Keeping Up Appearances

[Sally Stone]

With the current anti-trans climate the way it is, it is probably prudent not to call too much attention to ourselves. But where do we draw the line between freedom of self-expression and common sense?

 

Take for example, a recent incident that occurred here in Reno.

 

An acquaintance of mine was getting care at the Reno VA hospital. While he was waiting to be seen, a trans woman walked out of the examining room area and transited the waiting area. My acquaintance's wife took a picture of the trans woman as she walked by. Of course, I don't condone anyone taking pictures of another without that person's consent, especially when the person stealing the image decides to share it. That's just not cool, and when I got the image forwarded to me, I just deleted it. Despite the photographic misdeed, the trans woman's outfit was already burned into my visual cortex.

 

I believe the message attached to the picture said something like: “Nothing like keeping a low profile.”

 

And while I would never feel it was my place to openly criticize another for their wardrobe choice, I couldn't help wondering about the trans woman's fashion choices. She was wearing an extremely short, curve hugging, dress, fishnet stockings attached to garters, with the garters on full display, and high heel platform shoes.

 

It may not be fair to single this woman out, but her self-expression in this case, is exactly the kind of fodder our community doesn't need while we are being judged so harshly. While my first thought was “what the heck were you thinking wearing that outfit” my second thought was “who am I to judge?” By criticizing her wardrobe choice, wouldn't I be making the same narrow-minded judgments being leveled against the trans community?

 

In my humble opinion this woman's outfit, especially given the venue, reflects poorly on the trans community. That being said, what is more important: the trans community's reputation or this woman's right to self expression? Personally, I think we must champion an individual's right to self expression, even when that self expression makes us uncomfortable.

 

Of course, there is an argument to be made regarding a trans person's responsibility to consider the community's greater good instead of one's own desires, but that's a conversation for another time.

[AnnMarie]

Probably should have dressed more appropriately for an appointment. Do what you want, but I think women need to have a bit of classiness to their dress. It's like young women wearing miniskirts, yes, should be fine, but you if you walk into a truck stop full of truckers, well, it's on you baby, don't say I didn't warn you. 

[tracy_j]

A point to note is that for any woman to dress like that in almost all circumstances it would attract comment.

 

I do feel that some people are their own worst enemies.

 

Tracy

 

[VickySGV]

OK, this is me doing Maid Of Honor work for a Trans wedding two years ago.  I look like the overweight older woman that I am in daily life.  I was actually uncomfortable in the dress, but obliging to the Brides who are family members.

 

https://www.transgenderpulse.com/forums/index.php?/gallery/image/14812-vickyonlyjpg/

 

I guess I am around the Trans / NB community too much to really even think I would have seen the person (who might not have been Trans) there in your clinic the way you describe it.  Yes there is an element of prudence to use about your appearance for safety reasons, maybe that person had been told to wear that outfit to show one of her clinicians, but your appearance does not reflect on me. 

 

I should add that I have lost some weight since then.

[KayC]

@Sally Stone

I have come to the general opinion that it is inappropriate to judge anybody's fashion choices, regardless of how 'inappropriate' they are.  They might not be my choices, but who am I to judge somebody else's?

I have seen many cis-women (at least I assume they are cis-women?) who dress way too risque for the venue/event/appointment, OR in most cases they are just so frumpy and androgenous ... and I wonder?  have they just given up?  But again, it's their choice.

So was it inappripriate because she was Trans? or just because? .... and, I guess I would have to ask "what marked this woman as Transgender?" vs a manly woman?  vs a crossdresser?  I think the only inappropriate behavior in this incident is the woman who passed Judgement and chose to take/share her photo.
 

16 hours ago, VickySGV said:

OK, this is me doing Maid Of Honor work for a Trans wedding two years ago.

You look WONDERFUL, Vicky!!

[KathyLauren]

I have always known that the current crackdown was coming.  So my fashion choices channel my mother: definitely feminine, but conservatively so.  I understand the desire for some trans women to express their new-found feminine energy with extravagant fashions, I do think that, in the current oppressive climate, it draws unwanted negative attention.  My safety is important to me.

 

But the problem with that is not in the clothing choices of the trans women!  The problem is in the judgmental attitudes of the onlookers.  Questionable fashion taste is the norm in our society.  You only have to look at the clientele at our local Walmart to see that.  Mostly, it is accepted.  So why is it okay for customers at a large department store to dress any way they want but not for trans women to do the same?  Because of the judgmental attitudes of the onlookers.

 

So while I would suggest that dressing excessively flamboyantly is not prudent, any criticism should fall on the onlookers who will not let people be, and who want to suppress anything that doesn't fit into the new administration's mould.

[Charlize]

I'm always amazed by fashion?  When i was considerably younger women never wore pants.  If they did they were called slacks and never had pockets.  Now at the market it is rare to see a skirt or dress. One simply blends into the flock.  As i've learned from herding sheep being in the center of the flock is the safest place to be.  

