years of trying to appear as a woman and get used to this social/sexual role I imagined myself as a gay man again and - gosh, I got so aroused, I've never had anything like this before. I was subconsciously avoided search for a partner because in case someone likes me back I would have to brave sex with this person, that felt like a firewall. But if I imagine myself in top role, there're no walls at all. 

And there's a problem, because I know how to spot submissive gays by their eyes, but why they would need me, an androgynous woman, but still a woman?

Transition is a solution for a problem, but is a big issue itself, and I don't feel an urge to have a male body. Relationships are the only problem that can be solved with transition, all of the other aspects of my life are fine and I can play myself as an odd freak, woman in man's clothes, that's absolutely fine. Since I released my inner man back again, I feel like I don't belong to men or women anymore, I don't compare myself to anyone, my self-esteem and self-confidence raised. I changed my wardrobe a bit, no more tries to wear something girly and uncomfortable. But I use woman pronouns without a problem and in daily life I don't care much about how others see me. 

So I am not sure who I am, a bi-gender? Or am I a transman who developed a woman social role because I was unaware of my true self for a very long time? My story looks like gernder-fluid, because for a certain period of time I gave up on my man role completely (or at least I thought so), but it wasn't completely my free will, it was a nesessity to be in relationship with heterosexual guy.

I need to know exactly before taking any steps like therapy or transition, maybe I don't need any steps at all.

Relationships and family is not on my to-do list for self-realization, but it is an important thing, I really want a partner and the situation makes me sad, though I am happy that I finally know what is going on with me.

[Vidanjali]

Hi @Paul Palmer . I relate so much to what you shared. I am 47 years old at the moment. When I was in my 20s, I had practically zero insight into my gender and sexuality. I also seemed like a "weird girl attracted to men" as you put it. Back then, I was wearing almost exclusively men's attire and keeping my hair short. And apparently straight guys aren't really into that. I would wind up in quasi-romantic relationships with women in a gentlemanly role. That confused me. I had a gay boy bff and we'd sleep and snuggle together and "pretend" to have sex (with clothes on) in a humorous way. With straight guys, I was perpetually in the friend-zone, and the one straight boyfriend I had in my 20s was a psycho who I wound up having to get a restraining order against. At 23, I determined the "solution" for me would be to go all out femme thinking that practice would make perfect, and that I'd finally make sense in the world. I kept that up for about 20 years! But, it ALWAYS felt like a performance. I married a...hmm...I'd say heteroflexible cisman in 2015 while still in femme mode. But, we'd known each other many years ago - when we first met in the mid-90s, I had a shaved head and wore a combination of men's attire and some occasional flashy women's pieces. I began a process of coming out about 4 years ago. It was very rough at times on our marriage. But, my husband has become very accepting, and now calls me "dude" and "bro" affectionately. I am now allowing myself to express more genuinely as who I am and its a miracle - I never thought I'd feel as free. I have said out loud on several occasions that I feel like a gay man in a woman's body. My husband is aware of this. I have come to identify as asexual. I sometimes wonder, though, if I'd ID as ace if I had a man's body. I feel most at home with my gay bfs,and I wish they'd see me as one of them. One of my gay bfs and I have confessed that we have romantic feelings for each other, and we imagine we were lovers in a past life and that I was a top. Ironically, he does not seem to accept my trans identity even though we've had several intense conversations about it. For example, he saw me standing with some women yesterday, and addressed us all as "ladies". I find it truly distasteful to be called lady, ma'am, miss, etc. So, past lives or not, I wonder if he has those feelings for me because he's attracted to the gay man aspect of me in this present life. I ID as nonbinary because transitioning to male doesn't resonate with me, despite my male feelings. I'm trying to accept what I got to work with. My body is rather feminine - like Scarlett Johansson proportions. I try to keep as slim and fit as I can manage not just because it's important to me to feel strong and healthy, but also to minimize curvature. My husband and I do not have a sexual relationship. I tried for several years and even saw doctors and therapists about it. But, I cannot make it work. He and I are very physically affectionate, but I cannot go there sexually at all. I thank God he is so accepting of and committed to me because it's not an easy thing. Anyways, I just wanted to let you know that someone here can relate! 

[Paul Palmer]

8 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

I married a...hmm...I'd say heteroflexible cisman in 2015 while still in femme mode. 

