Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Don't Out Yourself


Guest AllisonD

Recommended Posts

Guest AllisonD

Don't out yourself

Judging by how many trans people there are I must have run into at least several during my lifetime. But I never recognized any of them except for the ones that have approached me at work to introduce themselves. Until today.

I was shopping in the grocery store today, casually wandering the aisles doing my thing. I had had casual remarks with at least four other women when I entered the baking and spices aisle. I was immediately struck by a woman examining the instant cake mixes.

She was roughly my height, my weight, at least 20 years younger. Dressed pretty much like me, jeans, tennis shoes, cotton print top. Nice hair, minor makeup. It is raining and chilly here today so I was wearing black jeans, white tennis shoes, white surplice wrap top, black fleece zip jacket, unzipped. Earrings, lipstick, hair done. Not so different from what she was wearing. But I fit in. I passed. She didn't.

As I approached, wandering down the aisle, I saw right away what it was that marked her; what made her stand out. It was how she was standing. She took up space. Weight firmly distributed on her feet, feet separated side to side in a wide stance; solid. Getting closer, she looked hard, not soft. I noticed the beard area of her face looked funny and it turned out to be foundation. Alerted now, I noticed the other signs. The same signs that I have: feet, hands, height, facial structure. It wasn't her dress, or her makeup. It was more attitude, as if attitude was a physical attribute.

She was looking at an inexpensive cake mix line, and I mentioned that I preferred this other cake mix to the one she was looking at. Now I had talked to at least four other women already in the store that very day. No big deal, we exchanged a pleasantry, a remark on prices, asked where they've moved the shredded cheese to this week. Normal stuff, a remark, a smile, possibly a greeting. Just being women going about a normal activity.

But when I mentioned about the cake mix to this woman she turned to me in total surprise that a stranger would have spoken. I told her that I thought this other brand had a much nicer texture and better flavor, and wanting some interaction I asked her is this cake for an event?

She said, "a birthday." No smile. No welcome look. Almost hostile, like I was intruding.

Of course, I was intruding. But that is not how a woman reacts. Sure of myself now, having had the opportunity to inspect her closely, I mentioned that I had had considerable success with this other package and pointed it out to her. She warmed slightly, taking the package from the shelf and looking it over. I said it is surprising how chilly it is today and the rain makes it even colder. "Everybody else is wearing a jacket, aren't you cold?"

"No," she said, "Cold doesn't affect me much."

Encouraged, as if I needed her voice and speaking style for a final clue (but I didn't), I used a technique that has been used on me. I said, "you may have no idea what I am talking about, but I think you are a sister."

It took a moment, but then I saw her eyes open wide and then relax. She quickly checked me out the same way I had checked her out. She clearly read me, finally, after I suggested she might be a sister. For the first time she smiled. She didn't say a word, but her features warmed considerably and she visibly relaxed. I introduced myself, telling her my name is Allison. She hesitated, stumbled a bit, and then said her name, "Veronica."

"So nice to meet you, and I hope I did not startle or offend you."

"No. What tipped you off?"

"Not what you think," and then I explained she actually did very well but that the way she was standing made her stand out. She is clearly new and learning how to pass and she took my gentle suggestions in the manner they were offered, as helpful hints from a sister traveling the same path.

As I left the store I felt really good about the encounter. I had seen a sister, successfully introduced myself, helped her, and no hard feelings. We did not exchange contact information but I feel sure that the next time I see her in the grocery store we will exchange smiles and maybe even a hello. A banner day, in my book.

I did not say it of course, but it is clear to me that she is pre-op and had too much between her legs to stand comfortably, properly, as if there was nothing there. And women, even strangers, are far more friendly in a safe environment like the grocery store, particularly when there is no sense of competition. And any woman would be far more sure of her name and not glance to the side when asked to come up with one.

But when I think back on it, it seems to me that only one thing marked her as special and drew my attention: it was attitude. She definitely had male attitude. So my suggestion is, check that attitude. It will out you.

Allison

Link to comment
  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Red_Lauren.

    5

  • swallow

    5

  • KayC

    4

  • Tori M

    3

Guest nymphblossom

Thank you for sharing, AllisonD!

Like working on my voice, this is something I spend a HUGE amount of time on. How I eat, drink, wave, scratch an itch, tuck my hair behind my ear, adjust my bra strap, handle my purse, put my hands on the steering wheel, hold things in my arms, the way I move, walk, sit, get into a car, slide into a booth at McDonalds, stand in line, brush against another woman or a man. I think about these things constantly when I am in public.