Perhaps the person you saw was a professional or making a statement.  Dressing like that is usually ment catch the male eye, too often with undesirable consequences.  Best saved for nights out clubbing if that's your desire.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

 

[Timi]

 

 

@Nats - Thank you for your thoughtful posts on this topic! I've really enjoyed reading and thinking about this. 

 

This topic compelled me to open and reread the concluding chapter of A Short History of Trans Misogyny by Jules Gill-Peterson. So much to read in that chapter, but here are a few excerpts that resonate with me regarding this discussion of fashion, and of. how I like to view my trans sisters who rock the mini skirts and fishnets::

 

"Trans women are extra. Trans femininity is too much. ... Trans misogyny often demands the suppression of exceptional femininity, whether to protect someone who is imagined to be in danger or simply to put trans women in their place. ... What if trans feminism meant saying yes to being too much, not because everyone should become more feminine, but because a safer world is one in which there is nothing wrong with being extra?

 

Many of the key achievements of liberal feminism, particularly in the West, have relied on minimizing, if not rejecting or trying to transcend, femininity. ... To achieve equality with men, liberal feminism has often claimed that women are the same as men, downplaying their femininity to adapt to the default masculine model of authority and respect. ... The respectability strategy sacrifices femininity to curry favor with dominant, misogynist ideas of power. Whether or not it succeeds in any of its goals, it always extends the devaluation and hatred of femininity. In that way, it always loses. 

 

Who will be bold enough to reclaim femininity in its most excessive, extra forms? Who will proclaim a post-scarcity feminism that isn't afraid of being too much or wanting too much?"

[Ivy]

Just now, Charlize said:

When i was considerably younger women never wore pants.  If they did they were called slacks and never had pockets.  Now at the market it is rare to see a skirt or dress.

Yeah, that's how I remember it as well.  It was a kinda big deal when my mother wore "slacks."

 

 I think I still carry that with me.  The last time I had "pants" on was a couple years ago when I was wearing some bibs whilst unclogging a grey water line from the house.  I do keep a pair for that kind of thing.  TBH I do have a couple pairs of capris that I never wear.  I got them when I was first out, and nervous about skirts in some places.  I've gotten over that.

 

But when I'm out and about (including appointments at the VA) it's a dress or skirt and top.  But I'm in my mid 70's myself, and favor modest hemlines.  

Don't have any fishnets, but do wear "thigh-highs" (sometimes with garters if they've been around a while)  But with my hemlines, nobody would know that.  Just looks like leggings or something.  It's just my personal preference - I joke about it being my "kink."  In the summer it's bare legs.  (I have an ivy vine tattoo running up one leg which I've been told is "sexy" LOL)

 

Pix I've posted in "what are you wearing" thread are pretty much how I dress most of the time.

 

I do not try to stand out, or draw attention to myself, although I'm often the only woman actually in a dress.

 

On 1/21/2025 at 5:20 PM, Sally Stone said:

extremely short, curve hugging, dress, fishnet stockings attached to garters, with the garters on full display, and high heel platform shoes

I, personally, would not dress this way at the VA.  But that's just me.

[Sally Stone]

43 minutes ago, KathyLauren said:

Questionable fashion taste is the norm in our society.  You only have to look at the clientele at our local Walmart to see that.

This so true, but in the end, fashion choices are personal.  It shouldn't be someone else' business.  My hope (it's a hope not an expectation) is that someday society as a whole will stop dwelling on how we look and instead, focus on what's inside.    

 

Too often we pass judgment with our eyes and don't wait for judgment to come from our hearts.   

[Timi]

Just now, Nats said:

@TimiInteresting - I haven't read the book but it's gone on my list! 

If you want a brief essay/summary/review of the book, look at this:

 

<div class="substack-post-embed"><p lang="en">A Love Letter To The Dolls by Doc Impossible</p><p>The liberatory trans feminism of Jules Gill-Peterson's Mujerísima</p><a data-post-link href="https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/a-love-letter-to-the-dolls">Read on Substack</a></div><script async src="https://substack.com/embedjs/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Timi]

Just now, Timi said:

If you want a brief essay/summary/review of the book, look at this:

Opps the embedded code didn't work - Here's a link:

 

https://open.substack.com/pub/stainedglasswoman/p/a-love-letter-to-the-dolls?r=3bnuwo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

[Ivy]

Just now, Timi said:

Here's a link:

Thanx

I am getting it too.

[Lilis]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

This so true, but in the end, fashion choices are personal.  It shouldn't be someone else' business.

 

I think these judgments often come from internalized societal pressures, personal insecurities, or differing perspectives on what it means to be transgender.

 

Many of us grow up in environments that reinforce rigid gender norms and negative stereotypes, which can lead to internalized ideas that are later projected onto others, whether consciously or unconsciously.

 

Every one transition is a deeply personal and often challenging journey, and when someone struggles with self-acceptance, they might judge others as a way to validate their own identity or choices.

