What $57 Million Can Get You

[Guest Anna_Banana]

The United States is facing quite a number of hardships during this early portion of the 21st century. We've essentially been dealing with a nine year war, an economic crisis, a huge increase in poverty, rising unemployment, and inequality among minority groups just to name a few. The world is turning against us. Our own people are turning against each other. Yet despite these conflicts and issues that affect us as a nation, we really find the time and money to do what's necessary:

That's right. We erected a freaking 3.6 mile long, 18-foot-high fence across the U.S.-Mexico border near San Diego. This $57.7 million monstrosity was obviously the best choice of spending and political decision making we could make. No, who cares about creating jobs for the unemployed? Who cares about fixing our infrastructure? And honestly, who cares about giving equal rights to the LGBT community?

Source

Reporting from San Diego - The border barrier dips and curves, zigs and zags, hugging the mountain's contours like a slimmed-down version of the Great Wall of China.

Among the costliest stretch of fencing ever built on the U.S.-Mexico border, the 3.6-mile wall of steel completed last fall is meant to block trafficking routes over Otay Mountain, just east of San Diego.

People seeking to enter the country illegally have hiked the scrub-covered, tarantula-infested peak for years, trying to get to roads leading to San Diego.

"We're no longer conceding this area to smugglers," said Jerome C. Conlin, a U.S. Border Patrol spokesman...

...The $57.7-million project is one segment in the massive expansion of border infrastructure approved by Congress during George W. Bush's presidency. Homeland Security has erected fencing in small towns, remote valleys and high-desert mesas from the Pacific Ocean to Texas.

At about $16 million a mile, the Otay Mountain barrier cost about four times as much as similar border fencing built during this expansion, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

The Border Patrol's San Diego sector was already one of the country's most heavily fortified frontiers before the mountain fence was constructed, with about 40 of the sector's 60 miles lined with vehicle or pedestrian barriers...

...When the federal government broke ground last year, environmental groups, including the Sierra Club, said the project would damage the Otay Mountain Wilderness. Portions of the fence and the 5-mile access road lie in the federally protected area.

The federal government, trying to expedite construction of border fencing, waived more than 30 environmental laws in 2008, including the Wilderness Act, Clean Water Act, Endangered Species Act and others that environmentalists said applied to the Otay area...

...

When the economy improves, the mountain will once again draw immigrants, fence or no fence, said Pedro Rios, director of the American Friends Service Committee in San Diego.

"It seems to me, if someone is able to climb the mountains in the Otay Wilderness, a 15-foot wall will not make a difference," he said...

Good job, America. I mean, I just thought you were joking when you said you were going to fence the border, but now I see just how dumb you really are. *thumbs up*

.Anna

[Guest Nikki A]

for that much it should probably be less ugly! i mean, you are completely right that it is a complete waste. but wat an eye sore! should have made it pink

hugs, Nikki

[Guest April63]

Well, building a fence creates jobs. It also bolsters the security of this nation. I personally don't like the idea of a fence, but how else are we supposed to do it? There really isn't another option. As for fixing the economy an all that fun stuff, that's so complicated that one task won't be able to do it. In fact, it will probably never happen. We'll just have to learn to live with it.

I think the stupidity lies in the common, everyday person who just doesn't care and doesn't think about how to do anything the right way.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

Well, building a fence creates jobs. It also bolsters the security of this nation. I personally don't like the idea of a fence, but how else are we supposed to do it? There really isn't another option. As for fixing the economy an all that fun stuff, that's so complicated that one task won't be able to do it. In fact, it will probably never happen. We'll just have to learn to live with it.

I think the stupidity lies in the common, everyday person who just doesn't care and doesn't think about how to do anything the right way.

Actually, building the fence reduces jobs. As the article mentions "The Border Patrol's San Diego sector was already one of the country's most heavily fortified frontiers before the mountain fence was constructed, with about 40 of the sector's 60 miles lined with vehicle or pedestrian barriers..." Now that the fence is in place they are going to use less border patrol for that area. And actually, it's pretty simple to handle the illegal immigration issue. The problem is, many employers opt not to do the background check because they know they can hire more illegals for less than the cost of one American citizen on the payroll. Whether people want to admit it or not, illegal immigrants are a significant portion of our economy's backbone. Could you imagine if every job had to pay each employee $40/hour like, say, the UAW forces GM and Ford? Sure, employees would be happy, but businesses would be hurting.

