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Guest Elizabeth K

Hell

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Guest Elizabeth K

Topic from HELL

How do I stay out of that hot hole? I mean it is for eternity and that could be a problem after a while? My wife – not a good day for her maybe maybe, said she was going to heaven because of everything she has had to do in putting up with me. She didn’t exactly say I was going to hell, but she did suggest she probably wouldn’t see me in heaven!

Why my being transsexual and the problems it causes, is my fault, is another TOPIC. Whoa! One at a time.

And my sisters, both Fundamental Christians, they worry about my soul in hell for eternity. I mean with all that feedback – should I be worried? And if so, is what they say valid? I mean that there is no such thing as being transgenderd, there is no such thing as being born the wrong sex, that therapist do the devil’s work (TS or standard stuff I think, any kind of therapy). They go on to say I am choosing a life style, which I probably picked up from the Internet (you guys and gals – shame on you!) and that maybe it was because I live in New Orleans. (DON’T drink the water!)

But my sisters say I am definitely getting farther and farther away from GOD, and I may burn in hell. Or was it I WILL burn in hell.

In any case - how can I stay out of HELL?

PLEASE understand I am NOT ASKING how to go to heaven – there is a Holy book on that. – I want to know how to STAY OUT OF HELL.

Lizzy

An aside – I don’t really believe in HELL so what you say won’t really matter; I am really just stirring up trouble… my goodness – how cruel of me to say that! That alone might get me there – so… never mind!

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Guest ~Brenda~

Sweetheart,

Regardless of what anyone says to you or about you, you are a caring, loving woman. You have helped so many people around the world. No one goes to HELL for that!! Your immediate family may have problems with you. That is their problem!! Not yours!! You are being yourself with love. Your family is blind to the goodness of who you are!

Your family may not see you, but we do, and God does too.

Love

Brenda

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Guest NatalieRene

The only thing you have to do to not go to hell is the only thing you have to do to go to heaven and that is to believe in Jesus Christ and accept that he died for your sins. That is it you don't have to do anything else. Jesus died for everybody's sins. The only way to abandon God is to renounce God. Obviously you haven't so you are no further from God now then you where before you started transitioning. Your immortal soul is safe. Everything your sisters are telling you while speaking for God is to push their agenda. They are not spreading God's message they are spreading their message in God's name. You can't talk with these kind of people they will only ever push their agenda, I wouldn't bother even keeping in touch with your sisters anymore if they are going to continue with their nonsense.

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Guest mia 1
'Elizabeth K'

Topic from HELL

But my sisters say I am definitely getting farther and farther away from GOD, and I may burn in hell. Or was it I WILL burn in hell.

All this after life aside THE "sisters'' must have been in the military because there is no "may" in the Army. It is you will as in you will be prosecuted, not you may be prosecuted..That always stuck in my mind..and I knew there was no wiggle room..unless of course you were a Brown Noser and kissed up to the first sargeant...but I digress and I'm off topic...Hey I wonder where picked that up......hmmmmm. :D

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Guest Pól

As far as I know, the best way to stay out of hell is to do the best you can, to try to be the best person you can be. Avoid sin as much as you can, confess for what you can't, go to mass, take communion, and more generally just try to be a good person. Help others without expecting anything in return, 'pay it forward,' and try to be kind. That doesn't mean you have to be wishywashy -- you can be kind, good, and still be a person with a backbone. Try to have mindfulness in your actions also, because goodness without awareness is not worth nearly as much.

If you are close to God in your thoughts and your actions, I'd like to think that your trans-ness is irrelevant to God. Not unimportant, just not a determining factor of whether or not you go to hell. I think this attitude is kind of like how people used to say that if you were black or Native American or different, you couldn't get into heaven. Just like transphobia, denying the possibility of entrance to heaven is a way of asserting the superiority of what is familiar. You can't change who you are -- you can change how you are.

I don't think you should bother arguing with your sisters because they're not going to change their minds based on anything you say. The only way is to show them that you're a good person, and that's by being a good person.You are not responsible for making your sisters see anything differently, and you should try not to feel guilty that they think you're going to hell.

Your sisters aren't priests, bishops, cardinals, or even the pope, much less God. They don't decide who gets into heaven and who doesn't. It's important to remember that it is not our job to understand God's reasoning, much less to assert what God would or would not do. If we could understand all that He does, we would be gods ourselves, and we are not. Your sisters have no more authority than you do in figuring out who does and does not get into heaven. They themselves might go to hell for the way they treat you, but we can't know. All you can do is the best you can, and let God worry about the rest.

