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Breast growth


Jamielynn

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Okay so I’m new here do any of y’all have any advice for breast growth without HRT. I’m not at that point in my life yet but would love to see a little improvement in that area. 
 

Thanks

    Jamielynn 

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2 hours ago, Jamielynn said:

Okay so I’m new here do any of y’all have any advice for breast growth without HRT. I’m not at that point in my life yet but would love to see a little improvement in that area. 
 

Thanks

    Jamielynn 

 

Jamielynn, breast growths a mystical science depending on a myriad of different things. Genes are important, and your siblings and mother can provide some guidance, but you will not have the same conditions as them. Hormones are the other factor, but it is more complex than you might imagine! Basically, if you reduce Testosterone and increase Oestrogen, development of secondary sex characteristics normally occurs. But this has lots of aspects, not all of which are yet understood. 

 

HRT effectiveness will depend on individual biology, not just your genes, but how many and how well your hormone receptors work. This will dictate dose and effect, and few doctors understand this. Without HRT, there is far less Oestrogen in your system, so it relies on also having very low Testosterone, and lots of luck. Obesity, special diets, and herbal supplements have been used to attain breast growth, and some people even use mechanical means like breast pumps. Unfortunately, these methods have very low success rates, are usually not cost effective, and are often temporary. Methods which cause swelling of the existing tissue, and adding fat are temporary. If breast tissue growth can be attained, it is usually permanent. Very few people taking herbal supplements achieve this, and overall it usually works out much more expensive. There are also sometimes undesirable side effects.

 

Even breast growth with HRT is a bit of a lottery, but it is by far the most reliable method. If you are wanting just a small amount of breast growth without needing social transition, a doctor experienced in cross sex hormone administration may be able to assist you, but, there is no way the guarantee you will get just what you want. Reducing T is a basic step, but there is no guarantee this won't be permanent. It is important to note that hormones control many body functions, not just sex characteristics, so playing around with them (either via supplements or HRT) can affect other parts of your body. These can include bone density and immune systems, so any administration of hormones should be done under the care of a doctor with regular blood checks. 

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

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16 minutes ago, AllieJ said:

 

Jamielynn, breast growths a mystical science depending on a myriad of different things. Genes are important, and your siblings and mother can provide some guidance, but you will not have the same conditions as them. Hormones are the other factor, but it is more complex than you might imagine! Basically, if you reduce Testosterone and increase Oestrogen, development of secondary sex characteristics normally occurs. But this has lots of aspects, not all of which are yet understood. 

 

HRT effectiveness will depend on individual biology, not just your genes, but how many and how well your hormone receptors work. This will dictate dose and effect, and few doctors understand this. Without HRT, there is far less Oestrogen in your system, so it relies on also having very low Testosterone, and lots of luck. Obesity, special diets, and herbal supplements have been used to attain breast growth, and some people even use mechanical means like breast pumps. Unfortunately, these methods have very low success rates, are usually not cost effective, and are often temporary. Methods which cause swelling of the existing tissue, and adding fat are temporary. If breast tissue growth can be attained, it is usually permanent. Very few people taking herbal supplements achieve this, and overall it usually works out much more expensive. There are also sometimes undesirable side effects.

 

Even breast growth with HRT is a bit of a lottery, but it is by far the most reliable method. If you are wanting just a small amount of breast growth without needing social transition, a doctor experienced in cross sex hormone administration may be able to assist you, but, there is no way the guarantee you will get just what you want. Reducing T is a basic step, but there is no guarantee this won't be permanent. It is important to note that hormones control many body functions, not just sex characteristics, so playing around with them (either via supplements or HRT) can affect other parts of your body. These can include bone density and immune systems, so any administration of hormones should be done under the care of a doctor with regular blood checks. 

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

Thank you so much for that very informative information truly I do. I have been seeing a therapist on some other issues with abandonment at the moment and she is knows a little on my dysphoria but we have not a addressed it yet. 
 

Lots of Hugs 

  Jamielynn 

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20 minutes ago, Jamielynn said:

Thank you so much for that very informative information truly I do. I have been seeing a therapist on some other issues with abandonment at the moment and she is knows a little on my dysphoria but we have not a addressed it yet. 
 

Lots of Hugs 

  Jamielynn 

 

Jamielynn, Dysphoria is another thing which seems to mystify therapists, probably because few have ever experienced it! It is listed under the DSM as a mental disorder, but I believe that in time it too will be reclassified to a medical condition. Our brains develop, sometime in the second trimester of our pregnancies, to be cross sex, and anything we do to affirm our birth sex causes conflict with our gender identity. This manifests as stress or building frustration known as dysphoria, and usually grows until we affirm our gender identity (by having thoughts, dressing etc.). This is akin to pulling our hand away from a hot flame, it is a reaction to stimulus, not something cognitive we get to think about and decide if we want it. Your therapist will likely come up with ways for you to distract yourself from dysphoria, but affirmation is the only way to truly reduce it.

 

Good luck with your journey, but keep bouncing things off your peers, as the mental and physical care systems are still learning about all of this!