 

Some people may criticize others expressions, medical choices, or social presentation based on their own experiences, but in the end, fashion and self expression are deeply personal.

 

I agree it shouldn't be anyone else's business how someone chooses to present themselves.

 

Unfortunately, exclusionary attitudes still exist, with some believing certain expressions of gender are more 'authentic' than others, and I agree with you that everyone deserves the freedom to express themselves in a way that feels right for them.

[KayC]

10 hours ago, Nats said:

Judgement is part of the human condition

Yes it is, Nats ... but it's also a part of the Human Condition we can choose Not to participate in. 

 

9 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

So while I would suggest that dressing excessively flamboyantly is not prudent, any criticism should fall on the onlookers who will not let people be

^This^ was my point also, Kathy ... Thank you!

 

4 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

in the end, fashion choices are personal.  It shouldn't be someone else' business

And ^this^ ... Thank you also, Sally!

[KathyLauren]

Just now, Nats said:

“Dissatisfied with the impotence of trans-inclusive feminism, which has proven unable to outmaneuver the trans misogyny of gender-critical and far-right anti-trans political movements, [mujerísima] turns to trans Latin America for a different lesson.”

 

Erm, sorry? Let me read that again, slowly …

 

I am sufficiently neurodiverse to understand why that sentence is hard to follow.  I had to read it really slowly.     On the other hand I suspect I write like that too, because, again, being a bit neurodiverse, I want to get the exact nuance of my thought down on paper.

 

Yes, communication is hard.

[Ivy]

Just now, KathyLauren said:

Yes, communication is hard

The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred.

[Timi]

@Nats - thank you so much for sharing! I do not understand much about neurodivergence. I'm glad you had the opportunity to preview the author's style before committing to buy the book!

 

@KathyLauren and @Nats - from the preface, here is the author explaining her writing style;

 

"It feels immensely difficult to risk being wrong today, especially in public, and I am not immune. I've found myself saying less outside the labored prose of my research and scholarship, which builds in a million opportunities to choose my words carefully. (This book is one example of that, to be sure). The debate club of what remains of the public sphere is a surreal nightmare."

 

I pretty much avoid social media because of that "nightmare" and to try to take care of my mental health. 

 

[KathyLauren]

Just now, Ivy said:

The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred.

 

Ha ha!  Indeed! 

 

Just now, Timi said:

take care of my mental health

 

That is so important.

[Sally Stone]

I know neurodivergence is a term that is supposed to describe brain differences from conditions such as dyslexia, ADHD, autism, high IQ, etc., but aren't we all a little neurodiverse?  I like to think that each of us has a brain that is at least a little different from everyone else.  It's what makes us individually unique.

 

And wow, this thread really took a 90 degree turn, didn't it?  I'm not being critical, mind you.  It's just that it fascinates me how the topic of one thread so often leads to other topics.

[Sally Stone]

Just now, Nats said:

Yes, sorry, I'm probably one of the ones that hijacked it!

No apologies necessary, Nats.  I love the fact that our threads can expand to other topics.  It keeps them interesting and fresh.

[Ivy]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

I like to think that each of us has a brain that is at least a little different from everyone else. 

Very true

[Lilis]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

but aren't we all a little neurodiverse?  I like to think that each of us has a brain that is at least a little different from everyone else.  It's what makes us individually unique.

[MaeBe]

On 1/21/2025 at 2:20 PM, Sally Stone said:

By criticizing her wardrobe choice, wouldn't I be making the same narrow-minded judgments being leveled against the trans community?

Yes, this. The projected social punishment has made people reconsider their agency and autonomy. It's the subtle change in public attitude that allows the orange regime's hate to spread. From "what was she thinking" to "she shouldn't be here" to "what's wrong with him" to...you can imagine the rest.

 

On 1/21/2025 at 2:20 PM, Sally Stone said:

Of course, there is an argument to be made regarding a trans person's responsibility to consider the community's greater good instead of one's own desires, but that's a conversation for another time.

In other words...assimilate or hide to survive. Respectability politics has never done anything but serve those who would otherwise suppress or repress others. "Pick me" transgender assimilation isn't a slippery slope, it's a sheer cliff face.

 

Sometimes you just have to say "eff you" to the face of oppression.

[Centered_Self89]

On 1/23/2025 at 5:43 PM, Nats said:

I am binary, on a personal basis.  I'm on the extreme feminine end of the scale - as far up as the dial goes, then, maybe, a bit more!!  But for me, fishnets and short skirts don't really signal 'femininity', I think there are other signals being sent there, probably varying according to the individual.

This was really well put and a very good point.

 

On 1/23/2025 at 5:43 PM, Nats said:

What I mean, though, is that my femininity is much more vested in my mind, my verbal expression and body language, my behaviour, values and attitudes.

That is very close to how I feel about the subject. The look you like is part of feeling feminine but being feminine is a bit different. Did I understand you correctly?