So, how did you make it work? Is your husband asexual as well? I was thinking about guys who are into fem-dominance, but to me dominatrix is one hell of a woman, I see this role as even more feminine than 'standard' hetero woman, not my thing at all. And I think this extreme feminine appearance is the key to attract such guys, who want to obey a woman, so I have a little chance to get their attention. I am looking for someone who's gonna be a bro and treat me the same way. Playing a top man role in everything sexual would be fun, but not nesessary, as I am quite asexual in my physical presence. I had the same question - would it be the same if I were a man, and I know the answer, I would be flirty day and night, having one-night stands and sex-only relationships, so maybe it's a good thing that my body cage saved a dozen of people from me being myself 😀 I know that because I am constantly compensating it the way I can - the intimacy of a good conversation is underrated, and I try to win the trust of everybody around so they can talk to me about personal things, sometimes VERY personal. I am the shoulder everybody can cry on, and I enjoy it. 

Our country is not LGBT friendly at all, and I know a few examples of gays who had to marry a woman to keep their reputation clean. Maybe some of them are not completely homosexual and are somewhere in the spectrum from hetero to homo, and it's not that much of a sacrifice for staying safe, and a slightly masculine woman could be an option in this case, but how do I know that? It hurts me that people choose to supress their real desires, and even if they feel like it's ok, this feeling might be affected by toxic environment and society pressure, and I don't want to be a part of that. This would put a huge moral burden on me.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer being open rather than coming out in relationship. 

 

How do you feel in your 47, did you experience dysphoria and did it evolved in time? I an questioning myself if I will get closer to the desicion about transition later in life, if my appearance will be changing 'wrong' direction. I imagine myself as a 50-60 y.o. man and it seems much more appealing than a woman of the same age.

[Vidanjali]

25 minutes ago, Paul Palmer said:

So, how did you make it work? Is your husband asexual as well?

 

...so maybe it's a good thing that my body cage saved a dozen of people from me being myself 😀... 

 

How do you feel in your 47, did you experience dysphoria and did it evolved in time?

 

My husband is sexual. He considers himself straight because he's only been interested in relationships with women. But, he's had sex with men in the past. My opinion is that a straight man would not do that. But, my husband does not consider himself bi. That's why I refer to him as "flexible". (And I also wonder if that flexibility lends to his greater acceptance of me.) It's nearly impossible to compromise when I don't want any sex. He does not wish to force anything. So, no sex. We are very affectionate, and he really really likes my feet, which I allow him to dwell on sometimes. I believe the thing that makes it work for us is primarily that we both assert that our bond is spiritual. That is, our commitment is based on our mutual desire to evolve spiritually, and to help each other on this path. Therefore, my husband is able to be more accepting of our sexual incompatibility because he believes that karmically, he's in a place where he needs to be to learn and grow. It's obviously not so cut and dried. At worst, he's expressed resentment, and I've felt like I'm drowning in guilt and shame. But we work on ourselves and our relationship, and things at present are good - our relationship is strong, loving, and committed. It definitely has been extremely challenging. 

 

I hear you on the comment about maybe it's better to not have the male body. I likewise think sometimes that if I WERE a gay man physically, that I'd be pretty, um, wild... 

 

At 47, I am still processing the past, realizing bits of memories and past experiences that I previously had no vocabulary to describe. I think past dysphoria was covered under many many layers of shame, guilt, and self-hatred - I just always felt like an alien-freak-monster. For instance, in the past, I'd cut my hair short, and maybe have one moment of euphoria before crashing down into dark despair and fear over how I'd be perceived socially because I didn't know who I was or what I wanted - I just thought I was hopelessly broken, and that by cutting my hair I was punishing or sabotaging myself. At present, for the first time in my life, I feel like I'm owning my look. I don't try to look like I'm "supposed to", and care so much less what others may think. The support I get from my husband goes a long way. Ironically, I don't know whether I'd have realized so much about myself absent our relationship. He tells me I look cool and cute. He takes me shopping for men's shoes and clothes. I think he's come around to letting go of whatever he "expected" his married life to be, and finds joy in what it is. Again, spiritually, I focus on not identifying with the body which is temporary and perishable. I see the body as a vehicle for the spirit, and not the be all and end all of me. But, I'm certainly not perfect, and the "only human" aspect of me wants to express joyfully and genuinely. I do occasionally experience harsh top dysphoria. For this reason, I try to stay slim and to dress strategically. Strangely, I think gender diverse people are given the unique opportunity to be thrust into deep contemplation of "who am I?" much more so than the general population. This is for better or worse, obviously. However, I think many folks struggling with their identity, albeit extremely challenging and painful at times, wind up ultimately gaining a richer experience of life. 

