What A Pain

[Colleen Henderson]

It's hard for me to believe that Walt Heyer, who - at 82 - is a year older than I am, is still getting publicity as some sort of expert on transgender issues.

 

Today, there's an article that quotes him as saying that a person struggling with gender dysphoria almost always has an underlying issue. "People who identify this way are struggling with either bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, body dysmorphia, depression, or some underlying comorbid issue," says the doofus who de-transitioned back in the 80s and hasn't shut up about it since. "The truth is transgenders don't exist. There is no such thing as a transgender." The ultra-conservative news outlets swoon over this guy.

 

He goes on to intone that, "We need to stop using the word gender dysphoria, stop using the word transgender, and stop saying transitioning, because I haven't found one person that actually has gender dysphoria."

 

Gee, Walt... Where ya been?  I just looked in the mirror, and there one was!

[Mmindy]

41 minutes ago, Colleen Henderson said:

Gee, Walt... Where ya been?  I just looked in the mirror, and there one was!

I agree Colleen, 

the religious right is doing everything they can to bury us under negative press. Taking every opportunity to book detransitioning people, or miss quoting others. Right now they’re really editing and twisting Chief Beck’s words to suit their narrative. While Chief Beck is detransitioning they’re not leaving the LGBTQA community. Chief Beck has told me directly that they will always be nonbinary and gender fluid. I love and support Chief Beck we just need to be aware that they are being misquoted. 
 

Hugs,

 

Mindy🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[Trans22]

I've posted the following quote on several social media platforms (ones that I've come out on), hoping to educate others.
"When you debate a person about something that affects them more than it affects you, remember that it will take a much greater toll on them than you. For you it may feel like an academic exercise. For them, it feels like revealing their pain only to have you dismiss their experience and sometimes their humanity. The fact that you might remain calm under these circumstances is a consequence of your privilege, not increased objectivity on your part. Stay humble."

[Vidanjali]

2 hours ago, Colleen Henderson said:

...a person struggling with gender dysphoria almost always has an underlying issue...says the doofus who de-transitioned back in the 80s and hasn't shut up about it since.

 

Well then, sounds like Walt's not dealing with his own underlying issues. Walt, heal thyself instead of lashing out at others. 

 

41 minutes ago, Trans22 said:

"When you debate a person about something that affects them more than it affects you, remember that it will take a much greater toll on them than you. For you it may feel like an academic exercise. For them, it feels like revealing their pain only to have you dismiss their experience and sometimes their humanity. The fact that you might remain calm under these circumstances is a consequence of your privilege, not increased objectivity on your part. Stay humble."

 

Yesss

[Sally Stone]

Okay, I'm not defending Mr. Heyer for his opinionated views of those of us who are trans, but clearly, his transition had a profoundly negative impact on his life, so consequently, I can understand his bitterness (I understand but don't agree).  But like so many people tend to do, Mr. Heyer is trying to blame his woes on others.  He blames the surgeons that performed his SRS, which I find ludicrous.  He ultimately made the decision to proceed; nobody held a gun to his head and forced him to commit.  Like so many others in our current society, Mr. Heyer is looking for someone else to blame for the decisions he made.  He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

 

Clearly, he didn't realize how much of an impact his decision to transition was going to have on his life.  I guess he imagined that after transitioning, his wife and the rest of his family would be 100% supportive and that the life he knew previously would continue just as it always had.  Unfortunately, things didn't go as he imagined they would and after a while, he realized the life he knew previously, had been completely upended.  Had his wife and kids supported him and had life as a woman been as easy and comfortable as life as a man had been, he probably wouldn't have detransitioned or sought to disparage others that wish to. 

 

Transition is hard.  Those of us who haven't transitioned fulltime know this and those that have fully transitioned aren't naïve enough to think life is going to be rosy afterwards.  Obviously, I wish it wasn't true.  I wish each of us could live life in the gender we choose, without fear of the inevitable life changes that might result, but that unfortunately, this is not reality in our binary oriented world.  But to try and hold others accountable because your transition didn't go as planned, like Mr. Heyer has done, is childish and petty.  His bitterness and his opinions are misdirected.  He would have us believe all trans people are flawed simply because his decision resulted in an outcome he, personally, couldn't live with. 

 

Those of us who are trans already see his disparaging motivations for what they are; I only wish others could see through Mr. Heyer's smoke screen.