I am a sponge whenever I have a chance to watch other women. There are so many different styles that go with age, social position, geography, cultural background. It's hard to pick and chose things to incorporate for your own without ending up with a miss-matched eclectic set of behaviors. But I realize studying and immitating can only get me so far. There finally comes a point where you must learn to pass when actually interacting with people- casual chitchat with the cashier, body language, an easy smile, how we hold our eyes, things we say or don't say, assuming a passive demeanor around men. It is good to be aware of all of these, but I think the only way to master this is trial by fire and experience.

Blossom

Link to comment

Yes it is all about attitude, even for us guys. I've been living full time for awhile now and I wouldn't change it for the world. I do see some of my sisters around sometimes, I don't say anything just smile.

Link to comment

i wish i could actually meet a "sister" or "brother". there is one other in knoxville that i know about, but i've never met her, nor any others. cool encounter though, thats really awesome that you could help. i bet she isnt exactly hostile, just paranoid about getting caught, as i'm sure anyone here can relate to. hopefully she will be able to grow from the encounter, like you did. :)

Link to comment
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm always suprised to find quite how useful it actually is to read what MTFs have to say about their experiences. From this post, I learned that many women find it much easier to chat to strangers in shops, that men stand differently... And, something else I've forgotten, because I'm silly, but anyway. I can apply that and turn in on it's head. I should maybe stand like I've got something between my legs. Maybe I should get round to buying something to simulate that?

Also, I feel much better about the fact that I speak very briefly and monotonously in response to the pleasentries of strangers! Not to be unfriendly, but just because I tend to go about my linear busniess privately and draw my focus into the task at hand. Food shopping in particular could never be a social event like it always seemed to be for my mum. How can you stand to walk round and round the cake isle for that long? ;) Don't get me started on the toiletries isle. :rolleyes: It bears no interest for me. :P

Link to comment
Guest Joanna Phipps
I'm always suprised to find quite how useful it actually is to read what MTFs have to say about their experiences. From this post, I learned that many women find it much easier to chat to strangers in shops, that men stand differently... And, something else I've forgotten, because I'm silly, but anyway. I can apply that and turn in on it's head. I should maybe stand like I've got something between my legs. Maybe I should get round to buying something to simulate that?

Also, I feel much better about the fact that I speak very briefly and monotonously in response to the pleasentries of strangers! Not to be unfriendly, but just because I tend to go about my linear busniess privately and draw my focus into the task at hand. Food shopping in particular could never be a social event like it always seemed to be for my mum. How can you stand to walk round and round the cake isle for that long? ;) Don't get me started on the toiletries isle. :rolleyes: It bears no interest for me. :P

For some of us  it is a social event, even when I'm out with my wife(after 9 years of being together) we have now found that we actually like talking about what deals there are to be had, what looks good, what mixes we have had success with in the past. Women are just more talkative and social creatures. I guess its because we dont tend to compete the way men do; it is an art as a pre-op to stand like you have nothing between your legs but as HRT takes hold and the unwanted bits shrink it becomes much easier.

Link to comment
Guest Joanna Phipps

as they say in pool put some english on it, well dont forget the body language as was well pointed out by Allison. The wrong foot position when standing or the wrong body position walking will blow you cover faster than a counter terrorism expert.

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...
  • 5 months later...
Guest DésiréeG

behavior, i.e. attitude, will out you more than appearance, clothes or even voice ever will. (OK, 5 o'clock stubble might be worse, but only by a little)

People believe what they see. If they see a person dressed like a woman, then first impression is "that's a woman." It might be "That's an ugly/tall/fat/funny looking woman" but hey, the operative word is "woman"

people believe what they hear. If you say in your deep voice "Hi I'm Nancy" it may catch them of course, but most people will accept that because people don't except to be lied to.

But if some one watches how you move, how you walk, how you sit, how you hold yourself, how you interact with other people, they will also draw conclusions, and how you are dressed won't matter.

It's easy to get caught up in appearance when it comes to passing, but without the right attitude, it just doesn't matter.

Link to comment
Guest Donna Jean

It's easy to get caught up in appearance when it comes to passing, but without the right attitude, it just doesn't matter.

Absolutely...,

Donna Jean

Link to comment
Guest Leeny

It's easy to get caught up in appearance when it comes to passing, but without the right attitude, it just doesn't matter.

While i have almost no experiences on that matter, i do see the wisdom in your words. ;)

This little story made me feel better somehow. ^^

I realized that in some ways I am already myself and some "mistakes" made by this lady, are things that I wouldn't do. But i guess you never can be really sure, until you face such a situation yourself. If you are nervous and not really your natural self, i guess you can make mistakes by acting instead of feeling.

