Transsexualism, Transgender

[kat2]

Just now, Lilis said:

That said, I’m not here to judge or try to “fix” you. I’ll leave that to the cisgender people who think they have all the answers.

I certainly do not have all the answers, there is nothing to fix, i went through a process conformed to it and came out like any other female, i know this because of my interactions with other girls around me.

 

Just now, Lilis said:

Do you see now why you can’t treat me the same way?

gosh, do you feel i should treat you any way? you have carved out your own destination and you are at the start of your Journey and i wish you well on that journey, I hope you have a rich and rewarding life much the same as i have had, I can look back over many years and smile, i can think of silly situations and laugh remember deep loving relationships that will last me forever.

[April Marie]

Just now, kat2 said:

April Marie,

            I am sorry if you feel i am coming across that way, it is certainly not my intention, if you look at and back to the 1980s, the mantra was very much, you make no noise, you blend in meaning no labels your just identical to any other woman, you went about your life like any other woman. I nearly died just before christmas, was it not for the mental health professionals who found a solution i am free to live without a label (for the time being anyway) I did not belong to anything i was living a very successful life until my partner died Dennis was my rock. 

April if you have found what makes you happy that is the most important thing, can i not say i do not understand it? meaning i am not technically part of any such groups, my own transition was and always will be looked upon as being like any other woman. I do not even like the word Transsexual but thats what i ended up with, i would much prefer just an ordinary woman who has managed to carve out a life for myself.

I am deeply sorry for all the difficulties you've experienced in life, including the loss of your partner. You lived a very different experience than the vast majority of us. Medical and psychological approaches have changed since your transition, in many respects. But, that doesn't make the experiences of those of us who came later any less meaningful than yours.

 

You ask for our understanding of your life and transition, yet seem unable and/or unwilling to grant any understanding to us. It's not just about a label. It's about our personal identity, our own mental health.

 

I'm not here to argue. I just want you to be aware that your words have been hurtful to some of us whether you meant it or not. Ours is a community of support and acceptance. We're here to help and lift each other. I'm going to get back to that and enjoy a dance party with hundreds of other transgender women tonight.

 

I value your daily updates and pictures. And, I wish you nothing but happiness.

[kat2]

Just now, Vidanjali said:

Trans people who don't transition at all are just as valid as trans people who go full binary transition, and everyone in between.

As i have pointed out and will say sorry if i have triggered anyone, is it not right to ask questions? do we flame down and shut off?

isnt debate healthy? I have made it very clear I am not Transgender I am if i have to have a medical label Transsexual, I do not subscribe to any collective union i am very much a minority who carved out a very successful life living as i feel as best i can and make the most of what i was given at birth and turn it around into a positive. I do not want to be part of the transgender umbrella, my partner died and i became lost with all the new words i was coming across, Dennis and i never talked about my past we had far too much in common and when our worlds collided it was as if we mirrored each other, we were both connected to show business, we were both successful in our own right, we both enjoyed the same food, and music when he died my world fell apart, only last wednesday whilst out with friends a guy from the pop group the farm came over and said your Dennis was the man he gave me a hug but it brought it all back. It is a sad and uncertain time for me, i am sorry if i have caused any upset to anyone that is not and was not my intention, it is about trying to understand what is going on and why i do not relate 

[Rachel Searching]

Just now, kat2 said:

As i have pointed out and will say sorry if i have triggered anyone, is it not right to ask questions? do we flame down and shut off?

isnt debate healthy? I have made it very clear I am not Transgender I am if i have to have a medical label Transsexual, I do not subscribe to any collective union i am very much a minority who carved out a very successful life living as i feel as best i can and make the most of what i was given at birth and turn it around into a positive. I do not want to be part of the transgender umbrella, my partner died and i became lost with all the new words i was coming across, Dennis and i never talked about my past we had far too much in common and when our worlds collided it was as if we mirrored each other, we were both connected to show business, we were both successful in our own right, we both enjoyed the same food, and music when he died my world fell apart, only last wednesday whilst out with friends a guy from the pop group the farm came over and said your Dennis was the man he gave me a hug but it brought it all back. It is a sad and uncertain time for me, i am sorry if i have caused any upset to anyone that is not and was not my intention, it is about trying to understand what is going on and why i do not relate 

