Is anyone else as scared as I am?

[Nats]

Some of the first-person reporting on this platform about states like Texas and their attitude to trans issues is horrendous.

My heart goes out to people living there, and I feel powerless to help.

I used to visit the US many times a year and had my finger on the pulse of US domestic politics – no longer, but I can feel the nervousness from 3,500 miles away. I wish so much strength and support to everyone for the next four years.  

Europe is hindered in its response to Trump's declared intention to impose punitive tariffs because of extreme right-wing Governments elected in relatively new member States (and they also have similar attitudes to trans people).  The French and German Governments – who are normally influential, after the UK’s departure – are both politically weak.  But anyone who has studied economic history knows that tariffs used in that way tend to backfire.

He is going to bow the knee to Putin over Ukraine with a (cough) “peace deal”. 

He’s threatened the Inuit in Greenland with military invasion unless he's allowed to "buy" the place from Denmark (which legally can't "sell" it). Words fail me (and I have many failings, but inability to deploy the right words wouldn’t normally be counted as one of them).  He says Greenland is vital to US interests, but what’s the difference between that and Putin invading Ukraine (which he said was vital to Russian interests because it wanted to join the EC and was a symbol of NATO encroachment)?

He has refused to rule out military action to take possession of the Panama Canal. It’s not surprising he is (to all practical intents and purposes) supportive of Putin, because he wants to behave in exactly the same way. 

He even thinks Canada should become a US State and keeps saying so.

He is allowing a future senior Administration official to meddle in internal UK politics in support of a rabble-rousing right-wing thug currently serving a jail sentence.  One of the absolute cast iron rules of diplomacy is that you don’t (at least publicly) tramp around with elephant feet in the politics of allied nations, but Trump and his acolytes have always ignored that.  The right-wing thug in question heads a group that have some charming views on trans people, by the way.

He hasn’t even taken office, yet.  The most threatening chaos arguably didn’t happen last time until the end of his Administration on January 6, and that was damaging enough.  This looks exponentially worse.  I “get” that the Democrats and Biden made a pig’s breakfast of the election and made some serious errors in office, but good grief, this is the alternative?!?

Is anyone else as scared as I am? I don’t mean just for trans people (we can take it as read that he sees Texas as a blueprint that should be followed globally).  When I say scared, I mean, for the World? 

In the UK we've just come to the end of 14 years of Conservative Government and just over halfway through that the Conservative Party moderates ("One Nation Conservatives") were usurped by far right extremists (Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Richi Sunak).  A bit like the MAGA people took over the GOP.  They have done serious damage to the UK, not just economically (the incoming Labour Government is trying but, like the Dems, has made some gaffs).  They were awful, but they were nowhere near as bad as Trump.  Not in his league, even.  

So, not even in office and already causing global divisision and chaos.  And he's not alone; there are now ultra right wing groups having a moment in the sun in France, Germany, the UK, various central European countries and elsewhere.

So, really, genuine question ... is anyone else as scared as I am?

[KathyLauren]

Just now, Nats said:

When I say scared, I mean, for the World?

 

Oh, yes, I feel it too.  I just saw a meme where the person is checking their pockets before going out: "Keys - check, wallet - check, mask - check, sense of impending doom - check."  My response was: "And if I forget my sense of impending doom, some kind soul will give me a new one pretty quickly."

 

Some say that World War III has already started.  I can't say that they are wrong.

 

All you can do is to try to keep your head above water.  Keep fighting for what is right.  Keep helping people when you can.

[Ivy]

I don't know about scared, but I have a feeling we are going to be in survival mode for at least the next few years.

[Mirrabooka]

As I've said elsewhere on more than one occasion, even over here, our news seems saturated with coverage of Trump. It is impossible to ignore. He's not even in power yet but has made headlines around the world for saying that he wants to invade or annex other countries. Just like someone else did 90 odd years ago. Hopefully, his bark is worse than his bite. 