Some notes/explanations: I'm Catholic, so my response to Lizzy's question is a reflection of the way I've been raised and what I believe. This is in no way meant to offend people who have different beliefs. I do try to live by this though, for what that's worth. Lizzy, I don't know if I've answered your question at all, but this was my best stab. I'm not a particularly eloquent person, and I've tried to lay down what I think, even if it's simple and naive. Please excuse the simplicity of this response.

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Guest mia 1
The only thing you have to do to not go to hell is the only thing you have to do to go to heaven and that is to believe in Jesus Christ and accept that he died for your sins. That is it you don't have to do anything else. Jesus died for everybody's sins. The only way to abandon God is to renounce God. Obviously you haven't so you are no further from God now then you where before you started transitioning. Your immortal soul is safe. Everything your sisters are telling you while speaking for God is to push their agenda. They are not spreading God's message they are spreading their message in God's name. You can't talk with these kind of people they will only ever push their agenda, I wouldn't bother even keeping in touch with your sisters anymore if they are going to continue with their nonsense.

There your safe whew!

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Sally

Lizzy,

There is one thing to remember - God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to perrish for their sins.

No one makes that kind of a sacrafice to turn their back on you later.

Unconditional love means just that - we are all welcome.

We are living in Paradise and yet we work so hard to destroy it, we have been given the keys to the kingdom and are so busy trying to keep others out.

The truth is that there are no keys to the kingdom of heaven because those gates have no locks and they are never closed.

Love ya,

Sally

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Guest Aurea

Hell doesn't exits, it's the invention of Zoroastrianism (first monotheistic religion), on which Judeo Christianity is based, and Zoroastrianism on it's terms came from worshiping Mazda, and go back even further you'll end up by the Druids who had Iesa Crios (notice the name, rings a bell doesn't it) who had a crown of roses, instead of a crown of thorns.

Heaven & hell are here, it's up to us to pick one. Follow your heart.

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Carolyn Marie

My Goodness, Elizabeth, you ARE in an existential funk tonight, aren't you?

Heaven, Hell, and the waiting room for souls (aka the "Oort Cloud of Consciousness").

I'm not going to tackle those quandaries, at least not tonight, having just finished watching Hell's Kitchen

and finding my mind tainted by the experience.

I suggest watching "What Dreams May Come" for the answers on what Heaven is all about. I'm sure

I can come up with a movie selection for the other two questions, if given enough time and enough

liquid spirits.

I strongly suggest for YOU, my dear Lizzy, a nice warm glass of milk and a good sleep.

You'll be your good old cantankerous self in the morning. I'm counting on it. Lol

Carolyn Marie

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Guest Eth

Well, here's how I see it:

If such a God really exists (one that sends people to hell over that)... then this universe is seriously messed up. That would be completely and totally illogical. Why would a God create people who have no choice but to live as who they are, or suffer unbearable torture while they're on Earth, only to send them to hell when they look out for themselves?

Personally I think the entire idea of hell is seriously flawed. If you believe in hell, then you believe that God is a malevolent and sadomasochistic supreme entity that rules the universe only to cause pain to itself and its creations. How do I come to this conclusion? Simple...

God loves all their creations, right? God doesn't want us to suffer. Yet God creates hell and yet creates "free will" so that we will make mistakes, or live as we see fit but God 'prohibits', and then be sentenced to an eternity of torture just for doing what God designed humans to do. Does nobody else see the absurdity in this?

Next, God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, right? If hell exists, then saying that God is benevolent and omniscient is to contradict one's self. Time is a concept created by humans. Because of the way that we are "designed", we perceive 'time' as a string of events that happen in a linear pattern, with the past being what we have already experienced, the future being what we will experience, and the present being what we are currently experiencing. Technically speaking, the universe is infinite, and therefore time is for the most part irrelevant. The only reason time matters to us humans is because we are not infinite. We have a beginning and an end. We don't "loop" or exist indefinately. Our existence can be measured, so we measure it with 'time'.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and infinite in our universe, then the concept of 'time' does not apply to God. Everything does and does not exist all at ohnce from God's perspective. Imagine the universe as a big "computer", but basically it's all lines of code and scripts for how it should work and run. Like a huge filing room with tons of cabinets stuffed with binders that are filled with scripts that make the universe work. That's about as good of a comparison we can really get with how a God might view the universe. Just a bunch of complex lines of code that can all be moved, altered, deleted or added whenever. Since time doesn't exist, everything is being changed at the same moment. Whether or not there's a sense of "time" as we know it at all, we can't be certain because we've never really perceived things like that, and thus can't imagine an existence without 'time' (it's taking out a whole dimension that we live by), but I guess you could say that since 'time' is just a code in those files, everything is done all at once and .. uh.. constantly. I don't have proper words to describe it. It doesn't happen in a time that is comparable to our own in any way, since when the code is altered, our time is altered. I guess that's the best way to look at it.