Link to comment
  • 3 months later...

Attitude and Voice. The 2 things that truely worry me. Will i be able to pull this off? and will I be able to sound good? Hrt and plactic surgery can fix the looks. i hope. but these 2 are gonna be tough

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...
Guest GettingThere

Very true. Attitude makes a huge difference to and for everyone. Examples:

How I've perceived people: I went to a trans meeting about two years ago at my school and there were 4 other transguys, two transwomen, and one cross-dresser. Now, one of the transwomen passed 100% of the time and yet, she triggered my "male = competition for dominance" caveman-like reaction because of her ATTITUDE. She was overly confident seeming and almost had a sort of bravado about her. In short, she acted like a man. Now, the other transwoman there did not pass well because she hadn't yet started electrolosis, had only been on hormones for a couple of months, and had a visible adam's apple. However, she had the attitude of a woman (a less than confident one, unfortunately, but still definitely female). Therefore, she triggered a different paleolithic response in me, the "female = not a threat, not competition" reaction. I felt bad for her, though, because this loud-mouth woman basically acted like the nice lady wasn't "owning" who she was or something by not being so in your face. I ended up leaving early because I could not stand the one woman but I wish I had gotten to talk with the other woman more; she was old enough to be my mom and super nice!

How I've been perceived: I have been dressed in such a way that my chest was totally concealed and had very short hair but because I'm not a confident person and I'm not good at "taking up space," I've been read as female. On the other hand, when I've been totally relaxed and in pajamas when I've opened the door or something, I've been read as male and there was no way my chest was concealed. It's very much about attitude. Of course, at the heart of the matter, it's all about stereotypes. In reality, it wasn't gender that made me not like that woman or like the other, it was what society says represents gender and so what qualities in people I like or dislike.

Link to comment
  • 4 months later...
Guest eliza.d

very true indeed. attitude is everything. my posture and body language is very girly, but not overly girly. it was easier for me to act correctly as i had years of practice trying to hide those things and adopt male posture, body language.

what outs me is my bad wig and im not confident enough to use me female voice. im practicing, but im usually so tired when i stop on the road, im a trucker for those that didnt know. i haul produce and never get enough sleep, but the hrt is helping me immensely and i know the day will come when i pass, and pass all the time.

i know about the competitive nature of natal females so thats instinct for me. i am however, not a compwtitive girl, so im usually always friendly and disarming. now that im on hrt, the people that do make me, and their insults and giggles do not affect me as much. however, when im doing business at a commercial establishment....like mcdonalds, and am treated with disrespect, i make it know to the manager in a very polite and professional manner. i usually give them a quick bio on why i look, and act the way i do, stating some basic facts about being transgender and having gender dysphoria...in an attempt to educate others so that it may be a more respectful and pleasant world for the next of us, tgs, that encounter these people.

again, i do not engage disrespectful people in passing...or even give them a reaction at all.

furthermore, be very, very careful of teenagers, especially in groups. dont let your age difference give you a false sense of security. teenagers do stupid things, as we all have when young... because they think they can get away with it or are seeking to impress their peers by showing off.

in this, they can be of the most dangerous threats to us.

i am not confrontational, or a pugilist, but in the event that i am attacked, i can and will defend myself. army training can be a useful skill, but must be used with restraint. if not, the outcome could be tragic. and that is not something you want to have to live with.

be polite, be professional, be aware. attitude IS everything.

love and hugs to all my sisters, brothers, mothers, and fathers here and everywhere withing the transgender community.

Eliza D

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
Guest Rowan19

Coming back to this post actually reminds me of someone I've seen around this past year. And while attitude makes all the difference, there are somethings that people can't always hide.

At the end of last year I stated spotting this guy around town, he acted like a guy in everyway! And looked like one in almost everyway... Heck he even had a full on beard!

But unfortunately he had one dead give away! His boobs. Now don't get me wrong, I know men can moobs but these were boobs. I know the difference, trust me. Plus, he was too skinny for moobs in the first place. Much like myself. He wore baggy tops and all that, but it was still obvious. The odd thing though is that no one else seemed to notice, his attitude had them all fooled!

I have seen him around since though, which makes me feel kind of guilty. He probably left because of me staring at him. I didn't have any idea how to react since I've never met a brother before, to be honest I think I was in shock. But now thank to my brain cells having frozen on the spot, I'll probably never get the chance to meet another. And that really sucks.

Link to comment
  • 2 months later...
Guest Kelly92

If they see a person dressed like a woman, then first impression is "that's a woman." It might be "That's an ugly/tall/fat/funny looking woman" but hey, the operative word is "woman"

so true. you can see a woman and think she looks like a manly women, but you still think of her as female.

