I'm not dysphoric. Or am I?

[Mirrabooka]

Brief overview: AMAB, long time lingerie CD, fell in love with my inner woman last year and lost my shame at home, now free falling towards further femininity. Natural small B-cup moobs, accepting wife so far, growing my hair, dressing more flamboyantly and displaying some typically female mannerisms. Non-dysphoric. Don't know where I'll end up. The one and only reason that I did fall in love with my inner woman and I am now happy to let her have her way with me, is that I suddenly realized back then that it is okay NOT to feel dysphoric. Until that point, I thought that I had to hate and eliminate my masculinity to make room for my femininity, which I wasn't prepared to do. I now know that in my case, they can co-exist. 

 

The reason I say that I don't suffer from any form of gender dysphoria is that I'm quite happy to keep presenting as male, albeit a girly one, and I don't hate what I see between my legs. That said, if I woke up one morning and my useless junk wasn't there, I don't think I'd care. But I don't feel compelled to make that happen.

 

I thought of something the other day that actually made me question how genuine I was about my non-dysphoria. I thought of the example of a person who decided to cover their body with tattoos. I don't have a single one of them, it's just not appealing to me because I see tattoos as personal graffiti, but I hold nothing against anyone who has them. I came to the conclusion that people alter their bodies whether artistically or for any other reason because they don't like what they were born with and even in the simple case of tattoos, it is a form of dysphoria. I then thought of my own situation, with growing hair and longer nails, and immediately felt like a hypocrite. Have I changed my physical appearance because I hated my old self? I do feel better than what I did before because of what I see in the mirror now, but does that mean that I'm in denial that I didn't like my old self?

 

I feel like I'm very close to a tipping point in my journey. I love my new self but I don't think I hated my old self. Is it possible to keep feeling comparatively euphoric vs. my old normal self, or is how I'm feeling now normal because I was comparatively dysphoric?

[KathyLauren]

I can't tell you how to feel.  If you say you don't experience dysphoria, I will not disagree with you.  However, I reserve the right to be skeptical.

 

It took me a long time to recognize my dysphoria for what it was.  Mine was 95% social and only 5% physical, but it was there, unrecognized, for decades.  I recognize it much better in hindsight than I did at the time.

 

With my 20/20 hindsight, I suddenly got clarity on an event from my teen years.  I was 17, and for my birthday or perhaps it was Christmas, my mother got me an electric shaver.  I wasn't just disappointed; I was offended.  I rationalized my way past the offense: I was (supposedly) a boy; boys grow up to be men; men grow facial hair, etc..  So it was a sensible, thoughtful, practical gift.  Yet the offended feeling remained.  It was simply not right that I would grow facial hair!  (And incredibly stupid that I would then be required to shave it off, but I already knew that society was stupid.)

 

It was only with the benefit of nearly 50 years of hindsight that I realized that that was an early experience of gender dysphoria.  Seen from the point of view of a teen-aged girl, of course it wasn't right that I would grow facial hair.

 

I tell you this only to point out that clarity often takes time.  I don't wish dysphoria on anyone.  If you aren't experiencing it, then good for you.  Enjoy its absence.  But if in time you find that it was lurking there, don't be surprised.

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Mirrabooka said:

I came to the conclusion that people alter their bodies whether artistically or for any other reason because they don't like what they were born with and even in the simple case of tattoos, it is a form of dysphoria.

I don't think of my tattoos this way.  I've gotten them over a number of years.  They're kind of like a journal of my life, marking where I was at the time.  The last couple are definitely not guy tats.  I guess I'm saying they are more additions then to cover up something.

 

I didn't really feel dysphoria about my body until my egg cracked.  I suppose before that, my "male" body was another way to avoid facing the girl that I was in my heart.  But now…  Yeah, there are things I would prefer to be different.  Hormones do help some, but they can only do so much at my age.