Okay so God is infinite, omnipotent and blah blah blah, because God controls all of these metaphorical 'files'. WE are all supposedly 'codes' in God's file cabinet. God may code us to have "free will", but that doesn't change the fact that our linear perception of time is also a code invented by God, and God can see everything that ever was, is and will be all at once, because to God it's all right there in a handy little folder that they created. Despite the fact that we have "free will", God knows all of our "choices" and "mistakes", and therefore knows who will and won't get into 'heaven' before they even created them. For God to create someone, knowing FULL WELL that they will just end up in hell, is a complete and total absurdity unless you believe God is malevolent, and possibly sadomasochistic if they really "love" all their creations. If they're creating things they love, only to send them to the depths of hell for doing something God already knew they would do, is that not totally self-hurting? It's sadistic, because they're creating life that they know will result in endless sufferring, and masochistic because they're sending someone they "love" to be tortured by 'fire and brimstone'.

I don't personally believe in God, but I think that if there is one, they can't be like any of the ones depicted here on Earth. They're all just too absurd. If a God like that- who creates things that seem absurd and then punishes humans for finding that absurdity and leaving it- really truly exists, then to hell with that (yay puns). I simply cannot believe that the universe is so epically stupid. If it is, then that's the ultimate in wrong. If there really is a God, they better be as wise and fair as an omniscient being should be, and be accepting of all people regardless. A being that supreme could even make the worst of hate-mongerers into 'good' people, so what would be the point in sending people to hell who haven't done anything wrong but simply don't believe in that God until they see it? If a human like me can reason this, then a God should well be able to too.

And that's my argument for why hell is an extreme improbability.

愛 Eth

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Guest Tammy Maher

Lizzy

Although I'm not a Christian I can tell you some good advice from my side. You are already there. From my perspective living each day is indeed very much Hell. Again I said I'm not Christian and I do understand that Christians are usually concerned about their final resting place. So I would suggest to live your life to the fullest, have no regrets, hold no grudges, have fun, keep true to yourself. I guess that would be my best advice.

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Guest shotgun_sinner

Hello Lizzy!

Its Shotgun again. With the second instalment of posting to your topics! Hehe…

(clears throat) Lets begin shall we? Hehe

BTW please remember that this is just my belief and really don’t want to offend anyone or anything… but I LOVE sharing Christianity with the world!

1) you don’t go to Heaven just because you had to ‘put up’ with people. That is selfish and greedy and that makes you unworthy to go to Heaven.

2) the issue of transsexuality isn’t an issue at all! (that’s what I believe. So don’t quote me or anything! Lol)

LOL Not going to live in New Orleans then! LOL

Anyway…

How can you be ‘choosing’ a lifestyle? Even if you don’t believe in God, then don’t you believe that you were born a transgender? We don’t ‘choose’ this. It just happens!

Well, in order to stay out of Hell… You kinda have to go to heaven! Hehe. I don’t really know how you want this question to be answered… but I’m going to go ahead and give it a shot!

Well, To go to Hell, you have to not believe in God, believe but do nothing for your faith (ask for forgiveness for sins, pray, ect…) or Sin. Now, You’re not sinning by just being transgender. (if you want my FULL argument on this, plz PM or something! Im happy to quote passages to satisfy the Christian against the LGBT community! Hehe stirring up trouble!)

So, in my book, you have to give yourself to Christ, and act accordingly from then on! Simple! Kinda… but I digress…

Hehe, didn’t read that you didn’t believe in Hell… Maybe I got the wheels churning? :P Prolly not, but I tried…

~SS

PS-again, any questions, don’t hesitate to ask! Any question what-so-ever! Nothing is to personal or dumb when it comes to my religion!

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Guest S. Chrissie

You will suffer in the Nine Hells for your transness! Or be absorbed by the Wall Of faithless if you don't believe in god! XD Neverwinter lore (geek talk)

Anyway, I find it fascinating how people get caught up with heaven and hell so much. I mean, seriously, live life instead of worrying about who's going to hell and who's not. I am starting to believe the notion of Heaven and Hell is mostly some that was made up to "encourage" followers to get more converts and to "instill terror" in outsiders (ZOMG I am going to Hell?!?! I believe!)