[Davie]

Well said, @Sally StoneThanks.

[Trans22]

The anti-trans movement is all about emotions - no rational thought visible, no citations, conflicts within their emotional arguments, etc.  I have often seen logic (rational thought) disappear from my own conversations when I get emotional.
The "bathroom debate" offers up a really good example of conflict within the argument.  Proposing that rans-men must use Women's spaces is going to make it far easier for a cis-males to enter their spaces.  The anti-trans people simply aren't thinking rationally or completely.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Never heard of Walt until today.  But it sounds like he probably has an underlying issue if he's done the same thing for decades. I don't begrudge him the right to his perspective, but it doesn't match the experiences of lots of others.

 

I imagine that there are some folks who transition, realizing later that it didn't match their expectations or that they mis-identified the source of their discomfort.  But like buying a car, there are far more satisfied customers than those with buyer's remorse.   

[Colleen Henderson]

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Never heard of Walt until today.  But it sounds like he probably has an underlying issue if he's done the same thing for decades.

 

I did a search and turned up one of his videos. He sits with a bookmarked Bible and twists several carefully selected verses to prove his point that claiming to be transgender is to turn away from God.

 

That's what I loathe about the guy. It's not enough for him to express genuine regret for his own choices and add that information to the overall discussion. Instead, he decided to become proactive and make a name for himself constantly attacking the entire concept of gender dysphoria, using his simplistic religious beliefs as a weapon to cause untold pain for others over the years.

 

The last straw was seeing him described in the article as a "transgender pioneer".  Pioneer? In the 1980s? Give me a break.

 

The younger me would have gone at him like a buzzsaw. Hey, Walt... Wanna see my debate trophy?

[Russ Fenrisson]

It's crazy how every argument against what is not "normal" in society always somehow involves the Bible. The Bible is a powerful work, but it should never be used to spew hatred or cause harm to another person. Didn't those who wrote it go in with a vision to respect their fellow human, regardless of their condition? Whatever happened to "love thy neighbor?" It's like people lift their morals briefly so they can unreasonably hate on others without repercussion.

 

I can't speak for every person, but it's reasonable to say while a person may suffer from one illness, it's possible they may be suffering from others that have yet to come to light. Phobias, depression, anxiety, how one feels about themselves and others... it's pretty common. And if one is a minority, whether racially or sexually, it's no surprise co-morbidity can exist, no matter a person's station.

 

I've never heard of Walt Heyer up until this point but they're not the only person I've heard of who has de-transitioned or has gone back to heteronormativity, only to put down people they once identified with. It's sad and sick to me. The wrong person might stumble upon their hateful rhetoric and fall into a dark pkace that might be hard to get out of. Some individuals with the gift of rhetoric clearly abuse it.

 

I really enjoy how clear and raw your message is @Trans22. I've felt this before in the past and even now. It's really hard to understand someone if they are not themselves dealing with the same issue. One can try and sympathize, but understanding can only go so far.

 

I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes from Anatole France when hateful people like Walt become part of the limelight:

 

"Teach men to laugh at the stupid and the angry lest we fall prey to the weakness of hating them."

 

I stumbled across it by accident when reading a dystopian novel and it is so insightful.

[Colleen Henderson]

1 hour ago, Russ Fenrisson said:

It's crazy how every argument against what is not "normal" in society always somehow involves the Bible.

I have a real problem with people who deride the transgender condition as not being "normal".

 

Red hair and favoring the left hand are not the norm, either. If you point that simple fact out, you're likely to elicit some response along the lines of "They don't affect other people". Come back with "Neither does being transgender and that's also an immutable characteristic" and you get a barrage of misinformation regarding grooming, agenda, perversion, threat to marriage, etc., etc., etc. Cut through that clutter and it's finally down to "Well, it's just wrong."

 

And then out comes the Bible again.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

9 hours ago, Colleen Henderson said:

I have a real problem with people who deride the transgender condition as not being "normal".

 

Red hair and favoring the left hand are not the norm, either. If you point that simple fact out, you're likely to elicit some response along the lines of "They don't affect other people". Come back with "Neither does being transgender and that's also an immutable characteristic" and you get a barrage of misinformation regarding grooming, agenda, perversion, threat to marriage, etc., etc., etc. Cut through that clutter and it's finally down to "Well, it's just wrong."