[Rianon]

I'm like Kathy Lauren in never telling anyone she is or isn't anything. I strive to honor a person's self-assessment. However, an observation drawn from my therapy experience was the critical need for me to integrate all parts of my fragmented self into a whole person and then respect and treat that person kindly. I can remember how, when I first explored what I felt were personalities in conflict, I talked about my "new self" and my "old self," as if one self lived in Colorado and the other lived in California. 🙂 It took me a long time to realize that both selves were me, and it wasn't until I managed to integrate those two selves that I began to feel happy and at peace with the world. I realize that sounds a little New Agey, but from my experience, there's something to be said for not thinking of yourself as two polarized selves. In any event, good luck on your journey! I applaud your courage. ––Rianon

[Ivy]

Same me, new chapter.

[Mmindy]

Good afternoon Mirrabooka, and others,

 

My dysphoria comes from my body hair, and not so much my genitalia. However I think that zero depth vaginoplasty, would be my dream surgery once my income settles. As for my tattoo, and building on it for a sleeve. I'm very proud of my tattoo, and the symbolism it has for me and my fire service. I never thought of it as a manly tattoo because of the number of strong women in the fire service too. It is a Black Maltese cross, with a red banner for those who made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty. It also has a lone red heart for John Wysong, my academy mate who died in the line of duty. He was my first real heart breaking grief experience. The Maltese cross is surrounded by blue Morning Glories, symbolizing that I wake up in glory everyday. I got it the year I stepped away for the active fire service. As I build around this tattoo, I'll incorporate a transgender color caterpillar, chrysalis, and butterfly. As a mater of fact I do wear my heart on my sleeve.

[Lydia_R]

Hello Mirrabooka,

 

I too feel that I have not experienced much gender dysphoria in my life.  I'd say that I've intentionally tried to not be masculine more than trying to be feminine.  I've always enjoyed long hair and relatively long nails.  I've always enjoyed soft clothing.  I started HRT in September of 2022 and came out to everyone by Halloween 2 months later.  So I've been over the tipping point and I'm having the time of my life with it.  I feel a greater sense of freedom to present however I want.  Perhaps the freedom is an illusion as now I'm firmly in this transfeminine mode, but this is my choice.

 

I enjoyed having sex as a male, although I didn't get a lot of opportunities for that.  I'd love to have my male junk removed.  I haven't stood to go to the bathroom in about 7 years now and would get satisfaction out of peeing like a woman.  I try to go through life not hating what I am in the moment.  I've been pretty passionate about that attitude.  Transfeminine is what I am now and will be for the rest of my life.  For me, this is just as it should be.  I don't think I would have been overly surprised by this 30 years ago.  I probably would have just nodded me head and say "I can see that."

 

Lately, I've been feeling that I don't know where I'll end up on the sexual spectrum.  But in the last few weeks, I've felt myself fantasizing about being with a woman and relating to being a lesbian of sorts.  I did have a nice man bring me firewood and cut some kindling for me yesterday though.  That sure felt good!  I was a bit of a damsel in distress!  It feels great to be free of the testosterone based sexual insanity (my view of it).  I don't want that coming back.

 

Hugs,

Lydia

[Maddee]

Interesting people here!

 

No no no no no no no no no no no no

I want to be her I want to be her I want her  I want to be her I want her I want to be her I want her I I want her want to be her I want her I want her I want to be her I want to be her I want to be her I want to be her. I want him I want to be her
 

Live free as much she as can be  

[Mirrabooka]

Wow, I'm blown away with the lovely heartfelt replies here, from my new sisters. It's given me so much more to think about! I'll try to respond now, but I think I need to take more time to process it all properly.

 

Kathy, you make a lot of sense with the hindsight aspect. I'm happier now compared to how I was, but I think my reference point is different to most folk here. The trajectory of mt journey is the same though. 

 

Ivy, I get what you say about tattoos being like a journal that reflects your evolution. I'm sorry if that hypothetical example that I used came out wrong. To you, Hannah and Mindy, wear your tatts with pride.

 

Rianon - thank you, just thank you. Lydia, I can relate! Maddee, you are an angel.