Debate is healthy, I couldn't agree more. I see that you lived your life as a woman successfully and that no one knew you were a transexual when they met you, simply treating you as a woman, which is fantastic and a goal many of us would like to attain. However many of us never will and this is fundamentally what's going on. It's living a life, wanting to be seen in the way you are, but knowing you never will. If you can, try and see that reality in your mind and you will have an insight into the minds of many trans people. I think this will help you understand what's going on and why some perspectives seem so different to yours. Not that yours is in any way wrong, in fact you've achieved something which many of us would like to if we're honest, it's just that we never will. You have suffered, there is no doubt and I'm genuinely sorry for that, others suffer in different ways. 

[kat2]

Just now, Rachel Searching said:

It's living a life, wanting to be seen in the way you are, but knowing you never will. If you can, try and see that reality in your mind and you will have an insight into the minds of many trans people

hi Rachel and thank you for posting, I feel i now understand alot more than i did when i joined Tgp. My journey was rigid and clear, go though a defined procedure or die. Transgender seems to be many different things and there is nothing wrong with that, it is not something i can relate too. by saying and knowing what we are not we then can clearly define as best we can as to where we may fit in.

[Lilis]

Just now, kat2 said:

gosh, do you feel i should treat you any way? you have carved out your own destination and you are at the start of your Journey and i wish you well on that journey, I hope you have a rich and rewarding life much the same as i have had,

 

Thank you, kat2!  🫂💗

Now let's go make some noise! .... /joking  

[awkward-yet-sweet]

12 hours ago, kat2 said:

I personally never saw intersex as being part of the Trans umbrella, it does after all have its own definition in the dictionary

 

That is not the case for me years of being under the mental health act put me firmly of a mind to make no noise to blend and get along as any other woman would, I was with Dennis for fifteen years until he passed away, i do not take part in any trans events or pride, i do not wear anything rainbow, i do not join a cause, like i have said i am probably the last of a very tiny minority indeed even more so that i was diagnosed as being a primary Transsexual, a medical treatable condition with a flow path of hormones, then surgery indeed there was a very strict time line that you followed.

 

Intersex is indeed its own category.  But Intersex and Transgender aren't mutually exclusive.  I happen to be kind of both.  Intersex as a medical diagnosis.  Transgender in that my body is mostly female-ish on the outside, but I feel like I should have had a male body instead.  I end up being sort of androgynous, although I'm not gender-fluid (I'm the same all the time), and I'm not non-binary. 

 

The transgender umbrella may not quite fit everybody, but LGBTQ2IA..etc is a big umbrella and getting bigger.  The umbrella of this forum certainly is bigger than just being transgender, in spite of the name. 

 

It does seem like medical stuff in the UK is super rigid.  I'd never want to live there, for a metric ton of reasons.  I don't want a timeline, or anybody pushing me, or asking permission of anybody.  It took a long time to find a doctor who actually lets me tell her what I need, and enables that.  I don't need a label, either.  Just my GF's wallet

 

11 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

I, too, find that being asked my pronouns to be a bit disconcerting.  My presentation is a quite binary version of feminine, so I would hope that my preference for she/her pronouns is obvious.  But non-binary folk are real, whether I understand them or not, and it is a harmful thing to exclude them.  So I understand that the question is intended to be inclusive, even though I personally do not need that particular inclusion.  Inclusion is a good thing.  So I simply answer the question, though I suppose there is a tone to my voice that suggests, "Duh, I thought that would be obvious."

 

Yeah, I think the pronoun questions are intended for folks like me.  The ones people ask about in hushed tones, "Is that a girl or a boy?"    The thing is, I find the question awkward because I don't really have a firm answer.  "What do you think?" and "I'm good with any of it" aren't the expected responses. 

 

7 hours ago, Timi said:

PS. There is another umbrella term for transgender people. It is the umbrella term that the vast majority of non-transgender people use for us. There are variations of the term, but I shall use the version that the singer Pink appropriated and turned into a badge of honor in her song Raise Your Glass. That term is "dirty little freaks."

 

Yep.  I use that term as a badge of honor...at least, my partners use it as a compliment in a private setting. 