 

[Paul Palmer]

51 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

I believe the thing that makes it work for us is primarily that we both assert that our bond is spiritual.

Wow, that sounds incredible, after all this is the most desired relationship goal for everyone, I guess. You're lucky. The only reason I care so much about sexual side is my own.. safety, I would say, and partner's content with life. I was talking about the whole situation with my friend, he said: "you just did not discovered youself in sex yet". He is a boring straight and never thought much about people with different configurations, and I wouldn't want someone like him to lean to me hoping he'll be the one able to 'discover' me. 

1 hour ago, Vidanjali said:

Strangely, I think gender diverse people are given the unique opportunity to be thrust into deep contemplation of "who am I?" much more so than the general population. This is for better or worse, obviously. However, I think many folks struggling with their identity, albeit extremely challenging and painful at times, wind up ultimately gaining a richer experience of life. 

Absolutely. I would say, I experience more euphoria rather than dysphoria right now, because I finally figured out what's 'wrong' with me and see clearly why all of the internal conflicts occured. I finally allowed myself to not deliver any babies and use a 'third-party solution' in case I ever come to baby planning. Several months ago I was ready to step in into the standard path of a woman and go through all of the traumatizing things just because I am in a deep love, even though I realized that even conception will be a trouble for me. Thanks to my gaydar, I am free for life now, whatever this life will be.

[Mmindy]

Good afternoon Paul, 

 

Welcome to TransPulseForums, thank you for sharing your story. I hope you find this site as helpful as I do. 
 

Best wishes, stay positive, and motivated

 

Mindy🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[Ivy]

Welcome Paul

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I get the sense that perhaps you're a bit like me...struggling with getting the right label.  I think language doesn't always serve us well. 

 

I labeled myself as gender-fluid, then found out I'm actually intersex.  Female at birth, somewhat socially transitioning toward male.  I love my female partners, but I've found my relationship with my husband to be extremely fulfilling.  Like I'm mostly a submissive/feminine gay boy in a girl's body. 

 

Like you, I'm still using feminine pronouns, and dressing androgynously.  It seems to work, so if what you're doing now is working for you, don't pressure yourself.  I guess life just flows in the proper direction and we follow along. 

[Paul Palmer]

6 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Like I'm mostly a submissive/feminine gay boy in a girl's body. 

Yeah, I know a girl who has the same issues with her gender identity, and it seem to work in relationships, but I am on the opposite side (mentally), and this does not correspond to physical body at all, that's the problem.

9 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Like you, I'm still using feminine pronouns, and dressing androgynously.  It seems to work, so if what you're doing now is working for you, don't pressure yourself.  I guess life just flows in the proper direction and we follow along. 

It is working fine for me, that's why I'd like to avoid transition. Maybe if I could just wake up in man's body one day, it would took me about a week to adapt and forget my previous life, but in reality the amount of procedures is too huge for such a little improvement. And there are no guarantees that I will be satisfied with the results (I never knew my father and have no reference to imagine myself as a man).

[awkward-yet-sweet]

2 hours ago, Paul Palmer said:

Maybe if I could just wake up in man's body one day, it would took me about a week to adapt and forget my previous life, but in reality the amount of procedures is too huge for such a little improvement. And there are no guarantees that I will be satisfied with the results (I never knew my father and have no reference to imagine myself as a man).

 

I've had that wish so many times....just to wake up one day in a body that fits me and feels natural.  To wake up and not feel like I'm pretending. 

 

Due to my unique intersex anatomy, the doctor I went to recently told me that pursuing a medical/surgical transition isn't something she could recommend.  I've started using testosterone cream specifically to adjust my intimate anatomy, and I'm kinda pleased with how that's going.  A little bit at a time, I guess.

 

I'm not sure what my life would have been like not having a father.  My father was an intense, dominating presence in my life until I broke free at age 26.  Partly because of that image, I don't really want to imagine myself as dominant and masculine.  I don't want the role, but I think I'd feel better in the body.  Is that perhaps how it is for you?

[Paul Palmer]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I don't want the role, but I think I'd feel better in the body.  Is that perhaps how it is for you?