.Anna

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Actually, building the fence reduces jobs. As the article mentions "The Border Patrol's San Diego sector was already one of the country's most heavily fortified frontiers before the mountain fence was constructed, with about 40 of the sector's 60 miles lined with vehicle or pedestrian barriers..." Now that the fence is in place they are going to use less border patrol for that area. And actually, it's pretty simple to handle the illegal immigration issue. The problem is, many employers opt not to do the background check because they know they can hire more illegals for less than the cost of one American citizen on the payroll. Whether people want to admit it or not, illegal immigrants are a significant portion of our economy's backbone. Could you imagine if every job had to pay each employee $40/hour like, say, the UAW forces GM and Ford? Sure, employees would be happy, but businesses would be hurting.

.Anna

those troops can now be redeployed to other areas like Az, NM, TX there by making the fence employment neutral

[Guest sarah f]

Not to sound like I don't care for illegals but just think how many jobs american citizens would possibly have if there weren't so many illegals here already. I don't like the idea of the fence but something had to be done. I don't have a problem for anyone that comes over here legally and pay taxes just like the rest of us do. My problem is that most illegals have all the benifits of the hospitals and if they get into a wreck guess who pays for the damage, not them because they don't have insurance. I would be ok if they just would give them a one month period to turn themselves in and become citizens of the United States. After that anyone caught here illegally should be deported back to their country right away. It really makes no sense to me that if an illegal gets into a traffic accident, the cop on scene can't do anything about it. They should have the right to take their vehical and take them to a detention center where they would be transferred to a border patrol facility.

Sorry for the rant but I believe illegals are taking the jobs of many americans that would do just about anything right now so they can support their family.

Love,

Sarah F

[Paula ult]

All the fence, in the world will not deter someone coming into the USA if they really want to, they will always find a way.

Most of these projects are piggy backed on other more important bills in order for them to pass, the health reform bill is one example.

pork barrel at it's finest.

Paula

[Guest Anna_Banana]

Sorry for the rant but I believe illegals are taking the jobs of many americans that would do just about anything right now so they can support their family.

Love,

Sarah F

I hear that argument all the time and I have to disagree. Americans moan about "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" but in truth, a lot of those jobs most Americans wouldn't do anyway. Our society has been brought up with a strong sense of entitlement. We "deserve" $40,000 a year or more. We "deserve" employer-paid health care. We "deserve" paid vacation. The lower class jobs that most illegals work are pure grunt work that many Americans stick their nose up at, regardless of the economic climate.

.Anna

[Guest Kaitlyn88]

lol if I was trying to sneak into the country I would be happy about the way. There will be less patrols and you could bring a ladder, rope, break through or even dig under it and have a better chance of making it now.

[Guest Kaitlyn88]

I hear that argument all the time and I have to disagree. Americans moan about "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" but in truth, a lot of those jobs most Americans wouldn't do anyway. Our society has been brought up with a strong sense of entitlement. We "deserve" $40,000 a year or more. We "deserve" employer-paid health care. We "deserve" paid vacation. The lower class jobs that most illegals work are pure grunt work that many Americans stick their nose up at, regardless of the economic climate.

.Anna

I wish I could find a low class job. Other than my sister who married a millionaire everyone I know makes between 7,500 and 20,000 a year. The most I've ever made was 16,000 something and I thought that was a lot of money compared to usually making around 8,000 a year and having to pay all my bills. I never could have imagined that people would think they need that much money a year and would turn down jobs unless they were like Bill Gates.

[Guest sarah f]

Anna, this is a sore subject with me because I know my dad has been looking for about a year now and still can't find a job. He doesn't care about how much he makes because anything would be better than the 3500 he made all of last year. He is a contract labor guy so yes this does affect him. Sorry but I can't help to feel resentment to those that are taking jobs away from somebody like my dad. Like I said in the previous post, if they want to work legally and become a US citizen than I am all for it.

