NPR article on term "gender ideology"

[Carolyn Marie]

To all of you who are doing such amazing, important work, including: @MaeBe, @Betty K; @Audrey, @Vidanjali, @VickySGV and so many more, thank you from the bottom of my heart for the hard work, the many hours of calls and letter writing, the marches, the letters-to-the-editor, and the public testimony all of you have made to make this a better and safer world for us.  It is often thankless, but oh so necessary, especially these days.  You are all the unsung heroes in my book.     

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

@Carolyn Marieyour neck has been out a country mile into this stuff too.  I am local to you and know it was real.  Keep it up, we have a crew here on the job.

[Betty K]

Thank you @Carolyn Marie, and as Vicky said I’m sure you are working hard too.

 

I don’t know about everyone else, but I feel privileged to have been involved in the response to events here in Australia these past few weeks. It has been exhausting, but *so* much better than feeling helpless. So I’d say one big thing everyone can do is to make contact with others in the community. Make yourself available to help, and then if you have your own ideas other people will be there to help you. Build networks. If nothing else you will gain experience and earn people’s trust. 

[CairennTairisiu]

9 hours ago, Betty K said:

@CairennTairisiu So the San Diego clinic denies some trans kids treatment based on this test, yet some of the kids denied go on to transition later regardless? That is not a successful implementation of the science to me; it’s a cruel and arbitrary denial of treatment for some kids. 
 

Not correct.

The test correctly identifies kids who will always transition.

In the remaining group, further observation and confirmation that their gender identity is "consistent, insistent, and persistent" is required to make a trans diagnosis.

[CairennTairisiu]

9 hours ago, Betty K said:

@CairennTairisiu Maybe you could share links to some of the most compelling research too? You could even start a thread devoted to it. 

I did that 11 years ago when first faced with this question. My "One Stop Trans Brain Research List" was assembled and maintained for a few years but I've not gone back to review all the links. (Some may now be dead, something that happens over time on the internet, sadly, and may get worse with Trump purging actual science papers about us.)

Here is the link I did in 2014:

One Stop Trans Brain Research List

 

Further, it was in 2015 that Professor Daphne Joel, in Israel, had released her study that said no brain was wholly "male or female". Immediately, TERFs seized this to try to destroy the research that had been done to date about transgender brain differences.

However, I personally contacted Dr. Joel and asked her about that. She clarified that nobody's brain was "wholly male or female" but that certain specific organs within the brain could be differentiated by sex, and that, in fact, she intended to look into that question. I never did hear if she found anything else conclusive though.

One More Time: The New Brain Study Does Not Refute Current Neurobiological Models Of Being Transgender

[kat2]

5 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Passing or stealth is probably the best argument for the benefits of access to gender-affirming non-surgical care early in lif

That is not necessarily the case, you can transition in your twenties and still have a stealth existence 

[kat2]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

However, I personally contacted Dr. Joel and asked her about that. She clarified that nobody's brain was "wholly male or female" but that certain specific organs within the brain could be differentiated by sex, and that, in fact, she intended to look into that question. I never did hear if she found anything else conclusive though.

Further research was done and i have posted it in the link above Sex Matters: A Multivariate Pattern Analysis of Sex- and Gender-Related Neuroanatomical Differences in Cis- and Transgender Individuals Using Structural Magnetic Resonance Imaging claims that our brains are individual mosaics of female and male characteristics, thereby rejecting the simplistic idea of a “female” or “male” brain (Maney 2014; Joel et al. 2015). In light of this general rethinking, our findings=======

we can conclude from our analysis that sex has a major effect on GM irrespective of the self-perception of being a woman or a man. https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/30/3/1345/5542405

[Betty K]

Just now, CairennTairisiu said:

Not correct.

The test correctly identifies kids who will always transition.

In the remaining group, further observation and confirmation that their gender identity is "consistent, insistent, and persistent" is required to make a trans diagnosis.

Is there any evidence of this? We would need to consider rates of loss to follow-up, duration for which ex-patients are monitored, the definition of “detransition” used by the clinic. 
 

Also just a semantic thing but I think it’s important: trans is not a diagnosis. 
 

Thank you for the links.