 

3 hours ago, April Marie said:

For many of us, transition is a slow process where we have to navigate very long term relationships and, in some cases, opt not to fully transition out of desire to retain those relationships. Does that eliminate us from wishing to be part of the greater Trans Community? I think not. In fact, the inclusion is perhaps even more important because we still need to support and assistance that being part of a community brings. It is exactly why we identify as Trans.

 

Exactly!  I know for me, just figuring out who and what I am took years. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Oh, and I'll add this.  I have two different thoughts about the term "Transexual."

 

#1 - Its like an older term for transgender, and some folks use it in that way.

 

#2 - I think we're using it totally wrong.  Think about it: "Homosexual" meaning sexually attracted to the same.  "Heterosexual" meaning sexually attracted to different.  So, if we're being consistent, shouldn't "Transsexual" mean a type of sexual attraction or orientation?  Like, being sexually attracted to transgender people?  And if that's the case, given the huge quantity of transgender porn on the web, I'd say there are a lot of closet Transsexual people

 

Perhaps its just another case of the English language being a weird goulash of different elements, inconsistently applied.  Or maybe my brain is just misfiring...

[Mirrabooka]

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

#2 - I think we're using it totally wrong.  Think about it: "Homosexual" meaning sexually attracted to the same.  "Heterosexual" meaning sexually attracted to different.  So, if we're being consistent, shouldn't "Transsexual" mean a type of sexual attraction or orientation?  Like, being sexually attracted to transgender people?  And if that's the case, given the huge quantity of transgender porn on the web, I'd say there are a lot of closet Transsexual people

Very good point.

 

I have my own theory. Knowing that transsexual is generally considered to be an older term, it seems reasonable to me that it was used in the era before people became enlightened enough to know that there actually is a difference between gender identity and sexuality. Even now, there are still some ignorant folks who assume that if a man wore a dress, it must mean that he is gay. It's just what they think. A generation or two ago, those sentiments would have been almost universal among cis-het people.

[kat2]

4 hours ago, Lilis said:

Now let's go make some noise! .... /joking  

 Electrolysis - 2/23/2025 ⚡

• Full body laser - 3/26/2025 

It appears you will be the one making all the noise, ROFL, one advantage of some of the old medications was firstly body hair was reduced and turned to a wispy blonde and then all my body hair stopped growing and it never returned!!!

[April Marie]

Just now, kat2 said:

 Electrolysis - 2/23/2025 ⚡

• Full body laser - 3/26/2025 

It appears you will be the one making all the noise, ROFL, one advantage of some of the old medications was firstly body hair was reduced and turned to a wispy blonde and then all my body hair stopped growing and it never returned!!!

Ooooh, if only! I'm jealous!!!

 

I was just thinking that I need to shave my legs this morning since I'll be wearing an above knee dress to the gala tonight.

[kat2]

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

It does seem like medical stuff in the UK is super rigid.

You might be pleased to hear that from the days of my own transition, much has changed, you can self certify to get hormones and you no longer need to turn up to Gender Clinics indeed most is done online with very few visits to the clinics. I am very much the last of what was.

 

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

- Its like an older term for transgender, and some folks use it in that way.

Yes, thats my worry of an assumption, when there is clearly a definition and process, in much the same way that the USA has decided to not mention the existence of the medical condition intersex, both intersex and transsexual are medical conditions.

 

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Transsexual" mean a type of sexual attraction or orientation?

No Sex is nothing to do with the word Transsexual, the media back in the 1980s made lots of money by printing photos of Transsexuals and then the public became fascinated with something that was normally not talked about.

 

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Like, being sexually attracted to transgender people

But many on this forum have said the word Transgender means many different things, where as i have not come across on these forums anyone using the word Transsexual, after reading my medical records and the definition as it stands means to re align your body and mind

 

2 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

given the huge quantity of transgender porn on the web, I'd say there are a lot of closet Transsexual people

I find your remarks offensive, how do you know there are lots of porn on the web? no doubt you may have been looking!! porn does not interest me. And why would Transgender people post such porn?

[Lilis]

Just now, kat2 said:

one advantage of some of the old medications was firstly body hair was reduced and turned to a wispy blonde and then all my body hair stopped growing and it never returned!!!

