Algerian Boxer's Olympics Participation Is "Not a Trans Issue" Says IOC

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/08/01/imane-khelifs-olympic-participation-not-a-trans-issue/

 

But it has become a prejudice issue, and a campaign issue, unfortunately.

 

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

The woman is a cis woman* not a trans woman.  

But now, somehow, this is about trans women?  That's how it got posted on twitter by the usual suspects.  Truth means nothing to some people.

 

*Intersex maybe?

[Vidanjali]

Those in an uproar about it seem to be victim to their own attempts to narrowly define "woman". Khelif was, apparently, assigned female at birth in accord with the popular far-right definition of "female" pertaining to reproductive function. Then, such a female demonstrates dominance in a male-dominated sport and suddenly she's somehow not female enough. The fact that this instantly became a trans issue just proves that there is no gender equality unless there is is trans equality. And I am not saying that restricted to sports - sports is an ongoing, as yet unresolved terrain which will remain unresolved as long as people are so angry about and threatened by it. I am referring to equality in a broad sense (no pun intended). 

[Carolyn Marie]

For some of the folks complaining about her on social media, including J.K. Rowling, it's her appearance that convinced them she's "a man" or trans.  She doesn't fit their notion of what a woman should look like, so she's automatically suspect.  We've seen stories posted on this site, and others, about cis-gen women and girls being harassed and even assaulted because they weren't "girly" enough.  This anti-trans hysteria is going to get someone killed sooner or later.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

Boston Globe Falsely Prints Headline Calling Olympic Boxer Imane Khelif Transgender

 

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/boston-globe-falsely-prints-headline?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=994764&post_id=147314886&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=k5hac&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

Apparently the Globe added the headline themselves even though the (AP) article doesn't make the claim.

[Davie]

Shame on my local paper. Boston Globe. You're right, Imane Khelif was cis at birth and is cis today. Does the newspaper have "Trans Panic?" Perhaps. Not a good look for the paper to repeat lies of Putin in their false headline. I hope they retract it soon.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I have no idea about the real identity of any of the contestants.  Given the conservative Islamic nature of Algeria, I rather doubt Imane Khelif would be trans openly or even privately in a way anybody could find out. 

 

Regardless...the organizers of this year's games chose to put LGBTQ+ folks in a controversial position with the opening festivities.  What on earth did they think was going to happen? 

[Carolyn Marie]

In a related issue, the Boston Globe apologized for a grossly inaccurate headline in it's print edition.  You can read about that dust up here:

 

https://awfulannouncing.com/boxing/boston-globe-imane-khelif-apology.html

 

 

Carolyn Marie

[Carolyn Marie]

And more:

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240803-taiwanese-rally-behind-brave-boxer-lin-at-centre-of-gender-brawl

 

Carolyn Marie

[tracy_j]

It appeared to me that the boxer taking her on just didn't have the temperement for boxing and chickened out. Women (cis) come in all shapes and sizes. Just to be different should mean nothing but people will often latch onto any angle to cover up their failings. The media followed on and stirred things up, as usual.

 

Tracy

[Birdie]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:45 PM, Carolyn Marie said:

cis-gen women and girls being harassed and even assaulted because they weren't "girly" enough

My neighbour years ago was a very nice lady that just happened to be built "like a man". She was very muscular and hairy. She was of course cis-female and not trans, and she had a daughter. 

 

People shouldn't and can't be making assumptions based off "how people look" as that can be wrong as much as it's right. 

 

Yesterday in the lobby I saw the ladies passing a photo of the Olympic fighter around with them all saying, "oh yeah, she is a man". Apparently no doctor needed?

 

If anything, this and other controversies just prove that the "two neatly constructed gender boxes" don't and can't represent every individual. We are all unique, from chromosomes to hormones and even brain wiring. There is NO specific medical test that can determine gender with 100% accuracy. 

There are 100% females walking around with XY chromosomes, and visa versa. 

