No-op And/or No-ho Forum

[Guest Lynnx]

This is a question to those who i made this forum for * , and a presenting as the other sex, either sometimes or all the times.

How important is it that you pass as the other sex? Or if you can't pass, how do you resolve you feelings, being that this is "forever" because you've chosen not to medically change your body?

[Guest Lynnx]

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* This Forum is for people who are transgender, identifed with the gender of the other sex, and are not going to medically change their body (or just change it a little bit, but not "all the way)", and those who are considering living this way. For more info see http://nonop.zxq.net/why.html

(silly me; didn't know that a signiture can't do codes)

[Guest Liam]

I identify as a genderqueer guy, and the primary reason that I am currently not on hormones is because I want to maintain a somewhat androgynous appearance. However, it is very important to me that I am read as male, at least most of the time. Occasionally being read as female isn't the worst thing in the world, but if it happened more frequently, it would bother me a lot. I tend to pass as male most of the time, albeit as a 15-year-old boy (I'm 20). With the amount that I pass right now, I'm comfortable not being on hormones.

But I'm open to the idea of taking hormones if, one or two or ten years down the line, I'm not happy with the way I look or am being read. If I do someday take hormones, it'll likely be on a low dose so that changes occur more slowly, and I'd probably stop after some short-ish period of time.

[Guest DisDwarf]

I'm a female trapped in a male body, have got somewhat androgynous personality (but i start to doubt even that, maybe the 'andro' part or most of it is just the fake male persona i had built), no HRT yet, no cross-dressing yet... i currently gender-queer by mixing male clothing with women's bags and accessories, hand nail polish and shaving too.

in terms of "social gender dysphoria" my problem could be solved simply if there was a third gender role of "females in male bodies" or "androgyne females in male bodies" perhaps something like the Bisu in indonesia (distinct-clothed "fifth-gender" people of any body who had the right to mix with women and men alike). OK, I've got a male body and I'm a lesbian, but this doesn't mean I shouldn't be accepted as a female by society. It's society's problem it doesn't accept women in male bodies, not my problem. If there was a gender role for male-bodied trapped women then I could have girl friends and go shopping with them and talk with them like normal women not like man and woman (no matter attraction, ok i admit im a lesbian but attraction doesnt mean we cant be friends and talk like the same gender). We could share beauty tips, go to hairdresser together, or mix with them in feminist or lesbian events. Oh, and talk about all the bad things men do, too! LOL

but this gender role doesnt exist in society now. So, to relieve my "social gender dysphoria" I feel a need to transition and change my body. But this isn't just the only reason for thinking about transition, I've got some "body gender dysphoria" as well. But society could help me very much if my "social gender dysphoria" could be relieved by accepting me as a woman no matter my body.

[Guest ricka]

I am passable as a female. In fact as I mentioned in another post I feel more passable as a female than as my cisgender--especially if I am wearing a low cut dress.

What really desensitized me socially about being cross-gendered is that I love to swim and hike and I have female breasts that are too big to hide unless I wrapped my chest with duck-tape! Of course when I am swimming I go topless but then I started taking my shirt off when I was hiking in hot weather, then I started wearing loose fitting tank tops when I went out shopping/running errands during hot weather, deciding I was not gonna try and camoflauge what nature endowed me with. I got to the point where I figured if people had a problem with my breasts it wasn't gonna change what I do in a day. And besides people who are a different gender than their genital-gender have been around since forever. Well all of these factors were really the beginning to my transitioning to live as my true gender. Transitioning for me then has more to do with just being myself and not who I never was.

Ricka

[Guest Lynnx]

And now for me. I'm 43. No-op;no-ho. I identify as a person with a boys soul in a female body. i believe i was created with a soul that is more "boy" than "girl", but not that much more, so i'm kinda androgenous.... genderqueer. I think "two-spirit" is a good term.

I don't pass. On the second glance everyone can see that i'm a female. That's with my hair cut short and my mosquito bites bound. There is the occasion where the store clerk doesn't take a second glance and says, 'Finding everything alright SIR?" It does make me feel good. And there was once an old codger i met on a job site once who wouldn't have known... he came from a different era. But everyone else looks and thinks "odd looking woman"

I've had to make peace with that. it's not easy. but i really feel that my social dysphoria really outweighs my body dysphoria, just like DisDwarf says. So i've been trying to find a way to explain myself to other people in a way that other people who have no clue about these things can understand. Once i have explained it, it's up to them how they want to treat me.

My spouse and my child know, and i feel that they treat me like a third gender. They are both male and not quick to want to include me as the same as them. But they understand that i'm not going to play "girl" anymore, at all, ever.

The bathrooms present a problem for me in that *I* do not feel comfortable going in a communal male bathroom, but sometimes girls going into a female bathroom are those who only take that first glance, so i make some girls nervous.