 

Hey, that sounds great! Is it still available? If you don’t mind, could you DM me the details on the content and dosage? I’d love to run it by my doctor and see if it’s a good fit for me.

[Ivy]

10 hours ago, Rachel Searching said:

to put it very simply, if we agree that trans people existed before surgical interventions were possible, then this is the conclusion I have to come to.

This is kinda how I see it as well.  I tend to think of it as how we live.

 

I've been on hormones for over 5 years now, and live fem full time.  I actually have lost a bit of body hair, which is nice.  But at my age (and income level) I can't see surgery happening.

 

I ran into Blanchard's ideas a few years ago, and don't put much stock in them.  I mean if I live as a woman and identify as such, what would be so weird about having thoughts of sex as a woman?

 

While we share many experiences, our transition is personal to ourselves.

[Vidanjali]

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

As i have pointed out and will say sorry if i have triggered anyone

 

Thanks for that

 

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

is it not right to ask questions?

 

Of course, it's fine to ask questions, however...

 

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

do we flame down and shut off?

 

it may appear we do because...

 

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

isnt debate healthy?

 

a debate implies there are opposite sides, each trying to convince the other that they're right. And perhaps I am not understanding your communication style, but it seems you are indeed debating over defending that your personal experience and beliefs - that those across the transgender spectrum are noisemakers who have created a "cottage industry" because we want labels to feel special and in so-doing are threatening the lives of binary transexuals - are right and others are wrong. Your experience is valid. There's no question about that. And your beliefs are too; they are your own. But no one's personal experience and beliefs define THE truth. So, instead of debating who's right and who's wrong, we can share and learn to empathize with each other. We can listen to and validate experiences and perspectives. One does not need others to agree with them for their experience and beliefs to be valid. So, when the debate sounds like this: "You're not really valid, don't you think? Don't you agree that you should quit saying you are who you think you are and insisting on visibility and dignity because it's a threat to my well-being? Reply." then it's neither productive nor healthy. 

 

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

I have made it very clear I am not Transgender I am if i have to have a medical label Transsexual, I do not subscribe to any collective union i am very much a minority who carved out a very successful life living as i feel as best i can and make the most of what i was given at birth and turn it around into a positive. I do not want to be part of the transgender umbrella...

It is a sad and uncertain time for me, i am sorry if i have caused any upset to anyone that is not and was not my intention, it is about trying to understand what is going on and why i do not relate 

 

Thanks very much for this. This is very clear and I understand where you're coming from and feel for you even though it's not my personal experience. I understand why it's a sad and uncertain time for you. I think it's beautiful that you have gained a clearer perspective on your own identity, and thereby helped others to understand yours. We who do identify as transgender desire the same. It's clear you feel hurt by the transgender population. Likewise, transgender people's desire for visibility, dignity, and rights were never meant to undermine your safety and existence. My hope for all of us is existence with fulfillment, love, and peace. And that may not be reflected in our external circumstances because no one on earth has ever led a life free of challenges. So, that calmness and steadiness comes from within. And that's a lifelong pursuit. Can we turn away from blame and use that energy to pursue goodwill? Goodwill for all. That's the ultimate challenge - to see the humanity in all and to simply deal with the practical reality in front of us.

 

 

[kat2]

Just now, Vidanjali said:

a debate implies there are opposite sides, each trying to convince the other that they're right.

I am in the minority, i have made that very clear, trying to understand is not a debate it is what it is, that is to say, I do not understand

 

Just now, Vidanjali said:

that those across the transgender spectrum are noisemakers who have created a "cottage industry" because we want labels

I am not sure of why labels are needed, remember i come from a time, when all i was seeking was body re alignment, I did not ask for pro nouns, i had never heard of gender fluid, i am not part of a pride or flag, i am just an ordinary woman trying to blend in with the other girls around me, when i am roped in and asked for my pro noun, when all i was ever told was to blend in flies in the face of all that i have gone through

 

Just now, Vidanjali said:

because it's a threat to my well-being? Reply." then it's neither productive nor healthy. 

