NPR article on term "gender ideology"

[Carolyn Marie]

Just now, Timi said:

Moderators, please delete the last two paragraphs beginning with "Which is what drives me crazy ..." from my post.

 

 

Done

[April Marie]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

Audrey, I agree.  The way we stand up for ourselves is try to help people understand us.  It's a challenge for us though because our voices tend to get drowned out by the bullies and the loud mouths.  I think we need to be a chorus for our song to be heard.  

Amen to that, Sally!!!

[Birdie]

New policies were enacted at the day-centre making birth certificates "not an accepted form of identification", Texas identification cards are the only accepted forms now. All medical records, addressing of individuals, gender, and all other aspects of their care shall be governed by what is stated on their Texas ID.
That and another rules have been recently added to be stacked up against people like me. It's quite frustrating times at the moment both at home and out and about.

[Carolyn Marie]

One of the problems we've been stuck with for forever is the U.S. (and I think also the U.K.) medical system, and the need to code everything to allow for insurance payments.  Of course, those trans folk who don't medically transition don't have to worry over this.  As long as the code for "disorder" exists and is used, we will have that word hanging over our heads, leading cis folk to assume we are "disordered" either medically or psychologically or both.

 

A disorder is defined thus: "Disorder" typically refers to disrupting normal physical or mental functions. It often implies a disturbance in the regular functioning of a part of the body or mind."

 

Whereas "condition" is defined as: "a set of signs, symptoms, and tests used to determine the diagnosis of a person. Diagnostic criteria may be broad to accurately identify as many people with the condition as possible if the signs and symptoms of a disease, or symptom or progression severity, varies from person to person."

 

This would seem to fit our needs much better, and would still allow for medical coding to permit treatment of all kinds.  It would reduce the stigma of the word "disorder," and perhaps lead to better understanding.

 

It is not a panacea, but it would be a step in the right direction.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Birdie]

Just now, Carolyn Marie said:

As long as the code for "disorder" exists and is used, we will have that word hanging over our heads,

About a year ago my doctor sent me to a psychiatrist to have her treat me for gender dysphoria. After reading my medical records and seeing that I was intersex she basically stated," you are just trying to find yourself and where you fit into society." She refused to treat me for gender dysphoria.

 

Her Services were later dropped by the day-centre.

 

I have a new psychiatrist that carefully talks about my childhood and growing up with Grandma sewing wedding dresses, knitting and baking wedding cakes. Then the 45 years of boy mode, only to go into all the sewing and knitting projects I have now. We talked about dress and hairstyles and everything in between. But she is very careful not to mention gender dysphoria and only addresses my other concerns. Against the rules, she does address me as Birdie.

 

Finding friends amongst the foes in Texas is a bit hard. And things are getting harder by the minute.

[Ivy]

Just now, Birdie said:

birth certificates "not an accepted form of identification",

This is insanity.

[Ivy]

Just now, Ivy said:

Just now, Birdie said:

birth certificates "not an accepted form of identification",

This is insanity.

Why don't these people just come clean and admit that they're bigots?  The self-deception is staggering.  They'd probably feel better if they'd just stop the gaslighting BS.

I mean, I can accept that they are.  It's just something we have to live with.

[Birdie]

Just now, Ivy said:

Why don't these people just come clean and admit that they're bigots?  The self-deception is staggering.  They'd probably feel better if they'd just stop the gaslighting BS.

I mean, I can accept that they are.  It's just something we have to live with.

Yes, it's bigotry

[Audrey]

Dear @Birdie, I am dismayed to hear about the latest developments at the day center you are attending. Egregious moments like these will sadly become more common and acceptable if "gender ideology" becomes the basis for policymaking at all levels. I suppose it never occurred to the center's leadership that there are 49 states other than Texas.

 

About "disorder" vs. "condition" distinction that @Carolyn Marie raised earlier. I wish the health care system could divorce itself from the disease model. I believe part of the intent of DSM-5's "gender dysphoria" replacing DSM-IV's "gender identity disorder" - to address stigma. But since 2013, the vitriol leading to terms like "gender ideology" has increased regardless of what the medical and psychological community has said. I agree that health insurance coverage must be maintained with parity for the treatments we seek. "Gender ideology" seeks to reverse that.

