Back to Being Stealthy? I think not!

[Sally Stone]

For so many years (good times) we have been able to shed the need to be stealthy.  When I first started exploring my trans nature (back in the late 80's) the thought was that to survive in the world as a trans person, you needed stealth.  That worked okay for some, but for most of us full stealth wasn't achievable.  Fortunately, the landscape changed, being trans was accepted, and being stealthy was no longer necessary.  This is when I began to thrive as a trans woman, and actually become proud of it.  I am a proud trans woman, and I will do everything I can to keep a misguided movement from pushing me back into obscurity. 

 

I honestly believe that our community has the strength of will to fight the current challenge to our existence.  I believe this because even when it looks like a concerted government effort is against us, in reality it is a small group of despicable loud mouths making it seem as though the hate is more widespread.  I'm heartened because we have a lot of people fighting back on our behalf.  It may take a while, but decency and acceptance will ultimately prevail.   

[KathyLauren]

Just now, Sally Stone said:

This is when I began to thrive as a trans woman, and actually become proud of it.  I am a proud trans woman, and I will do everything I can to keep a misguided movement from pushing me back into obscurity. 

 

I am with you on that, Sally.  It is such a relief to finally be out that I cannot go back into hiding.  I am accepted wherever I go.  Sometimes, folks don't "clock" me, sometimes they do.  I don't care, because it really makes no difference to how they treat me, which is politely.  In eight years, no one has been nasty to my face.

 

While I worry about what is to come, I am heartened by my country's response to events south of the border.  The anger of Canadians at the threats is palpable, and I can see the annexation threat blowing up in the President's face.  That tells me that my neighbours will not tolerate the social agenda that is trying to wipe us out.

 

By staying "out", and by offering little reminders of who I am, such as by wearing my trans-flag earrings or a rainbow pin, I am telling folks that I appreciate the safety that they give me., and maybe motivate them and others to keep up the good fight.

 

I have to do that, because there is no way they can get me back in the closet or make me go stealth.  I will do whatever it takes to carry on.

[VickySGV]

One of @KathyLauren country (Trans) women who is a professor of Medico / Legal Ethics at Univ. of Ontario has just put out a paper where they analyzed the effects of the old protocols for Social Transition on the current concerns of those who de-transition, or in a new term "Revert" and have found that it was the old cautions and strict regimen that have created a good many of our problems.  It was these actions that led to Stealth being the word of the day.  The fact that for the first years up until the early 2Ks the designers of the Stealth system were all Cis gender and a high proportion were male, all countries sadly were subject to this phenomena so we cannot place political blame on only one place.  These were also the Gate Keeper standard bearers that have been the fear and loathing of today's Trans people. Both the U.S. and Canada have had a share of those "authorities" making tar puddles for us to step in.  

 

Stealth implies perfection, but the Stealth victims I have met admitted that they were going crazy from the attempted perfection.  The stories I hear from them lead me to tears at times. This Gallery Album is 4 years old but probably shows me presenting as I really am.  I am just so used to being me that I no longer care about the perfection.  The two most glam shots in it were with theater make-up on since I had been in a video that I know I linked in here when it came out on U Tube, but today I am wearing an older T-shirt from my Church LGBT organization instead of my Chorus T-shirt. https://www.transgenderpulse.com/forums/index.php?/gallery/album/2533-2021-events-of-note/    

[kat2]

On 3/14/2025 at 11:40 PM, VickySGV said:

Stealth implies perfection, but the Stealth victims I have met admitted that they were going crazy from the attempted perfection

I personally think not! Stealth was more about blending in, there is no such thing as perfection per say, it was more "do not make a noise blend in". I am not defending Trump but, my personal view is that we back in the 1980s transitioned to either male or female (meaning the two sex's. in that context) Today the woke he talks about which i certainly had never heard of up until my partner passed away is binary, none binary, gender fluid, polygender, and of course pro nouns, a whole new cottage industry.

