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Guest BeckyTG

Hrt Re-wiring The Brain To Full Female?

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Guest yvonne

Hello wonderful sisters,

I'm currently in therapy, diagnosed GID, for sure, for certain. I'm very comfortable with that and it has been a great relief to finally confront the source of my conflict.

Got my letter and an appt. with an experienced endo in a few weeks. I'm excited about going and am really enjoying peeling away the man slowly and allowing the real, beautiful me to emerge. I've never felt better.

Now, the question: I've done a lot of reading on the whole hormone thing and how there's an irreversible point where hormones "re-wire" your brain to female. That's fine with me, it already is as far as I'm concerned.

My basic aptitude is very strong in math and off the charts in critical thinking skills and concepts. I'm a real problem-solver and I really love doing that. So, the question is, is that aspect of my brain likely to change? Will I suffer diminished ability to visualize concepts in my head, lose some of my math skills and have reduced problem solving abilities?

Yvonne

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Guest N. Jane

I would say it unlikely that you will loose those abilities. You may even have them enhanced.

My thinking was always pretty femme but there is little doubt it became more so through my teens (on hormones). After transition/SRS (age 24) I did notice my thinking became even more femme (or maybe just totally devoid of any maleness?) but in the 35 years since, my abilities to figure out problems has only increased, though the way I get to a solution is totally different than the men I work with. I have always been a top troubleshooter and remain so. There are definite advantages to female thinking ;)

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Guest Donna Jean

Yvonne......

NAwwwww.....

Your past skills remain.....

A good example is Lynn Conway...computer engineer...and Transwoman...Google her and read some of her accomplishments...

oh,, never mind, I'll give you a link...scroll down and read all of the successful Transwomen's successes!

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSs...Ssuccesses.html

Check it out....ok?

Love

Donna Jean

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Guest nova

I was given a copy of "protocols for hormonal reassignment of gender" by my gender clinic and they mention some possible psychosocial effects (that's what they call them) after hormonal treatment in both MTF and FTM patients such as "changes in spatial, verbal, and memory abilities." That's all I've heard of, but those protocols are from 2004, so they're not up to date. :)

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Guest Sherry7620

The flavor of your thoughts may change, but hrt isn't going to make you stupid or impeed your ability to think logically. You may however appreciate your natural ability in a more fitting manner.

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Guest yvonne
I would say it unlikely that you will loose those abilities. You may even have them enhanced.

My thinking was always pretty femme but there is little doubt it became more so through my teens (on hormones). After transition/SRS (age 24) I did notice my thinking became even more femme (or maybe just totally devoid of any maleness?) but in the 35 years since, my abilities to figure out problems has only increased, though the way I get to a solution is totally different than the men I work with. I have always been a top troubleshooter and remain so. There are definite advantages to female thinking ;)

Jane,

I particularly appreciate your comments, based on your experience. Female thinking, eh? That's a fascinating subject, as I seem to arrive that things totally differently than others when it comes to problem solving. My solutions seem to "come out of left field" :D . I'm somewhat of an anomaly in my Industry and I'll bet this is why.

I have both men and women as customers and I've always seemed to really work well with women. Well, duh!

So, why the heck didn't I ever meet you in the 60's? :lol:

Thanks for being here. You're an inspiration that I need.

Yvonne......

NAwwwww.....

Your past skills remain.....

A good example is Lynn Conway...computer engineer...and Transwoman...Google her and read some of her accomplishments...

oh,, never mind, I'll give you a link...scroll down and read all of the successful Transwomen's successes!

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSs...Ssuccesses.html

Check it out....ok?

Love

Donna Jean

Oh Donna Jean,

This is REALLY what I need. Self perception is very important and far too many of us girls tend to think of ourselves as second-class citizens or something. I know for a fact that that perception kept the girl inside me bottled up far too long.

Well, the cork is out of the bottle now and this girl ain't goin' back in.

Thank you for the inspiration, as well. You two have me going today.