 

Musk meddling in UK politics is just plain bizarre. And now we have Zuckerberg sucking up to Trump and getting rid of the fact-check functions on his Meta platforms because he didn't like what they revealed. We are entering the 'post-truth' era. Misinformation and disinformation will skyrocket and half the population will believe it is the truth. Trump could declare that he is God and wrote the constitution, and tens of millions would believe him! Unfettered hate speech will also be a feature, where it will be okay to label women as household objects and trans folk as freaks, for example. There will be nothing to stop it.  

 

Despite the media saturation, I'm not really scared, even though some of Trump's proposed economic policies will have negative effects here. He can't make laws to directly harm people here, so we're safe in that sense. But yes, the world will be different considering that the far right will basically control information and communication. It won't be long until flat-earthers feel vindicated!

 

Will the American people be better off in four years' time? Can't wait to find out. Often attributed to Mark Twain, but I believe it was paraphrased, is the saying "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

[kat2]

I actually like trump, hes attention seeking but has a fun element to him, i do feel he is misguided. I loved it when he said to the north koreans, that at least his button works!! sadly he seems to be infulenced by some bad actors, but hey at least he wants to make America great. He saw IRan for what it truely was and wanted to build a wall between Mexicon and the USA and he would always speak at the white house press conferences, I loved that he took on big farma during covid. I think that if a trans person managed to get really close to him he would change his mind. No UK politician stands up for the UK, like the usa we send too much money to other countries and neglect our own. He wants to produce American steel rather than import it from ccchina

We sold all our industries off including the famous British steel, sadly Great Britain is no more

[Nats]

Just now, Mirrabooka said:

Will the American people be better off in four years' time? Can't wait to find out. Often attributed to Mark Twain, but I believe it was paraphrased, is the saying "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

Yes, quite.  But whilst it's important that people feel better off, and the tariffs he threatens would drive consumer prices through the roof in the US, I don't think that's the issue (you could probably tap-dance selectively through the imports you impose tariffs on, and whilst that wouldn't solve the problem of rising consumer prices, it would limit that impact; also yu could do that strategically to protect the main MAGA demographics and geographical areas).  The reason for fear is that his toy box is filled with ... well, the US military ... and he's barging around in world politics already, and not doing it from an informed base.  

[Nats]

Just now, Mirrabooka said:

Musk meddling in UK politics is just plain bizarre

Isn't this something to do with his trans daughter?  I believe he thinks the UK is a particularly liberal environment for trans people (yeah, erm, 'discuss')?  He apparently makes significant business decisions on the basis of 'gender identity law' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1vd097z7rvo).  

 

In our wider social circle is an ultra-discreet trans woman who is apparently, and quietly, pretty wealthy (I'm guessing multiples of millions, not billions) who once threw into a conversation "if you're in any way different, wealth is the great protector". The context was about someone else but I thought the comment was unintentionally self-revealing.

 

I thought so much about that, in the months afterwards.  And I think in a different way, it applies to Musk.  He has done and said some truly awful things but has never suffered any direct consequences.  

 

But the bromance with Trump may come back to bite him. 

 

They're two egotistical men with a habit of falling out with people they were once close to. 

 

They both express outrageous opinions on topics which they are ignorant about. 

 

They've both changed their political positions fundamentally as self-interest required. 

 

Trump is erratic, unpredictable, and has no volume button - he's full-on loud or silent. 

 

Musk appears to be neurodivergent (something I know a lot about), probably not affecting his numeracy or literacy but possibly having a distorting (not limiting) effect on cognition, and a starker one on his social skills, and that can mean that your ability to negotiate relationships - particularly over the longer term - is challenged.  

 

If they fell out, which seems at least probable, stand well back.  

[Nats]

7 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

I just saw a meme where the person is checking their pockets before going out: "Keys - check, wallet - check, mask - check, sense of impending doom - check." 

That is grimly amusing!!!

[Davie]

Trump is an evil man. But he's also insane and incompetent. It's the billionaires' power we need to fear, not their clowns.

[Nats]

Just now, Davie said:

It's the billionaires' power we need to fear, not their clowns.

Yes.  But actually, I think I fear both, each in their different way.   