Sarah F

[Guest April63]

Most grown Americans don't want these lower class jobs, and in reality, they don't pay enough to truly support a family. But if you're young, many of these jobs are doable.

It's a threat to everyone's safety to have undocumented people running around. Something needs to be done to keep people out. Stealing jobs is just one thing. The fact that they can get free services and cheat the system is another. It's a huge hole that needs to be patched.

It amazes me how much people mess things up. Imagine if everyone just did the right thing... wow...

[Guest Kaitlyn88]

Well, on a plus note, this isnt the stupidest fence idea ever.... look at the Great Wall of China. That and this are very similar, ours is just, well, less expensive.

You see, as low to the ground as the fence is people will just climb over it. As short as its length is others will just walk around it.

And with less patrols due to this fence suddenly being there... its going to mean MORE people successfully immigrating.

China had a similar problem with the Mongols going around their big wall.

The Great Wall of China wasn't built to keep people out. It was built as a warning system, thats why it has look out points. It's 2 goals were that and to slow down the invading troops long enough to gather an army in defense. That's why it was constantly getting torn down and built back up. They didn't mind that they had to keep rebuilding it because the point was to slow them down.

As far as jobs go it's not just younger people with low paying jobs. I know many adults, some that are even college graduates that still don't make half of that and many that have been looking desperately for a job, any job at all. I myself would be happy getting paid below minimum wage just to have a job and I have graduated high school, technical school and have a good military record.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

The Great Wall of China wasn't built to keep people out. It was built as a warning system, thats why it has look out points. It's 2 goals were that and to slow down the invading troops long enough to gather an army in defense. That's why it was constantly getting torn down and built back up. They didn't mind that they had to keep rebuilding it because the point was to slow them down.

As far as jobs go it's not just younger people with low paying jobs. I know many adults, some that are even college graduates that still don't make half of that and many that have been looking desperately for a job, any job at all. I myself would be happy getting paid below minimum wage just to have a job and I have graduated high school, technical school and have a good military record.

Well if you'd be happy working below minimum wage, I have good news for you! Fast food. Yep, and if your local restaurants aren't hiring, I guarantee you mine are. There really are plenty of low-low-class jobs if you don't mind making pennies. But, again, most Americans will not degrade themselves for it. However, if you are up for it, they are out there. I once met a homeless person who said they'd do anything to have a job. I gave him twenty dollars and I told him that I could get him a job as long as he didn't mind fast food. I told him exactly where to go and who to talk to. My friend (who was with me that day) spoke with the manager of the restaurant (because she worked under the manager) and the manager agreed to give the job to any homeless person willing to work. That guy never showed up to inquire.

Now I can't judge him because I don't know the reason for him not showing up, but I can speculate. I've met quite a few low income or no income individuals in my short time, and all of them refuse to degrade themselves to working in lower class jobs. They feel a sense of entitlement.

.Anna

[Sally]

Most people feel that they are defined by their jobs - and for these people honest hard labor is demeaning but if you do your job well you can take pride in anything and pennies are better than nothing.

But I am one who has been underemployed for my entire life because I cannot bring myself to cheat anyone and when you lay off 7500 workers just before Christmas and divide $80,000,000 in bonuses among the Executives - You are stealing!

(General Motors back in the 70s)

But we are taught to admire these parasites and disdain the workers - no values at all just worship money and live a soulless life centered around your possessions - not for me - I m a hard worker but I am no better than anyone else so I cannot be a big boss.

All in how you look at it.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

This is a massive waste. Illegal immigrants are generally helping us. We should be encouraging immigrants to come here, not demonizing them. According to the Cato Institute, and various economists, immigrants create much more jobs than they take. So the whole "I lost my job to a Mexican" thing is not true. Some individuals do lose their jobs but more people gain jobs as a result. Their economic contributions greatly outweigh their costs because they do not get welfare or social security for obvious reasons. Do not believe what the pundits tell you. We need more immigrants. Still, illegal immigration does open up the concern that a terrorist organization could enter through the border. I think we should have nearly open borders where we allow nearly everyone in except people with known ties to dangerous groups. If you look at the studies, it would be better for the economy.

