Text Of Exec Order On Sex & Gender

[Carolyn Marie]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

 

 

This is much worse than I ever imagined.  It could effect every aspect of our lives if it is all enacted and not blocked by the courts.  The lawyers are going to be very busy in the coming months and years.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

It gets sillier as it goes along.  To do what this is aiming for will take more years than he has of life expectancy involving death by "natural causes".  My crystal ball is showing a lot of rich lawyers and poor taxpayers coming from this.

 

[Ivy]

What can I say?   This is pretty much what I was afraid of.  

I don't understand why so many people convinced themselves that this wouldn't really happen.  It was in Project 2025 all along.

I don't expect any "mercy" from this administration, no matter how many bishops plead for it.

The object is our eradication, just like they've been saying all along - while their crowds cheered.

The media and Democrats are caving as well.

[TaniaLC]

I don't think I've ever cried so much in my life as I have this past few days.  

[AnnMarie]

Well, I told my gay son years ago this was going to happen. The ramrod approach of gay and trans issues was going to create a backlash. I told him that, for instance, having gay romance/kissing/etc., in too many TV shows was going to turn some people off. I told him that a better approach would be to sloooowly introduce these concepts to the general public as a lot of the public back then was still viewing gay and trans people as freaks or sexual deviants. Instead, they opened the floodgates. Well, if a large percentage of people, uninformed as they are, view us as deviants, of course there is going to be a visceral reaction! The minds of that populace were not ready to accept it. Hence, the backlash! Right or wrong, here we are.

 

I told him a better approach was what the Jews in Hollywood did, have "some" Jewish characters in movies and television, especially after WW2. They attempted to "normalize" Jewish people to Americans. And it's pretty much worked. 

 

And we ramrodded trans people into locker rooms, bathrooms, etc. Taking the position that if someone says they are trans, they get access. So, if a guy says he is trans, he can walk naked into the women's shower room while they are changing/showering. There is no check on this guy's claim in a lot of places, they take his word. And the women are subjected to seeing a naked male body and the male-bodied person is viewing their bodies. Well, hence, the backlash! This ramrodding is what they call the "gay/trans agenda".

 

So, to sum up, instead of introducing these concepts in a genial way, backed by loads of public discussion about the science, and humanizing gays and trans, we ramrodded any gay/trans content onto the masses, leading to our own demise. 

 

There is no easy solution. I recommend going back to square one and approaching the conversation and introduction of gay and trans topics with a more demure method and starting heavy public discussion about the science to back it 

 

Some of you may disagree. But, WE have given them the ammunition they need to do this. Taking people at their word that they are trans, even liars, and allowing them access. Some trans who have superior physical attributes dominating and/or injuring genetic women (admit it, no biological 75 year old woman is gonna kick Caitlyn Jenner's hinie), some people waving male appendages at parades, public sexual demonstrations at festivals, etc. Some of you are angry at me now. That's okay. But, ask yourselves, these things happen and you expect mainstream society to accept it, or you think who cares what they think we're doing it anyway so eff them?  Well, when you are then  shunted into a marginalized part of society, and kept there, I hope that works for you, because that's where you are now, and you will probably stay there. 

 

Where are the public discussions of the biology of trans people? Where are the stories about the struggles and tribulations of trans people? Where are the interviews? The documentaries? So that people can learn and see that we are just people too.  No, we have the ramrod approach on one side and visceral hate on the other. Each feeds the other and the cycle continues. 

[Ivy]

 

Just now, AnnMarie said:

we ramrodded trans people into locker rooms, bathrooms, etc.

Fortunately, I deleted my reply to this.

[VickySGV]

@AnnMarie As an active member of the Trans Community for nearly 20 years here in So. Cal. I have direct knowledge of only two actual examples of what you describe, and in both of those examples the person was NOT Trans.  One was a registered sex offender who was quickly arrested on violations of their parole.  The second example was best described as an agent provocateur who was literally a card carrying member of an organization whose mission is to defame us and that person was tried, found NOT Trans, and convicted on normal trespassing and sexual annoyance charges.

 

Another incident down in your personal area involved a MANY years post GCS Trans woman activist in a welcoming swimming environment, who was shouted out by a person who came into the area ONLY for the purpose of creating trouble and to see a Trans person IRL.  It was proven that the "witness" to the exhibitionism charge did not see what they claimed to have seen. (Medical records)   In a nutshell, they were lying and not because the Trans object of their fantasy in any way "ramrodded" their presence into the liar's life.

Our status in LAW has been the work of long and considerable debate, research, and eventually consensus in the rightness of the bills that give us public status.  I have met and spoken with legislators involved in those things and in public records of their debate can see how it went that way.  Certainly those who are immovable in their sensitivities and moralizations will not see the amount of work and reason of people of good will as long as they live but the work has been done.  I am old enough that I cannot wait for another person's life to end by natural causes to give up my activism.