 

Love to you all.  ❤️

[Betty K]

I don’t think dysphoria need manifest in hatred for your genitals or for any particular body part. In my case, my first conscious taste of dysphoria occurred after an intense experience while crossdressed. For the first time ever, I had seen myself as a woman, and I felt at home and at peace in a way I’d never imagined possible. The next morning, back in man mode, I could barely stand to be seen, I felt so fake! I looked at my reflection in a window as I walked through the city and thought, “That’s a man’s walk, not my walk. I learned to walk like that, so that the other boys wouldn’t know I was feminine.” I heard my voice as I spoke to the mechanic who was fixing my car, and I realised I’d learned to talk that way too — at that pitch, with those kinds of words — so as to fit in with other men. For about a week, virtually everything I did seemed fake and studied. It was a life-changing realisation: I had trained myself to be a man; I had lived an inauthentic life. 
 

22 hours ago, Rianon said:

but from my experience, there's something to be said for not thinking of yourself as two polarized selves.

I totally agree with this. It reminds me of when cis people (wives, mothers, etc) complain that they feel they are losing a husband or son when their loved one transitions. In such cases we generally try to remind them we are still the same person: they are not losing anything but an illusion; they are gaining a more authentic person. So I feel we should be consistent in thinking of ourselves that way too. 

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, Betty K said:

they feel they are losing a husband or son when their loved one transitions… they are not losing anything but an illusion

The thing is that it is the "illusion" that they want to keep.  

We all have ideas about how or what another person is.  Unfortunately they are built on our perceptions of the person regardless of how accurate they are.

[Nicole D]

Very thought-provoking discussion. I'm relating this to my own journey. This morning I found myself looking at my male self in a mirror and thinking how drab and unappealing. Not a big deal, but interesting. Now maybe I just need to get a haircut and new clothes, or maybe this is my first mild taste of dysphoria.

I think keeping the male and female versions of me integrated and valued would be wise, based on what I am reading here. I've heard that often the old male self will fade over time. In my case I don't want that to fully go away for the sake of my spouse, who will probably always see me primarily as a man. I think it would be asking too much of her for that to go away completely. Yes, it is still me and the male side might be an illusion. But if the roles were reversed and my wife were to transition to fully masculine, I think I might find that difficult to say the least.

Love,

Nicole.

[Betty K]

13 hours ago, Ivy said:

The thing is that it is the "illusion" that they want to keep.  

I do understand and I do have sympathy with that perspective, but I think we can help our loved ones accept the reality by not feeding the fantasy. The reality is we are the same people, only in most cases vastly happier, after transition. 

[Betty K]

6 hours ago, Nicole D said:

But if the roles were reversed and my wife were to transition to fully masculine, I think I might find that difficult to say the least.

I don’t know if this is a fair comparison, since I’m guessing that your wife is not and has never been interested in transitioning. But let’s presume, for the sake of argument, that you are trans and have always been trans deep down. This means your wife fell in love with a trans person, whether knowingly or not. You, on the other hand, fell in love with a cis person. Therefore your shock and dismay would presumably be far greater if she somehow magically became trans. 
 

This is just a thought experiment, of course, but it dismays the heck out of me when I hear people say they could not transition because of what it do to their partners. 

[Mirrabooka]

21 hours ago, Betty K said:

I don’t think dysphoria need manifest in hatred for your genitals or for any particular body part.

I'm nodding my head here, but at the same time wondering why I never thought of it in that way before. I used to think that dysphoria was exclusively black and white, a hate-what-you-see-and-get-rid-of-it kind of thing. I talked earlier about my reference point. For me, I have gone from feeling 'normal' but a bit different to somewhat euphoric by allowing my femininity to shine, rather than someone who goes from dysphoric to feeling 'normal' by transitioning. I feel extremely lucky that I have never hated my body the way some folk do. I now know that at some point in the future after I evolve more, I will have the ability to look back at the person I was before I came out to myself and make a comparison. Only then will I be able to know whether I had some level of dysphoria or not. 