So back in the 1980s we meaning transsexuals were either transitioning from male to female or from female to male, hence the two sex's. The old way worked fine yes it was very tough but there was alot of support at the same time. All the psychiatrists i had were female, and hormones were given for their true intention, that is to blend in, not numbers like today. Same with puberty blockers, i do not recall those being used yet there were many whom had great results without them such as Caroline Cossey.

There is nothing wrong with stealth or blending in, but i personally do question those that need a label? 

 

[Charlize]

   I live and farm in the town where i grew up.  While i may or may not be "clocked" as i move about in the greater world, i am known as the person i am in this relatively small town.  I'm sure many here don't understand  and don't approve.  There may well be some who would target me if they felt they could get away with it.  I cannot control the actions off beliefs of others.  If i were to "detransition" and go back into a closet the haters won't necessarily  decide to forget my reality.  I chose to be who i am.  

  At the same time there are many who simply say:  

"it's your life...  enjoy".

I hope i can simply let the haters hate, the supporters support and enjoy each day i'm given.

It's spring, lambs are coming soon and life goes on.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Cyndee]

Just now, Charlize said:

    life goes on

 Exactly 

[Sally Stone]

55 minutes ago, kat2 said:

Stealth was more about blending in

Kat that wasn't my experience.  I think I do a great job of blending in, but in a personal or close setting, I could never pass as a true female. I needed a world where being a trans woman and being recognized as a trans woman was okay.  I think stealth is actually perfection when you consider the objective, which in this context is not to be recognized as a trans woman but assumed to be AFAB instead.

[kat2]

On 3/15/2025 at 9:16 PM, Sally Stone said:

Kat that wasn't my experience.  I think I do a great job of blending in

Awe, thats lovely to hear. I am stealth I guess i fitted the criteria with being small. I am not sure i would like to be known as a trans women, one of the struggles i had was when i met my first real love, James, his mum was all over me and my mum and dad loved James to bits (had to tell my sister off too, she was after him) The honest difficulties i had which gender clinics do not prepare you for is if your boyfriends parents want children, James mum often chatted about wanting grand children and kept going on about well love your not getting any younger. it deeply upset me but my own mother came to the rescue and said there are women that cannot have children and that your one of those women. Same when i was learning to be a secretary at college the other girls asked me when i was due on?. I never had a relationship with a girl so didn't understand.?My other pet hate was getting into role as it was called, I wasnt that keen on dresses or skirts and would wear jeans, leggins sweat shirts and to this day i am still very much the same

 

 

[Sally Stone]

Kat, sounds as though you and I are different with different experiences, which shows that our trans community is so similar to the rest of society.  Each of us is unique, but it's that uniqueness that makes our community (and the rest of our human society) so great.  It saddens me when certain groups (like what's going on in the US at the moment) try to proclaim being different is wrong.  I just don't get that people miss the importance of human variation.  I don't want to live in a world where we are all forced to be the same.  You and I are sisters despite our differences.   

[kat2]

4 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

but it's that uniqueness that makes our community

Thats the whole point really well for me and a couple of friends. We feel so alien maybe just a product of our times we are no longer the de facto, but rather we are caught up in this mess, trapped by our medical history yet otherwise stealth not wishing to make any noise, now facing an existinal threat? for us it is a double blow to go through the grooming that we have done.

[MaeBe]

It is a good thing that “reprogramming” through “grooming” isn’t a requirement to be trans or get trans healthcare in the modern day. I feel great sympathy for people that were both committed for being transgender and those that were abandoned. It is a great victory for society that those standards of treatment have been left behind, their patriarchal roots left to whither.

 

I have always maintained that people made to suffer are forced by that crucible (or literally taught) to feel that others must suffer in the same way to be valid. It’s a reinforcing principle that maintains rigid control over the “system”. It is a horrible thing, even if there are “good intentions” behind them and they result in some good outcomes.