But i like what Ricka said: "Transitioning for me then has more to do with just being myself and not who I never was. " For me it's just being honest with people I meet.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

My transition has been about leaving the masks, the lies, and the wrong attitudes behind. It is about being who I am and showing the world that I am finally comfortable in my own skin

[gennee]

I pass rather well. I've been hit on numerous times so I must be doing something right. If I'm read it doesn't faze me one way or the other.

Gennee

[Guest Debs]

As I said in the other thread, I pass fairly well, mainly due to being short and slight and having fairly non-descript, asexual features (not, I hasten to add, pretty features LOL). It is a big deal to me to pass. Being accepted as female really makes me feel right, but not enough that I want to have a major operation. My own body image isn't distorted by my male bits, and the SRS surgery is basically a cosmetic procedure that has no real effect on whether you pass or not. If I didn't pass so readily, it may be less of a big deal and I might take a more "stuff you, this is who I am!" attitude. as it stand though I tend to blend into the background most of the time

[Guest Elizabeth K]

INCONCEIVABLE {Princess Bride}

Lizzy

[Guest Natalie Foster]

I pass 100% of the time. I have never had anyone ever make reference to me being a man. The "only" thing that has ever been said to me is that I have a deeper than usual voice for a girl. I do not sound like a man, just my female voice is not as high as I wish it was. I have a strange walk too; that I am not happy with, but oh well that is just me I guess. So, it doesn't really matter much to me because I have not really had any issues with being associated with a man. Of course, I did everything in private to the point I could no longer hide the fact (Hormones, changing my name, birth certificate, drivers license, seeing a therapist, endocrinologist, changing my college records, court records for my child, and those things). I did not go out into society until I was fairly certain that I could pass as a woman.

I did not want to expose myself to the hate, verbal abuse, or discrimination associated with being a transsexual in the middle of transition. Needless to say, on some level we will all have to suffer because of this choice in one way or the other. I go to a Catholic University so, it was a little off going in to the admin building with the required certified legal documents to change my name on my college transcripts and to change the gender id on my record. That is just one example. It may make you feel uncomfortable going into a crowded court room and talking to the judge in front of 30 people as to why you want your name changed. It has to be done though. I think I was fortunate with being blessed with a feminine body before HRT. I lack all of the physical identifiers associated with being a man. I was blessed with lower than normal testosterone and higher than normal estrogen, maybe that has something to do with it. In any event, I was fortunate and I know that. I have known transsexual women that have not been so fortunate and they have to fight every step of the way. Brave girls...to say the least, role models at any degree...

[Guest Lynnx]

As I said in the other thread, I pass fairly well, mainly due to being short and slight and having fairly non-descript, asexual features (not, I hasten to add, pretty features LOL). It is a big deal to me to pass. Being accepted as female really makes me feel right, but not enough that I want to have a major operation. My own body image isn't distorted by my male bits, and the SRS surgery is basically a cosmetic procedure that has no real effect on whether you pass or not. If I didn't pass so readily, it may be less of a big deal and I might take a more "stuff you, this is who I am!" attitude. as it stand though I tend to blend into the background most of the time

People with a hairlip or any other disfigurement will want surgery. Being born in the wrong sex is a disfigurement. People are very concerned about the way they look, and how other people look. It really shouldn't be this way....we should be able to see deeper... to the soul. But we can't.

I really believe that God wanted it to be this way. Maybe it's like a challenge. But i don't know, and that's just *my* spiritual beliefs.

SRS surgury changes peoples perception of you. And if you look in the mirror, it changes your perception. And if you care about about what other people think then their perception changes you. In that way SRS changes you into what you want to be.

But that be said, it doesn't change you in other ways... it doesn't change your soul. I know that my soul is more "boy" than "girl". I don't pass, so i guess my attitude is more like "stuff you, this is who I am!" But as much as i try, I do continue to care about what other people think. I think that is my challenge.

Please understand, to whoever is reading this and doesn't agree.... this is only *my* challenge and not yours. We each have our own paths.

[Guest Debs]

People with a hairlip or any other disfigurement will want surgery. Being born in the wrong sex is a disfigurement. People are very concerned about the way they look, and how other people look. It really shouldn't be this way....we should be able to see deeper... to the soul. But we can't.

I really believe that God wanted it to be this way. Maybe it's like a challenge. But i don't know, and that's just *my* spiritual beliefs.

SRS surgury changes peoples perception of you. And if you look in the mirror, it changes your perception. And if you care about about what other people think then their perception changes you. In that way SRS changes you into what you want to be.

But that be said, it doesn't change you in other ways... it doesn't change your soul. I know that my soul is more "boy" than "girl". I don't pass, so i guess my attitude is more like "stuff you, this is who I am!" But as much as i try, I do continue to care about what other people think. I think that is my challenge.

Please understand, to whoever is reading this and doesn't agree.... this is only *my* challenge and not yours. We each have our own paths.