no, neither is the situation we are now in or rather those that are Transgender, in America at least the whole concept is being eradicated. Because i went under the umbrella of mental illness treatable by a process, it is very different now, the very word Transgender seems to mean a whole range of things and sadly Transsexuals have been caught up in this mess. Lets try another way, there are no medications that say trans patients take this dosage, certainly there was no transgender hospitals there is no transgender ward in a hospital, everything is classed as off label, Surgeries are done by Urologists, nothing exists but then.... does it? well it must do, but wait i don't see it, well thats because it all blends in seamless, there is no noise because there is nothing to see. How would you feel if you are waiting for a scan, a nurse looks up over her computer and said, I can see sensitive information about you, and then grins, how would you feel take into account that the scan was nothing to do with why i was there and you are then confronted, have you had the op? you know, snip? grining whilst it saying it? then, whats your prefered pro noun, I begged the nurse to stop i said that she was upsetting me, and that it was nothing to do with why i was there, i felt violated something well hidden out on a computer screen to be lobbed back at me.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

13 hours ago, kat2 said:

You might be pleased to hear that from the days of my own transition, much has changed, you can self certify to get hormones and you no longer need to turn up to Gender Clinics indeed most is done online with very few visits to the clinics. I am very much the last of what was.

 

Yes, thats my worry of an assumption, when there is clearly a definition and process, in much the same way that the USA has decided to not mention the existence of the medical condition intersex, both intersex and transsexual are medical conditions.

 

No Sex is nothing to do with the word Transsexual, the media back in the 1980s made lots of money by printing photos of Transsexuals and then the public became fascinated with something that was normally not talked about.

 

But many on this forum have said the word Transgender means many different things, where as i have not come across on these forums anyone using the word Transsexual, after reading my medical records and the definition as it stands means to re align your body and mind

 

I find your remarks offensive, how do you know there are lots of porn on the web? no doubt you may have been looking!! porn does not interest me. And why would Transgender people post such porn?

 

Well, you certainly took that in a different direction than I meant it, and added crass accusations on top.... I guess it goes to show that we may both use a form of English, but it ain't the same language.  Honestly the whole Transexual vs. Transgender thing is really starting to seem like splitting hairs.  A dispute for disputing's sake. 

 

Use what word you want, in the way you want to use it....nobody's gonna object to that or be offended by it.  As for me, I'll choose to acquire my headaches in some different way. 

[kat2]

49 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Transexual vs. Transgender thing is really starting to seem like splitting hairs

To me it is more than splitting hairs, it is to define that there is a clear and marked difference, and that was my reason for starting this heading. You and i have clearly defined medical conditions, intersex and Transsexual are very clear, I went through a treatable medical procedure.Since you mentioned porn, it is very much in the male domain.

[Mirrabooka]

I must admit I have only paid scant attention to this thread, chiming in with comments to tangential replies. As a consequence, and probably due to my general disinterest (because I don't really see it as an issue in my particular case), I haven't become upset with anything written here. I've brushed it off.

 

@kat2 I just wonder if, due to the fact that you said at the top: "I came under the word Transsexual, that was and is written in my medical records..." have you ever considered that your medical records might have been incorrectly filled out? Written by an ignorant doctor? 

 

 

[kat2]

Just now, Mirrabooka said:

that was and is written in my medical records..." have you ever considered that your medical records might have been incorrectly filled out? Written by an ignorant doctor? 

Hi Mirabooka, 

     and thank you for posting, no, when ever i was around Transgender people they would start by saying when i was ex yy zz age i started to wear womens clothes? I would bark back and say its not about clothes, it is about body and the more Transgender people i came across the more i did not relate,for me very deeply it was always about my body, i tried to get rid of a certain part of my body and eventually had a break down by this time i was in hospital, four psychiatrist came to the same conclusion, but i found it hard to conform, another break down and eventually i was on my way hormones made things clearer for me, i watched my body grow the term transsexual clearly defines it is body re alignment and hormones, that fitted me. Sadly after going through the grooming process, that is to say gender identity clinic every two weeks and getting into role, my surgery failed. I said something stupid in hospital because of my failed surgery I ended up being secured, two weeks later i was released back to the gender clinic I was given a care plan which involved visiting several surgeons, but before each surgery i had to prove that i was mentally well enough so at each stage i had a reassessment and i was pushed to different gender clinics due to the time slots available. Each Gender clinic wrote the following in the surgical referral letter, this male to female transsexual, so all the clinics and psychiatrists used the same wording. The rub for me was the gender clinic grooming process, that is to say i had to attend in role, and i resented that.

