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New bill in South Carolina would amend the constitution to define "gender" as "biological sex…


Ivy

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4 hours ago, Heather Nicole said:

 

So...your husband wants to enslave black people?

 

You are aware, that whas the whole point of the confederacy, right?

While slavery was at the heart of the Civil War, the issues of the time were far more complex and included both states' rights and economics/industrial development. To learn about the causes, I would suggest reading James Macpherson's book Battle Cry of Freedom, which is the best history of the Civil War, including the causes leading up to it and the immediate aftermath. It won a pulitzer is quite an eye opener. another book that delves into the causes of the Civil War that I can recommend is War to the Knife (I don't recall the author) that deals with the events in the 1850's in Kansas that many argue was where and when the Civil War began.

 

And, in full disclosure, I grew up in Johnson County Kansas--on the border with Missouri--and had a great-great-great (?) uncle from Concordia MO who was home on leave from the Union Army and killed by Quantrill's raiders. Also, my great-great grandfather ran a station on the underground railroad and was later wounded at Gettysburg fighting for the North.  My family also has relatives that fought for the Confederacy, though we don't talk about them much.The point being this is personal as it is for many people in this country. Had I been alive then, I would have fought for the Union; not because it's perfect but because not only is slavery wrong, but because the ideals of what it stands for stand above all other forms of government.

 

The Sons of Confederate Veterans are a service organization, as @awkward-yet-sweetpoints out; similar in function to the Daughters of the American Revolution. Ripping into folks' heritage and faith as justification for one's own positions merely adds fuel to the fire. As do personal attacks and insults on politicians and sitting SCOTUS members we don't agree with. 

 

I will refrain from delving into creation stories and so on. The topic is simply too broad to go into here, and this isn't the right thread anyway. All I will say is that to condemn an entire faith because of the beliefs of one or two groups is rather narrow minded and is identical, intellectually, to the very sort of bigotry said group is accused of. This applies to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, et al.  I seem to recall, and I may be wrong as I've slept since then, a course in rhetoric that I took in seminary where one of the main points was that when one's argument descends into name calling and vitriol it has no merit.

 

My apologies if this offends anyone. That said, it seems as if this thread has veered from its original purpose and is descending into invective. Again, my apologies.

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Well, I did not intend for any of my comments to be inflammatory to any group. I just find the continued assault on our very being, bothersome to the core of my soul. I am sick and tired of this continual harangue about how there has to be only male and female and how we are somehow the spawn of Satan. I am sorry if I offended anybody. That was never my intent. I am sorry if anybody took it that way. Whether you like any particular political party, the reality is that one is openly questioning our existence. They are systematically trying to herd us into choices we may revile. 

 

What happens if things go to the extreme and for whatever reason, we are told we have to revert to our former selves? Unlikely? Perhaps, but as we have seen, things can cascade. I am thankful for those that support us, but I am a realist in that there are those out there, who may despise us enough to ratchet up the hate. 

 

I have no doubt that there will continue to be many other attempts at this type of legislation over the next few years. 

 

I am not going to say another word about this topic. Again, I apologize if I offended anybody's political views or beliefs.

 

Sincerely

Katie

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Yikes.  From the trans-wars to the civil war.

I didn't mean to offend anyone with the Steve Taylor song.  I just remembered it was a Bob Jones thing at the time.  Unless I'm mistaken, they did change that policy eventually.

 

As for religious things, people can believe what they want.  It's pretty much beliefs anyway.  There's not a lot of proof for any of it.  My own beliefs have evolved over the years.  There are things I used to believe strongly that I now think are BS.  But to be honest, I can't really prove the stuff I believe now either, so….    

I just have to go on my own experience.

 

People yelling about XX or XY chromosomes think they're being scientific, but they've closed their minds to all the complexities that are still being uncovered daily.  I think closing your mind is a kind of death.

 

When I started this thread, I was mostly concerned with another anti-trans bill, and it's possible affects on our lives.  I live about a dozen miles from SC so I do pay attention to what happens there.  As of now in NC, we still have a democrat governor.  The republicans lack 1 vote of a super majority in the state house.  I'm not so stupid as to think that all the democrats support us.  But at least there is still lip service.

 

Well, it's beginning to look like I might have survived another year.  At least I have managed to have my name officialized…  And my ID gendered correctly.  And that's something to be grateful for heading into the winter solstice.

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13 minutes ago, Ivy said:

As for religious things, people can believe what they want.  It's pretty much beliefs anyway.  There's not a lot of proof for any of it.  My own beliefs have evolved over the years.  There are things I used to believe strongly that I now think are BS.  But to be honest, I can't really prove the stuff I believe now either, so….    

I just have to go on my own experience.

 

I've noticed that people of faith use the word "belief" quite differently than others.  For me, what I believe is the core of my world...it isn't something optional or added on to my life.  It is the entirety of existence, a framework for everything.  Belief doesn't rule out science - it provides a base for it, and people of faith literally started much of the modern scientific method. 

 

I noticed at least one case where Christian folks accidentally offended a trans person by stating they "believe" themselves to be a gender other than how they were born.  It was misinterpreted as a slight, when it was in fact an acknowledgement that the person's gender identity was part of the core of who they are. 

 

Back to the main issue of the thread - I don't understand why a gender issue has to be dealt with in a state's constitution.  That's not really what constitutions are for.  Constitutions are to explain the purpose of government, describe how that government is to function, and then to limit the powers of that government.  Constitutions may include a description and protection for specific personal rights.  Putting gender issues or abortion into a constitution seems to be outside the scope of that document. 

 

I see multiple ways that this weird proposed piece of legislation can fail even if it passes.  And the governor will veto.  Does the legislation have enough support of overcome a veto?  I would hope not.  If it overcomes a veto, there's multiple courts that can take care of it.  Thankfully, checks and balances in our system keep the vast majority of bills from getting through.  A government functions best when it functions least.

 

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I'd love to see something bigger come out of the gender identity issue.  I'd love to see major pushback against the government getting to define and label us.  We shouldn't have to be classified by gender, race, skin color, eye color, and pinned down to an address.  I'd love to see the government get out of marital issues entirely - abolish it as an institution and leave it as an issue of faith or private contract.  I'd love to prevent the government from defining the nature of a family and limited who can be considered my family. 

 

In short, government has too much power, and that power continues to grow.  Trans rights are just one facet of the struggle for human liberty.

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17 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

For me, what I believe is the core of my world...it isn't something optional or added on to my life.  It is the entirety of existence, a framework for everything. 

I think this is true.  But I don't think that our core beliefs can't evolve as we grow in knowledge and understanding.  For myself, I had a core "belief" that I used as a lens to interpret my experiences and everything else.  There were times when it took a bit of mental gymnastics to pull it off - which bothered me.

 

When I was finally forced to drop that, it opened me to be able to interpret my realities in a new way that made a whole lot more sense.

 

Sure, I'm still looking at things through a lens.  But at least it's my own lens, and that lens can be modified as I grow and learn even more.

 

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as "truth" or reality, it's just that we are seeing more of it, and hopefully that, more accurately.

 

I don't know.  Perhaps there is a time when our reality has to crumble and be rebuilt on a different foundation.  And perhaps it's not a one-time thing.

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