[AllieJ]

Just now, kat2 said:

Further research was done and i have posted it in the link above Sex Matters: A Multivariate Pattern Analysis of Sex- and Gender-Related Neuroanatomical Differences in Cis- and Transgender Individuals Using Structural Magnetic Resonance Imaging claims that our brains are individual mosaics of female and male characteristics, thereby rejecting the simplistic idea of a “female” or “male” brain (Maney 2014; Joel et al. 2015). In light of this general rethinking, our findings=======

we can conclude from our analysis that sex has a major effect on GM irrespective of the self-perception of being a woman or a man. https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/30/3/1345/5542405

 

I read this study, thank you for the link. It's purpose was to look at general areas of brain matter relative volumes, and they did say it didn't look at structural details of smaller organs like the bed nucleus, and their findings didn't disprove previous study findings. 

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, kat2 said:

That is not necessarily the case, you can transition in your twenties and still have a stealth existence 

Of course it is possible. Just not as easy as doing it earlier.

[rhonda74]

14 hours ago, CairennTairisiu said:

my mother was a heavy smoker

My mother sat down with me, as she explained how her pregnancy with me, she didn't know she was pregnant while smoking until afterwards seeing a doctor is when she stopped. My mother might had been the carrier of other things passed along from my grandmother into herself, which might had contributed to me being born intersex, but may not entirely be the only reasons, such as complications during delivery, and what happened to me being delivered.

[Vidanjali]

11 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

Court allyship & solidarity with women's groups & non-TERF (i.e. actual) feminists to help reveal the fact that the war on so-called gender ideology is a war on all progressive gender norms.

 

https://carnegieendowment.org/emissary/2025/02/trump-gender-ideology-global-trend-women-lgbtq-rights?lang=en

 

I mean...

 

https://alabamareflector.com/2025/02/17/that-anti-transgender-bill-is-even-worse-than-you-think/

 

"...[K]eep reading the state’s latest example of gonad-based lawmaking, and you’ll come upon Section 4 of the law. 'Neither the state nor any political subdivision of the state shall be prohibited from establishing separate single-sex spaces or environments for males and females when biology, privacy, safety, or fairness are implicated,' it says. Read that paragraph again. Then read the bill in its entirety. And find me the sentence that limits this command to bathrooms. It’s not there. What is there is 'privacy, safety, or fairness.' Terms the bill neither defines nor qualifies. In attacking transgender Alabamians, Ivey and the Alabama Legislature have opened the door to sex segregation...In this vicious desire to harm a small group of people, we’re allowing governments to separate men and women on the slightest pretext. Transgender Americans have warned us about this for years. They told us these attacks were a prelude to a larger offensive against the LGBTQ community and women. And here we are."

 

[Ivy]

Dress codes are probably on the way next.

I've realized that we are going to be essentially outlaws pretty soon.

[CairennTairisiu]

3 hours ago, kat2 said:

Further research was done and i have posted it in the link above Sex Matters: A Multivariate Pattern Analysis of Sex- and Gender-Related Neuroanatomical Differences in Cis- and Transgender Individuals Using Structural Magnetic Resonance Imaging claims that our brains are individual mosaics of female and male characteristics, thereby rejecting the simplistic idea of a “female” or “male” brain (Maney 2014; Joel et al. 2015). In light of this general rethinking, our findings=======

we can conclude from our analysis that sex has a major effect on GM irrespective of the self-perception of being a woman or a man. https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/30/3/1345/5542405

As AllieJ notes, this neural network was trained to look at entire brains, not at individual specific structures in the brain which have been linked to sexual orientation and gender identity.

 

This sort of analysis has been attempted before to discredit the neurological hypothesis about trans people and it shares the same failing.

 

Yet, as repeated instances of the original Zhou et al., studies have shown, the BSTc is reliably different in most gay and transgender people (and different in different ways so that, for example, gay men are not the same as trans women).

 

All that this study does is confirm that there's no differences on the macro level between, say, trans women's brains and cisgender men's  brains.

 

But the devil is in the details.

[Sally Stone]

Just now, Ivy said:

I've realized that we are going to be essentially outlaws pretty soon.

Ivy, I'm okay with that.  I have always wanted to be a pirate and I think an "outlaw" and a pirate have lots of similarities.  