Just the opposite, I'd rather have the role if people around had enough imagination, and, surprisingly, if I had enough imagination. In my teens it was much easier to feel like a man just by crossdressing, now I am having trouble to see myself in a mirror, I see a pretender, sonewhat successful, but far even from androgyne I'd like to see.

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

2 hours ago, Paul Palmer said:

Just the opposite, I'd rather have the role if people around had enough imagination, and, surprisingly, if I had enough imagination. In my teens it was much easier to feel like a man just by crossdressing, now I am having trouble to see myself in a mirror, I see a pretender, sonewhat successful, but far even from androgyne I'd like to see.

I suppose I could imagine myself in the role a bit better if I was physically different... I'm short and slender and light, and unfortunately quite breakable.  My GF, who is Russian-American, calls me "Lisichka," thus the profile picture of a tiny fox.  My ability to protect myself is minimal, and I'd never make it in life alone.  My ability to fit the masculine mold is very limited.

 

You mention that things in Russia are pretty unfriendly towards LGBTQ+ people.  Is it the law, the attitudes, or both? 

 

[Paul Palmer]

5 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

You mention that things in Russia are pretty unfriendly towards LGBTQ+ people.  Is it the law, the attitudes, or both? 

The laws are getting more and more harsh these days. Not only gay marriages are not allowed, but also propaganda of LGBTQ+ is prohibited, whatever is concidered 'propaganda', asking questions? questioning your gender? Could be anything. And many people are brainwashed to hate everything that goes against 'traditional family', which is a man and a woman, or not educated enough and treat us like aliens. I fall under the second category myself, because in school the word 'transgender' meaned a man in woman dress to me, I didn't understand that when I am doing the opposite, it's actually the same thing. Many people are ignorant and cautious, the older the worse. My mom is not into believing TV and any government agenda, but when I told her I have a gay friend, she said 'eww, the ones who spread AIDS'. I don't think she will ever be ready to hear that I am trans, because gays and lesbians are easy to understand concepts, but all the rest are freaks or psychos to many people. I am currently trying to help an older friend to come out, because he has little to no safe people who won't judge him for anything - he knows that I know, but he's scared and I'm trying to imply that I am not a threat and not going to blackmail him or do anything bad. And it's a friendship, you can imagine the attitude of random strangers. Of course, there are a lot of communities and safe spaces, it's not a big problem to find a circle of open-minded people, but those are bubbles in unfriendly environment and you never know who is safe enough to talk to. Many elders stay undercover and are quite homophobic to themselves. I migrated to international forums because even psyhcologists who work with LGBTQ+ people can be quite toxic.

[Vidanjali]

19 hours ago, Paul Palmer said:

Wow, that sounds incredible, after all this is the most desired relationship goal for everyone, I guess. You're lucky. The only reason I care so much about sexual side is my own.. safety, I would say, and partner's content with life. I was talking about the whole situation with my friend, he said: "you just did not discovered youself in sex yet". He is a boring straight and never thought much about people with different configurations, and I wouldn't want someone like him to lean to me hoping he'll be the one able to 'discover' me. 

Absolutely. I would say, I experience more euphoria rather than dysphoria right now, because I finally figured out what's 'wrong' with me and see clearly why all of the internal conflicts occured. I finally allowed myself to not deliver any babies and use a 'third-party solution' in case I ever come to baby planning. Several months ago I was ready to step in into the standard path of a woman and go through all of the traumatizing things just because I am in a deep love, even though I realized that even conception will be a trouble for me. Thanks to my gaydar, I am free for life now, whatever this life will be.

 

@Paul Palmer I appreciate your perspective. I have become exponentially more comfortable telling people I'm trans (note, it's much easier to tell a person I'm meeting for the first time than anyone I've known for a long time), but I don't often mention I'm ace (asexual) because I worry I'll be judged in the context of my relationship. That is, if I'm judged for being ace, then my husband will necessarily be judged too. I'm never sure the reaction I'll get when I express how the spiritual connection is the most important thing to us. So, I'm gratified by your response.

 

It's interesting, the phrase you use including "safety" and "contentment". I believe those are common desires for many who are consciousness and compassionate, although it means so many different things to different people. For me, the safety aspect entailed considering that at worst, I was experiencing dissociative episodes during sex and sometimes panic attacks. But, out of concern for my husband's contentment, I tried for years to "fix" myself with medical and mental health doctors. I finally realized that if my safety was not part of his contentment, then our relationship was seriously flawed. It was part of an epiphany I had around 2018 - I realized I had to give up all straining to be any certain way because I felt it was killing me, all the anxiety, shame and guilt. 