[Vidanjali]

9 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

All you can do is to try to keep your head above water.  Keep fighting for what is right.  Keep helping people when you can.

 

Thank you @KathyLauren. That is the truth. And even dare to strive to raise yourself well above the water and soar in the sky!

 

Work on yourself. However you want the world to be, you be that - you set the example. Be good. Do good. Think good thoughts. Surrender negative thoughts and instead, use that mental energy for something positive and productive. Be practical, but do your utmost to let go of fear & be a good influence to all those around you. All effort towards goodness is more powerful than we imagine. None of this is easy, and none of this is said with naivety. But it's the best you can do and that counts a lot. Peace & love.

[Nats]

Just now, Vidanjali said:

Surrender negative thoughts and instead, use that mental energy for something positive and productive. Be practical, but do your utmost to let go of fear & be a good influence to all those around you. All effort towards goodness is more powerful than we imagine. None of this is easy, and none of this is said with naivety. But it's the best you can do and that counts a lot. Peace & love.

You're right, of course.  And we need to keep telling ourselves that.  But the fear comes from the feeling that we're bobbing at the whim of fate unable to influence events.

 

It's the powerlessness in the face of relentless, evil, waves of aggressive ignorance and bigotry that is so depressing. 

 

Every dog has its day and the second and third decades of the 21st Century seem to belong to populist right wing politicians.  This too will pass, I know.  I don't think you're naive, btw, but as you say, none of this is easy.

 

I'm a news junkie but when Boris Johnson, then Liz Truss, were UK Prime Ministers, I gave up consuming news for the sake of my mental health (ditto US news during the last Trump Administration). I may do so again.  I've never done this before in my life, and I'm 273.  Well, nearly. 

 

The alternative is immersion in it all, in order to have a sense of directed political purpose, but there's no political party I feel so close to that membership would be an option, without horrible compromises. It's probably fingers in ears and la-la-la-la time. Or maybe I need to join a party, just focus on the single issue (fighting the populist right wing), and suppress the compromises.  

[Vidanjali]

Just now, Nats said:

the fear comes from the feeling that we're bobbing at the whim of fate unable to influence events.

 

That's well-articulated. If you read that outside of the context of this thread, that is the essence of all fear, really. From a political point of view, it can certainly seem quite grim. From a higher point of view, deeper questions arise regarding mortality and one's essential nature. The wise have taught that you are the architect of your own destiny. The truth of that statement is not necessarily in the unfoldment of external events and circumstances, but from one's perspective and inner life. Just something to consider.

 

Just now, Nats said:

I'm 273.  Well, nearly. 

 

Dahling, you look marvelous 😉😆

[Nats]

@Vidanjali You think on a higher level than I do.  I'm just a simple soul but actually, that's probably the way to go.  I'll try to raise my game.

 

(My friend says once you're past 40, you're always 25 in your head, but she has an advantage - she is past 40, and looks 25 )

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Actually, no I'm not scared.  I feel like we've mostly gotten a 4-year reprieve.  The past four years were what scared the crap outta me.  No, I'm not a Trump fan...he's not a true populist, really.  But I definitely agree on tariffs and ending support for Ukraine.  I earnestly desire an America-First foreign policy. 

 

I believe we've done all the wrong things with foreign policy, and we WERE knocking on the door of WWIII but I think that situation could improve soon.  America's #1 threat is China, not Russia.  The priority should be to split up the Chinese-Russian alliance.  If Trump was smart, he'd offer Putin a sweetheart deal - let him do what he wants with Ukraine if we can do what we want with Iran.  Incentivize Russian trade to the point they change their export habits.  Have the US and Israel allied with Russia and India, neuter Iran, box in the Middle East, and then China is basically isolated.  The future of American foreign policy is in controlling the Pacific, not the Atlantic.  A Russian-American partnership could accomplish that.   

 

I doubt that Trump is going to get the foreign policy stuff done at all, and I suspect that all he's going to get done domestically is reduce corporate taxes and go after trans folks (which won't amount to anything because it won't be backed by Congress.)  He can crow all he wants about the stock market, but that makes little difference on Main Street.  Biden and the Democrats did terrible damage, but I don't see Trump reversing that.  Just holding in place.  Status quo for the next 4 years. 