Your little Sister,

Yvonne

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Sally

Yvonne,

I am going to give you my theory on all of this - it is just mine but I have to believe that it is true because of the time lines involved.

Sally's Theory:

I believe that our brains are already the other gender - that is the actual nature of our condition - we have trained our thinking and actions to adhere to the acceptable social models of our physical gender by suppressing our emotions and learning to participate in activities that actually held no interest for us just to fit in - unnecessary because most activities including sports and automotive are not the bastion of maleness that they used to be as fashion design and knitting have become relaxing hobbies for men - once we admit that we are transsexual and decide that we must transition the barriers that we have placed around 'those areas' of our brains are torn down - I had transitioned to an emotional mess long before starting HRT because I allowed myself to be me, no hormones are needed to 'change' your brain, if that was so we wouldn't need to transition - there would be no such thing as transgendered but there is and it is the way the brain is formed and the parts that are most active and the hormones while changing the body are not as involved in your brain functions as you think you could get almost the same effect from a placebo.

Summation of theory:

As far as your brain is concerned you are what you are, you remain what you were because that was always you.

If you don't believe how much I changed before the HRT ask Donna Jean she remembers - I have been sobbing uncontrollably on her shoulders for over a year now and I am just three months on HRT.

You don't re-wire a brain - you redesign the body to match.

Love ya,

Sally

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Guest Steven22

Very possible this is a YMMV type thing. Just finished talking about this topic today in my bio anthro class, they did a study on a MTF using IQ tests before starting HRT and 1 year later, they reported a reversal of typical male/female intellectual characteristics, though did not specify much <_< this was done in 1999-2000.

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Guest yvonne
Very possible this is a YMMV type thing. Just finished talking about this topic today in my bio anthro class, they did a study on a MTF using IQ tests before starting HRT and 1 year later, they reported a reversal of typical male/female intellectual characteristics, though did not specify much <_< this was done in 1999-2000.

Steven,

That's interesting and consistent with some of what I've read. Do you have any links, authors, publications or whatever that might lead me to more information on this?

Thanks,

Yvonne

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Guest DisDwarf

Feminists say womyn can do everything men can do if they want to:) There have been lots of female mathematicians, engineers, scientists, etc. Ask your therapist, but don't worry

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno

I don't think your "brain" really changes because of HRT. I'm no expert, but I think by the time you're 20 or so, the brain is fully mature. There are definitely differences between male and female brains, but I think they're differences we're born with and aren't sex-hormone-induced (correct me if I'm wrong).

You might end up thinking differently, but only because hormones play with your emotions. I doubt you'll lose your problem-solving abilities.

I suggest you look up Lynn Conway. She's a transwoman with a computer revolution named after her (the Mead & Conway revolution). It takes immense brainpower to do what she did.

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Guest nymphblossom

Yes, your brain really changes on HRT. I can't put my finger on the link to the medical abstract, but the research clearly showed that estrogen measurably REDUCES brain volume in genetic males and testosterone INCREASES brain volume in a genetic females.

A year of continued estrogen use and chemical processes and brain waves will remain in a female pattern. The emotional and personality changes are irreversible.

And estrogen is as addictive as any drug available. Once your body becomes accustomed to the hormone, it takes some time before it can produce significant quantities of testosterone again resulting in acute depression, lethargy, and irritability. But these symptoms pale in comparison to the effects of the reintroduction of male hormones into your system. Testosterone will cause sudden intense aggression, belligerence, and the driven compulsions that characterize the male reality. These will be nearly impossible to handle once your brain has lost the coping mechanisms it learned in adolescence.

Blossom

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Guest DisDwarf
estrogen measurably REDUCES brain volume in genetic males and testosterone INCREASES brain volume in a genetic females.

I've come accross this info, I think the link to the research paper can be found from an HRT-related Wikipedia article. Now, I believe female and male brains have the same capabilities, but I've also read that female brains have higher neural interconnectivity than male brains, even though the female brains are overall somewhat smaller than male brains... and I'm thinking whether it's this interconnectivity that gives women their special intuition and "big picture" thinking ability.

