Transgender fashion issues

[Allison_Marie]

I have been lucky to work in the fashion industry for several years.  And while what we work on in generally targeted at genetic women, I have debated about the specific needs of transgender women.  And of course I understand that involves all types of different people, as far as age, status, body shape, etc, but those issues are mostly common to genetic women too, to be honest.

 

So, if I wanted to start a fashion line specifically for us, what issues would be the most important, do you think?

 

As much as I've thought of this, a few things came to mind:

• Try to enhance the hips, with beltlines or padding on the hips, to give a more pleasing overall shape
• Minimize plunging necklines, but have the neckline low enough to show just a bit of "push-up" if wanted
• Try to de-emphasize colors more associated with masculinity, like dark blues and blacks
• Find ways to shape, contour, give the shoulders a more female line
• Maybe longer sleeves that cover much of the hand, as transgender women often have a different shaped hand that genetic women do
• Just try to give the impression of a more feminine curvature from hips down to the legs, where the design pads or deceives the eye into what their mind naturally associates with femininity.

 

I know this may be a tough concept but the idea of a line of clothing that is fashionable, but also designed to be appealing to women like ourselves, is something I would really like to pursue and learn more about.

 

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas!

[April Marie]

This is such an interesting and important topic and I think you’ve hit the majority of fit issues. Finding clothing that gives the impression of a more feminine waistline is something I look for. Sleeve length is also a challenge for me - many things that fit me in the shoulders ends up with the sleeves coming up to my forearms.

 

I would say say that a line that offers a variety of mix and match items would be so helpful. At my stage of transition, I’m overwhelmed by having to assemble a complete wardrobe from everyday to more dressy. Many need business/work attire, as well. Having a source or line of clothing that provides a way to build outfits by mixing and matching seems to make sense to me. Perhaps the older women like me can relate to the old children’s line of Garanimals. TransFormers?

 

I find myself disappointed by the quality of much of what I see and sometimes have purchased, even from trans-focused businesses. Quality, well-constructed and affordable are critical concepts when you’re building a wardrobe on a budget, as I’d assume many are. 

 

Oh, and did I mention COLORS! 

 

And we we need a line of affordable, well-made fashionable shoes of all styles for larger feet in more than just full-sizes.

 

I can’t wait to see what other ideas people come up with.

[GlitchedSalvation]

 

 

 

On 3/3/2023 at 9:20 PM, April Marie said:

This is such an interesting and important topic and I think you’ve hit the majority of fit issues. Finding clothing that gives the impression of a more feminine waistline is something I look for. Sleeve length is also a challenge for me - many things that fit me in the shoulders ends up with the sleeves coming up to my forearms.

 

I would say say that a line that offers a variety of mix and match items would be so helpful. At my stage of transition, I’m overwhelmed by having to assemble a complete wardrobe from everyday to more dressy. Many need business/work attire, as well. Having a source or line of clothing that provides a way to build outfits by mixing and matching seems to make sense to me. Perhaps the older women like me can relate to the old children’s line of Garanimals. TransFormers?

 

I find myself disappointed by the quality of much of what I see and sometimes have purchased, even from trans-focused businesses. Quality, well-constructed and affordable are critical concepts when you’re building a wardrobe on a budget, as I’d assume many are. 

 

Oh, and did I mention COLORS! 

 

And we we need a line of affordable, well-made fashionable shoes of all styles for larger feet in more than just full-sizes.

 

I can’t wait to see what other ideas people come up with.

I agree, also have you tried making small modifications to your clothes? You can do things like take the sleeves in, or the waist. (speaking of the waist, if you want something to give the appearance of a feminine waistline, try something loose and flowy with a belt there.) Colors are easy if you make your own, but if you try to aim for white or very light gray you can dye it. Best thing is, materials are usually quite cheap if you just modify.

[GlitchedSalvation]

1 minute ago, GlitchedSalvation said:

 but if you try to

oops, I forgot to add modify here.

[Ashley0616]

What are some of the places that y'all order from? I love Shein and Torrid (nice but expensive) I have even seen some stuff on amazon. Finding clothes can be a challenge especially since I am six foot and weigh 216 pounds. Thanks in advance for your opinions. 

[April Marie]

I get a lot of my clothes from Amazon - I've generally been happy with the quality. I also admit to shopping Talbots. I wait for their sales to kick in and will try to find discounts or wait for the 70% sales. I love their popovers - just ordered two the other day. I also will go to Sam's Club with my wife and but clothing - jeans, pants, blouses, shorts - low prices and good quality. You just have to get what they have on the tables when its available.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

My friend (MtF) tends to get clothes on Amazon, then modify them at home.  Lots of Amazon stuff seems to run small, for whatever reason. 

 

I don't wear a lot of clothes.  Since I'm intersex (AFAB) and I present androgynous, I mostly stick with shorts and t-shirts from the thrift store.  Not baggy, not tight, just comfy. 

