Transgender Movement At A Crossroads: Poll On Hrc

[Guest]

Here's an interesting article and opinion about the TRansgender Communities fight against HRC http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=col...3=&id=54944 that should spark a debate. Some say we should go it alone without them. Others say we should stick together. There are several articles about this in the Transgender news on the site. http://www.lauras-playground.com/trans_news.htm

Intrestingly my email is pretty much evenly split when it comes to the Transgender Community making peace with HRC. What do you think?

Laura

[Guest Leah1026]

I think the HRC can not be trusted period. They clearly don't get the implications of what they've done (unnecessarily split the community over a flawed bill that will NEVER see the light of day with Bush in the White House) At last count we had over 300 organizations that supported us. The HRC stands alone and IMO should be shunned for throwing us under the bus.

I am still VERY, VERY angry at the HRC, Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi over this whole fiasco.

X infinity (well almost)

Three cheers for Rep Tammy Baldwin for standing up for us.

[Guest savagedm]

what happened? I have been busy with my nose up my industrializing nations term projects so domestic news has not really been much of a concern for me haha

[Guest Leah1026]

what happened? I have been busy with my nose up my industrializing nations term projects so domestic news has not really been much of a concern for me haha

Looooonnnnggggg story.

1969: Stonewall Rebellion. This is the beginning of the modern gay/lesbian movement. But guess who started it all? Trans people, but that inconvenient truth is lost on many today.

1970's: First attempt at getting an ENDA (Employment Non Discrimination Act) passed. We were the first casualties of this effort and thrown under the bus.

Late 70's: We (MtF's) become vilified by Janice Raymond and other radical feminists.

80's: A bad time for us period.

Early 90's: We start to re-organize and start assimilating back into the community, which adds the letter T, as in GBLT.

1994: The second betrayal. As a new effort is being made to create a new version ENDA, gets who gets thrown under the bus again?

Late 90's-early 00's: We reorganize again. The internet allows us to do this like never before. We make ourselves heard!

Jan 2007: After intense lobbying we are included in the new proposed ENDA legislation. We are promised that we will stick together no matter what. We give lots of time and money to the effort and we testify before Congress.

Setp 26, 2007: Black Wednesday. In the days before ENDA will finally be formally introduced rumors fly that we're going to be thrown under the bus again. In the spring Rep Barney Frank (openly gay) had been made the chief sponsor of our bill. He had a history of transphobia, but people thought he was more educated now. WRONG. He announces that we are to be thrown under the bus AGAIN. His plan is to split ENDA in two (a gay part and a trans part) and submit both bills separately. He is immediately denounced by us and over 300 GBLT oprganization nationwide. Because of the ruckus the vote is delayed, but ultimately the spilt is formalized (2 separate bills). It's clear that Rep Frank and Rep Pelosi don't care about us, they just want to pass something as resume fodder. The new gay only ENDA is filled with loopholes that will make it ineffective, but our opponents won't be swayed. The fact that the bill will never be signed by Bush doesn't sway them either. It was a HUGE mess that was totally ignored by the press. It makes me sooooo angry.

More here:

http://blog.glad.org/2007/10/weakened-enda...s-no-sense.html

http://www.unitedenda.org/

ENDA Blog starts here:

http://endablog.wordpress.com/2007/10/page/9/

To sum up: It was an incredibly intense and disappointing chapter in GBLT history. We were betrayed by some allies and politicians. So much happened in those couple months it's almost impossible to document it all. The question now is how damaged is the community (GBLT) and can we get it together for a new push in 2009?

[Guest savagedm]

Well then we should just abandon them and take our own movement up. If others want to join us then they are welcome, but those that do not want us can go kick rocks.

[Guest Keri]

It is unfortunate that during the limited time I have been going over the political movement for LBGT, and also the various organizations out there.... seems alot like the "T" gets merely lip service. Even my union's national "GLBT" group, which is supposed to be my advocate for possibly coming out, simply either does not understand 'T" or just doesn't want to deal with it - I was referred to HRC's site for their "coming out" brochure! Sad fact is if you're gay or lesbian, you're better off than being TG.... we're definitely the unwanted children.