I don't intend to offend anyone who has or is going to have SRS, but it is about personal body image. Being accepted as someone of a particular gender really doesn't have anything to do with what's between your legs. I agree being born in the wrong gender is a disfigurement, and it is important, but SRS is cosmetic. If there was a way of becoming a woman completely, with functional ovaries and a womb, I think I would have transitioned myself years ago as I really would have loved to have been a mum. That's not to say I only believe that a woman's place in society is to breed, God forbid, but to function fully as a woman in the community, from my particular viewpoint, you don't need a vagina.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I don't intend to offend anyone who has or is going to have SRS, but it is about personal body image. Being accepted as someone of a particular gender really doesn't have anything to do with what's between your legs. I agree being born in the wrong gender is a disfigurement, and it is important, but SRS is cosmetic. If there was a way of becoming a woman completely, with functional ovaries and a womb, I think I would have transitioned myself years ago as I really would have loved to have been a mum. That's not to say I only believe that a woman's place in society is to breed, God forbid, but to function fully as a woman in the community, from my particular viewpoint, you don't need a vagina.

UMMMM

I have wrestled with this for YEARS! I have worked with my therapist on this. She always says we trans have 'options' and we shouild progress to our comfort zone. I took a long hard look at what that meant, and how it applies to me.

SO

Everyone here that is transgender, MTF and FTM - we need to think this out.

WHAT IS YOUR COMFORT ZONE!

Hey wait! A gooood TOPIC!

My comfort zone - I am a woman! But I also want to look like one, act like one, be seen as one - and I will do ANYTHING to get there! If they figure out a uterus implant - I WANT THAT! I want to have children that I carry to term and birth! (won't happen I guess) I want to have a man who loves me as a woman! (But I fell in love again - looks like I love women rather than men!) Still - I want the penetration like I should have been destinied to have from the beginning.

Maybe thats too much information. And I agree a person does not have to have a vagina to be a woman! My wife has had her overies and uterius out for 35 years! She is totally a woman. BUT she loves to be pleasured! I appreciate that.

She would not like to have a penis - and I don't want one either.

My SRS is now getting set up! I love the fact I will soon be what I was supposed to be from the minute of my conception!

WOW - strong emotions, Elizabeth!

Just me!

[Guest Debs]

Everyone here that is transgender, MTF and FTM - we need to think this out.

WHAT IS YOUR COMFORT ZONE!

That is beautifully put in 5 words what would probably take me a couple of hundred to say

My SRS is now getting set up! I love the fact I will soon be what I was supposed to be from the minute of my conception!

That really is something to celebrate, and it always makes me feel warm inside when I speak to girls who have had successful SRS knowing how happy they are now. It's just well outside my particular comfort zone

[Guest Liam]

I don't intend to offend anyone who has or is going to have SRS, but it is about personal body image. Being accepted as someone of a particular gender really doesn't have anything to do with what's between your legs. I agree being born in the wrong gender is a disfigurement, and it is important, but SRS is cosmetic. If there was a way of becoming a woman completely, with functional ovaries and a womb, I think I would have transitioned myself years ago as I really would have loved to have been a mum. That's not to say I only believe that a woman's place in society is to breed, God forbid, but to function fully as a woman in the community, from my particular viewpoint, you don't need a vagina.

To an extent, I agree with you. But from what I understand, there are essentially two types of gender dysphoria - social dysphoria and body dysphoria. If you experience only or mostly social dysphoria, it may be that you don't feel much of a need to medically transition, or you may do so because it will help you look more like a typical man or woman and be accepted as such and thus may help alleviate your social dysphoria. However, for people who have significant amounts of body dysphoria, it's a little different. These people feel uncomfortable in their own skin, and it's not just about how their bodies look or are perceived by society. I, for example, don't have a ton of body dysphoria, but man, my chest is terrible. Even if we lived in a genderless society, or even if it were possible to bind it really well 24/7 without constant discomfort, such that nobody would know that I had typically-female breasts, I would still not be okay with it at all. It's an absolute for me - my chest has got to go. And it has little to do with functioning as a man in the world and much more to do with my relationship towards my own body.

Most trans people experience some degree of both these categories of dysphoria, though some may feel one much more strongly than the other. But it's not fair to discount some trans people's experiences and desires for medical transition as purely cosmetic and thereby unimportant, just as it's not fair for those who medically transition to invalidate or trivialize the experiences of people who don't, for whatever reason, transition medically.

[Guest nymphblossom]

I need to present as my female self in public. It affirms who I am and breathes life into me. I have an androgynous physique, am waiting for the results of my DNA test to see if I am intersexed, and have never had trouble passing as a woman in public. I suspect this puts me squarely in the socially dysphoric camp. But I will not hurt the ones I love or give up the life I spent nearly 50 years building to become the woman I am inside, and I am not convinced I would be better off if I did. Life is a compromise and I believe I am a two soul in the truest sense of the word. Not male, not female. Two soul. My female self has simply been denied so long that the pendulum finally had to swing to find the balance.

Blossom