I wonder whether MTF brains already have this female neural interconnectivity, and whether estogen will develop it if it doesn't exist from birth or increase it otherwise. Do you have more trust in your intuition after HRT?

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Guest Donna Jean

Very interesting piece, Blossom....

It is finding that sex hormones affect the physical size of certain parts of the male and female brain...

Now, I wonder ...to what degree does that influence the thinking/emotions/actions of the person?

How does it make an MTF more like a natal woman?

I'd like to know more about this subject...Many MTF's (for instance) swear that the HRT had changed them in a certain way....I wonder what things are just our willingness to believe it, and what things are due to our brain actually changing?

Interesting stuff...

Thanks, Honey....

Donna Jean

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Shannonline

I'm considering hypnotherapy as the subconscious, the feeling mind I believe could be responsible for the repression of my (female) emotions at an early age. I've read books on it and it makes sense. I'd say I've always been quite sensitive and introverted and always withdrew into myself far too easy.. keeping my feelings under lock and key and it seems like my subconscious being so over protective as it is has erased the memory of where I hid the key. Or something like that. It seems for some TSs they are happy and themselves quite easily and don't need much effort to get in contact with their true emotions but for others it takes more work to break down the walls.

MY ex-gf is much the same she's always felt repressed and unable to express herself so it's not just TSs.. she's considering hypnotherapy as well, I might let her be the guinea pig lol!

I believe HRT does change the brain in a physical way but a lot of it is up to us, much like positive thinking can change the way you think and see things.

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Guest Joanna Phipps

Ive never been one for all of the details, but pulling things into a big picture summary is one thing I have always been good at and I fought so hard to not be a sensitive lil boy just to be the man my father wanted. That was a role that suited me not.

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno
Yes, your brain really changes on HRT. I can't put my finger on the link to the medical abstract, but the research clearly showed that estrogen measurably REDUCES brain volume in genetic males and testosterone INCREASES brain volume in a genetic females.

A year of continued estrogen use and chemical processes and brain waves will remain in a female pattern. The emotional and personality changes are irreversible.

And estrogen is as addictive as any drug available. Once your body becomes accustomed to the hormone, it takes some time before it can produce significant quantities of testosterone again resulting in acute depression, lethargy, and irritability. But these symptoms pale in comparison to the effects of the reintroduction of male hormones into your system. Testosterone will cause sudden intense aggression, belligerence, and the driven compulsions that characterize the male reality. These will be nearly impossible to handle once your brain has lost the coping mechanisms it learned in adolescence.

Blossom

Wow; you learn something new every day. That's kind of scary and exciting at the same time. Does anyone know this form experience? Does anyone feel like their brains changed? And does anyone know how long it takes? I'm not particularly feminine and if I started an RLE right now I'd either be a peculiar girl or totally faking it (not that there's anything wrong with having quirks). Does it just change how you think and treat other people, or how you act too? How you move? How you protect yourself?

I think I have a fairly androgynous brain. I joke with my brother that he's both more masculine and more feminine than me and I'm like some alien outside the gender box.

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Shannonline

I've noticed a few little changes so far but I get the feeling that they happens sooooo slowly over such a long period of time that you don't notice them as much. Like the other day I was at a friends house and my body language and the way I moved my hands when I spoke was different (I didn't notice until I thought about it when I got home). Also we were talking about guys and what kind of guys are hot and I noticed it was less of the physical and more of the personality not saying guys are general ugly but you know :P

Also I was telling my friend about a movie I recently watching and she asked what happened in the movie.. and I found myself explaining it in a way that was more about the the people and how they interacted and what happened between them on an emotional level instead of discussing the movie in more a visual/physical way like what they did, the places they went etc. This morning I went on a rollercoaster ride of emotions before I even got out of bed, I had a few tears and I was only half awake. But yeah small subtle changes that can sometimes be hard to notice or put your finger on, I'm actually forgetting what I used to feel and think of as a guy and I'm only 7months into HRT lol! I guess when it's your feelings/emotions that change it can be hard to explain.. it's just something you feel, it seems very subjective to me.