 

All hope is not lost though. The other day I was heartened by a glimmer of hope that my own insurer has moved breast augmentation out of the cosmetic category and into the medically necessary category.

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

@Carolyn Marie Interesting how they are particular about words.  Slimy like lawyers. 

 

I favor an approach based in personal freedom.  Crush the medical establishment completely, and remove any perception of "authority" they have currently.  We, and humans in general, won't be free until the folks in white coats resume the role of paid service providers.  A lot of incumbent politicians, professors, and "experts" of various fields will need to be permanently removed from their positions and told find some sort of productive labor where they aren't acting as enemies of the people. 

 

If it is my car, I get to choose the mechanic, choose what I want to fix, choose any customization that I want done, and if I don't like it the mechanic can take a flying leap and I'll pick a different one.  The mechanic doesn't get to have a say in my choices, what other mechanics I get to see, how I drive my car afterwards, or anything about other aspects of my life.  The only thing a mechanic is allowed to do is tell me what physically is or is not safe or possible with my car, and what services they offer.  The government doesn't have to subsidize my choices with taxpayer funds, and prices for mechanical services are reasonably affordable.  I can have anything I want, if I pay for it.  The same should be true for my body. 

[AllieJ]

I'm back!  Such great discussion while I slept! 
The right has presented us with a gift in basing their oppression around the term "Gender Ideology" in that it does give us a more concise target to argue. Sadly, while some great points have been raised, we still don't have something powerful to take to a debate. 

The APA management admitted part of their reason to place "Gender Dysphoria" in the DSM-5 was to maintain a stream of funding in the US health system, but if the current trend of erasure continues, that funding may disappear. The WHO cleverly re named Transgender as Gender Incongruent, and removed it from their list of mental disorders to be described as medical under Sexual Health as a condition within the normal range of human experience. Trump doesn't like the WHO. Maybe our adherence to DSM-5 is part of our undoing with regard to "Gender Ideology"?

 

We are a varied community, basing our views on science, art, spirituality, and ideals, but Sally made a great point by saying we need to be a chorus if our song is to be heard. We need to decide which arguments would be most effective in debating "Gender Ideology" to convince, not us, but the viewing public. I roughly divide the public into right/conservatives 30%, left Progressives 30% and those in the middle who vote on the price of eggs 35% this totals 95%, and the remaining 5% are LBGTQIA. If we can win support of the left and middle (and maybe half of the LBGTQIA don't understand us) we have 65% of the public on our side, which should be enough to sway political thinking. Our song needs to win this section of the community, and the danger is that if we don't challenge "Gender Ideology" it will become rooted in our society, so there is a lot at stake!

 

"Gender Ideology" is garbage, we know that, so we should be able to debunk it!

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[MaeBe]

Just now, AllieJ said:

"Gender Ideology" is garbage, we know that, so we should be able to debunk it!

 

I think they want us to try to debunk it. When we try, they twist our words, even the most sane, logical, and reasonable response into whatever they like; a trans hysteria defense, if you will.

 

They will just keep repeating their meaningless phrases until they are beaten into the collective consciousness, instilling it into the irrational part of people's brains. A feeling without a definition. A conditioned "ick factor". Once there, it's inextricable without great disruption to the cognitive state. Which is the issue...

 

How do you disrupt one's cognitive state greatly, without involuntary defensive dismissal? There is no one way to do it and it's highly cultural, bound deeply to other beliefs that are in and of themselves irrational. Essentially, what works for one group of people will not work for other people.

 

On the whole, a personal willingness to question and be open to learning is required of the people that need to be "brought along". That is a rare person, but they could be our best advocates.

 

I think we also need to avoid focusing on negatives. Transition saves people's lives, but that's not relatable to a lot of people. Humans are generally terrible at humanity. Could showing folks that "transition made me whole, made me want to help people, made me want to give of myself, allowed me to feel true joy" and prove it with our actions work? Show our existence as leaving a positive mark on society, showing our humanity? Volunteer for food shelves, work with the aging and dying, beseech faith groups for engagement, show humility and grace in the face of resistance. It's sad that this will be slow, too slow for everyone to survive or exist without violence.

 

I do agree that arguing our existence is not the answer. We exist. Without diagnosis, condition, or disorder we exist. So that can't be where we start. We have to start further down the road.

