Ten Commandments Displayed in Public School Classroom

[Ladypcnj]

Louisiana Gov. singed law requiring the Ten Commandments to be displayed in public school classroom, what are your thoughts on this decision? 

[Carolyn Marie]

Prior to Trump's appointments to SCOTUS I would have predicted that this would be overturned, and certainly at the Appeals Court level.  These days, I make no such predictions.  There is a portion of the Federal judiciary that doesn't have much use for the "separation of church and state," or would opine that the Ten Commandments is a secular ideal.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

Take out the first four of them, and the remainder (6) are pretty blah secular.  To me it is not the content of the scripture from them that is a problem, it is the folks shoving the first 4 down someone else's throat, or beating them on the head, or even just the self righteousness they will use to pretend they are great and the other person is cow poop.  See how great I am because I can get laws passed that benefit my belief system. (OH, but I don't really live those things IRL>)

 

 

 

[Ivy]

Well…   as they say a deep subject.

 

I doubt that there are many people, particularly in Louisiana, who are not already somewhat familiar with the Ten Commandments.  And, even if they are posted, one is still (at the point) free to ignore them.

But there is the issue that they are specifically related to one (or maybe two) specific religious traditions.  So it would seem that requiring them does seem to be promoting a particular religious tradition.  And I am admittedly no lawyer, (thank the gods) but that seems to be expressly prohibited by the constitution.

 

But these days, "freedom of religion" seems to be interpreted as the freedom to discriminate against those with "non christian" views.  

 

In the past, I would have expected this to be struck down as soon as it hit a court.  But now, I'm not so sure.  As a exvangelical trans person I don't expect much support anymore.

 

I don't understand why cis het white christians feel that they are being so persecuted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Siobhan F]

I find it amazing that none of the religious fundamentalists propose posting the beatitudes. Perhaps Jesus is too woke?

    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
    Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. (Verse 4)
    Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
    Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
    Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
    Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I don't support making it a LAW mandating that a public, secular school has to have the 10 Commandments on the wall.  I'd prefer it to be an individual/collective choice of teachers, school administrators, and parents. 

 

That said, I definitely don't support the other extreme, which has been more prevalent in recent years - forcing teachers or schools to NOT display them, or forcing them to treat "Satanism" (whether a political joke or an actual belief) as equal to Christianity.

 

The 2nd Table of the 10 Commandments seems "blah and secular" because they were the foundation of a lot of law.  They are really virtues, rather than laws.  I think they promote good social behavior in school and in the rest of life.  Respect God, respect people. 

 

Just now, Siobhan F said:

I find it amazing that none of the religious fundamentalists propose posting the beatitudes. Perhaps Jesus is too woke?

 

I think they are less popular than the Commandments because the Commandments (like law) are often seen as negative.  Easier to tell somebody what NOT to do than to guide them in what they should do. 

 

But it doesn't have to be that way.  My husband introduced me to Martin Luther's explanation of the Ten Commandments, something he has all of the kids memorize.  Each explanation contains something positive.  The Ten Commandments teach us how to live a happy life.  For example, we don't just "not steal" but actively help those around us to secure their property.  We don't just "not commit adultery" but we actively build up and protect our marriages, and encourage other people in theirs.  https://catechism.cph.org/en/10-commandments.html 

[Charlize]

The question is one of supporting one groups set of beliefs over the beliefs of others.  Im sure if some area requires the posting selections from the Upanishads there would be outcries.  Christian conservatives are unfortunately feeling so insecure that they need to force others towards their beliefs.  

Such a pity.  While i don't have issues with The religions born in the old testament, all faiths in a higher power should be a personal not a governmental concern.  

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

 

[Ladypcnj]

What the law makers forgot, not everybody has the same religious beliefs, now they're planning on forcing their beliefs by displaying it in classrooms. It all begins at home from parents teaching their children to treat other students' way before going to public schools. Showing the movie the Ten Commandments, has become a holiday tradition, what gets me is what happens after the movie ends, the world goes right back to their old ways, students do whatever they want.

[Ladypcnj]

Just now, Charlize said:

all faiths in a higher power should be a personal not a governmental concern.  

I agree with you Charlize

[Ivy]

4 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

The 2nd Table of the 10 Commandments seems "blah and secular" because they were the foundation of a lot of law. 

These same "laws" predate the Decalogue, and are not exclusive to it.

I also expect that the commandments being posted will include the 1st Table as well.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, Ivy said:

These same "laws" predate the Decalogue, and are not exclusive to it.

I also expect that the commandments being posted will include the 1st Table as well.

True. God put the Commandments into people's hearts before He wrote them on stone. Abraham lived many years before Moses, and he certainly knew the difference between right and wrong. Some other legal codes have similar elements. Code of Hammurabi was written around the time of Abraham, and shares a few elements with the Ten Commandments.