 

I myself am something in between male and female. I have some of both parts. AMAB, I couldn't even begin to compete in men's sports when enrolled as a child (maybe I just sucked, I don't know). I excelled in water ballet that was predominantly a woman's sport, but was very welcomed (yes I had to use a one piece swimming suit (breasts)).

 

1/1500 children born fall outside of the physical norms (intersex), and this phenomenon has existed since man has walked the earth. 

We are all so very unique, and who would want it any other way. 

[Maddee]

I’m so confused

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Birdie said:

Yesterday in the lobby I saw the ladies passing a photo of the Olympic fighter around with them all saying, "oh yeah, she is a man". Apparently no doctor needed?

These people don't have a clue.  Unfortunately they do have power.

[Mirrabooka]

On 8/4/2024 at 7:14 PM, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I have no idea about the real identity of any of the contestants.  Given the conservative Islamic nature of Algeria, I rather doubt Imane Khelif would be trans openly or even privately in a way anybody could find out. 

 

Regardless...the organizers of this year's games chose to put LGBTQ+ folks in a controversial position with the opening festivities.  What on earth did they think was going to happen? 

Pretty sure that Khelif was named to compete before it was known that there would be a parody during the opening ceremony...but I'm happy to stand corrected.

[Birdie]

Yesterday brought the OT to talk about the Olympic boxer that is being scrutinised for being male and fighting in women's sports. 

She said, "I'm not against trans, but they need to stay out of women's sports!"

I told her, "I'm not trans, and I was born this way. We both agree to that. I don't take hormones nor have I had surgery, but I am neither 100% male nor female."

From what I understand, that boxer is AFAB but intersex. She has male features as well. Calling her trans is absolutely incorrect. 

Now, I don't agree with her competing if he natural hormone levels give her a tactical advantage over other women, just like when I was enrolled into boy's sports as a child my hormones didn't allow me keep up with the others (even with testosterone treatments). 

Chromosome testing can't control applicants, nor can simple hormone testing standards because these can change by current treatments. I really don't think they have one simple test to weed anyone out other than by a case by case basis. 

I'm not a doctor, so I can't make the call on whether she has any advantage over the other women our not. That has to be left to doctors reviewing those contestants. 

[Ivy]

Just now, Birdie said:

I really don't think they have one simple test to weed anyone out other than by a case by case basis. 

I agree with this.  It's the only way it can be done with any fairness.

[Davie]

Khelif wins gold. The crowd cheers wildly. The end. Only bigots felt injured in their gender judgements.

[Carolyn Marie]

55 minutes ago, Davie said:

Khelif wins gold. The crowd cheers wildly. The end. Only bigots felt injured in their gender judgements.

 

And her opponent gave her a warm, sportsman-like hug, too.  Sportsmanship is not a MAGA thing, apparently.

 

Carolyn Marie

[awkward-yet-sweet]

On 8/7/2024 at 11:12 AM, Mirrabooka said:

Pretty sure that Khelif was named to compete before it was known that there would be a parody during the opening ceremony...but I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

The order it happened doesn't really matter... the stuff they did during the opener was bound to stir up extra trouble.  Not saying it was the cause of the discontent, because that was pre-existing, but it sure put a spotlight on it.

 

On 8/8/2024 at 11:45 AM, Birdie said:

From what I understand, that boxer is AFAB but intersex. She has male features as well. Calling her trans is absolutely incorrect. 

Now, I don't agree with her competing if her natural hormone levels give her a tactical advantage over other women, just like when I was enrolled into boy's sports as a child my hormones didn't allow me keep up with the others (even with testosterone treatments). 

Chromosome testing can't control applicants, nor can simple hormone testing standards because these can change by current treatments. I really don't think they have one simple test to weed anyone out other than by a case by case basis. 

I'm not a doctor, so I can't make the call on whether she has any advantage over the other women our not. That has to be left to doctors reviewing those contestants. 

 

As we both know too well, being intersex shows up in so many different ways.  Perhaps if she's intersex, it gave her extra testosterone and a slightly more masculine build.  I'm AFAB, but got none of that - I stayed small and slender, with a thin bone structure.  If hormone variance and physical variance matters, how to we "draw the line" between who is allowed to compete and who isn't?  That could get crazy and invasive really fast, like demanding blood tests and such.  I would think the "weight class" aspect of boxing would already eliminate some of the issues. 