[Lilis]

Just now, MaeBe said:

We exist. Without diagnosis, condition, or disorder we exist.

 

Exactly..... this.

[Lilis]

1 hour ago, AllieJ said:

Gender Ideology" is garbage, we know that, so we should be able to debunk it!

 

 

I think we need to focus on debunking "Gender Ideology," not defending "Gender Identity."

 

What exactly does "Gender Ideology" mean?

 

Different groups define it in contradictory ways, Some claim it means denying biological sex, others claim it means forcing gender roles.

 

This inconsistency shows that "Gender Ideology" is inconsistent on it's own, and this inconsistency proves that it's a political talking point, not a coherent idea, and a product of their imagination.

[Audrey]

14 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I can have anything I want, if I pay for it.  The same should be true for my body. 

 

In theory, I agree with you. This is a basic tenet of a capitalism. However, a problem arises by implying that choosing help for being trans is a voluntary choice, because being trans is a voluntary choice. I am sure the health insurance industry would be more than happy to go back to a time when it had no obligation to cover any aspects of transition. For myself and many in the community, transition would not be possible without insurance support. However, being trans is not a voluntary choice - but what I do about it *is* my choice. If choices are restricted by financial means, then only the privileged few can enjoy the benefits of it. That is problematic because of the well-documented benefits of access to support and transition services.

 

5 hours ago, Lilis said:

What exactly does "Gender Ideology" mean?

 

Different groups define it in contradictory ways, Some claim it means denying biological sex, others claim it means forcing gender roles.

 

This inconsistency shows that "Gender Ideology" is inconsistent on it's own, and this inconsistency proves that it's a political talking point, not a coherent idea, and a product of their imagination.

 

Yes it is definitely a political point more than a scientific one. However, it might be argued that there is inconsistency in our own community too. Trans itself has become an umbrella term covering a range of identities, feelings, and experiences. Even supportive people who are allies of the community can be confused - and for unsupportive people, confusion is a quick step to dismissiveness of "that gender ideology nonsense."

 

We absolutely need a unified message focused on the positive that resonates with enough people to sway the conversation away from "gender ideology." More importantly, we need a platform big enough and a voice loud enough to be sure the message is felt and heard. Celebrities may be the best hope - Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga are both outspoken allies.

 

Speaking of, I really hope someone has the courage to speak up about recent injustices (beyond those against the trans community) at the Super Bowl game today, especially while he-who-must-not-be-named is in attendance. The NFL's decision to remove of "end racism" from the end zones is blatant kowtowing and everyone knows it.

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[Ivy]

Just now, Audrey said:

The NFL's decision to remove of "end racism" from the end zones is blatant kowtowing and everyone knows it.

But, they go along with it.

Of course there is historical precedent for that.

[Lilis]

Just now, Audrey said:

However, a problem arises by implying that choosing help for being trans is a voluntary choice, because being trans is a voluntary choice. I am sure the health insurance industry would be more than happy to go back to a time when it had no obligation to cover any aspects of transition. For myself and many in the community, transition would not be possible without insurance support

 

Yeah, this is a huge issue. I remember those days as an outsider I wasn’t transitioning at the time, but I saw many in the community do whatever it took, for better or worse, to access the care they needed.

 

Just now, Audrey said:

We absolutely need a unified message focused on the positive that resonates with enough people to sway the conversation away from "gender ideology." More importantly, we need a platform big enough and a voice loud enough to be sure the message is felt and heard. Celebrities may be the best hope - Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga are both outspoken allies.

 

Thanks 🫂💗

 

I’m starting to see what you and @AllieJ are getting at, and I’m rethinking my stance. But honestly, this feels like a huge and daunting undertaking.

[rhonda74]

22 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

very right to exist

I traveled to the grocery to buy a few things, when I walked inside, is when I got so many staired downs.

[Birdie]

I went next door to Braums for a few items. The cashier glanced at me and said, "hello ma'am."

 

Just by moving I can have a new start where no one never knew me in boy-mode. 

[AllieJ]

15 hours ago, MaeBe said:

 

I think they want us to try to debunk it. When we try, they twist our words, even the most sane, logical, and reasonable response into whatever they like; a trans hysteria defense, if you will.