 

For me, the cat is proverbially out of the bag. I can no more be a man than I can be a stealth trans woman. There are hard edges that can be rounded and buffed out and I am committed to do them, but there’s only so much a trans girl can do without a fairy godmother. But, even if I were to be visibly flawless and incontrovertibly seen as a woman in society, I could not reject my trans experience or my trans siblings. Both of which are passive requirements of being socially stealth.

 

I will remain a woman, an out trans woman, in society and try to lift up and fight for transgender folx. 

[kat2]

13 hours ago, MaeBe said:

It is a great victory for society that those standards of treatment have been left behind,

Yes, the standards have indeed been left behind and replaced certainly in the United States, by the threat of non existence?

 

13 hours ago, MaeBe said:

and incontrovertibly seen as a woman in society, I could not reject my trans experience

There in lies the difference, i never did see myself as Trans or the third sex as interpreted by Trump when he said there are only two sex's? 

 

13 hours ago, MaeBe said:

others must suffer in the same way to be valid.

I do not feel that way at all, but remember the medical term "do no harm" if it was felt that giving an individual hormones, would not benefit them because it could cause more distress, remembering that hormones can only do so much, if you were tall broad shoulders large hands, no amount of hormones would change that same with voice which is often overlooked the grooming was about every single detail to improve the quality of life, the situation now coming out of the United States would be an existential threat to my life

[MaeBe]

Just now, kat2 said:

the situation now coming out of the United States would be an existential threat to my life

As if the US has a monopoly on “gender criticalism”. The homefront isn’t so rosy by comparison with GC Labor doing its best Tory impression. Streeting is a peach. All of that fuels the other GC movements. The Heritage Foundation/Trump used Cass as fodder for its policies just as much as Cass used US theocrats for its content.

 

Just now, kat2 said:

There in lies the difference, i never did see myself as Trans or the third sex as interpreted by Trump when he said there are only two sex's? 

The Right has said sex is indelible. Regardless of how much “grooming” you have suffered, you are trans and they have the vast medical records to prove it. But I guess it’s nice to feel as if none of this pertains to one’s self.

 

And am I reading this correctly, that gender non-conformity/non-binary people are “the problem”? Or is it all no-passing trans people?

 

Just now, kat2 said:

remembering that hormones can only do so much, if you were tall broad shoulders large hands

There are AFAB women with broad shoulders and larger hands. It seems as if there is a sense of superiority in being selected. Being deemed “womanly enough” by white jacketed men has a certain euphoria to it, I guess. If trans people aren’t borne as “demure”, what is their lot? They should just come to terms they will never be as happy as someone with your bone structure and suffer? Live the rest of their lives broken? Without aid?
 

Hormones aren’t just for fat redistribution. 

[MaeBe]

Just now, MaeBe said:

The Right has said sex is indelible.

Oops, Immutable. Early, ugly trans woman, morning brain. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

[kat2]

Just now, MaeBe said:

As if the US has a monopoly on “gender criticalism”

Well from the UK perspective it does and it did, simply put why did Cass go over to the United States when we have our own universities and gender clinics why not harvest the information from your own country, so in effect the USA did impact united kingdom trans healthcare.

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

But I guess it’s nice to feel as if none of this pertains to one’s self.

In some respects yes,  remember when i transitioned it was a treatable medical condition to align mind and body, that you went through a process to determine that you really had a mental health condition, that simply put you did not want to become something you already were, as i have repeatedly said we meaning myself are the minority now. I do not view myself as someone that has been married shared their body and remain in marriage to me now my life is a compromise better than being dead, but years ago thats where i was, in a mental hospital completely broken and even through the grooming process, i resented it but again the other option was not to exist. I was anything but sterio typical and that is very much the case today i wasnt all out on dress's make up indeed i still do not really bother with anything but a good sun blocker. At school asked all the time if i was a girl or boy and had no male friends at school, everything went wrong, high pitched voice, small and feminine but from my heart.