[AnnMarie]

Well, I think you miss my point a bit, I should have said "perceived ramroddedness". That's the label we have now. 

[TaniaLC]

Just now, VickySGV said:

I am old enough that I cannot wait for another person's life to end by natural causes to give up my activism.

I like that. In my case I would say I'm too old to wait for another person's life to end by natural causes to give up my transition.

 

Regardless of what orange man does or how many executive orders he signs, this is happening. I will be the person I've always felt deep down that I truly am. That said, I'm not even on HRT yet so I present cis, I know I'm a trans woman, but I would never go into a woman's restroom at this stage in my transition... heck, I don't even know if I'll ever pass to a point where I'd feel comfortable doing that. When I look at myself in the mirror, I think it'd be a tough sell but time and treatment will tell, but even then... I still might hold it until I can find a unisex restroom or make my way home.

 

Also, why aren't all restrooms unisex? I've been to Europe, almost all of them are there. It's so simple, get rid of the urinals and just put stalls everywhere. When I was in Germany, I was like yeah, this is how to do a restroom, stalls had doors, real doors that came down to the floor that closed with no gaps that creepy people can peak through. In a situation like that it doesn't matter who's in the stall next to you or who's waiting in line, it's just a restroom... 

 

Anyway, I kinda digressed there. My point is I've never felt that I've had trans people forced upon me, ever, and I'm bleeping OLD yo. I also don't think this EO is really a result of others feeling like that as much as it is a result of this inertia on the right to go further and further right, on all things. Be it trans issues, gay marriage, abortion, religion, immigration, economics, geopolitics, everything, the right has become more and more bigoted, transphobic, homophobic, xenophobic, isolationist and I'll say it, racist over the last decade and a half and it's sad. As to why? Well, I hate to say it but I think it all starts with the racism. This country is at a tipping point where we will soon become a white minority country and the creaky old men in DC and their creaky old constitutes around the country are freaking the eff out. They're scared, they feel like this country belongs to them and them only, so yeah, that fear and hatred grows and expands so here we are. Start hating one group, start blaming one group for your personal misfortune and sooner or later you'll start adding more. Give it enough time on this path and we'll be back to the French, Irish, and Italians hating each other so much they'll try and pass laws to limit immigration from each other's country which has happened before.

 

IDK, that's my hypothesis on how we got here. I could be wrong, probably am.        

 

 

 

[Ivy]

What is happening to us is only one part of what is going on here.  We are watching a right-wing takeover of the government.  All of this has been thought out and planned for the last few years, probably longer.  They even wrote a book about it, going into detail of how to implement it.  They have a blueprint to follow, and they will.

 

Even any mention of us is being removed from government documents.  Books removed from libraries, teachers forbidden to even mention us.  Why?  

 

I'm going to stop now because this is not only a trans issue.  We're mostly collateral damage for these people.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

On 1/22/2025 at 6:43 PM, Carolyn Marie said:

 It could effect every aspect of our lives

 

Really? I read the text and it ain't the Nuremberg laws. The bathroom thing is inconvenient, but solvable in the long term by creating individual, omnigender spaces...which should have been done long ago.

 

Other than that, if we just stay away from federal government stuff, maybe not much of a problem? 

[TaniaLC]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Really? I read the text and it ain't the Nuremberg laws. The bathroom thing is inconvenient, but solvable in the long term by creating individual, omnigender spaces...which should have been done long ago.

 

Other than that, if we just stay away from federal government stuff, maybe not much of a problem? 

I wish I could find the youtube video where someone broke this down, related to an article (I really should start keeping track of sources) but TLDR... This sets the stage for even more draconian laws, bills, at the federal and state level to basically make us illegal. I don't know how long you've been on this planet but I remember when being gay was literally against the law and this was WAY before trans people really came out, we were there, but hon, we were hiding so deep in the closet we not only found the christmas presents but we opened them and were disappointed when we saw that we didn't get the gender confirming presents we asked santa for. 

[TaniaLC]

Just now, Troi said:

I wish I could find the youtube video where someone broke this down, related to an article (I really should start keeping track of sources) but TLDR... This sets the stage for even more draconian laws, bills, at the federal and state level to basically make us illegal. I don't know how long you've been on this planet but I remember when being gay was literally against the law and this was WAY before trans people really came out, we were there, but hon, we were hiding so deep in the closet we not only found the christmas presents but we opened them and were disappointed when we saw that we didn't get the gender confirming presents we asked santa for. 

Replying to my own post again, ugh.. I hate doing this, but basically, what I'm saying here is this sets a precedent to where they move the needle back to a time when it's better to be closeted and never live your truth in real life or be you, as you, out in the world. The fear is the point. They want us to be afraid, to be ashamed, marginalized, and "othered" to the point that we're pariah, persona non grata. I, personally cannot, and will not accept that. I've spent over five decades in that headspace and what did it get me? A heavy drinking habit, depression, gender and body dysmorphia, anger, trashing my whole life several times, divorce, and worst of all, loneliness.