 

They will just keep repeating their meaningless phrases until they are beaten into the collective consciousness, instilling it into the irrational part of people's brains. A feeling without a definition. A conditioned "ick factor". Once there, it's inextricable without great disruption to the cognitive state. Which is the issue...

 

How do you disrupt one's cognitive state greatly, without involuntary defensive dismissal? There is no one way to do it and it's highly cultural, bound deeply to other beliefs that are in and of themselves irrational. Essentially, what works for one group of people will not work for other people.

 

On the whole, a personal willingness to question and be open to learning is required of the people that need to be "brought along". That is a rare person, but they could be our best advocates.

 

I think we also need to avoid focusing on negatives. Transition saves people's lives, but that's not relatable to a lot of people. Humans are generally terrible at humanity. Could showing folks that "transition made me whole, made me want to help people, made me want to give of myself, allowed me to feel true joy" and prove it with our actions work? Show our existence as leaving a positive mark on society, showing our humanity? Volunteer for food shelves, work with the aging and dying, beseech faith groups for engagement, show humility and grace in the face of resistance. It's sad that this will be slow, too slow for everyone to survive or exist without violence.

 

I do agree that arguing our existence is not the answer. We exist. Without diagnosis, condition, or disorder we exist. So that can't be where we start. We have to start further down the road.

 

Any argument we produce will be attacked by the right, so we need robust argument(s). How important is this? There has likely already been deaths in our community directly related to the Trump regime. In our zoom a week ago one of our members, who is normally up, was in tears of desperation at what is happening to her and her trans daughter. The fear I see among others who are genuinely worried they may need to seek asylum in another country. Even in my country, Australia, which has been supportive of us, Trumps win has empowered conservatives so we are also under attack, and this weekend there were demonstrations across our nation. Those of us who remember the oppression of the '70's and '80's can see where all this is heading.

 

We know we exist, but the right is pushing a successful campaign that we don't, that we are only a 'Gender Ideology', and it is erasing our official existence. When we no longer exist officially, do you think insurance companies will fund transgender care? We cannot afford not to fight against 'Gender Ideology'. 

 

I agree, we need a champion, or two. But they need robust information to argue for us. Lady Gaga is already saying she supports us, but it isn't making a difference. She needs something to say that will!

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[Timi]

I think this is very instructive guide to consider as we are framing our arguments:

 

https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/getting-the-word-out

 

-Timi

[Audrey]

I will give a one-minute "elevator speech" a try. I am writing in the third person as though to an audience, and using "transgender people" as an umbrella term. Here goes...

 

"Today, we are witnessing an unprecedented and politically motivated attack on transgender people across our country and the world led by Donald Trump and his administration. These attacks seek to erase an entire group of people from existence, using inconsistent arguments called "gender ideology" with no basis in reality. Transgender people are real, and their life experiences are real. They are a diverse group, united by a lifelong struggle between their bodies and their feelings.  Transgender people are born this way, and did not choose to be transgender. Transgender people have always existed, and will always to continue to exist. They are our family, our friends, our colleagues, and our neighbors. They are equally deserving of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not a death sentence of depression, anxiety, abuse, trauma, and suicide. Right now, transgender people need you to speak up and act against the attacks against them, to defend their rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness."

 

Too many big words?

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

5 hours ago, Audrey said:

In theory, I agree with you. This is a basic tenet of a capitalism. However, a problem arises by implying that choosing help for being trans is a voluntary choice, because being trans is a voluntary choice. I am sure the health insurance industry would be more than happy to go back to a time when it had no obligation to cover any aspects of transition. For myself and many in the community, transition would not be possible without insurance support. However, being trans is not a voluntary choice - but what I do about it *is* my choice. If choices are restricted by financial means, then only the privileged few can enjoy the benefits of it. That is problematic because of the well-documented benefits of access to support and transition services.

 

Healthcare costs are high because of the insurance industry.  Back in the 1950s, people could pay for healthcare out-of-pocket.  My husband's grandfather was a carpenter, and was able to pay for surgeries and prescriptions for his kids without insurance. 