Then there are some posts here that said one don't need to worry about Hell because one helped many others with their issues. It seems like we are attempting to play with some compensation thingy? That by doing good deeds, we hope to balance out our bad deeds, that good deeds > bad deeds would save us from Hell.

I find morality to be very subjective. For instance, there's a beggar is sitting on the side of the streets. He ade up his mind to find a way to chance his fate instead of depending on alms. Then you came along, feeling helpful and sympathy, you gave him alms. That shaked his determination " hmm...okay,, maybe I will wait until tomorrow then I will start finding a job" and the cycle continues. Giving alms is commonly known as a good deed, but what of the consequences of it? Of course by giving, it means you are generous, noble bla bla bla. But by you being generous, you changed someone's life for the worse. It's all a gray area to be sure :wacko:

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Guest Donna Jean

Hell?

No such place......

Just bits and pieces of it as we live......

Donna Jean

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Guest Elizabeth K

MY

I am in one of those moods and post. Silly but serious? You understand...

WHAT WISDOM!

I am floored... I am just open mouthed at these replies! I want to answer each and every one...

just...

Oh WOW

Lizzy

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Guest EricaG

Morning Lizzy,

Just logged in a little while ago and have been reading the posts. I really think that there are some pretty persuasive advice I could not have said it better.

Hugs & Kisses

Erica

PS Sorry got to go, time to walk the dog, have you ever noticed that what dog spelled backwards is? He is everywhere

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Guest Evan_J

You said you didn't want to do "going to heaven " on this thread so I'll give it to you as requested.

"I don't want to go to hell". If hell is being separated from God, and God is love then just don't be separated from what is love.

That's it. Not a long 9000 page instructions manual. Just do that.

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Guest Zenda

Kia Ora Liz,

:rolleyes: I just couldn't resist ... :D

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question:

Is Hell exothermic (gives of heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some varient.

One student however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving.

I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to hell.

With birth and death rates as they are we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume of Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase untill all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop untill Hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms.Banyan during my freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you" and we take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true.

Thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.

The student recieved the only "A" given. :lol:

Metta Jendar :)

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Guest Joanna Phipps

to add to that most religions espouse the gender binary form of marriage so there for all of the Gays and Lesbians will end up there. Those of us who refuse to live in the binary will likely end up there as will anyone who is trans... not sure who that leaves to go to heaven.

Since all have sinned at sometime in their lives

Hmm thou shalt not covet... well covetousness keeps the capitalist system going as does greed

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Guest Elizabeth K
Kia Ora Liz,

:rolleyes: I just couldn't resist ... :D

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question:

Is Hell exothermic (gives of heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some varient.

One student however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving.

I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to hell.

With birth and death rates as they are we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume of Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase untill all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop untill Hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms.Banyan during my freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you" and we take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true.

Thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.

The student recieved the only "A" given. :lol:

Metta Jendar :)

PERFECT reply - grin!

Lizzy

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Guest Joanna Phipps
Topic from HELL

PLEASE understand I am NOT ASKING how to go to heaven – there is a Holy book on that. – I want to know how to STAY OUT OF HELL.

It would seem to me that any book which teaches you how to go to heaven is also teaching you how not to be come bbq for the rest of time.

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Guest nova

Hey! It sounds like you are already in hell!

Somewhere in the universe a family of aliens is looking through a book, and the parents are pointing to a picture of the milky way galaxy, right about where our solar system is, and they're saying to their children, "if you're not good, then when you die you will go to earth!!" And the kids are saying, "Oh, no, no, not that, we'll be good, we promise".

I know . . . :wacko:

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TassieTiff

This isn't Hell?.... Why wasn't I told ? Given how cold it is here in Tasmania..... At least I would save on my heating bills... If we can put a Man on the moon, we can Make vessels that can traverse the depths of the Ocean and even dump Vista as an operating System.... Wouldn't you think in 2000 years since Jesus left the building we would Have a GPS to show us the way to heaven... ?

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Sally

I have stated in another topic (called Heaven) that there is no Hell, it is an invention of man to prod the people into line and do what their church tells them to do - "Give to the church so that we may buy a new organ or you will surely burn in Hell fire and Damnation!"

Hell is like the bogeyman - just used to scare people into line.

Love ya,

Sally

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