Sort of a Lousy Introduction

[Abigail Genevieve]

18 minutes ago, EasyE said:

I more fear being caught wearing a bra with folks who know me (family, friends, church members) ... I have no courage around the family most of the time, however. sad

Do you want to change that? Do you have plans in mind?  Have you tried?  I don't know, just curious to see what works. I have a family out there that someday may see me out there, if you know what I mean.

 

My wife and I had a discussion years and years ago in which I explained where I am at (in no major way has it changed) and I said I knew she wanted a manly husband and I would do that for her, BUT I also needed to wear feminine clothing that looked male, because it works.  She is actually more accepting of me where I am than I am.  She commented a while back that tights are historically a male clothing item.  I am not there yet.  I also said that I wanted this to not be a daily item of discussion, because I view that as unhealthy.  She found purple panties one day in our closet that I had accidentally dropped out of the laundry and said nothing.  She has said things twice when she thought what I was wearing was over the line.  She wants this to work for both of us, as I do, and recent said in general that if someone is transgender and needs to transition, she would not be opposed to it.  I did not press the point in my case.   She physically needs my masculine strength: I work out and I have adequate muscle to take care of her; if I did hormones and if they worked that would not help her.  TG is not the only thing in my life, even if I am currently posting like crazy here.  I don't think that will last.  At some point my posting rate will go way down.

 

I have no idea where my kids are on this.  I know where my church is officially on this which is that TGs are welcome as members but not in leadership, if I recall correctly from the denominational document on sexuality, which I find lacking in many ways.    Friends?  Some I think would be shocked and outraged maybe even to the point of breaking the friendship, others I expect would be supportive.  If I ever decided to transition, I would begin with each one by finding out where they are at before shocking them with the unexpected.  My parents are dead and siblings wouldn't care.

[EasyE]

17 hours ago, Abby Gen said:

Do you want to change that? Do you have plans in mind?  Have you tried?  I don't know, just curious to see what works. I have a family out there that someday may see me out there, if you know what I mean.

 

Yes. No. Not sure. Depends on the moment... 😉

 

I have always been a very cautious person, go with the flow, don't rock the boat, make sure not to make the wife mad, etc. This has not served me well. I know in my mind that assertive communication is the way to go and that my opinions matter, but I crumble around people like my wife, who is a lot like her father, who ruled the roost with an iron fist. I have always really feared what people think of me and hate it when people think ill of me...

 

As with clothing, I find myself testing the waters. I wear things that push the boundaries (ruffle socks, women's pastel shorts, a cami underneath a shirt that obviously is not a guy's tanktop). I live with my dad currently (my mom passed in December). The only time he has said anything is when I was wearing a pair of mary jane shoes. "What are those?" "Ummm..." Most of my clothes are women's items now (jeans, shorts, etc.) but most could pass either way unless you really were paying attention (which most folks are too into their phones and other things to really notice)... 

 

I wore a skirt in public after a couple of doctor's appointments last summer. Man, I felt like the whole world was looking on in disdain. And I was like, "why am I bringing this kind of trouble on myself?" Yet I have this unmistakable urge to present female anyways...

 

My wife and I are currently separated. It started for matters not related to all of this (a long-time porn addiction that finally got found out - blah, not proud of that). We started counseling. Then about this time last year I finally reached the point where I couldn't NOT tell her about all of this. Interestingly she has reacted more viciously toward me over the TG stuff than the porn. I guess it was the last straw? I haven't been a terrible husband to her over the years. The porn was more about my own personal demons but of course I hurt her dearly and take full responsibility. If anything, my worst trait has been my passivity and just general selfishness with time, energy, etc.

 

Interestingly, she was a tomboy growing up. Played baseball with the boys until she was 13, wore her hair short until well after college. I remember folks in college talking about her "boyish" ways (well before we started dating in our late 20s). She told me a few months ago that when she was little that she wanted to be a boy for awhile because she wanted to play sports and not play with dolls (and a lot of doors weren't open to girls in the 1980s with regards to sports, unlike today).

