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Guest Elizabeth K

Letter To Therisa

24 posts in this topic

Therisa and I were talking in PM. She said she felt restless in the churches she has been to, and was talking about the cosmic joke of 'transsexually.

I wrote back:

Christianity is a tool some people use Some use it correctly, most don't. To think we are just electrical energy in an animal brain, something that will burn out and disappear, is too horrifying to face without the hope that we are thinking wrong about that possibility. Christianity was built on a promise we are going to live after death. BUT it ALSO is supposed to teach us to love one another.

That's where Christianity fails most people - the 'love one another' part . It has preachers and priests. They study and tell us about God's will. Strangely god turned out to be 'male' just like them.

So personally, I balance with the female aspect of the Creator - the Goddess. I am a Catholic Wiccan. But even that is a tool. The Creator is actually unknowable - but...

The Creator is there.

Why we were made the way we are? Like the terror we feel about death, we feel a terror that we are trans like we are, for no real reason. It scares the hell outta us that we suffer needlessly. So we are counstantly asking why, and waiting for answers from an invented God - a male God that talks through preachers and priests... what is wrong with that picture!!!

Therisa - you are a smart cookie - and we trans have extra senses. Of course you feel those restless spirits in the churches, energy thwarted by false 'Christianity. Lost souls tormented by dogma.

We are innocent. You and I are born transsexual - nothing we asked for, I guarantee!

BUT the joke? When you touch the face of the CREATOR - it will all be explained. We ARE immortal souls - the Creator is NOT playing games. Sometimes I think we were chosen to be like we are because of our resiliency through many past lives. We are working 'through' something.

So Therisa? Lets get it right this time so we won't have to repeat it! GRIN

Girl? Get sane - best you can - and let's go shopping together sometime and talk about how unfair life is!

I love you and your spirit. Souls like us are so rare...

Lizzy

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If this is planned because we were resilient in a past life then so be it. I will just try my best to live my life as God planned for me. That is all I can do because I didn't wish this for myself. If I could have had a wish then I would have been a girl the whole time.

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.

Lizzy.....

Even though that letter was to Therisa....it was very comforting to me....

Thank you...

Donna Jean

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Yes - we all wish it would have been what we feel it should have been. I don't know why we were set up like this. It just doesn't seem right, but it has to be, I suppose.

lizzy

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What if there is not an after life, only immortality of the things you do when you are alive? Would you still believe? What is wrong with having morals, ethics and virtue, and not being rewarded later?

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There is nothing wrong with having morals or ethics for any reason. Because it makes an individual's life better and makes society and civilization possible ...whatever.

I believe in a Supreme Being and in reincarnation because I've always known and sensed them. Even as a very small child I argued with the teachers in the conservative denomination I was raised in that God was not some vengeful figure that was going to burn everyone in Hell who wasn't baptized in our church. I knew better, knew God wasn't like that.

I've remembered past lives since around 4 or 5. Which made life even more difficult for me because I very soon learned my memories weren't acceptable in my church and family. In the 1950s in small towns people didn't talk about things like that so I felt completely alone. I knew the memories were real.

I can't explain it and don't ask anyone else to accept my beliefs. But I know my memories and feelings are lifelong and real.

Hugs

John

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Well in a way we cease to exist - I think - when our body dies.

We spend our first years learning muscle coordination and mental skills - our brain has to grow large enough to be usable. And we mature into adulthood (if all goes right).. So that goes when the body goes.

Also, we tend to develop an 'operating' personallity so we can function in the body, the gender and racial characteristics, and the time and place of our incarnation. THAT goes when the body goes.

So a good part of what we are in this life does not continue - not in the same way...

BUT - what if our deeds are eternal, our successes and our failures, our good ways and... our bad ways... all that is part of what we are, and is part of our soul after death of the body? It seems to give a purpose to this incarnation.

So are we repeating lifetimes? Some probably are. It may be an option... many do make a decision to come back here, and some go somewhere else, some may even just quit.

If that is the case, repeating lifetimes I mean, many of us are buiding on top if past lives - many on lives based upon a worldly incarnation. Some of us must like it here or we would go somewhere else.

OR

We haven't gotten it right yet - GRIN.

Just some thoughts on a Sunday morning - AMEN!

Lizzy

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Well in a way we cease to exist - I think - when our body dies.

We spend our first years learning muscle coordination and mental skills - our brain has to grow large enough to be usable. And we mature into adulthood (if all goes right).. So that goes when the body goes.