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...
Guest Deenah

lots of good reading here. There is surly no better place to test out how your doing than at the market. Some times on a Saturday morning i will go to the farmers market downtown. There are lots of people from many different backgrounds so there is no worries about looking out of place. Places like this are filled with hard working farming women and men so they don't see you any more different then the next women. It's a good place to work on your look,also conversing with other women. I have many Saturdays on the books going there and just chatting with various vendors(mostly women)about anything and everything,and believe me when i say; once you get them talking you could be there for a wile.Anyway what I'm saying is places like this are great opportunities to learn from other women without them caring who you are or catching on to what your doing. And who knows,you mite make a few friends out of it and get invited to join for breakfast or a coffee.

Link to comment
Guest Zabyys

I never thought of attitude as a sure way to out yourself. Every time I go out in public I just act like myself.. I do things that feel natural (walk, stand, react exc..) I have had a problem with attitude and my voice though. It sure does help reading the posts here and finding out the little tips to help pass. The one thing I have learned from my own experiences is that other women are easier to talk to then men when out shopping.

Link to comment

I would have to disagree on the attitude, Yes attitude can help in setting your appearance But to much attitude and that to will out you.

I have been studying the Female behavior close to 15 years now and found that 90% of the behavior is from just being national... Females don't need to think about how there feet is set or how they walk etc etc it just happens, Mostly from there bone structure and body parts.

Sadly for us MtFs we may not have the bone structure but if we are lucky the body parts will grow. And that will help with a good 50% or more as your body will want to flow with the new added parts from a more Womanly look. But it's the Bone structure that's the key and outing most people.

sure you can try and study the walk,talk,and how a woman stands etc etc and you may just get it down.. But it does not change the harsh yet real truth..

Don't worry about not passing... because most likely "Your not" Just be Fashionable,Friendly and Kind, work with what you got and not against it. Wear things that are reasonable and not outrages, Place light make-up on and never go over board. And if anyone outs you be "proud" not ashamed Love who you are.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   4 Members, 0 Anonymous, 100 Guests (See full list)

    • Piper
    • Jet McCartney
    • April Marie
    • EasyE
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      80.5k
    • Total Posts
      767.2k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      11,942
    • Most Online
      8,356

    taxicab
    Newest Member
    taxicab
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Amyjay
      Amyjay
      (58 years old)
    2. bettyjean
      bettyjean
    3. Breanna
      Breanna
      (52 years old)
    4. Emily Ayla
      Emily Ayla
    5. JET182
      JET182
  • Posts