 

I freaked out when she told me that. "How can you not understand a little about what I am going through, only in reverse -- a lot of clothing items are out of bounds for men?" Her response was: "I don't think like that any more. It was just a phase of my life, mostly because I wanted to play sports..." In other words, not about sex, which is what she perceives it is about for me... 

 

Anyways, at some point I am going to have to choose a path and go ... that is the part that scares me... whichever path I choose there will be wreckage somewhere (and I really hate hurting people)...

[Ivy]

@EasyE I can identify with a lot of what you wrote.

 

I think my ex was always the dominant one in our relationship.  I was okay with that.

I think some of us are drawn to porn because it gives us an opportunity to see ourselves in the woman's position without realizing it at the time.  We don't want to be with the woman… we want to be the woman.

When I opened up to a psychologist about this, she told me it was quite common for trans women.  I was kinda surprised.  It helped explain some stuff.

[Abigail Genevieve]

40 minutes ago, Ivy said:

@EasyE I can identify with a lot of what you wrote.

 

I think my ex was always the dominant one in our relationship.  I was okay with that.

I think some of us are drawn to porn because it gives us an opportunity to see ourselves in the woman's position without realizing it at the time.  We don't want to be with the woman… we want to be the woman.

When I opened up to a psychologist about this, she told me it was quite common for trans women.  I was kinda surprised.  It helped explain some stuff.

One thing about guy mode is it always involves a lot of in-my-head porn in which the narrator becomes a woman.  I don't do ANY of that in girl mode.

 

I've stumbled across porn and read some but it does not do anything for me.  In girl mode, nothing. In guy mode the stuff in my head is way better.  This stumbling has usually occurred in trying to figure out what is going on with me, and porn usually leaves me cold if not disgusted.  People get off on this.  Years ago it could but not for a long time, and I never have had an addiction.  As I said, in girl mode it is not attractive, and in guy mode my head-porn is tailored to me and is much more satisfying. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

1 hour ago, EasyE said:

Anyways, at some point I am going to have to choose a path and go ... that is the part that scares me... whichever path I choose there will be wreckage somewhere (and I really hate hurting people)...

While I am not trying to be a counselor, you will have to choose what wreckage you are willing to live with, and what wreckage you cannot stand.  It may take a long time to decide.  Marathon, not sprint.

 

[Abigail Genevieve]

48 minutes ago, Ivy said:

@EasyE I can identify with a lot of what you wrote.

 

I think my ex was always the dominant one in our relationship.  I was okay with that.

I think some of us are drawn to porn because it gives us an opportunity to see ourselves in the woman's position without realizing it at the time.  We don't want to be with the woman… we want to be the woman.

When I opened up to a psychologist about this, she told me it was quite common for trans women.  I was kinda surprised.  It helped explain some stuff.

My wife and I switch who is dominant all through the day.  She can be very much so, but I also have my limits.

 

Interesting about the 'wanting to be the woman'.  In girl mode (for me more of a mindset than clothing selection) I already am there.  In girl mode I could wear all guy stuff and still identify as f, although I would feel cross dressed and out of place and uncomfortable.  In girl mode I don't need to become the woman because I am already there. 

[Ivy]

21 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

In girl mode (for me more of a mindset than clothing selection) I already am there.

I don't think I shift back and forth.  I am what I am.  

I always liked those "romance novels" although I would never admit it as a guy.

There were a lot of things I would never admit as a "guy" that I liked.  You have to keep up that macho image, even you know you're faking it.

[Abigail Genevieve]

20 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I don't think I shift back and forth.  I am what I am.  

I always liked those "romance novels" although I would never admit it as a guy.

There were a lot of things I would never admit as a "guy" that I liked.  You have to keep up that macho image, even you know you're faking it.

The switching is not voluntary and is maddening.  It would be nice to be free of one or the other.  I tend to think that whatever mode I am in at the time is the "real me" - right now, girl. 

[MaeBe]

I tend to not have a mode, per se, but I will code/context switch given a situation. On work calls or when hanging out with longtime guy friends, I operate as I have much of my life; using speech and thinking I have cultivated over the years as a socialized male. When I am meeting new people, I am much more feminine in my interactions. I don’t see this as having another “side” but more like operating on autopilot. Lately, autopilot makes me feel a bit like a liar.