 

And then out comes the Bible again.

Personally, I don't see myself as normal... unlike how I would see red hair or left-handedness.  I see my intersex body and gender issues as something more like autism.  It isn't ideal, but it isn't something I had a choice in. 

 

Biblically this stuff is a gray area.  When the Scripture was written,  it was in a world of gender specific dress and a world prior to chemicals that alter our essential bodily functions without consent.  The situation has changed over 2000 years.  Fundamenalists don't seem to be able to maintain general principles without getting caught up in attempting to apply very specific details.  

[Russ Fenrisson]

@Colleen Henderson It's like a never-ending conga line. Instead of using religion to put people on the "right path," it should be people helping other people regardless of their position. I wish it were more like this, but clearly, society at large has a lot of growing room. There's this strange desire for normalcy when this idea of being normal is strict and rigid. It doesn't exactly work for everyone.

 

@awkward-yet-sweetLife was simpler back then, too, often relying on elders to guide them in an otherwise inhospitable environment. Since then, humanity has succeeded in survival. Definitely by very simple means: eat, sleep, work, survive. That's a normal life to me. But lately, this normalcy seems to have come to apply with how people live their lives and how they feel about those around them. Whatever happened to letting a person live their life however they want to without feeling one has the moral responsibility to mold them to what is "normal?"

[awkward-yet-sweet]

@Russ Fenrisson I'm not sure that the baseline of existence has really changed all that much.  To me at least, the world is still very inhospitable.  Sleep, eat, work, survive, defend yourself... being small and gentle and overly inquisitive still makes a person a target just as much as it did 2,000 years ago.  Our tech has changed which gives the illusion of progress, but human nature is the same as the day Cain killed his brother Abel.  Unfortunately, that's our human heritage.  That's normal.  Join the tribe, do exactly as told, slaughter those who step out of line.  That's normal.  Normal sucks.  🤮

 

Freedom is abnormal.  For all their flaws, the USA's Founding Fathers were very abnormal people, in a good way.  The created something that has (so far) been relatively unique in world history.  But now we have two sides who seek to control the state to coerce everybody else into their view....to the point of desiring to dictate how we dress, what we eat, what stoves we have in our homes, and all manner of other crazy things even the Kings of England and the Roman Caesars would have thought despicable.   Orwell's 1984 pales in comparison to the storm that is coming globally, and all Federal (and most state) politicians no matter what party are complicit.  If we ever get justice for what they've done so far (and continue to plan), the Nuremberg trials will seem tiny in comparison. 

[Russ Fenrisson]

It's amazing how the original Founding Fathers were able to beat colonialism, risk the odds, and create a government that was essentially untried before except in very small communities. I wonder if change like that can happen again.

 

It definitely is a cruel world out there. Since time began, people have fought and sought for justice and even if things seemed to have changed on the surface, it always feels like something is off. A person can enjoy something for so long before the rug is pulled from under them, revealing what had been there all along.

 

Definitely, the world at large is strange.

[Sally Stone]

I know I'm diverging from the original subject of this thread, but in my humble opinion, I think the primary reason the world has become more inhospitable is due mainly to the common view that "it is all about me."  In almost every context, people are only concerned about themselves and generally don't give a damn about others.  I honestly believe that if we could get people to actually think about how how their actions or views affect others, the world would be a lot more hospitable. 

 

I could site hundreds of examples, but suffice it to say, people only care about themselves and never consider how their actions or thoughts affects others.  They lack any measure of empathy, which is sad and problematic. 

[Russ Fenrisson]

I think that might be part of it. Everyone has their own points of views, morals, and goals, they sometimes leave others out of the equation. It seems to be a general lack of empathy, across all boards. That's good to note, Sally.

 

This seems to be especially prevalent in politics. Those in charge are so far removed from their constiuents and try to vote according to some moral compass, but who's compass is it? Surely the majority of people don't share the same ideas as the person they put in office.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

6 hours ago, Russ Fenrisson said:

Those in charge are so far removed from their constiuents and try to vote according to some moral compass, but who's compass is it? Surely the majority of people don't share the same ideas as the person they put in office.

 

This is almost certainly true.  Also, the majority of politicians are much wealthier than those they represent.  50% of Congress are millionaires compared to 1% of the general population.  Class differences definitely mean different ideas about what matters.