Also, we tend to develop an 'operating' personallity so we can function in the body, the gender and racial characteristics, and the time and place of our incarnation. THAT goes when the body goes.

So a good part of what we are in this life does not continue - not in the same way...

BUT - what if our deeds are eternal, our successes and our failures, our good ways and... our bad ways... all that is part of what we are, and is part of our soul after death of the body? It seems to give a purpose to this incarnation.

So are we repeating lifetimes? Some probably are. It may be an option... many do make a decision to come back here, and some go somewhere else, some may even just quit.

If that is the case, repeating lifetimes I mean, many of us are buiding on top if past lives - many on lives based upon a worldly incarnation. Some of us must like it here or we would go somewhere else.

OR

We haven't gotten it right yet - GRIN.

Just some thoughts on a Sunday morning - AMEN!

Lizzy

In considering ways to be open in society, I was looking at the Unitarian Universalist website http://www.uua.org/visitors/justicediversity/6252.shtml If I wanted to practice a Christian faith this is where I would go. Who know, I might try it. The idea of broad acceptace by a large group is atractive.

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BUT - what if our deeds are eternal, our successes and our failures, our good ways and... our bad ways... all that is part of what we are, and is part of our soul after death of the body?

Ever hear of the butterfly effect? Everything you do effects the future. If you could come back you could set the stage earlier for your comeback. "not likely" "The Immortal" series.

Epicurus said if there is Gods they are too busy to bother with human life. At 6.7 billion today more than ever in history on earth we would have to explain the difference between new souls and old ones.

Then there is "Cosmos may show echoes of events before Big Bang"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11837869

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Religion is a tricky topic, because there is so much to it. So where to start...

There is nothing wrong with organized religion. In fact, it is good to be organized. Organization is needed as a community grows to maintain order. Think about the next life, it must be organized. All the billions of people to ever walk the earth, together in one place? There must be order and organization. A government essentially.

The problem with some of today's organized religion is the same problem with today's governments. People try to do what they simply cannot do. We are not gods and cannot pretend to be when we are at the head of an organization. So when leaders do that, they try to make decisions with their flawed perspectives, thoughts, ideas, and desires. Eventually this leads to some bigger problems with the organization. This is what has happened with so many religions. The doctrine of love has gone second place, because various leaders have put their understanding of other doctrines first.

I don't think religion is just a tool. Religion is reality. It explains who we are, where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going. Over time religion has changed, and now we have countless "different" religions and interpretations. But they all come from the same source and original set of beliefs. My God is your God. Even if they seem different, even if we have different beliefs, ultimately, my God, my Creator, is also yours.

It takes time to know the Creator, but it is possible. I think a lot of people have dismissed this option for the fast-paced thrills of life. But that's what we really need to do. That's what organized religions need to do, if they haven't already. After we do that, we'll know the truth of all things. The reason for why we are what we are, the things we need to accomplish, the reason for why we are given challenges, will all be revealed to us.

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we'll know the truth of all things.

History tells us we will never know all truths. For every new truth there are 10 more questions. Philosophy seems to have better evidence to back up explanations of reflective questions. Dogma falls short of harmony with the universe.

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History tells us we will never know all truths. For every new truth there are 10 more questions. Philosophy seems to have better evidence to back up explanations of reflective questions. Dogma falls short of harmony with the universe.

When have you read a history book by a perfect, all-knowing being? The history that we have is the history of a flawed, imperfect people. So obviously we will not find all truths in it. We have to look to a more perfect record or a perfect being for such answers.

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When have you read a history book by a perfect, all-knowing being? The history that we have is the history of a flawed, imperfect people. So obviously we will not find all truths in it. We have to look to a more perfect record or a perfect being for such answers.

You do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Perhaps flaws, evil, mistakes etc. are all part of the perfect harmony. Seems to all work together now. The unknown is how those things fit into our perfect world not that are world is not perfect.

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Problem with history, it's reflective of the writer's bias, whether for the good or bad. As one of my old university profs said, "history is written by the victors". Just my two cents on Lisa and April's discussion.

therisa

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Problem with history, it's reflective of the writer's bias, whether for the good or bad. As one of my old university profs said, "history is written by the victors". Just my two cents on Lisa and April's discussion.

therisa

Yeah, history is biased with our imperfections. So while studying history is good and we can learn many things, for ultimate truth we have to look to a perfect source.

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Yeah, history is biased with our imperfections. So while studying history is good and we can learn many things, for ultimate truth we have to look to a perfect source.