 

[Betty K]

@kat2 for many transgender people it is very much about "aligning the body" too. Many transgender people take hormones, many transgender people get gender-affirming surgeries. If some of us tend to often mention when we first started dressing in women's clothes it is probably because we fear we will not be believed when we say we have always been this way, and that memory is evidence that we saw ourselves the same way as children. I presume you've heard the saying "The clothes maketh the man"? Well, they can maketh the woman too, and the girl. In fact, you see little cisgender girls trying on outfits all the time, trying on identities. Didn't you ever dress in girl's clothes as a kid?

[Lilis]

Just now, kat2 said:

when ever i was around Transgender people they would start by saying when i was ex yy zz age i started to wear womens clothes? I would bark back and say its not about clothes, it is about body and the more Transgender people i came across the more i did not relate,for me very deeply it was always about my body,

 

Just now, kat2 said:

4 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Transexual vs. Transgender thing is really starting to seem like splitting hairs

To me it is more than splitting hairs, it is to define that there is a clear and marked difference, and that was my reason for starting this heading. 

 

I understand, and I agree with you now.

So, what is your request?

Is it a separate "Transexual Subcategory" in these forums?

[kat2]

Just now, Betty K said:

The clothes maketh the man"? Well, they can maketh the woman

Now I have found a very clear definition that defines my thoughts and not an umbrella to mean many different things i can confidently say I  fit the heading Transsexual, by all who have posted in this thread, none have directly said it is about body realignment i was very clear on my journey, this was also one of the biggest heart aches for me indeed, when confronted by the gender clinic, i had written on my report, "the patient refused to get in role" I ended up back in hospital totally screwed, i thought what is it with this clothes thing? I argued with the psychiatrists, and said if i wear a doctors coat would that then make me a doctor? I had another breakdown and had one option comply or die.Betty. all my younger life i was asked if i was a girl, even my cousins would call me a pretty girl, my aunt took me into the bedroom and put a smock on me that she had made, i ended up with two ribbons in my hair, I hid until my aunt picked me up and put me down on the settee, my mother was furious and I was never able to see that aunt again. For me it was those around me that constantly bombarded me with are you a girl in the end i started to wonder why virtually everyone i came into contact with said the same, I had stunted growth and was sent off to ballet school daily, school clothes were tights or sweat pants and leggins, yes you have guessed it, i ended up doing the girls parts in double work, this then when there were more girls than boys, clothes to me are a form of expression, once on hormones i began to appreciate going through puberty, watching my hips grow, boys started to pay me attention even at college, i started to enjoy clothing my body in such a way that could tease and have fun expressing myself both from my inner self and now for the first time on the outside too

[Betty K]

@kat2 okay, but none of that says anything at all about those of us who do feel they are transgender. You do you, that's great. The problem only starts when you start trying to tell the rest of us who or what we are. Probably nobody has mentioned "body alignment" because that is not a phrase any of us use, but you can take it from me, trans people often take hormones and often get surgeries, and we do it to make our bodies more resemble how we feel inside.

 

Btw as I've said in another thread, I got mistaken for a girl as a child too. Not as much as you, but it did happen. At the time it upset me. Did it upset you? I'm beginning to wonder if you are a unique type of transsexual indeed: someone who was pressured into transitioning. If so, that seems incredibly lucky in one sense and potentially traumatic in another.

 

As to clothes, just fyi trans women are certainly not the only women who love them. A lot of women love clothes. If you don't, again, that's fine. But for those of us who do, feeling as if we couldn't openly wear the clothes we wanted to wear was torturous.

 

 

[kat2]

Just now, Lilis said:

So, what is your request?

Is it a separate "Transexual Subcategory" in these forums?

Life is a journey of discovery, i have learnt from these forums that if i had to have a label at all then the most accurate would be transsexual, since i do not like labels and out in the real world i am just like any other female going about my life and that is all i want