 

For those whose dysphoria is obvious and a struggle to deal with, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Hugs.

 

22 hours ago, Betty K said:

It reminds me of when cis people (wives, mothers, etc) complain that they feel they are losing a husband or son when their loved one transitions. In such cases we generally try to remind them we are still the same person: they are not losing anything but an illusion; they are gaining a more authentic person. So I feel we should be consistent in thinking of ourselves that way too. 

I have a theory about this, specifically about the wife or spouse aspect. 

 

A dear friend of mine once said that gender was more about heart, soul and mind rather that what is or isn't between our legs. From that, if our spouses are true soul mates, they will accept that physically transitioning will not alter any of those things and that we as people will essentially not be any different. If they don't accept it and feel the need to grieve or separate, maybe they were never really capable of looking beyond skin deep? 

[Ivy]

49 minutes ago, Mirrabooka said:

A dear friend of mine once said that gender was more about heart, soul and mind rather that what is or isn't between our legs.

There is some truth to this.  However, sexuality is also involved.  And physical intimacy is also a part of most marriages.  Not everyone is bisexual, pan or some variation thereof.  I think that sometimes the only course may be separation, yet still remaining friends - even close friends.  

[Mmindy]

7 hours ago, Betty K said:

The reality is we are the same people, only in most cases vastly happier, after transition. 

Betty, this is the lesson I hope my wife can learn.

We're doing so much better in conversation and communication now that she knows who I've always been. It was so tough for me to live the male lie.

 

Mindy🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[Betty K]

44 minutes ago, Mirrabooka said:

For me, I have gone from feeling 'normal' but a bit different to somewhat euphoric by allowing my femininity to shine

Now you’re talking! I love discussions of gender euphoria, which to me has been equally as important as dysphoria. It’s euphoria that tells me I’m on the right track, that makes me want to get up in the morning, that makes the dysphoria worthwhile. I’ve been pleased to see an increasing focus on gender euphoria not just among trans people but in healthcare circles. What better motivation could there be for pursuing our journeys?

 

51 minutes ago, Mirrabooka said:

From that, if our spouses are true soul mates, they will accept that physically transitioning will not alter any of those things and that we as people will essentially not be any different. If they don't accept it and feel the need to grieve or separate, maybe they were never really capable of looking beyond skin deep? 

I think this is true to a degree, but since sex enters into it I don’t know if it can ever be quite that simple. Certainly if our spouses are soulmates they will remain soulmates, but does it follow that the relationship won’t need to “break up” in some fashion before reconstituting itself in another? I don’t think so.
 

I consider myself lucky to have broken up with my ex-wife before I accepted that I would transition. This spared me the feeling that she was rejecting me because of my gender, or that my revelation re my gender had ruined our relationship. We broke up, I “hit rock bottom”, and at the very lowest point I realised I wanted to transition. Over the next 18 months or so we lived in separate states and saw very little of each other, and I accepted that whatever happened between us in future we would never have a sexual relationship again. When I then moved back closer to her and began transitioning, we found we had a wonderful friendship, which we fairly quickly realised suited us both better than our marriage ever had. We are now closer than ever. I am so glad for how things have turned out. We feel like true soulmates.

 

In my case, the realisation that I was trans flipped my sexuality on its head. I decided I was more sexually interested in men than women and so far that has not changed. But even had that not happened, hormones would have changed my sexuality anyway — the way I experience and conceive of sex, the way my genitals behave — and I therefore think it would have been unfair for me to expect my wife to stay with me in a sexually committed relationship unless she liked those changes. 

[Betty K]

21 minutes ago, Mmindy said:

Betty, this is the lesson I hope my wife can learn.

I hope so too Mmindy. I’m glad to hear things are going well.

[April Marie]

My wife and I almost seem more committed and stronger now - at least she understands what was causing my depression and unhappiness. We both know that we truly love each other and are committed to remain together. She's commented how much happier I am now and has commented that I've regained much of my emotional resiliency - and she even recognizes when circumstances require extended periods of time in my "Male" persona that I need the time to reconnect with the real me and encourages me to do it. I'm truly blessed.