 

What worries me is what some factions will do to try to mess things up.  Starting a virus, intentionally collapsing the economy, assassination attempts... that sort of thing.  2020-2022 all over again.  What worries me is that folks in flyover country will go back to sleep.  "Trump's in office, all's well with the world."  It simply ain't so.  If people aren't paying attention and lighting a fire under the feet of their legislators, this small opportunity will be totally wasted.

 

 

[GR]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Actually, no I'm not scared.  I feel like we've mostly gotten a 4-year reprieve.  The past four years were what scared the crap outta me.  No, I'm not a Trump fan...he's not a true populist, really.  But I definitely agree on tariffs and ending support for Ukraine.  I earnestly desire an America-First foreign policy. 

 

I believe we've done all the wrong things with foreign policy, and we WERE knocking on the door of WWIII but I think that situation could improve soon.  America's #1 threat is China, not Russia.  The priority should be to split up the Chinese-Russian alliance.  If Trump was smart, he'd offer Putin a sweetheart deal - let him do what he wants with Ukraine if we can do what we want with Iran.  Incentivize Russian trade to the point they change their export habits.  Have the US and Israel allied with Russia and India, neuter Iran, box in the Middle East, and then China is basically isolated.  The future of American foreign policy is in controlling the Pacific, not the Atlantic.  A Russian-American partnership could accomplish that.   

 

I doubt that Trump is going to get the foreign policy stuff done at all, and I suspect that all he's going to get done domestically is reduce corporate taxes and go after trans folks (which won't amount to anything because it won't be backed by Congress.)  He can crow all he wants about the stock market, but that makes little difference on Main Street.  Biden and the Democrats did terrible damage, but I don't see Trump reversing that.  Just holding in place.  Status quo for the next 4 years. 

 

What worries me is what some factions will do to try to mess things up.  Starting a virus, intentionally collapsing the economy, assassination attempts... that sort of thing.  2020-2022 all over again.  What worries me is that folks in flyover country will go back to sleep.  "Trump's in office, all's well with the world."  It simply ain't so.  If people aren't paying attention and lighting a fire under the feet of their legislators, this small opportunity will be totally wasted.

 

 

The only thing I want to really comment on is the tariffs. They are a really bad idea and they are going to put people like my family at risk. I probably can't explain it the best, so I'll link a video after, but basically these tariffs will drastically raise prices on a lot of things. Whatever is being tariffed, the price will rise on that here in the United States. Me and my family already struggle enough as it is with inflation and costs...but this'll make it so much worse. 

Here's the video: 

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Let me be clear, the biggest problem I see with America is not picking any single "system" to follow.

 

If we want to be a free, independent, libertarian Republic... then let's do that.  Or if we want to be a globally dominating empire, ok, then let's do that.  If we want to be a socialist paradise (yeah, right) then at least make a credible attempt.  The problem is that we're wallowing in the mediocre globalist middle, neither fish nor fowl.  Maybe some of what Trump represents is an attempt to change that.  Sadly, it is too little, to late, and too corrupt.

[GR]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Let me be clear, the biggest problem I see with America is not picking any single "system" to follow.

 

If we want to be a free, independent, libertarian Republic... then let's do that.  Or if we want to be a globally dominating empire, ok, then let's do that.  If we want to be a socialist paradise (yeah, right) then at least make a credible attempt.  The problem is that we're wallowing in the mediocre globalist middle, neither fish nor fowl.  Maybe some of what Trump represents is an attempt to change that.  Sadly, it is too little, to late, and too corrupt.

Trump has chosen one thing to lead us toward...fascism. 

Honestly I'd love a socialist paradise but I know we aren't getting that one any time soon. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, GR said:

The only thing I want to really comment on is the tariffs. They are a really bad idea and they are going to put people like my family at risk. I probably can't explain it the best, so I'll link a video after, but basically these tariffs will drastically raise prices on a lot of things. Whatever is being tariffed, the price will rise on that here in the United States. Me and my family already struggle enough as it is with inflation and costs...but this'll make it so much worse.