 

Some of my affects have started to sneak into my normally autopilot interactions and it’s almost like a game of chicken if people will catch on, both worrying and exhilarating at the same time. I’m starting to understand why some people want to move and start completely over as their authentic selves, because the discordance created by straddling the known facsimile of you and the you that feels right really wears on a person. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

36 minutes ago, MaeBe said:

I tend to not have a mode, per se, but I will code/context switch given a situation. On work calls or when hanging out with longtime guy friends, I operate as I have much of my life; using speech and thinking I have cultivated over the years as a socialized male. When I am meeting new people, I am much more feminine in my interactions. I don’t see this as having another “side” but more like operating on autopilot. Lately, autopilot makes me feel a bit like a liar.

 

Some of my affects have started to sneak into my normally autopilot interactions and it’s almost like a game of chicken if people will catch on, both worrying and exhilarating at the same time. I’m starting to understand why some people want to move and start completely over as their authentic selves, because the discordance created by straddling the known facsimile of you and the you that feels right really wears on a person. 

In trying to understand this (I am not there yet) I once drew a shape, half-square, half-circle, and put straight lines perpendicular to each other in the square area and little circles at random in the other half, as if both modes are valid, which may be the case.  I can function well in guy mode, with some exceptions.

[Ashley0616]

2 hours ago, Abby Gen said:

In trying to understand this (I am not there yet) I once drew a shape, half-square, half-circle, and put straight lines perpendicular to each other in the square area and little circles at random in the other half, as if both modes are valid, which may be the case.  I can function well in guy mode, with some exceptions.

It all takes time. You are exploring who you truly are. It takes time for that. I'm still learning about myself and I have been out since April 17 2023. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

19 hours ago, Ashley0616 said:

It all takes time. You are exploring who you truly are. It takes time for that. I'm still learning about myself and I have been out since April 17 2023. 

Another model is the negotiating one: doing things acceptable to both the m and f parts.  We agree, for example, that I need to lose weight.  If each part if convinced the other is concerned about the good of both parts, it is well and good, and each should be willing to compromise.  Sounds like multipersonality disorder in which each is aware of and considerate of the other.

 

Still in girl mode, by the way.  Not expecting to change any time soon.  Girl mode is peace and happiness and rainbows and unicorns.

[MaeBe]

56 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

Sounds like multipersonality disorder in which each is aware of and considerate of the other.

You reference yourself as "we", seems like you have two starkly different personas. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to say anything other than that's very interesting!

[Abigail Genevieve]

1 hour ago, MaeBe said:

You reference yourself as "we", seems like you have two starkly different personas. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to say anything other than that's very interesting!

Interesting, amusing, provocative in the sense that I need to give this some thought.  I don't think I am really schizoid, it is just I am not sure how else to express the boy mode versus girl mode dynamic.  As I said, I need to give this some thought.  Thanks for the comment.

[Ashley0616]

The sooner that you start with a therapist the sooner you'll find out what you have. I believe that it's going to take multiple sessions. multiple personalities are a possibility but I'm sure it isn't the only one. I have met with people who have multiple personalities and each personality experienced things differently. There are many possibilities that it could be. None of us are psychiatrists so we won't be able to diagnose you. We can give you opinions and that is it. Another possibility is two-spirit. Again just possibilities noting in stone. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

Another model is that of the male persona that I use to cloak the female one from the world.  I'm leaning that way right now. Not two different personalities or spirits.  And the male persona is not quite successful, the thinking goes, and the female is being more assertive and is actually, when tried, better at dealing with the world than the male persona.  On the internet here and there over the last ten years or more I have presented as female after disliking what I was doing as a male, which seemed flatter, less expressive, dull.  As a female I feel I can let the real me out, which may be the case. 

 

As a male I am forever losing my man card.   There may be a good reason I have trouble holding onto it.

[Ashley0616]

2 hours ago, Abby Gen said:

As a male I am forever losing my man card.   There may be a good reason I have trouble holding onto it.