The difference between history and science is humans. Science can tell us the physical things that happen but history can tell us why humans made them happen. Perhaps the perspective comes from different places, we should take them all in for a 3D picture. What might seem evil to one is success to another. Losers if still alive do write history but getting known is the hard part. If you look at the church, the only source of knowledge through the dark ages, you will see much altering of history.

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I'm not sure about this history-human, science-fact concept. At the macro level in science, sure we can measure things and for all intents and purposes, the measurement is valid, but at the micro, we've found that by measuring something, we're actually affecting it, so the measurement isn't quite valid. Yet it's the best we've got.

Regarding history, written history to me anyway, doesn't tell us so much the why, but it does give on occasion insights into the why. Lots of things people do, they really don't want known and will not tell, or if pressed will give an alternative reason. It's just the way we are.

Putting human intervention/measurement/history with religion brings up some really interesting issues. Take one of the major historical councils on Christianity - The Council of Nicea. Lots of practices and trends and accepted beliefs came out of that. Written history suggests these were learned Men, thinking deep Thoughts, communing with God. Um, or maybe they were conventioneers, in a new city for a good time, getting together after business over drinks to make the real decisions (and who knows what else!!!!). Based on what we know of human nature, which version is probably closer to the truth, the 'written' historical one, or the one we can see examples of with our own eyes? Who really knows what went on there. Each person reading about it now can come away with his or her own thoughts, but probably none of them are what really happened. That is lost to the ages.

They tried to measure God and the measurement got affected by what they were measuring. They then tried to write it down, and the real why we now follow certain practices is lost to some 11-10 vote.

But it's what have, and we can only try to make the best of it.

Hugs

Chloë

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Based on what we know of human nature, which version is probably closer to the truth, the 'written' historical one, or the one we can see examples of with our own eyes?

The difference is evidence. Not everything is a lie unless you watch the modern media.

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Hi Lisa,

I completely understand where you are coming from, and yes, we cannot trust today's media. But do you really believe that people in historical times were more honest, more upright, more caring, more understanding than today? Why? Because the history books suggest that? Imagine 200 years from now, and people of that time will say they are encountering the most distorted media ever seen, and reminisce for the late 20th/early 21st century. That's life.

You have to be very careful reading historical works because they aren't necessarily the truth or a lie, they are as the person writing saw or understood it, and that's based on their own life, their own thoughts, their own understanding.

A really good example is the 'Renaissance' which was the Italian Renaissance of the 1400's and was in reality the 4th European renaissance. The three previous were the Carolingian, the Ottonian, and the 12th century ones. The difference is that the Italians were the first to actually realize they were having a renaissance, and their marketing machine geared up and publicized it as that, they exported it, and they coined the term 'Dark Ages' to refer to anything that happened before. They weren't lying, they were just enhancing the facts. Their's was probably the most pronounced and remembered, but how much of that was because of what happened as opposed to what was marketed and written in the history books.

Remember the immortal words of the great Yogurt - It's all about moichendizing. The winner doesn't write the history books, it's his marketing and publicity team that do it.

Hugs

Chloë

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But do you really believe that people in historical times were more honest, more upright, more caring, more understanding than today? Why?

Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus, Plutarch, Lucretius,Cicero,Machiavelli,Augustine, St Thomas Aquinas, Montaigne, Tocqueville, Etc.

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Lisa,

I hope you're not expecting to compare people of the past 2400 years with people of the last 20? That would be sort of unfair.

For every Machiavelli, I can probably come up with Medici. There have certainly been a lot of infamous people over that time span. For positive role models, just off the top of my head in my lifetime I can come up with Einstein, Salk, Gandhi, but I could easily counter them with Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, or on a smaller but no less atrocious level, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

Be careful when you look at history through a small book, and compare it to only 20 or 30 years of mundane living. It's a very slanted and unfair view.

We live in a 'time'. Not necessarily better or worse than any other time, except our life expectancy is a lot greater (which has been enhanced by a tremendous decrease in early deaths - thank people like Salk for that one.) The years have changed, but not so much the people, just a heck of a lot more of us.

Hugs

Chloë

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Be careful when you look at history through a small book, and compare it to only 20 or 30 years of mundane living. It's a very slanted and unfair view.

There is truth and there is lies. It takes sapience to tell the difference. Much of our world is full of propaganda. ("Public Opinion" by Walter Lippman). Modern day people like Isaiah Berlin have gone through great pains to document ideas and there validity. This is a lost art in the days of TV and video. Through out history there has been differences of opinion but not much difference between good and bad. Morals, ethics and virtue are parallel in most cultures and paradigms.