 

Just now, Carolyn Marie said:

Sportsmanship is not a MAGA thing, apparently.

 

In many places, it isn't an American thing, sadly.  I grew up playing soccer, and I did it just because I enjoyed the game.  But I saw some folks (especially parents) getting WAY too competitive about it, losing the real value of the activity. 

[AllieJ]

Digging a bit deeper, this seems to have been pushed, if not concocted by the Russian Mafia. A couple of years ago, the IOC severed ties with the International Boxing Association due to dishonest practices, and management. The management are all Russian, and allegedly affiliated with the criminal group. They pushed the rhetoric that the IBA had disqualified the 2 boxers because they were XY, but there is no confirmation of the testing, nor any confidence, given the history of the IBA. 

 

Then The IBA announced they were paying the Italian boxer US$50,000 prize money for her 46 seconds in the ring. Remember, the IBA is not in any way connected to the Olympics, so there is suspicion that the 'prizemoney' might actually be a payment. The IBA is hoping to discredit the IOC, to pressure them to give the IBA control of Olympic boxing again. I'll leave it to you to imagine why the mafia might want control of the biggest boxing tournament and the boxers competing!

 

Just like the far right, the mafia knows that media and especially social media would embrace an attack on sex variance, and it would put pressure on the IOC. I admit, I have been shocked by the willingness of so many on social media to embrace complete fantasy, without any scrutiny. I saw a post  4 days ago claiming the IOC had disqualified the Algerian boxer and escorted her out of Paris, which of course is completely untrue, but hundreds of people embraced this in the comments! The real scary thing is most of these people vote.

 

It is fruitless discussing the science or biological circumstances of these boxers as we simply don't really know anything about them, and likely won't in the near future! All we know is that the IOC examined their eligibility and accepted them into the competition. And, of course the Algerian boxer won gold. The rest is speculation, likely driven by people I would not like to associate with. 

 

I guess we should learn from this that there is much hysteria about sex and gender diversity, and particularly among people who believe fantasy, so any public discussion of these topics will quickly dissolve into hysteria. So, until, there is significant education and reality awareness, we should avoid discussions on media and social media. 

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[Ivy]

Just now, AllieJ said:

So, until, there is significant education and reality awareness, we should avoid discussions on media and social media. 

Sometimes I need to disagree with the BS, but avoid arguing with people who have already made up their minds, and have no desire to learn anything about what they are arguing about.

[Davie]

Boxer Lin Yu-ting sobs after winning Olympic gold amid gender row.  

Lin unanimously beats Szeremeta in women’s 57kg.

Boxer receives warm welcome inside Roland Garros,

It confirmed the overwhelming supremacy displayed by Lin, who did not drop a round across any of her four fights in Paris. The 28-year-old is a double world champion but had not previously won an Olympic medal. She was beaten in the round of 16 at Tokyo 2020 but proved unassailable here, becoming Taiwan’s second gold winner of the summer.

Lin was received rapturously by the large section of her compatriots inside Roland Garros and sobbed uncontrollably while the Taiwan anthem played during the medal ceremony.

[Vidanjali]

"She won boxing gold. Now Imane Khelif has filed a harassment complaint over claims she's a man and transgender" 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/boxing/boxing-harassment-imane-khelif-1.7292457

[VickySGV]

I am on her side of that one completely.  I still believe we are NOT villains and should not be the basis of any slander toward any person.

[Davie]

16 hours ago, VickySGV said:

I am on her side of that one completely.  I still believe we are NOT villains and should not be the basis of any slander toward any person.

You want villians for this? How about JK Rowling and Elon Musk? They are named in Imane Khelif cyberbullying lawsuit. The Algerian Olympic champion boxer files criminal complaint in France against X over alleged ‘cyber-harassment’.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/14/jk-rowling-and-elon-musk-named-in-imane-khelif-cyberbullying-lawsuit