 

It will make it worse, temporarily.  The supposedly "free" trade we've been having for decades acts like a drug on the economy.  Transitioning to tariffs will cause a painful withdrawal period.  And I don't think that politicians are being honest and up-front about that reality.

 

However, just like getting off drugs, the gain comes in the long term.  Tariffs are the traditional way the US federal government was meant to support itself.  As tariffs fell out of use, taxes increased.  It was controversial in the 18th and 19th centuries, and is still controversial today.  

[GR]

Also the video may or may not start a minute in for some reason- idk why ;-;

[GR]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

It will make it worse, temporarily.  The supposedly "free" trade we've been having for decades acts like a drug on the economy.  Transitioning to tariffs will cause a painful withdrawal period.  And I don't think that politicians are being honest and up-front about that reality.

 

However, just like getting off drugs, the gain comes in the long term.  Tariffs are the traditional way the US federal government was meant to support itself.  As tariffs fell out of use, taxes increased.  It was controversial in the 18th and 19th centuries, and is still controversial today.  

Ehhhh- I don't know about that, especially with how aggressive Trump's tariff plan is...it may stay around longer. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, GR said:

Ehhhh- I don't know about that, especially with how aggressive Trump's tariff plan is...it may stay around longer. 

 

Depends on how you definite short vs. long term.  The problem the Republicans will face is that it is that the benefits are unlikely to be fully revealed in 2 years or even 4.  People expecting a magic turnaround will be disappointed.  We'll probably have more Democrats in 4 years because people will think that we tried it and it failed.  People don't have the willpower to stick with it long enough.  It would take a new currency backed by physical assets, prohibition of many profitable trading methods that people take for granted, and intense controls that most people won't approve of.  You can't fix over a century's worth of damage in a single term.  Trump's ego is huge, so he won't admit that.  We'd really need 20 years without Democrats to make it happen, or even better would be complete dissolution of both major parties. 

 

Personally, I believe that the 50-state version of the USA is no longer politically, economically, or militarily viable. 

[MaeBe]

I think the people that are in favor of tariffs are either very stupid or are in a position to profit off them or ignore it: people in political power, great wealth, or that live outside of society such as in militarized fiefdoms will see tariffs as excellent for them. There may even be people in those groups that will foment this negative pressure on Americans because it serves them.

 

• The wealthy will use the downward pressure on wages and increased cost of living to further their own greed, expanding their empires with a cheap/indentured workforce.
• The politically powerful will use a disaffected population to implement greater controls, remove education and access to information to solidify a pliable voting population (already there, the South, but hey...)--that is if elections are allowed to exist anymore.
• Those off the grid may want to see American society devolve into domestic conflict; they're armed and quite happy living in isolation--militias sure do love the idea of a post-America America. No doubt they'll think they're prophetic even though they had their hand in creating it.

Look at history and high tariffs, they didn't fix any problems, they have created bigger ones. Problems that were later fixed by dismantling the tariffs or by going to war:

Quote

Unemployment was 8% in 1930 when the Smoot–Hawley Act was passed but the new law failed to lower it. The rate jumped to 16% in 1931 and 25% in 1932–1933.^[27] There is some contention about whether this can necessarily be attributed to the tariff.^[28][29] It was only during World War II, when "the American economy expanded at an unprecedented rate",^[30] that unemployment fell below 1930s levels.

 

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

We'd really need 20 years without Democrats to make it happen, or even better would be complete dissolution of both major parties. 

Republicans have had their shot and have showed they don't want smaller government. They want bigger government for programs they want. Sure they'll slash Departments, like Education and Environment, but they'll create new ones like DOGE (which will just make rich people richer) and increase spending for other things they love. Like keeping women in marriages and pregnant, hunting down women who try to hide their cycles or try to get abortions; expanding the school to prison pipeline by implementing prejudicial laws to keep poor, BIPOC, and queer people as indentured workers in prison; and let's not forget building a war machine for annexing sovereign nations.