[Guest April63]

This is a massive waste. Illegal immigrants are generally helping us. We should be encouraging immigrants to come here, not demonizing them. According to the Cato Institute, and various economists, immigrants create much more jobs than they take. So the whole "I lost my job to a Mexican" thing is not true. Some individuals do lose their jobs but more people gain jobs as a result. Their economic contributions greatly outweigh their costs because they do not get welfare or social security for obvious reasons. Do not believe what the pundits tell you. We need more immigrants. Still, illegal immigration does open up the concern that a terrorist organization could enter through the border. I think we should have nearly open borders where we allow nearly everyone in except people with known ties to dangerous groups. If you look at the studies, it would be better for the economy.

Yes, we want immigration, but it needs to be regulated. People need to have documentation. It's not safe to let people just wander in and out, and have no idea who is in. The government needs to keep records. And how are you supposed to stop people with dangerous ties if you're not watching the border anyway?

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Yes, we want immigration, but it needs to be regulated. People need to have documentation. It's not safe to let people just wander in and out, and have no idea who is in. The government needs to keep records. And how are you supposed to stop people with dangerous ties if you're not watching the border anyway?

We do need to watch the border, but we would need a lot less people and would not need to build a wall if we let more people in. We should not be restricting the number of immigrants. We merely should be restricting the type of immigrants, and the only type we should restrict would be terrorists or criminals. Of course, we need to have a better standard of what we call terrorism. Currently Food Not Bombs is considered a terrorist group. *rolls eyes* Because cooking food for people is a form of terrorism.

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Most grown Americans don't want these lower class jobs, and in reality, they don't pay enough to truly support a family. But if you're young, many of these jobs are doable.

It's a threat to everyone's safety to have undocumented people running around. Something needs to be done to keep people out. Stealing jobs is just one thing. The fact that they can get free services and cheat the system is another. It's a huge hole that needs to be patched.

It amazes me how much people mess things up. Imagine if everyone just did the right thing... wow...

Actually they don't get very much free services. Basically, they get emergency medical care and if they abuse their child the kid is taken away. That is it. However, the money they bring in through their work actually adds more tax money. Not only that but, surprising as it may seem, many of them do pay taxes with a program by the IRS which gives them an identification number that is not a social security number but they can still use it to file taxes. Most of them are not these big scary demons coming to take away our jobs. These are mostly hardworking people who are here in order to find a better life for themselves and their families. Here is the amazing thing about this: they will not get a social security check nor a refund and they are breaking the law already so they won't be risking much by not filing taxes, but they are filing them anyway. They are filing them because they genuinely want to contribute to American society. We need more people like that in the United States.

[Guest Alexander James]

Yes, we want immigration, but it needs to be regulated. People need to have documentation. It's not safe to let people just wander in and out, and have no idea who is in. The government needs to keep records. And how are you supposed to stop people with dangerous ties if you're not watching the border anyway?

I have a little problem with that.... There are dangerous people within American, AMERICAN BORN DANGEROUS PEOPLE, that we don't even know are around. Serial killers that are unfaced, runaway murders, and whatnot evils of the unknown *insert spooky sounds*. With these people coming in it's not gonna effect us that much with the massive problems we have.

yeah.... I'm bad at politics.... Don't mind me.... D:

I don't really care if they come in, as long as they know English. careers I see them having aren't like the ones I wish I would be. I had a nanny, which I'm 99.9% sure was illegal, and she was okay at her job.... just.... she really needs to learn English...

[Guest Anna_Banana]

I've come to the realization that the problem isn't illegal immigration. It's immigration period. And I'm not saying that I have a problem with it, no not at all. It's not a difficult process to naturalize these people and make them legal. But even if they were legal immigrants, all the people complaining about the jobs being "taken" would still have reason to complain. The only issue then is that it wouldn't be politically correct to complain about legal citizens "stealing" all the jobs. So really, this is a moot issue. The fact of the matter is, if you are opposed to illegals for reasons such as less jobs being available, you are simply opposed to immigration on the whole.