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Guest Elizabeth K

Personal experience?

14 months HRT on February 10

YES - you brain rewires. It is a subtle new way to use of what you know and understand, my opinion anyway. I am a design professional and it has NOT inhibited my abilities in any way that I can see. It seems to have enhanced some things such as my negotiating skills - perhaps the loss of aggression triggered that.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

BUT

Something happened! Women now talk to me like I was one of them. I KNOW I am in a more female thinking pattern that I was before. Strangely, this helps my relationship with men too. Prior to the HRT I was not that well accepted by men, probably because after a manly first presentation I would almost always slip into a female thought process. It confused them. Now I stay female all the time.

Apparently men respond to that. It's fun to know what they are thinking because I once thought they think. Helps me run circles around them if I want to do that. (I usually don't want to - I am not that competative anymore).

So all that!

Well here is what I think happens. We are all wired as humans - male, female, in between, either, neither, both? BUT women have a different biological purpose - to birth and protect the next generation. We women are wired by our hormones to hide and watch. Men are gided by hormones to 'jump in front of the train' to protect us. They are hardwired to be competative and 'bulletproof.'

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So when I began my HRT my brain switched directions somewhat. I was already partially there because of my transgender history.

Suddenly the world became 'interconnected' and everything started to be affected by everything else - something I swear was already there, but I never noticed!

And I cry at unfairness - sob at injustice - mourn over the terrible things that happen to people! My empathy runs rampant! I cannot help it now!

My thinking now includes the condition of others of my kind, my girlfriends, female relatives, and even casual aquaintances if they are female like me. We share notes. We are in a conspiring mode - to survive in a brash male world!

We protect ourselves and our children. We even watch jealously over the men we chose to provide for and protect us!

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There you are! Femaleness in the brain chemistry! SUPERIOR QUALITY, we who are the true center of the survival of humanity! Poor males - just don't have a clue...

[My apologies to the FTM]

Lizzy

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Guest Joanna Phipps
Wow; you learn something new every day. That's kind of scary and exciting at the same time. Does anyone know this form experience? Does anyone feel like their brains changed? And does anyone know how long it takes? I'm not particularly feminine and if I started an RLE right now I'd either be a peculiar girl or totally faking it (not that there's anything wrong with having quirks). Does it just change how you think and treat other people, or how you act too? How you move? How you protect yourself?

I think I have a fairly androgynous brain. I joke with my brother that he's both more masculine and more feminine than me and I'm like some alien outside the gender box.

For me, as the testosterone dropped i lost 98% of my anger, nearly all of my desire to argue and fight (would rather talk or cry now), I have been told by others that i'm much happier and easier to get along with.

Dont try to fit with society's definition of what a woman is and does, there is enough variation in the cisgendered female population that as long as you can be fairly convincing you will do ok.

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Guest Kaitlyn88

I actually find that I argue more after hormones. Before I would just do what my step mother would say, I thought she was wrong but I just went along with it like the men in the family does. Now I side with my sister and get into arguments with her all the time because what she is doing is hurting the people I care about and can't just let it go. I also feel more competitive then before, although now it's about my looks where before it was mostly women since I wasn't into sports. Maybe that is because I never cared much for money so I just never was into any of the things men compete for other then women. I don't care for competing for women any more though, now I just see them as another person like me, nothing really special like before and if we happen to get along in that way that would be nice. Besides I don't think I'll even have intimate relations again until after SRS. I guess now it's like I'm competing against women instead of for them.