[Ivy]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

Ivy, I'm okay with that.

I've kinda been on the edge of it most of my life.  But I've mostly managed to stay out of jail… barely.  I've heard it's hard on trans women.

[Betty K]

Sorry to press this point @CairennTairisiu, but *is* there any evidence for your claims about the San Diego hospital? 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

Ivy, I'm okay with that.  I have always wanted to be a pirate and I think an "outlaw" and a pirate have lots of similarities.  

 

I'm certainly fine with it.  I've never had respect for the concept of law, in itself.  Law is really just a collective opinion backed by weapons.  Don't ever be fooled by thinking that law is anything beyond "might makes right."  Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.  And just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.  

 

I subscribe to a standard that is completely outside the standards of the state.  Where that standard and the state's laws agree, I'm happy to cooperate.  Where that standard and the state's laws disagree, then the state becomes irrelevant.  "When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty."  That's why the state should never be granted a monopoly on violence by creating a disarmed population, and its power should be curtailed as much as possible. 

[Ivy]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.  And just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.  

I think you come to a place where you just accept things are like that, and you learn to get by, partly by staying under the radar, and by telling them what they want to hear when you have to.  We're kinda stuck in this world, and most of us just have to make the best of things as they are.

I pay my taxes, but I don't want the county people hassling me.  But if they do, I can't stop them.  Maybe neither of us wants to open that can of worms… yet.  It will be messy.

Apparently our mother put me here for this.  Okay, I might never know exactly why.  But that's how it is.

I need to stop now.

[Lilis]

So, would it be fair to frame it this way?

 

All the medical and scientific research seems to suggest that being transgender means I was born with a handicap. 

 

Meanwhile, @VickySGV argues that focusing on our shared humanness is a more effective approach to advocacy in combating 'gender ideology.'

 

Is that right?

 

How about a well rounded advocacy strategy that might incorporate both? 

 

Leveraging scientific research when necessary while prioritizing human connection and lived experiences to drive cultural acceptance.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Just now, Lilis said:

How about a well rounded advocacy strategy that might incorporate both?

 I certainly believe in that.  Using medical facts to dispel the "its just a choice" mentality and emphasizing common ground is a pretty good two-pronged approach. 

 

In the USA, I'd add in the idea of consistency with the principles of liberty... that ultimately one of the biggest features of a free society is bodily autonomy.  Both major parties in the USA lack consistency in that area, and its something I find baffling.  

[Lilis]

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 I certainly believe in that.  Using medical facts to dispel the "its just a choice"

mentality and emphasizing common ground is a pretty good two-pronged approach. 

 

Awkward-yet-sweet you make a strong point. 

 

Just now, awkward-yet-sweet said:

and its something I find baffling.  

 

Me too, and I think we all are, and it's tiring. My hopes are that future candidates see things as they are from both sides. Not an easy task I know, but something has to give for our own good.

 

[Betty K]

Just now, Lilis said:

Leveraging scientific research when necessary while prioritizing human connection and lived experiences to drive cultural acceptance.

That sounds like a winning formula. I don’t like the word “handicap” to describe transness very much though. 

[Lilis]

Just now, Betty K said:

I don’t like the word “handicap” to describe transness very much though. 

 

Yeah I was iffy about it myself, perhaps a better way to describe it is as a natural variation of human diversity, one that comes with challenges in a society that isn’t always accepting, but not inherently a deficit.

 

Or maybe someone else can come up with a better word.

 

Just now, Betty K said:

That sounds like a winning formula.

 

Thanks ❤️🌹

[CairennTairisiu]

5 hours ago, Betty K said:

Sorry to press this point @CairennTairisiu, but *is* there any evidence for your claims about the San Diego hospital? 

If you want to call me a liar, then just do that.

The hospital was Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. It took me a bit to remember that. I thought I had bookmarked the article that discussed gendered responses to visual and olfactory stimuli and how trans kids respond reliably like the gender they identify as and not as the gender assigned at birth, but I can't find the article. It was published years ago, probably more than 10 years ago now that I think about it.

 

But I don't really care if you believe me or not. And I don't care for your confrontational tone so I won't be responding to further queries from you about this topic.