Today never has been like any other time in history. In 1900 the world wide population was 1.3 billion, today it is 6.7 billion. There is simply not enough resources for everyone to live a long life. You can use science to see what happens to animals when these conditions arise. Humans are a form of animal and I doubt the results will be all that different. We see it in pockets of the world such as Rwanda or the demise of the culture of Easter Island. ( Collapse by Jared Diamond) Fighting over water has already begun (Blue Covenant by Maude Barlow) look at China destroying the Tibetan culture to secure the water from the mountains as the glaciers melt due to climate change from their industrialization. Resource shortages already effect Europe's ability to get out of the recession.

Datum is work to come by but by no means out of the ball park. We are being manipulated by the powers that be, because the showdown is not escapable. We can no longer just live for today unless you do not care to see a tomorrow.

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If as some have said here, that there is no life after death why are you so concernrd about it. I do believe we will live again (it better be as a girl) lol Agreat mathematition decided to proove mathematically that god exists. He failed in that endeaver, how ever he came up with this. If a non believer and a believer die and there is no god then no one looses, if on the other hand one does not believe and the other doesand there is a god then the non believer looses and the believer wins. It seems it would be smarter to believe. 1 out of three is still good odds.

Candy Kane

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If a non believer and a believer die and there is no god then no one looses, if on the other hand one does not believe and the other doesand there is a god then the non believer looses and the believer wins. It seems it would be smarter to believe. 1 out of three is still good odds.

Pascal's wager and it's broken if the deity is omniscient. There are infinite possibilities as to what may have created this place. It may not even be a being, but an infinite onion, with layers and layers of effects that caused our existence. I don't know, no one knows, and that is best to assert for as long as you live, because that is the only truth any human can tell with honesty.

Everything is broken by the Perception/Objectivity paradox. People thought diseases were caused by demons until someone found out it was actually microscopic lifeforms. Their perception altered their reality.

When have you read a history book by a perfect, all-knowing being? The history that we have is the history of a flawed, imperfect people. So obviously we will not find all truths in it. We have to look to a more perfect record or a perfect being for such answers.

But such a being has not been met yet, only people who claim to have met it and cannot show him to us others. The holy books of all religions are filled with errors in fact and hypocrisy.

The people who wrote the bible thought the stars were pinholes in the sky, and that the light was heaven, visible in those holes. There is no perfect book, and there never will be.

Neither will there be a perfect being, because everyone has a different idea of what the word perfect means. The word perfect is meaningless, because it's relative to what the user of the word thinks.

Religion is reality. It explains who we are, where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going. Over time religion has changed, and now we have countless "different" religions and interpretations. But they all come from the same source and original set of beliefs. My God is your God. Even if they seem different, even if we have different beliefs, ultimately, my God, my Creator, is also yours.

I don't agree. I don't think that religion explains anything about who we are or where we came from. Religions say we were created from clay and from earth, when we are in fact created by elements that are released when stars go supernova. Books, beliefs, can say anything about where we're going but that doesn't make any of it true. I cannot use the bible, to prove anything in the bible, and neither can the christians because of confirmation bias and ad populum arguments. This goes for every religion, so I'm not singling out them. Each religion has different sets of beliefs, some eat their deceased, others put them in the ground in coffins, others mummified their dead. Each religion has different deities, with different rules and different names. There is nothing that infers a singular source to any of these things other than that every human culture, at some point, has believed in higher powers. This can be explained with far simpler reasoning than magic, like that people were uninformed then and didn't and couldn't understand how the world worked.

If there is a creator, this harsh reality would become even more unbearable to me. I consider this place a joke, a sick, sadistic joke where organisms are forced to feed upon one another.

Stress and pain is a daily occurrence and will be for most of our lives, regardless if we live in the forests of nature, or in the cities of man.

What really hits home in me is the thought of what could have been if an almighty creator really did exist, all creatures, on all planets, could have avoided this fate.

I find solace in the loneliness, otherwise I'd like to talk to the management, because anyone who is not a psychotic sadist could create a better place than this.

If a god planned this much suffering for all organisms, me included, my only hope if there is an afterlife is to be buried with a switchblade; So that I may spring from my grave and

stab him. I don't believe in any creator, because I have not seen any evidence for one, but if there is one, I find its methods barbaric and twisted. I wish to have nothing to do with it.

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