 

And yes, anybody posting the Ten Commandments on a wall always includes both tables. I don't see a problem with anybody doing that, I would just prefer that not be a government mandate. The government tends to dirty whatever it touches.

[Ladypcnj]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I would just prefer that not be a government mandate.

I agree with you awkward-yet-sweet 

[Charlize]

Freedom of religion means that you may believe that commandments were written on stone or some could believe they were never written or included additional laws or fewer laws.  All good so far.  When they are written in a public supported institution such as a school.... not so good whether required or not.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I do like that our local public schools have the Ten Commandments and the Lord's Prayer on the wall. At least I noticed it in the administration office. I had heard that at one point "Freedom From Religion Foundation" wanted to do a protest here and in the city nearby. I think they figured out that they would be run out of town on a rail, so it didn't happen.  Its our local culture, and people are happy with it.  I think people would be much less happy about it if it was a state law.

[Ivy]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Its our local culture, and people are happy with it. 

There might be a few people less happy, but are afraid to say so.   Just sayin'.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, Ivy said:

There might be a few people less happy, but are afraid to say so.   Just sayin'.

I'm sure there are a few. Just like there are a few Biden voters hidden in the weeds. But I doubt they are truly afraid or unhappy. If they were, why would they live here?  Our local culture is more conservative than a lot of places, even some areas nearby.  And people who move here usually do it because of the culture and politics, especially since 2020.

 

I believe it is one more argument against making a state law about the ten commandments. Walking into a school or a courthouse and seeing the 10 commandments voluntarily placed on the wall lets you know something about the local culture. If it becomes mandatory, it is no longer a useful indicator of what kind of community you are looking at, and can even be one of the bits of evidence you use to decide whether you want to move there.

[Ladypcnj]

update on the current situation

[VickySGV]

If he can't wait, does that mean HE has already filed the action against his state???  It will cost him a couple of million dollars that he really could use for other more cost effective actions with his citizen's money.  A MEME going around that I think is on the spot in regard to the religion thing is that they have money both in printing and related cost to putting the 10 Sorta OK Suggestions on all school walls along with the legal fees and costs, but refuse to spend any money on school lunches for the kids so they can actually learn any of the stuff because they are hungry. Wastrels.

[Ivy]

Just now, VickySGV said:

they have money both in printing and related cost to putting the 10 Sorta OK Suggestions on all school walls along with the legal fees and costs, but refuse to spend any money on school lunches for the kids so they can actually learn any of the stuff because they are hungry.

It's about priorities.

Going hungry is fine as long as you can read the rules.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, VickySGV said:

 but refuse to spend any money on school lunches for the kids so they can actually learn any of the stuff because they are hungry. 

IDK what your school lunches were like, but what my school served was basically inedible.  I just went without lunch, and usually breakfast also. My GF grew up literally starving and stealing to eat, but she did great in school.  I just don't buy the modern idea that kids aren't learning because they are hungry. 

 

Wasted money....some of the biggest waste is what is spent on public education for those who don't want to work or want to be disruptive.  🙄  

 

As for the legal cost, I wonder why it costs money for one government group to sue another? Ain't it all in the same darn system?  A district attorney has a salary, so do public defenders and judges. In a sane world, I would think this is "all in a day's work."

 

[VickySGV]

Lets get this topic back on track of the discussion about whether we are for or against laws imposing religious scripture on people who do not hold the same beliefs. 

[Ladypcnj]

Forcing religious beliefs onto individuals who don't share the same beliefs, can cause problems. I doubt the display of the Ten Commandments will have any effect on the students in classrooms, all they have to do is turn on the news, besides that how about the age groups, what kid would know about all those things listed in the commands.  

[Carolyn Marie]

I saw an interview with the co-author of this law, and when asked about the effect it might have on students of other faiths, or no faith, all the bill author could come up with is, "Well, they don't have to look at it!"

 

That says it all about the mind set here.  It's all just a show to prove to the base how "unwoke" they are.  It's meaningless, and they know it, but they will waste millions of $$ defending the indefensible.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

Just now, Carolyn Marie said:

It's all just a show to prove to the base how "unwoke" they are.  It's meaningless, and they know it,

True this.

I expect the only people actually looking at them, will be people that want other people to see them doing it - and making a point of it.   The kids aren't likely to pay any attention.

[Vidanjali]

Ironically, I believe this mandate violates the first commandment which states it is a sin to commit idolatry. Forcing your religious convictions in such a way so as to alienate, disenfranchise, shame, or harm others prioritizes the ego over the pure essence of God (or however you construe Divinity) which is Love. That is, this action idolizes the ego and a belief system over unity, neighborliness, and love.