 

Denying that trans people exist is going to get people killed. I've never been a self harm person, can't do it, just not in my nature, but for those who may have that proclivity, what this EO will do is tragically push some of them over that cliff. I can't stand to see another human harmed and all this EO does is harm or instigate harm. This is why I cried for the better part of this week when that orange a** signed that order. 

 

My heart breaks day after day after day... sometimes I do wish I were more cis make brained and didn't care so much but this is just who I am.     

[Birdie]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Other than that, if we just stay away from federal government stuff, maybe not much of a problem? 

If Texas is an example of how fast things can change on a state level, we will see state laws changing rapidly to match the order. 

 

Texas local ordinances and state laws were changing before he even was elected. 

 

Legally I am female as my birth certificate was amended without a court order based off of medical records and affidavits from people that knew me. As for Social Security, that was also changed after a hard fight (the Texas SS employees really fought hard against that).

 

The wording of the document makes no mention of anything being retroactive, but does mention creation of further documentation and plans to be presented. I'm just hoping everything doesn't go retroactive reversing what I achieved at Social Security. As for my birth certificate, I already have that in hand issued by my state of birth so that cannot be reversed. Social Security finally scanned my amended birth certificate into the system.

 

Texas DMV will not allow my amended birth certificate into the system thereby changing my gender, and I had high hopes of moving to Oregon where it is allowed. I essentially cannot change my gender on my Texas driver's license, but at present Oregon does allow so. Hopefully that will remain in effect in Oregon until I get there.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, Troi said:

I don't know how long you've been on this planet but I remember when being gay was literally against the law and this was WAY before trans people really came out, we were there, but hon, we were hiding so deep in the closet we not only found the christmas presents but we opened them and were disappointed when we saw that we didn't get the gender confirming presents we asked santa for. 

 

I'm in my mid 30s, so I mostly remember the late 90s and early 2000s. 

 

1 hour ago, Troi said:

this sets a precedent to where they move the needle back to a time when it's better to be closeted and never live your truth in real life or be you, as you, out in the world. The fear is the point. 

My experience with this is threefold:

 

First, the biggest opposition to my identity was my parents.  I didn't face it from the general population.  It ain't the 1950s anymore, and a new law or policy isn't going to reverse a social reality.  Sometimes we compare current social trends to a certain unmentionable German 1930s Charlie Chaplin tribute show, but they didn't create antisemitism.  They used what was already present and available and allowed people to act on what they already wanted to do. I live in deep red Trump country, and overall I don't find anti-LGBTQ sentiment. A law isn't going to create it from scratch.  

 

Second, law targeting personal behavior is often irrelevant if people choose not to obey it. Lie, hide, work around it, or simply do what we want when they're not looking. That's why Prohibition failed in the 30s. Its why marijuana is legal in even conservative states while remaining federally illegal. Its why gun laws don't work, tax evaders still cheat the system, etc...  In my area I've watched the growth of an alternative society. People are tired of being pushed around by the feds and the state. Local culture and local power can successfully fight the system.  And apart from that, apathy and laziness work also.  Its hard to enforce a widely disregarded law.  Easier to take a paycheck and do nothing. 

 

Third, life ain't so great (governmentally) for people like me.  Bathrooms don't even make it on my Top Ten list of issues.  For example, my marriage is multi-partner, and technically banned under Federal law. Equality? Yeah, right.  Probably not in this century.  My faith community has faced opposition.  Getting medical insurance can be tricky.  The feds actively persecute rural communities and steal from us.  The state ignores us and even denies aid after disasters, because we don't matter.  I have the life I want because of local culture and local power, not Federal or State blessing.  I definitely experience the fear of being part of a mistreated minority...just not because of my gender.

[CairennTairisiu]

10 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Really? I read the text and it ain't the Nuremberg laws. The bathroom thing is inconvenient, but solvable in the long term by creating individual, omnigender spaces...which should have been done long ago.

 

Other than that, if we just stay away from federal government stuff, maybe not much of a problem? 

Every Republican controlled state will use this as a basis for enacting further local restrictions against transgender people. Texas wants to pass laws making it a crime to wear clothes "not associated with the sex on your original birth certificate".

This harkens back to anti-trans laws that would get trans women arrested for wearing dresses or skirts. You can expect those laws to have jail time or prison time associated with them. Once in prison, expect to be forcibly detransitioned, like Florida is doing - NO HRT, no feminine clothing, openly mocked by prison staff, openly groped by prison staff who will mock your boobs, openly inviting other prisoners to sexually assault you. That is what is happening in Florida prisons right now today.