[Guest RubyShana]

It is unfortunate that during the limited time I have been going over the political movement for LBGT, and also the various organizations out there.... seems alot like the "T" gets merely lip service. Even my union's national "GLBT" group, which is supposed to be my advocate for possibly coming out, simply either does not understand 'T" or just doesn't want to deal with it - I was referred to HRC's site for their "coming out" brochure! Sad fact is if you're gay or lesbian, you're better off than being TG.... we're definitely the unwanted children.

QFT, Sister....qft....I found it was alot easier to come out as a "gay man" than a "straight woman in a mans body"....Gotta love labels, eh?

(QFT = Quoted for truth....I knew someone would ask so I just beat ya to the mark hehe )

[Guest Zoharstoi]

Looooonnnnggggg story.

1969: Stonewall Rebellion. This is the beginning of the modern gay/lesbian movement. But guess who started it all? Trans people, but that inconvenient truth is lost on many today.

1970's: First attempt at getting an ENDA (Employment Non Discrimination Act) passed. We were the first casualties of this effort and thrown under the bus.

Late 70's: We (MtF's) become vilified by Janice Raymond and other radical feminists.

80's: A bad time for us period.

Early 90's: We start to re-organize and start assimilating back into the community, which adds the letter T, as in GBLT.

1994: The second betrayal. As a new effort is being made to create a new version ENDA, gets who gets thrown under the bus again?

Late 90's-early 00's: We reorganize again. The internet allows us to do this like never before. We make ourselves heard!

Jan 2007: After intense lobbying we are included in the new proposed ENDA legislation. We are promised that we will stick together no matter what. We give lots of time and money to the effort and we testify before Congress.

Setp 26, 2007: Black Wednesday. In the days before ENDA will finally be formally introduced rumors fly that we're going to be thrown under the bus again. In the spring Rep Barney Frank (openly gay) had been made the chief sponsor of our bill. He had a history of transphobia, but people thought he was more educated now. WRONG. He announces that we are to be thrown under the bus AGAIN. His plan is to split ENDA in two (a gay part and a trans part) and submit both bills separately. He is immediately denounced by us and over 300 GBLT oprganization nationwide. Because of the ruckus the vote is delayed, but ultimately the spilt is formalized (2 separate bills). It's clear that Rep Frank and Rep Pelosi don't care about us, they just want to pass something as resume fodder. The new gay only ENDA is filled with loopholes that will make it ineffective, but our opponents won't be swayed. The fact that the bill will never be signed by Bush doesn't sway them either. It was a HUGE mess that was totally ignored by the press. It makes me sooooo angry.

More here:

http://blog.glad.org/2007/10/weakened-enda...s-no-sense.html

http://www.unitedenda.org/

ENDA Blog starts here:

http://endablog.wordpress.com/2007/10/page/9/

To sum up: It was an incredibly intense and disappointing chapter in GBLT history. We were betrayed by some allies and politicians. So much happened in those couple months it's almost impossible to document it all. The question now is how damaged is the community (GBLT) and can we get it together for a new push in 2009?

I have One Question, What group stands to gain from the split? I have read stories in New England paper's on third

parties starting "stuff" for some sort of gain.

I am new here and alway's ask WHY!

[Sally]

I am extremely non-political, I avoid confrontations and politics as we know it is nothing but.

One of the problems that I see for being more accepted as a medical condition rather than a lifestyle choice is the fact that we are in the GBLT! For the uniformed this reinforces the idea that it is a choice and that it is directly linked to having sex as a different gender - after all the other three letters are all based on sexual preference - not gender!

While I can see that being part of a much larger group can be helpful in applying leverage, it seems that whenever it seems that we might cost them anything - we're gone anyway! Maybe we should be on our own, I haven't seen a lot of help from anybody else anyway!

But remember, I've been living with my head buried in the sand for my entire life!