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

It seems as if there is a sense of superiority in being selected.

far from it the road ahead was horrific, in front of two psychiatrist every two weeks whilst others watched behind a glass screen was anything but, I only started to accept myself when hormones kicked in watching my body change gave me a sense of purpose, I found i could be cheeky with my body and made the most of it

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

they will never be as happy as someone with your bone structure and suffer?

you could argue that putting someone through hormone therapy will naturally heighten, your emotional levels and sticking out would also do the same thing thus causing distress. Years ago the few that i did see who did not meet what was deemed a successful outcome, just went away, the few did not die? 

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

And am I reading this correctly, that gender non-conformity/non-binary people are “the problem”

not at all, Tom boys have always existed

[MaeBe]

Just now, kat2 said:

you could argue that putting someone through hormone therapy will naturally heighten, your emotional levels and sticking out would also do the same thing thus causing distress. Years ago the few that i did see who did not meet what was deemed a successful outcome, just went away, the few did not die? 

As if they are not already distressed? And they “went away” yet you know they did not die? Perhaps they went DIY or maybe they did die?

 

Just now, kat2 said:

not at all, Tom boys have always existed

In the end, who needs gender criticals when we have “allies” that want us gone just as much if not more than them!

 

I am sorry that I exist and that has made things harder for you. As an American trans woman, who for the foreseeable future will be an ugly thumb stealthies detest, I apologize profusely!

[Lilis]

Emotions are running high in here, but it's important to remember that transphobia doesn’t discriminate based on gender presentation.

 

The opposition isn’t looking for ‘acceptable’ trans people, they want no trans people at all.

 

Stealth, passing, or not, it doesn’t matter.

 

Our strength comes from solidarity, not division.

[MaeBe]

Just now, Lilis said:

The opposition isn’t looking for ‘acceptable’ trans people, they want no trans people at all.

 

But we must see, obviously, it’s our own damn fault for this. Right? That’s what’s being peddled in between the lines and not even very veiled.

 

I agree we need solidarity, however people have to understand that hate and prejudice aren’t the victim’s fault. Blame cannot be leveled on those just trying to survive or for  the care that saves them—even though they may never be “cute, slight, and demure” women.

 

And who even gets to say who qualifies? White men?

[Lilis]

Just now, MaeBe said:

however people have to understand that hate and prejudice aren’t the victim’s fault. Blame cannot be leveled on those just trying to survive or for  the care that saves them—even though they may never be “cute, slight, and demure” women.

 

I am of the same opinion, blaming the victims instead of focusing on the actual source of oppression for example (anti-trans policies and the people pushing them) is of no use.

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

That’s what’s being peddled in between the lines and not even very veiled.

 

I get it, some people and even some in the trans community are implying that certain trans people, specifically those who are visibly non-conforming, non-binary are responsible for the backlash. Which is also untrue and of no use.

 

Just now, MaeBe said:

But we must see, obviously, it’s our own damn fault for this. Right?

 

Not at all, transphobia has no place in our community.

[MaeBe]

Just now, Lilis said:

Not at all, transphobia has no place in our community.

Agreed. That was me being facetious.

[Ivy]

On 3/14/2025 at 7:17 PM, KathyLauren said:

I don't care, because it really makes no difference to how they treat me, which is politely.  In eight years, no one has been nasty to my face.

This is mostly true for me.  There were a couple of incidences, but they didn't amount to much.

[Ivy]

On 3/15/2025 at 12:58 PM, Charlize said:

i am known as the person i am in this relatively small town.  I'm sure many here don't understand  and don't approve.  There may well be some who would target me if they felt they could get away with it.  I cannot control the actions off beliefs of others.  If i were to "detransition" and go back into a closet the haters won't necessarily  decide to forget my reality.  I chose to be who i am.  

This is kinda my situation as well.

I've been pretty open about who I am.  And yes, a lot of people don't understand, but mind their own business.