[Betty K]

I agree about covering the hands. I wear lace fingerless gloves for the purpose. I buy them on Etsy and get them shipped from Singapore, since they’re hard to find. I often get complimented on them, and I’ve often thought it might be lucrative to make and sell them, since production cost must be incredibly cheap. I suspect older cis women might like them too, since everyone’s hands get veiny later in life.

 

I also agree that longer sleeves are crucial. Well-fitted jackets are so hard to find. I’m 185cm tall but very slender, so to find a jacket with long enough arms arhat still hugs my figure is almost impossible.

 

I’d also like to see more clothes that accommodate my larger ribcage. As I said, I’m slender, so I could theoretically fit into a size 8 if only the zip would close over my ribcage. I do wear size 8 skirts sometimes, but on my top half I’m at least a size 10 and often a size 12. I guess the shoulders play into this as well.

 

I used to buy most of my clothes online (shyness) but so many of them didn’t fit that I know but almost everything in brick-and-mortar stores, either new or secondhand.

[GlitchedSalvation]

14 hours ago, Betty K said:

I’ve often thought it might be lucrative to make and sell them, since production cost must be incredibly cheap.

As long as you have a good fabric shop and a sewing machine/needle, it really is cheap. If you do end up making them, I suggest thrift stores for the fabric, it's cheaper as well as better for the planet.

[Betty K]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:32 AM, GlitchedSalvation said:

As long as you have a good fabric shop and a sewing machine/needle, it really is cheap. If you do end up making them, I suggest thrift stores for the fabric, it's cheaper as well as better for the planet

I don’t think I’m likely to do it since I don’t have a sewing machine, but I think someone could make money from it.

[ChloeL]

I'm really lucky that I've always been very skinny, but I find that the proportions of female clothes aren't quite right so like some of the other women here, I have to mismatch the sizes to try to make things fit a bit better as our proportions are clearly different than genetic girls.

 

But if you ever do a transgender fashion line Allison I'd love to help since it's a great idea to target us as an audience.  And let me know if you are looking for models if this goes through lololol

[Sally Stone]

There are a few online vendors that claim to offer clothing cut for the male body, but unfortunately, most of those offerings consist of clubwear.  While it's nice to have a couple of things for clubbing, I know we are all talking about everyday women's wear.  I've learned over the years that finding feminine clothing that fits my unique shape, is hard and it I have to try on so many different things to find something that fits properly.  It's why I love department store shopping.  I can try on dozens of items without having to buy.  I have been successful filling my wardrobe, but it does take lots of effort.

 

Allison, I think your idea would make shopping for clothing so much easier.  You have my support!

 

I'm not a business type but I have considered making shoes for us.  Again, not shoes with ridiculously high heels; instead, a line of fashionable flats, boots and heels made specifically for our unique foot shape.  This is an area where we need options.

[April Marie]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:52 PM, Sally Stone said:

I'm not a business type but I have considered making shoes for us.  Again, not shoes with ridiculously high heels; instead, a line of fashionable flats, boots and heels made specifically for our unique foot shape.  This is an area where we need options.

There is such a need in this area! I struggle to find everyday shoes - moderate heels, cute flats and wedge sandals, boots or just a pair of cute Keds. Everything pretty much stops at a size 12 in Women's shoes or they jump to whole sizes only...and I'm a 12.5, honey, not a 13. And, while I do enjoy rocking stilettos for a fun evening, I really want something besides stripper heels.

 

So, I am constantly searching for shoes - eBay has been the best source but I avoid anything shipped from China as their sizing seems always smaller and/or erratic. I look for 12W or WW listings as well as 13s since 12.5s seem almost non-existent. I have had some luck but it takes patience and knowing sometimes you just wont be able to find the shoes you like and have to settle for what fits.

[MaybeRob]

Hi 

 

These people have shoes a bit larger than most. Up to size 44.

 

https://www.citychiconline.com/coedition

 

Rob

[April Marie]

1 hour ago, MaybeRob said:

Hi 

 

These people have shoes a bit larger than most. Up to size 44.

 

https://www.citychiconline.com/coedition

 

Rob

Thank you for the link!!! The seem to only have full sizes - as most do after a US Women's 12 (and even below, it seems, on Evans shoes). A 13 for me is generally too large to be comfortable all day and a 12 too small. I am feeling like Goldilocks looking for shoes that fit just right.