Things don't have to be decided quickly. Take the time and feel around. Is it something that you are comfortable with and does it make you truly happy? Are you comfortable discussing the reasons on holding onto it? If you want I'll help you with what I can and if that is a message so it's not where everyone can read it. We are here to help each other. Take care.

[Abigail Genevieve]

I am 67.  One of my earliest memories was Mom catching me at the age of 3-4 (I don't remember clearly) wearing my older sister's tutu.  I have been dealing with this for a long time.  For around the last 16 years or so it has really grown as an issue; before then it was background for decades.  Today I would probably be diagnosed and gender changed early on.  Not an easy path.  But I have survived, I survive, and I will survive this.

[Ashley0616]

Simply wearing female's clothes doesn't automatically make you transgender. This is the criteria that determines if you are trans or not. DSM is used by many medical professionals. Table 2. [DSM-5 Criteria for Gender Dysphoria ()]. - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

[Abigail Genevieve]

12 hours ago, Ashley0616 said:

Simply wearing female's clothes doesn't automatically make you transgender. This is the criteria that determines if you are trans or not. DSM is used by many medical professionals. Table 2. [DSM-5 Criteria for Gender Dysphoria ()]. - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

There is a LOT I have not said.   And I have consistently affirmed A-F since I first read this, years and years ago. I still affirm A-F as descriptive of me. Not one or two points, but the whole shooting match.

 

When I was 12 I used to pray before bed that God would make me a girl, and when I woke in the morning I was still a boy.  I read Abby Stein's story and she said the exact same thing. 

[Ashley0616]

19 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

There is a LOT I have not said.   And I have consistently affirmed A-F since I first read this, years and years ago. I still affirm A-F as descriptive of me. Not one or two points, but the whole shooting match.

 

When I was 12 I used to pray before bed that God would make me a girl, and when I woke in the morning I was still a boy.  I read Abby Stein's story and she said the exact same thing. 

Ok maybe. Like I said before I can't diagnose anything I can only give my opinion and nothing else. I hope you are able to find a gender therapist and you can get closure and look forward to more of your posts! Take care!

[Abigail Genevieve]

Sort of logging in where I am at.  Girl mode.  Do I even have a guy mode?  I put on a razorback sports bra in front of the mirror and shook my head and took it off, but that changed nothing.  I like them except the straps will peek out from under a t-shirt. They are great for exercise (I have other sports bras that are not razorback) and if I wear a bra I do not want it showing..  Braless but fine.  Many women would prefer not to have those scratchy itchy bindy sweaty things to deal with it they could help it.  I don't need it physically and it doesn't do anything one way or the other regarding feeling feminine or more feminine, to me an alien concept.  I just am this way regardless of what I am wearing.  Okay, if I am cross dressed in guy clothes I feel dysphoria.  Like this, no. It would be kind of fun to doll up but there is no need to.

[MaeBe]

3 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

Many women would prefer not to have those scratchy itchy bindy sweaty things to deal with it they could help it.

Actually sportsing in sports bras, yeah. I have sensitive skin and those suckers need to come off as soon as possible so I don't break out in a rash. But they're great for keeping things from bouncing around...and back in the day, from presenting my (then) gynecomastia to the world. Now, let's show some straps! ;)

[Ashley0616]

I have no problem with sports bras because they seem to keep things more secure than a regular bra. I'm glad I don't have that much of a problem with sensitive skin. The only skin problem I have is that is very dry and have to constantly apply lotion. 

[EasyE]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:15 PM, Abby Gen said:

 I don't need it physically and it doesn't do anything one way or the other regarding feeling feminine or more feminine

This is a new phenomenon for me. It used to be, as long as I had on women's underwear I was fine. Now, I feel like a bra is a must-have when I get dressed (and I love the Y-back or racer-back varieties).

 

I probably wear one 70 percent of the time (though it is more difficult now that it is warmer and I can't layer to hide them from folks) ... I'm a sports nut and I have noticed male football players wearing what looks a lot like sports bras in some of their workout photos. Interesting... 

 

I have moobs and will use this as my excuse if folks ask about what I have on under my shirt (and, ironically, my wife remarked a long time ago I needed to at least wear a tanktop under my shirts because of, well, protruding n's... ;-)

 

Easy