 

I still want to see how Americans have suffered under democratic governments where it was actually the Dem policies that caused the problem. We can trace a lot of issues back to Reagan, heck Nixon cancelled the beloved "gold standard". Bush went to war with Iraq and created ISIS, his boy went back and got us stuck there for nearly 20 years. Trump's reign was marked by COVID and his mishandling of it, foreign grift through private channels, and a trade war with China that ended up a costly damp squib. I guess he built that wall...oh wait...

 

So this leads us where? Because you can't see America working through progressive government and egalitarian living? This bias towards decentralized anarchy results in what? A 1700s-style agrarian republic, but this time with a State religion? I guess there are people that really want to go through everything all over again...

[Ivy]

Well, I guess things could be worse…

[awkward-yet-sweet]

@MaeBe As for what happened with our currency, it was Democrats who ruined it.  Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913.  Roosevelt seized privately held gold and removed gold coins from circulation, and that ban wasn't removed until the Ford administration.  JFK and LBJ took away silver from our coinage.  Nixon simply put the final nail in the coffin.

 

It wasn't tariffs that created (or worsened) the Great Depression, it was the stock market.  Which is entirely an urban and often foreign-focused phenomenon.  I looked up a list of recessions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States

 

What are the usual causes?  Speculation, foreign trade issues, banking system collapses, and stock market collapses.  In other words, "rich people games." There were, of course, a few that were related to sudden changes in transportation and the effects of war...those are kind of unavoidable.  Interestingly, you know who didn't like tariffs back in the old days?  Southern slaveowners.  Because their system relied on cheap labor to sell cash crops to foreign markets.  In our modern day, we've outsourced the slavery to poor nations, and we're importing what is produced by slave labor. 

 

Tariffs are a way to fund government without income taxes, and a way to protect domestic industrial production.  They are also useful for national security, because it is easier to make war or withdraw from alliances when we don't rely on other nations for essential supplies.  That might be a problem in a smaller nation, but not in a nation as vast as the USA.

 

Will Trump stop the rich people games?  Of course not.  That's a huge problem I have with him and all political elites.  There's an entire class of folks that basically needs to be told to do something else.  Under our current system, we'll never see the benefits of anything that manages to get started during his term.  Mediocrity at best, with no follow-through.  The swing voters are fickle and tire quickly. 

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

So this leads us where? Because you can't see America working through progressive government and egalitarian living? This bias towards decentralized anarchy results in what? A 1700s-style agrarian republic, but this time with a State religion?

 

If what has happened economically is "progressive" and "egalitarian," I'll pass.  Just look at our quality of life in the last 50 years - what your wages would have bought in 1970 vs now.  Can a factory worker buy a new car without debt?  Can they afford a decent home and pay it off in 20 years?  Is there beef on the dinner table?  Heck, I've noticed pizza prices.  When I was in high school, you could get a large Dominos feast pizza for 1.5 hours of low-wage retail work.  15 to 20 years later, that same pizza now costs nearly 2.5 hours of work from the same job, even though wages have nominally risen.  If that's the result of a progressive, egalitarian, democratic, etc. society, the results don't live up to the hype. 

 

Actually, a lot of folks aren't even using the same definition of "egalitarian" anymore.  There's "equity" - the sameness of outcome, regardless of input.  Which is a rather different concept from "equality."  As you may guess, I am in favor of the latter, but not the former....the former reminds me of the premise of communism "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."  It was a great experiment for many nations, and it simply didn't work.  But I guess there are people who really want to go through all of that again...

 

Common sense tells me that the same principles that keep a family financially stable will also work for a nation:  Don't spend more than you make.  Trust only tangible assets.  Produce something.  Secure your own property.  Raise the next generation to value your heritage. Conversely, the same negligence that ruins a family will also ruin a nation...we're watching the fruits of that right now.   

 

And yeah, a 1700s-format agrarian republic, free (as much as possible) from the influence of other nations and composed of a loose alliance of communities protected by a very vigorous militia composed of the general population - that's basically ideal.