    • Ashley0616
      Good evening to you as well @Mmindy   That is awesome that you have support from her side. My dad has communicated with me once and that was because he was forced to. His new wife wanted to spend time with my kids. He hated me so much he was in the process of taking my rights away as a parent to my two boys. He was talking to a lawyer and I called him out on it. I don't love him at all. I'll respect him because I wouldn't be here without him but I wished I had another father. My uncles don't talk to me and unfriended me on Facebook. Almost all cousins except for two are still Facebook friends but they don't give me any support. My mom said she won't support me with that but she has said that she loves me. I have nieces and nephews that are still Facebook friends but they have yet to talk to me. I have one sister that supports me out of three. The other's disrespect me by deadnaming me. They have never called me their sister. I think for them they think it's still a phase. They don't ask questions about me being trans. I have to bring it up and on the look of their faces they don't look comfortable about it. 
    • Mmindy
      Good evening @Ashley0616,   I just got offline with HP tech support trying to get my printer tool box icon locked to my tool bar. This is one of the most important features of my printer that I like because it keeps track of ink, paper, and scanned documents. I'm diffidently not a computer geek.   I'll catch up with the other bookmarks next week. We leave to go home for the Easter Holiday with our families. Saturday with her side, and Sunday with my side. What's odd about that is I'm out to more of her side and they're reluctantly supportive. My side on the other hand are less supportive, and my sister just under me in age will not acknowledge my being there. She will be constantly moving to keep from dealing with me. I'm dead to her.   Hugs,   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋  
    • Ashley0616
      I used to follow baseball and the team I would cheer for is Boston Red Sox. My favorite player was Papi. He was an awesome guy and even held a child during the National Anthem. I haven't watched baseball for a long time. It just died off to me. 
    • Ashley0616
      That stinks that nothing transferred, and no bookmarks were saved! 
    • Ashley0616
      I'm doing patches for now but I think soon I'll go to shots because it's hard to alternate when you are doing two xx patches at once. Unless she gives me Estradiol and progesterone
    • Sally Stone
      Go Cleveland Guardians!  I love baseball and I loved playing it when I was younger.  
    • Sally Stone
      My view is we are "dependent" on government, because as a society, we are too lazy to stay actively involved. So, we let politicians do our bidding for us.  I think we'd be in a better place government wise if we policed the actions of our politicians.  We elected them; they work for us.  Sadly, we are allowing them to run amok.  We are where we are because we have chosen to let politicians make all decisions without us.  Remember "by the people, for the people?" That was the intent of our democracy.  Today, however, it is "by the politicians, for the politicians," the people be damned. 
    • Mmindy
      "Play Ball! Batter Up!" is the closing line of the National Anthem as far as I'm concerned. It's the call of the Home Plate Umpire and signals the start of the game. I grew up in the TV and Radio broadcast of the St. Louis Cardinals. Harry Caray, Jack Buck, Tim McCarver, and Mike Shannon, were the voices on my transistor radio. KMOX 1120 AM pushing 50,000 watts of Class A clear-channel non-directional signal. It could be picked up all across MO, IL, IN to the East. KS, OK, CO to the West. IA, MN to the North, and KY, TN, AR to the South. There has always been a rivalry against the Chicago Cubs, in the National League. As for the American League, I have to pull for the Kansas City Royals. I've also been a Little League Umpire, and fan of everything the Little League stands for. Going to Williamsport, PA and seeing the Little League World Series is in my top 10 things to do on my bucket list.   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • Mmindy
      Good evening everyone,   I don't think my mother ever cooked a meal that I didn't like. We also had a kitchen where mom fixed the food, dad filled your plate, and you eat it. It wasn't until our baby brother was born that we could have Pop-Tarts for snacks. Before that all snacks had to meet mom's approval, and in her opinion wouldn't prevent you from eating supper.   Well my day started off on a good note, but has become frustrating because my IT person didn't transfer my saved videos I use for teaching. Then I found out that they didn't save any of my book marks for websites I use frequently.   Best wishes, stay motivated,   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • MaeBe
      The number is relative to method of deliver, the time of the dose, and when the blood is drawn. However, I do want to keep away from DVT and other potential issues. I assume I may be getting backed down from my current dose, but my doc told me to stick with the higher dose, so? I also wonder if this has anything to do the my breast growth and mental changes that have been happening over the past few years, like I have some estrogen sensitivity so a little goes a long way or something? I don't have enough data to postulate, but who knows!   With weekly, subcutaneous, shots you expect to see big swings of serum level estradiol from shot to peak to trough. My doctor is interested in mid-week testing (for E and T levels only), which would be post-peak blood serum levels but they will be higher than trough. Most, if not all, resources I've seen online is to measure at trough (which I might do just to do it next time) along with a SHBG, LH, and other metrics.   This is from transfemscience.org for Estradiol valerate in oil, which is very spiky compared to some other estradiol combinations. It's also for intramuscular, which will have a slower uptake and is usually dosed in higher volume due to the slower absorption rate from muscles. They don't have subcutaneous numbers, which I would expect to see similar spikes but higher levels at similar doses due to the relatively higher absorption rate direct from fat.   Are you doing pills, shots, or patches? And when you do get your levels checked are you getting that done when your levels are lowest or some other time?
    • Willow
      Both of my parents were from the “North Shore” of Boston.  My mother Lynn and my father Swampscot.  They had an early 1900s Scots-Irish New England diet.  My sister and I were born in the 40s in Ohio well away from New England seafood and in an area where food was more German and Polish.  My first experience with liver and onions was during basic training.  They ate salt cod but never forced us to eat it same with oysters.  My dad ate oysters but my mother wouldn’t.  Anyone who ever ate an oyster can figure that one out.  I grew up eating lamb.  My wife won’t touch it. I love brazed ox tail, again no way. And the list goes on.  
    • KathyLauren
      My mother was German, so yes, I think it was a cultural thing.  If I'd known you when we were cleaning out my mother's place, I could have sent you her "threat jar". 
    • Adrianna Danielle
      Been taking it real easy.Another good neighbor of mine and his 15 year old son came over and cut down a couple dead trees on my property.Knew not to do it taking it easy.I had them put the wood near my fire pit in the back yard.Did it and happy where they put it.They knew I had stents put in and needed to take it easy
    • Ashley0616
      Wow that is a high number for Estradiol good grief! Testosterone levels are better than mine. I don't remember my Estradiol level but testosterone was 80. To me that is really high but it was in the two hundreds the check in before last one. 
    • Ivy
      I don't understand why this would make a difference being a "dad" I mean, as far as how they would grow.
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...