 

Hugs,

 

Allie 

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Hi @Jamielynn, I am not sure I have much to add about breast growth without HRT, but you could try wearing breast forms possibly. One thing to keep in mind is how proportional the breasts are to the body. This means that the same cup size will tend to appear smaller on a larger band size. You can wear a bra with molded cups to achieve a fuller and rounder look under clothing. Clothing can also define the bust more, with v-necks and square necks tending to do so the most.

 

Everyone's experience with HRT will vary, if and when you decide to go that way. I must share that when I first started my medical transition, I was pretty much convinced I would need every procedure available to me in order to pass or feel right. However, my feelings have evolved over time and I no longer want top surgery.

 

Love,

~Audrey.

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3 hours ago, AllieJ said:

 

Jamielynn, Dysphoria is another thing which seems to mystify therapists, probably because few have ever experienced it! It is listed under the DSM as a mental disorder, but I believe that in time it too will be reclassified to a medical condition. Our brains develop, sometime in the second trimester of our pregnancies, to be cross sex, and anything we do to affirm our birth sex causes conflict with our gender identity. This manifests as stress or building frustration known as dysphoria, and usually grows until we affirm our gender identity (by having thoughts, dressing etc.). This is akin to pulling our hand away from a hot flame, it is a reaction to stimulus, not something cognitive we get to think about and decide if we want it. Your therapist will likely come up with ways for you to distract yourself from dysphoria, but affirmation is the only way to truly reduce it.

 

Good luck with your journey, but keep bouncing things off your peers, as the mental and physical care systems are still learning about all of this!

 

Hugs,

 

Allie 

I would love to know more about this. Do you have links where we can read more, Allie? I hear so many people (including myself) saying to folks around them "this isn't going to go away" (even though others don't understand this) ... I feel that too. It would be nice to know a little more why. Thanks!!! And thanks for all you do to keep us so well informed!

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3 minutes ago, EasyE said:

I would love to know more about this. Do you have links where we can read more, Allie? I hear so many people (including myself) saying to folks around them "this isn't going to go away" (even though others don't understand this) ... I feel that too. It would be nice to know a little more why. Thanks!!! And thanks for all you do to keep us so well informed!

 

Thank you EasyE!  I have been researching this for years and have lots of links, but just google transgender brain and you will see lots of information (some conflicting) but concentrate on Bed Nucleus. This area of the brain is structured to sense what is happening around you and send signals to the rest of the brain. It was originally only thought to control anxiety, and the fight or flight reflex, but it has been found to be sexually dimorphic in structure, and is likely the centre of gender identity. In this case (still being researched) the signals it sends to the rest of the brain would be dysphoria. (if/when they can prove this it should mean GI and Dysphoria are not mental.) There is no way to change the Bed Nucleus atm, so 'it isn't going away'!

 

You need to read a number of papers as each of them has parts of the story, and it is still being developed.

 

Hugs,

 

Allie 

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@Jamielynn One factor in breast growth is body type and amount of body fat.  The modern western ideal of "slender but with large breasts" seems to be fairly unusual in nature.  The women in my life (just a sample) tend to follow the pattern of "slender = smaller breasts and thicker = larger breasts."  

 

Yes, decrease testosterone and increase estrogen will yield secondary sex characteristics.  Within limitations.  Two of my friends are MtF, and both have HRT.  Even with HRT, neither has large breasts.... a full A-cup or small B-cup at most.  Both are fairly slender and physically active.  If they wanted something larger, they'd likely have to look at augmentation.

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@awkward-yet-sweet, yep, my research has also found that. I've looked into the effects of hormone treatment whether it be for feminization or for medical purposes. If a guy is already a bit heavy and approaching his senior years, he might very well develop large breasts. Someone younger and more slender might not. It is the balance between T and E that will determine the secondary sex characteristics rather than the outright levels. That balance is already skewed in older, heavier folk.

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I had an orchi 2 years ago, so no testosterone now.   Also no E because I’m a stroke survivor.  Yet, my breasts seem to be growing still.   Maybe I have endogenous E in my body.   Maybe the imbalance toward E is causing the growth?

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1 hour ago, Rishaya said:

Neuroscientist here.   There is the SDN (sexually dimorphic nucleus) is likely also involved.

 

Rishaya, are you saying SDN is involved in Breast Growth, or Dysphoria?

 

You may have some E in your system or be taking E via diet or supplements, and with no T, it could cause breast growth. It is generally not healthy to have no hormones in your system, so I'm surprised a doctor hasn't prescribed some. Do you get you blood tested for hormone levels?

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

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I get bone scans which have been excellent.  Plus vit D and calcium.   I’ll be monitored every year by my endo.  I could take biophosphenates if needed

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5 minutes ago, Rishaya said:

Sexual dimorphic nucleus.   Part of the brain likely involved in being trans

This is the diagram from Harvard I use to help explain this.

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

Screen Shot 2020-08-21 at 2.12.52 pm.png

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As for hormones, no doctor will prescribe estrogen to a stroke survivor.   And I certainly don’t want that T poison in my system.   I just need to handle it like a postmenopausal cis woman.

 

I think I may ask my endo if there is a SAFE way for me to take estrogen again, maybe the lowest possible dose via patch.,, I certainly use some that estradiol peace in my brain.

 

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