 

Expect this type of behavior to elevate to traffic stops once they force driver's licenses to show sex of original birth certificate. Watch Trump and RFK do what they promised which is to attack the entire medical establishment providing HRT.

If you think the Trump administration is not coming for you, you are blind.

unhealthy politics came first for trans people in Germany. Now these modern unhealthy politics are coming first for trans people again.

[CairennTairisiu]

Note. It seems a certain word got auto-changed in the prior message. I guess folks on this forum do not want to talk about actual facts because a certain political movement IS what the GOP is today, down to the stiff arm salutes.

[KathyLauren]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

Note. It seems a certain word got auto-changed in the prior message. I guess folks on this forum do not want to talk about actual facts because a certain political movement IS what the GOP is today, down to the stiff arm salutes.

 

It's okay.  We all know what the censored words mean.  Keeping the original word off the forum lowers our visibility to the wrong kind of viewers on search engines.

[VickySGV]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

I guess folks on this forum do not want to talk about actual facts because a certain political movement

 

The short word got to be every other word in one former member's postings is why the filter was updated.  As @KathyLauren said, the rest of us know and appreciate the political significance of the replacement.  There is no denial of the phenomena or the intentions of a goodly segment of our current political landscape among our members, but we also have foreign members in a country where it is worse than here in the U.S. at the minute.

[Ivy]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

Texas wants to pass laws making it a crime to wear clothes "not associated with the sex on your original birth certificate".

I've been expecting this, but haven't heard of it actually happening yet.  Is this an actual bill?

I haven't worn pants in a few years, and have no desire to start.

[Ivy]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

That is what is happening in Florida prisons right now today.

Yeah, I've read about this.  They also cut off your hair.

[Davie]

On 1/22/2025 at 6:07 AM, VickySGV said:

t gets sillier as it goes along.  To do what this is aiming for will take more years than he has of life expectancy involving death by "natural causes".  My crystal ball is showing a lot of rich lawyers and poor taxpayers coming from this.

"IT'S NOT ABOUT BATHROOMS AS IT WAS NEVER ABOUT WATER FOUNTAINS."

[CairennTairisiu]

1 hour ago, Ivy said:

I've been expecting this, but haven't heard of it actually happening yet.  Is this an actual bill?

I haven't worn pants in a few years, and have no desire to start.

Not an actual bill this session but there was one two years ago. It got defeated. No idea how enabled the transphobes think they are now though and it's an odd number year so the Texas legislature is back in session and Abbott will be making increasingly sillier demands again just like last time.

 

[VickySGV]

4 hours ago, CairennTairisiu said:

Texas wants to pass laws making it a crime to wear clothes "not associated with the sex on your original birth certificate".

 

They need to read a little bit of California's history on that one to be sure it is worth it.  In Los Angeles there was a municipal ordinance about that same thing. (Drag entertainers had to have male clothing on under their costumes including button shirt and neck tie) The city law resulted in a horrendously expensive trial in the then Municipal Courts back in the 1970's and ended up with a totally hung up jury on every one of the counts presented against the 14 defendants 10 counts apiece and a few more for individuals.  The cost was so great that the City told the police and city attorney to NEVER AGAIN bring any of those cases to court, and several years later the city council repealed the laws in a sweep of other rather goofy one still on the books. I was a Deputy Court Clerk at the time and visited the courtroom on my breaks over the 4 MONTHS the trial took.  It was hilarious.

[AllieJ]

I think I can understand what AnnMarie is getting at. Instead of winning the hearts and minds of the masses, we have lobbied for laws to include us in society. This seems like a recipe for backlash. But to be plain, there is little evidence that being trans is anything but a mental disorder (that being the only formal diagnosis available) so should the concept of 'Gender Ideology' so often quoted by the conservatives surprise us? 

 

Though there is plenty of science to support being trans as a biological condition, none of it has been researched enough to make it to formal diagnosis, and any time it is raised in the Trans community, such diagnosis is feared and rejected. Though the conservatives are basically evil, we have simply not done enough to prevent what is happening. 

 

Every concept put forward in bills and orders by this government needs to be challenged, and we need to recognise that we need to push for more research to give us the formal diagnostics to prevent what is happening now. Once we have that, we will have something to start winning the hearts and minds. Sure, they're will be a small percentage of the population who will never accept, but there are enough people who have never really thought much about transgender, and have been swayed by whatever has been put forward, and that wasn't affirming our existence. 

 

You need to start looking at the strategies which will help us in 4 years, and get them moving quickly, as that time will go all too quickly. Don't think that Trump is only affecting the US as governments around the world are looking to adopt his strategies. In Australia we will have a Federal election in May, and the man who would possibly be Deputy Prime Minister, David Littleproud, advised his party that they should 'lean into' Trumps strategies, including questioning Gender laws. 

 

Hugs,

 

Allie