"But Anna, they also use our hospitals! It's not fair!" Yeah, and because they have no health insurance and little income, they get the same treatment that homeless people get: very little to none. Besides, when I go to the hospital (and I'm a frequent visitor so I know it well), illegal immigrants are not the ones making my wait time go through the roof. Every single person in line ahead of me is white. Not black, not Asian, not Pacific Islander, not Native American, not Middle Eastern. Should I somehow stop them from using the medical system now because they are making MY wait time longer? And the funny thing is, I live in an area with a large Hispanic population. I rarely see them in the hospital. In fact, when I do see them in the hospital, its because one of them is experiencing something major. I remember the one time I saw a Hispanic couple with their child at the hospital because the baby was having a 102 degree F fever. Why were all the white people at the hospital? Runny nose and the sniffles. Can't go to work cause of that! Sign me a slip, Doc.

.Anna

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Anna, if you don't stop being so smart I'll fall in love with you. Just kidding, but you definitely hit the nail on the head. Not to mention that "illegals" is often a codeword for Latinos when used by some conservative commentators. It's often the same way sometimes "welfare queens" is often a codeword for lower class black women. Most people on welfare are white, but we all know what comes to mind when a demagogue is ranting. This is a classic propaganda technique known as dog whistle politics. It is when the commentator, normally a demagogue of some sort or a propagandist, uses a term that means something for most people but something entirely different for the people they actually want to sway. It works pretty well, especially with the addition of proof by assertion. It's when people repeat the same belief over and over again until it is accepted as fact. As far as I know, most people opposed to immigration that are not racist, but much of their opinion is being dictated by people who are. Many of the beliefs people have about illegal immigrants come simply from having heard those beliefs repeated a great deal. Things such as "immigrants take up all our social services" and "immigrants use up all our jobs" are good examples of that.

[Guest Melanieshaman]

I hear that argument all the time and I have to disagree. Americans moan about "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" but in truth, a lot of those jobs most Americans wouldn't do anyway. Our society has been brought up with a strong sense of entitlement. We "deserve" $40,000 a year or more. We "deserve" employer-paid health care. We "deserve" paid vacation. The lower class jobs that most illegals work are pure grunt work that many Americans stick their nose up at, regardless of the economic climate.

.Anna

As long as i have been unemployed i am not above ANY work. Sadly i can't work for most of the lawn care companies here, because i don't speak spanish.

Mel

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Not to sound like I don't care for illegals but just think how many jobs american citizens would possibly have if there weren't so many illegals here already. I don't like the idea of the fence but something had to be done. I don't have a problem for anyone that comes over here legally and pay taxes just like the rest of us do. My problem is that most illegals have all the benifits of the hospitals and if they get into a wreck guess who pays for the damage, not them because they don't have insurance. I would be ok if they just would give them a one month period to turn themselves in and become citizens of the United States. After that anyone caught here illegally should be deported back to their country right away. It really makes no sense to me that if an illegal gets into a traffic accident, the cop on scene can't do anything about it. They should have the right to take their vehical and take them to a detention center where they would be transferred to a border patrol facility.

Sorry for the rant but I believe illegals are taking the jobs of many americans that would do just about anything right now so they can support their family.

Love,

Sarah F

You know how many they would have? A lot less. Immigrants bring more jobs than they take. They do not have all the benefits of hospitals. Basically they just go there if there is an emergency but they cannot get preventative care. If an illegal immigrant gets into a traffic accident, they get serious stuff. They will get arrested and probably deported. If you have no problem with legal immigrants, why do you have a problem with illegal ones? They take jobs all the same.

[Guest April63]

You know how many they would have? A lot less. Immigrants bring more jobs than they take. They do not have all the benefits of hospitals. Basically they just go there if there is an emergency but they cannot get preventative care. If an illegal immigrant gets into a traffic accident, they get serious stuff. They will get arrested and probably deported. If you have no problem with legal immigrants, why do you have a problem with illegal ones? They take jobs all the same.

Because they're here illegally. They have broken the law and they are not documented.