 

Ugh, what you share sounds so typical of a guy who fancies himself so virile that he can "fix" or "awaken" any "woman". That's a friend with limited capacity for empathy or imagination, as they're not really listening or making an effort to understand you, but rather inserting their own agenda and ulterior motives. 

 

I'm so glad you reached out on this forum. I hope you are staying safe and enjoying being you as much as you can each day. 

 

By the way, I imagine in Russia you have very limited access to certain media, especially queer content. But, for what it's worth, I'll tell you there is a show on Netflix that I'd recommend to you, as well a book that has actually caused an uproar in the US with certain parties going to court to have it deemed obscene and banning it. The show is called "Feel Good" and stars Mae Martin who is a nonbinary (afab) comedian. The show was created by Martin, and is somewhat biographical. In part, it deals with their sexuality as an afab person who seems to prefer a male sexual role. The book is "Genderqueer" by Maia Kobabe. It's a graphic novel. Kobabe is also afab, and addresses eir desire to experience sex with male anatomy. Interestingly, Kobabe is ace, but nonetheless has these desires - just not to realize them with a partner. Even though you probably cannot access such material, I thought you'd find it comforting to know that others are creating such content to share their experiences. 

[Paul Palmer]

13 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

I have become exponentially more comfortable telling people I'm trans (note, it's much easier to tell a person I'm meeting for the first time than anyone I've known for a long time)

I feel you so much on this, I've met some new people right in the moment of my 'awakening' and told them immediately to see what they think about it, and their reaction was very positive. I know some trans people hate being treated like freaks, but I don't mind if it means that people are more curious and more supportive, as they portray me as 'special' along with being interested in me as a person. One of my old friends didn't respond me for a month, and I don't know if she needs time or it's a silent ban. Anyway, if people don't accept me for who I am, those are not my people, I share this information to reveal who my true friends are, and they open to me back, I didn't know about many of them either. Filtering is harsh, but that's what I do all the time, and in current situation it feels like I have the best friends possible on this planet.

28 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

I finally realized that if my safety was not part of his contentment, then our relationship was seriously flawed.

Yes, that is what I mean, and I am going to be as open and honest to everybody around as I can. Sometimes people are interested in me, and I'd prefer to inform them first, that they're approaching a werewolf, and therу are issues to consider.

35 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

But, for what it's worth, I'll tell you there is a show on Netflix that I'd recommend to you, as well a book that has actually caused an uproar in the US with certain parties going to court to have it deemed obscene and banning it.

Thank you, I'll try to find it somewhere online. You're right, queer content is limited and there's a language barrier for many people, we can have access to any information, but not everybody knows languages good enough to watch a movie or read a book, that will not be translated (see my previous message - it's a 'propaganda'). So stupid, like someone can choose being a queer just by having information about it.

[Vidanjali]

 @Paul Palmer by the way, great photo you posted. You look like a rock star. 😎

[Paul Palmer]

22 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

by the way, great photo you posted. You look like a rock star. 😎

Thank you, I am trying to rock what I have. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

8 hours ago, Paul Palmer said:

You're right, queer content is limited and there's a language barrier for many people, we can have access to any information, but not everybody knows languages good enough to watch a movie or read a book, that will not be translated (see my previous message - it's a 'propaganda'). So stupid, like someone can choose being a queer just by having information about it.

Seems like "propaganda" can be anything these days, as you point out. We're facing some censorship in the USA too (God forbid you disagree with both major political parties...).    This VPN is supposed to work in places like Iran and China, and is free:   https://ultrasurf.us/    It can be a bit slow at times, but free stuff isn't always the best.  There are others that require a subscription, but I don't know as much about them.

 

We use VPN's here with mixed success, simply to avoid being tracked.  But privacy can be a difficult thing at times.  My husband has friends in China who have been pretty much taken off the internet because of the government, and are unable to emigrate.  

 

I like your picture too.  Rock star look indeed.  In the Southern US where I live, there aren't many people of Eastern European background.  But a bit farther north where my husband and GF grew up, there are a lot of Russians, Poles, Croatians, and Serbians.  If you ever want to come to the USA for vacation or to stay, you'll be able to find a bit of home.  🙂