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Guest samantha cupcakes

I've noticed a few little changes so far but I get the feeling that they happens sooooo slowly over such a long period of time that you don't notice them as much. Like the other day I was at a friends house and my body language and the way I moved my hands when I spoke was different (I didn't notice until I thought about it when I got home). Also we were talking about guys and what kind of guys are hot and I noticed it was less of the physical and more of the personality not saying guys are general ugly but you know :P

Also I was telling my friend about a movie I recently watching and she asked what happened in the movie.. and I found myself explaining it in a way that was more about the the people and how they interacted and what happened between them on an emotional level instead of discussing the movie in more a visual/physical way like what they did, the places they went etc. This morning I went on a rollercoaster ride of emotions before I even got out of bed, I had a few tears and I was only half awake. But yeah small subtle changes that can sometimes be hard to notice or put your finger on, I'm actually forgetting what I used to feel and think of as a guy and I'm only 7months into HRT lol! I guess when it's your feelings/emotions that change it can be hard to explain.. it's just something you feel, it seems very subjective to me.

im 7 months as well, and i agree.... i know i think differently and it shows, im 19 i remember in school i used to stick by myself in the back of the class and never talk to anyone, i really had no friends and i didnt want any, i just didnt like people. But ever since HRT ive found myself to be more responsive to people and i actually feel like i need friends, people that did know me even slightly say i act more immature lol..but i feel like a giddy 16 year old, its okay because most of my friend are 16,17,18 etc. e and 2 of my friends just had a mall adventure yesterday riding the lawnmowers (not really XD) and taking pictures of guys without them knowing it, we're profesional stalkers lmao j/k. But yeah i think you get the point :)

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CyndiRae

I liked reading this older thread this morning, I know Becky has long moved on, however I felt inspried to chime in here with my experiences so far after almost 10 months of HRT.

It's been one of the most valuable experiences of a lifetime for me. I share some of Sally's views above, and I feel I always had a feminine bias. I formed deep relationships in the male world long before starting. I have been considered "best friends" with many men, I was seen as a leader in my circle of male friends. Now I notice even more feelings that I have for others with the increase of Es in my brain. Relationships always mattered, but now I place an even higher value on relationships. I enjoy what I perceive as an enhanced intuition and sensitivity. I definately empathize with others more, my manager even commented on my empathy in my lastest performance review, it was very validating to hear this description come back to me. I definately feel less anger and tension since starting, my patience with others and the world in general definately improved, I feel more connected to the world in a sense, less at odds with it. I feel I am more approachable, I have experienced a noticable uptick in strangers initiating conversation with me. Perhaps I appear more comfortable and approachable to others, I smile a lot now. I am more disinterested than ever before about weighty global topics of doom and gloom, war, politics, money, materialism, professional ball sports, I watch or read less "news" than ever before, perhaps it's just because it's mostly all bad news they report anyway, and there is very little reason to watch or read it anymore, I am just sick of it. I cry when there is a story that reports human suffering and violence so common today (random shooting, woman killed in Pioneer Square, downtown Seattle), I am just so tired of bad news and politics, would much rather focus my time on positive themes and interpersonal relationships. My approach to music and the bands I play in have changed for the better. I feel more sensitivity on my bass strings with my fingers, and my sense of dynamics perhaps enhanced (subjective). My feelings for animals enhanced, I talk to animals and birds more now, I feel their emotions, I enjoy seeing a smile on a dog's face for example. When I would go out for a walk, I used to have dogs bark at me, now this year that seems to have gone away. If a dog approaches me that is loose, I can just look at him and there seems to be less aggression, animals sense this. I really don't know if my brain has been re-wired full female as the topic suggests and of course this is all highly subjective. I do know that I have never felt better, and HRT has solved some real issues for me, it seems to have cured some of my own personal "male problems" :P

Cindy -

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Guest Lacey Lynne

Cindy, it's all good!

It's simply the best, isn't it? You bet! So, so happy for you!

Actually, weighty world issues still both me, because I do medical work in the trenches, and "the way of the world" is completely analogous to a majorly malignant cancer running amok in our world. If The System does not change, everybody's children and grandchildren (I have no kids or grandkids) will live in a hell on Earth we cannot even imagine. The Powers That Be are purposefully constructing it right before our eyes, and hardly anybody believes it or sees it.

Anyway, ...

On the bright side, yes! Wait until you're much further down the way with your transition. Sunny days are ahead, girl! Bask in their warmth!

Kudos Bigtime :thumbsup: Lacey Lynne

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