As for the others?  I guess I'll find out.

[Sally Stone]

3 hours ago, MaeBe said:

Oops, Immutable. Early, ugly trans woman, morning brain.

You may be up early, it may be due to morning brain, but "ugly trans woman" absolutely not!  MaeBe, you are as cute as cute can be.  Quit selling yourself short. 

 

But, the notion of "beauty" applies to this conversation, because the typical feminine beauty standard is the standard we are being held to, and it was flawed and unrealistic when it was only being applied to cis women.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

It seems like there's a blurry line between "passing successfully" and being "stealth."  I mean, isn't it a good thing?  And perhaps some of the negativity around the idea is from folks who are jealous that others are able to pass better than they do? 

 

For me, my goal is just to avoid notice.  Even in my girl form, I didn't want to be seen as pretty or as being particularly good at anything.  I slink from corner to corner, my style is drab, I'm often quiet, and I vanish pretty well.  I prefer my androgynous appearance because it lets people assume all sorts of things.  They believe what is easiest for their minds, and then forget me.  It certainly isn't perfect, but seems to work most of the time because it doesn't challenge people.  Not sure if that qualifies as stealth or not. 

 

If I am going to be seen for my real identity, I definitely feel the pressure to avoid the stereotypes that people will think of.  When folks learn about my identity or that of my friends, what I most like to hear is that we aren't what they expected, that they're surprised we're different from general population around us.  

[kat2]

12 hours ago, MaeBe said:

I am sorry that I exist and that has made things harder for you

The situation we are now in is not against any person on these forums, rather it is a situation we are now in, remember i said making no noise, blending in and i also used the words "cottage industry" My vent to be honest is those that wish to make noise, those that play the pro noun game, Those that wish to tell the world I am different look at me?. I have given two instances where two professional people i know resent the pro noun situation thrust upon them. I find it abhorrent when i am sometimes asked to introduce myself and then the usual pro noun crap that follows

 

12 hours ago, Lilis said:

Stealth, passing, or not, it doesn’t matter.

it does,but you are reading the wrong hymn sheet, Stealth by nature means "What do you mean i see nothing" my whole point is that too much noise has been created. Let me try another way and this is true by the way. When the Gender Recognition Act was being presented to 10 downing street London, the press and media turned out on mass, (naturally wanting to sell news papers) the noise from the press had us in stitches, "they look like ordinary men and women" no news value here lads, packed up and went. Because there was no noise it was just a useless photo of a crowd 

 

10 hours ago, Lilis said:

I get it, some people and even some in the trans community are implying that certain trans people, specifically those who are visibly non-conforming, non-binary are responsible for the backlash.

That is not the case unless they are responsible for the cottage industry?Transsexualism in its concept was to align your mind and body to one or the other. Transgender seems to be totally different, we now seem to have a broad spectrum from gender fluid, how the heck do. you treat gender fluid? all the time this is making noise,none conformity has also always existed but it was not part of the Trans spectrum.

 

8 hours ago, Sally Stone said:

notion of "beauty" applies to this conversation, because the typical feminine beauty standard is the standard we are being held to

I do not subscribe to that, i do not see myself personally as beautiful, i am just like any other ordinary woman, that is why i use the words blend in. I am the type of woman that does not wear makeup, no ear rings, very drab. The only thing for me is my dam hair some times i have it curled, or straight with streaks of blond in.

 

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Not sure if that qualifies as stealth or not.

You blend in, you make no noise, i am the same, I do not regard myself as pretty or beautiful anything but Before i embarked upon my transition my mind gave me hell, i had all kinds of tests done to try and make sense indeed had a pill been offered by the psychiatrist at that moment in time i would have taken it and
passed away thats why i was in hospital, i wanted out, but once on hormones my mind and body gave me purpose

Beauty is not something i aspire too, as i have said throughout this post, blending in,making no statement or noise, nothing to see here