 

Want to make everything affordable again?  Make insurance illegal.  All of it.  Health, home, auto, everything.  Classify the entire industry retroactively as a criminal enterprise due to its effects on costs of essential goods and services.  Label each insurance bigwig as an "enemy of the people" and march them off to jail.  Confiscate everything owned by insurance companies for distribution to the taxpayers.  Find every politician, retired or not, that helped the insurance companies dominate the nation, prosecute them for corruption and undue influence, march them off to jail as well. (Here's looking at you, Obama!)  Exchange their mansions for a "vacation" doing manual labor and rediscovering their connection to common working people.  Purge all the bloodsuckers and start over. 

 

Yeah, that part is kind of anti-capitalist and not great for the ideals of liberty.  But sometimes when a society has gone totally off the rails, it takes a revolution to get it back.  Perhaps I've lived with my GF too long, I've absorbed some of her politics.   

[AllieJ]

Just now, Audrey said:

I will give a one-minute "elevator speech" a try. I am writing in the third person as though to an audience, and using "transgender people" as an umbrella term. Here goes...

 

"Today, we are witnessing an unprecedented and politically motivated attack on transgender people across our country and the world led by Donald Trump and his administration. These attacks seek to erase an entire group of people from existence, using inconsistent arguments called "gender ideology" with no basis in reality. Transgender people are real, and their life experiences are real. They are a diverse group, united by a lifelong struggle between their bodies and their feelings.  Transgender people are born this way, and did not choose to be transgender. Transgender people have always existed, and will always to continue to exist. They are our family, our friends, our colleagues, and our neighbors. They are equally deserving of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not a death sentence of depression, anxiety, abuse, trauma, and suicide. Right now, transgender people need you to speak up and act against the attacks against them, to defend their rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness."

 

Too many big words?

 

Love,

~Audrey.

 

A very nice opinion piece. We have been shouting that Trans is real for years, but this is obviously not enough to convince the general public. The right simply say people drift in and out of being trans, and because it is self declared, it is an ideology, and this is easier for the public to accept. We need to give them something solid to back up our existence. Prove that trans people are born this way, prove they have always existed, convince them rather than simply ask for their support! 

 

To do this, we all need to know the why's and wherefores, and be able to present them in a way that will convince others. Be able to answer questions like "why do people become transgender in puberty or in later life?" "if it's all in your head, why isn't it a mental disorder?", "you don't look like a man/woman, why do you believe you are?", and many other challenges. If we can't answer these with strong reasoning, the default reaction will fall back to 'ideology'.

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[MaeBe]

We will get nowhere answering questions and we’ll get nowhere if we need to rely on scant biological hypothesis.

 

Even if there is fundamental proof of a gendered brain, which is ultimately some folx’ holy grail, do we dehumanize everyone in requiring their brains be scanned so their identity can be honored? Even if we have found one sympathetic physical expression of being trans, what is to say that one is the only one or is definitive?

 

Any work to do that will take a while, especially as research is being stopped and funding gutted left and right. What do we do in the mean time? Need we be repressed and oppressed until the day there is a complete medical answer for being trans?

 

No and I think the answer to the question really is: They must answer the questions.

 

Why do they care? What are trans people to you? What, ultimately, is the problem with trans people existing?

 

If their answer is of religious intolerance, who are they to judge? Do they not have a log in their eye as the Bible says? Are they without sin so they are free to hurl stones?

 

If theirs is a worry of propagation of the species, is our planet not overwhelmed as it is? And why are they so concerned that people must have children? Especially a minority of the sum of humanity. And what of trans people that are caring and loving parents of wonderful children?

 

If their concern is glaringly patriarchal, ask them how would they feel about being treated as property as they are treating others; seeking to or asserting control over another’s life is exactly that. How is centering male dominance an actual answer to anything, especially the existence of trans people? It’s “always been this way?” What of matriarchal societies across the globe, what of Viking women who fought along and against men?

 

If they believe trans people are mentally disabled or deficient, what of left handed people? Or black people? Time has proven humanity to be quite fallible over and over again with these “settled issues”. 

Our proof is their lack of a sufficient answer. Treat them as if you are a learning child, “Why? Why? Why?” albeit, in a non-confrontational manner. For at some point they will run out of talking points and they will be left with just another human in front of them.

 

Sadly, in some cases their violence may get the better of them. The fear of that violence may preclude a trans person to ever engage in conversation in the first place. So yes, allies and people of great esteem and power must also vigilantly ask “why?”, too.

 

Because, in the end, who is materially damaged by trans people existing?