[Michelle38]

I mainly get my clothes and lingerie off SHEIN but I have got some good outfits like dresses and skirts tops etc from boohoo women I’ve seen a gorgeous leather pencil skirt on boohoo but waiting till payday to get it hopefully there still have it in my size which is a 12 

[Allison_Marie]

I really appreciate all the feedback everyone has given me here.  I know I haven't posted in a few weeks but I really have been giving this project some thought and have been getting input from various sources, and of course some of these issues I battled myself through my own transition.  I have talked with manufacturers who might be able to help out, and have gotten input from some other people as well, including a few transgender fashion models I have worked with in the past.  Here is what I have so far:

• Larger shoe sizes
• More wide shoes in smaller sizes
• Not just high heels but everyday shoes too
• Is it possible to make larger shoes somehow appear smaller though color or design patterns

• More everyday style clothing
• More mix/match outfits so sizes can be different
• Gloves (fingerless especially) as a fashion accessory
• Clothing that accommodates a larger ribcage
• Plunging necklines are difficult for transgender women, and also make the shoulders appear larger.
• Style that makes waist appear smaller than it really is would help with perception
• Can a gaff be built into some designs when appropriate?
• Do skirt lengths affect perception of where the waist and hips are?  Can we adjust it as needed for a more female ratio?
• Clothing quality should be good enough that it doesn't fall apart when washed.  I have heard a few complaints that fashions for transgender women especially are not well made

• Clothing that is more easily modified
  • skirt hems
  • sleeve length
  • shoulder pads
• The ratio of hip width to shoulder width is different for men and women: Women is 1:1.03. Men it is 1:1.18.  Make clothing that converts in a subtle way to the female proportions which may affect perception
• A waist that is 30 percent narrower than hips in a woman has been found to be a preferred ratio.  I hear this all the time in the women's designs I personally work on.  Can we attempt to come close to this ratio through padding or just through perceptive lines?
• Clothes that "fall away" to give the illusion of more female curvature underneath work better than clothes that fit tightly.  Do certain fabrics give this impression better?
• A few people have mentioned to me that you shouldn't use genetic women to model clothing for transgender women.  It's perceived as deceptive.

Anybody who has any comments on what my research has noted so far is free to comment, as well as any other ideas are always welcome.  I just wanted you all to know that I do appreciate all the comments and wanted to re-assure you that I am taking this idea seriously and I really hope we can make this happen.

 

Allison

[ChloeL]

Thank you so much for taking this subject seriously, Allison.  You are a true inspiration!

 

Your point about clothing that is more easily modified is a really good one, as you can never tell exactly where a sleeve will end, especially when you get something online or can't try it on before you buy.  I think it's awesome that you are getting input from a wide variety of trans women on the subject.  This is really something that doesn't exist and needs to happen!

[Madison_1990]

I think this is a very exciting idea.  It's not easy to find clothing that looks right when your proportions are a little different than a genetic woman.

 

Do you have an idea as far as a price you are looking at?  I find that specialized clothing tends to be expensive.

[April Marie]

I too, agree with the issues and areas you've identified. You've tapped lots of sources for ideas and opinions. For me, truly not someone who has any tailoring skill other than cutting off loose threads, I look for clothes that will fit me off the rack or out of the bag.

 

Sleeve length is always an issue - as it is for my wife who has longer arms than many women for her size. 

 

Mix and match items would be wonderful - it's so hard and expensive to just source things so having multiple options for wear would be a big plus.

 

ANd shoes that fit, from sandals to heels is a dream. I'm tired of stuffing my feet into shoes that are too small or swimming in shoes that are too large because no one really takes the time to make 1/2 sizes above a women's 12.

 

Not to mention any specific stores but one that touts itself for its transgender clothing has really been a disappointment to me, personally. Sizing, fit, quality just always seem to be marginal...yet the prices are not.

 

So, I've taken to sourcing much of my clothing through Amazon...and Talbots on 70% sale.

 

It would be truly wonderful to have a quality, affordable, well-fitting option.

[stveee]

Eventually, I just end up compromising a certain look I really want for comfort and giving the illusion of a less top heavy look overall. 

Shopping online yeilds a lot disappointing results with women's pants, because I usually prefer trendy styles that are only carried in tiny junior sizes. Usually they are not high-waisted enough and are cut to go right up your buttcrack and I am still quite bottom dysphoric. I won't wear tight fitting pants.

Then, since I don't really have the hips for the waist to rest on, I have to have elastic in them. Then I usually want to wear fitting tops cropped to the waist to make my top seem smaller overall. And it seems if I go plus size into an XL the style options are scant.

So I ended up wearing men's pants again, the few I kept, usually utility style. I found a few women's capris and parachute pants from Gap or Old Navy that I like or I even just end up going out in pajama bottoms to run errands. 

So I am going to be utilizing fit and flare style dresses this summer a lot I predict. I have one backless cocktail dress that I will wear out but it teeters on the edge for me and I could only feel comfortable in a dark nightclub setting. Shorts are the same problem for me. 

If I have my favorite outfits on, much of the dysphoria is gone, and I give the appearance of even having a girly shape and HRT filling out has helped a bit, but as time goes along, I get very nit-picky too because any residual male characteristics stick out more to me. 

 

[Allison_Marie]

On 5/13/2023 at 5:02 AM, April Marie said:

It would be truly wonderful to have a quality, affordable, well-fitting option.

 

You are hitting on the big issue, as Madison mentioned as well.  I am nowhere near the price point I want with the manufacturers I have talked with so far, but I am still trying.