[Guest Evan_J]

In the beginning I felt unity was the way to go. That there was "strength in numbers". And there is strength in numbers I'm just not sure that our numbers are strengthing our cause anymore. Especially when , not only are we not getting any of the "group" benefits offered the rest of the letters -LGB- but we're actually being misused in some instances by oppenents of the LGB to justify continuing discriminaton against them while simultaneously undermining our own hope of being recognized as a part of the population battling a medical issue not an orientation issue and seeking legislation and seeking to be recognized for that not "sex and relationships".

I additonally realize the greatest obstacle we actually face is the mainstream fear of us transitioning successfully. To them it means the possibility of getting too close to "one of us" without knowing it and for them that is just a "horror". I think the greatest aid to any of us with this regard will be to give them opportunities to actually know/see us without it being for any "sensational" or controversial reason. Until transpeople aren't doing something "odd" for the gender they are living as I don't see the multitudes being ready to "open their arms in understanding." And I'm sorry but all the "deviating outside of the binary" and "abolishing the binary" etc. that some peeps want to do is not going to cut it if you want these people to buy what you're selling because (and I think some people overlook this) the gender that some people want to "rewrite" and "deconstruct" is already being lived in by a whoooole bunch of folks who like it just the way it is and don't want to be one of what it is they want to "make being a man be" or "make being a woman be". And honestly who are you to change someone else's gender's definition?

[Guest Kelly Ann]

Politics has plenty of very apt descriptions...Mark Twain and Will Rodgers were masters at it. Evan is, as per the usual, spot on in his assessment. Leah is immersed and more than versed with this issue. There's LOTS that smells about politics...and then leaves a bad taste afterwards that no amount of brushing or air sanitizer will remove. I will profess a bit of political ignorance here but isn't it really about persuasion? Politics that is...If there is a tendancy for the 'T' to be run over by the Freedom Bus as the GLB Community goes down the highway like a band of gypsies, are they perhaps under-estimating the intellectual and financial clout of this aspect? Barney Frank is one of the more adept politicians I have ever witnessed at the mystical art of talking out of both sides of the mouth while saying nothing. Sad but true it would probably be wiser to reinforce just how much more effective the GLB is when it has the 'T' added.

[Guest Syamantaka]

As a group, there is strength in numbers. To go it alone is suicide, especially in todays

techno glass house. I think stronger ties to the global community should be made keep

up with new developments and I say this as a 15yr net junkie, Strides should be taken to

get some protection from the U.N. as a Global Community.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

The idea of the UN is good but for the most part it is a paper tiger, it is good about passing resolutions but it has no powers of enforcement so countries can do as they wish.

To go it alone I agree is near on suicide but since the other parts of the glbT movement insist on giving us the left overs then we may need to think of something. One of the first things we need to do is get some accurate numbers as to how many of us there are the stats I have found are all over the map. Unless we can nail it down to something a politician can wrap his/her mind around then we dont stand a chance.

How many of us are there?

what is it we as a group want?

what is the best way to get it?

should we start at the state and local level and work up?

Here at Laura's we are international in scope and have a very active user base, this might give us something to work from but I dont know. The only thing the organs of state understand is numbers, how many of you are there and can you help me get elected.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Yikes these old topics keep coming up!

The GLBT community in New Orleans has been cautioned to keep the "T" in their fight for rights or we will not support them. They have reluctantly agreed.

Apparently it has to be a GLBT by GLBT local group battle. There is a tendancy to sacrifice us to appease politicians, and the excuse is they will come back later and fight for us. DON"T ACCEPT THAT!

Lizzy

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

I was working with an advocacy group named PROMO here in Missouri, on one of our trips to the state capital to educate our state legislators I wanted to bring up the fact the for the Transgendered it was a medical condition and nothing else. I was told not to do this by the state director of PROMO that wasn't how they wanted to handle us. When I realized this I basically went on my own the rest of that trip and did things my way and have not worked with PROMO since. I will not stand with those who push us to the back or onto the floor to be walked on by the world it's night fair or right.

Charlene Leona