 

The dysphoria remains, especially when I look in the mirror and my body. I also love the term gender euphoria because it is euphoric to see myself as my mind tells me I should look.

[Mirrabooka]

@Ivy @Betty K you are right, the sex side of things is something I didn't think about. Thinking about it now, I understand how it could be a game changer despite soul-matedness.

 

Congratulations to those who's partners were willing to essentially change their sexuality to fully accommodate your transitions.

[Dillon]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:54 AM, Betty K said:

I don’t think dysphoria need manifest in hatred for your genitals or for any particular body part.

I find this is the case for me too. Social dysphoria hits me much harder than physical dysphoria. I do have significant physical dysphoria with my breasts, and I wish I had known there was a medical option to have them removed, before I became too ill for surgery. But I do manage to cope with that physical dysphoria. Coping with social dysphoria has been much harder. I think it's because I embraced the message that I was female for so many decades and my mind is so used to thinking of myself that way. When social dysphoria gets strong, it makes me feel like I don't exist. I've learned, with a lot of help, to do things that support my true identity as a man. Like wearing a hat that feels masculine to me and making sure my pronouns are in my email signature.

[Betty K]

3 hours ago, Dillon said:

I think it's because I embraced the message that I was female for so many decades and my mind is so used to thinking of myself that way.

That’s it exactly in my case, except that I’m AMAB of course. That conditioning is just so pernicious, I think it’s at least equally as distressing as the fact that my ageing body does not respond so well to hormones. And then when people call me “he” or “sir” it’s like they’ve whacked me right on the wound. 

[Rianon]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:59 AM, Betty K said:

And then when people call me “he” or “sir” it’s like they’ve whacked me right on the wound. 

I still smile in remembering my toddler's divided reaction to overhearing someone refer to me as "she." I had a girlish face which, in those early years, both pleased and displeased me. It would displease in the extreme once I was in high school, forever devising ways to "butch up" my looks. But as a pre-teen, if I were to hear someone misgender me –– as sometimes would happen when I'd be with my parents at restaurants ("Something else for your daughter?") –– I'd both cringe and groan (and blush), all the while be privately pleased as punch!  ––Rianon

[Mirrabooka]

I can't believe it has almost been a year since I felt strongly enough about this subject to start writing about it.

 

Something happened today that hasn't happened before. 

 

It was actually a pretty good day. My inner woman has been running strong lately, and the inner glow that I feel because of her manifests itself in the form of serenity. This morning was a bit different to most. My wife and I normally go to bed pretty late, around midnight, and I normally get up well before her. I will dress in the ensuite and if I had decided to wear a bra that day, I will check my look for camo purposes, in case we are in public that day. This morning, we set the alarm due to an early salon appointment for my wife. After getting up at 4:30am for a pee, I didn't fall asleep again until around 6, and was startled by the alarm at 7:30, which is beyond my normal rising time. So, I sat on the edge of the bed and put on my chosen bra in front of my wife instead of privately in the ensuite while she slept. This is no big deal, but it set up the rest of the day.

 

Her time at the salon allowed some private time for me at home, which was beneficial. 

 

Later, just before picking her up, and knowing that I had to visit a business premises to cancel a membership, I removed the bra, because it was a bit obvious under my tee. No big deal, this is normal for me. Late this afternoon, my wife's sister rang her, and as per usual it was just to whine about this and that. My sister-in-law is an absolute dingbat and I could feel the rising stress level in the house from my wife trying to deal with her. Something made me go to our room and I put my bra back on, this time with chicken fillets to fill it out properly, and there was an instant feeling of...calmness...serenity. I had run to my inner self and felt better immediately. 🩵 

 

I don't know whether it is through the power of suggestion because of the knowledge I have gained from reading this excellent article which@KayC originally linked, or whether it is just another step in my journey, but for the first time ever I am seriously thinking that the form of dysphoria that I might be experiencing is real enough for me do something about it. It's scary.