Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest Annaemo

Trans More Accepted In Buddhist Countries?

Recommended Posts

Guest Annaemo

Hi I was just reading about Kathoey in Thailand then watching a youtube video about Newhalf in Japan. They were saying one reason they are more excepted is that in Buddhism its be leaved you inherit traits from your past life. I also had a strange feeling when I was on the bus that I was going into some kind of samadhi when I realised that I could be male and female. Is said in Christianity that is seen as a sin instead of a blessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

Kia Ora Annaemo,

:rolleyes: I know it’s been a while since you posted this… anyhow….

:rolleyes: For the most part Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism [Eastern philosophical beliefs] are more tolerant of diversity :friends: than their Abrahamic counterparts…

Having a belief in rebirth and karma fosters this tolerance, especially amongst Buddhists and Hindus…Many gay and transgender people in the West are drawn to Buddhism, because of it’s non judgemental nature…

RE: Karma & Rebirth...

:rolleyes: Some Thai Buddhists believe all humans will due to our karma, at some stage of our many rebirth, be born 'transgender'...They believe the karmic result for adultery , is for one to be reborn 'Transgender'...It's nothing to do with 'sinning' or 'good or bad', it's just the karmic results of unskillful actions.. :doh1: .There's no such thing as 'sin' in Buddhism... :thumbsup:

Metta Zenda :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JazzySmurf

Hello :-)

I do wonder if this hypothesis you mentioned is a causal one. It would mean Mr. Woods is coming back quite a few times as a hotshot transwoman golfer. Oh dear.

Heather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Wulfhere

I think we need to be careful not overgeneralise. Thailand seems to be tolerant of trans people in some respects, and yet there are some factors that point to the contrary even within Buddhism. I'm not sure if you've read the book The First Man-Made Man by Pagan Kennedy, but it is basically a biography of the life of Michael Dillon who was the first known transman to get bottom surgery in the 1940s. Dillon eventually went to live among a Buddhist community in India where he eventually revealed that he was FtM. Because of this he was denied ordination by one group in particular. Even after moving to another group where he was ordained as novice monk (and if I remember right, he wasn't allowed to rise above that position), he was not met with full acceptance because some would not accept him as fully male. I think people tend to over romanticise Buddhism, but it does have many of its own instances of anti-trans/anti-lgbt sentiments, which can be seen in some present day Buddhist groups. Remember that Buddhism in North America and European and as presented to westerners is not necessarily the reality of Buddhism in countries like Thailand.

A brief survey of Thai law shows that homosexuality was deemed a mental disorder until 2002, and because of that weren't permitted to serve in the military until 2005. There are no hate crime laws including the LGBT community in Thailand. Some Buddhist groups continue to prohibit gay men and trans people from being ordained.

There also seems to be a huge representation for MtFs but very little for FtMs. Do Kathoeys include FtMs? Is there any talk of FtMs within Thai society? That's a trend I'd like to see change the world over, because somehow we've managed to be less visible. As far as MtFs, it seems like the visibility there is similar to North America, in that a lot of centres around entertainment and comedy, rather than being seen as normal human beings. These are stereotypes that need to be broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

I think we need to be careful not overgeneralise. Thailand seems to be tolerant of trans people in some respects, and yet there are some factors that point to the contrary even within Buddhism. I'm not sure if you've read the book The First Man-Made Man by Pagan Kennedy, but it is basically a biography of the life of Michael Dillon who was the first known transman to get bottom surgery in the 1940s. Dillon eventually went to live among a Buddhist community in India where he eventually revealed that he was FtM. Because of this he was denied ordination by one group in particular. Even after moving to another group where he was ordained as novice monk (and if I remember right, he wasn't allowed to rise above that position), he was not met with full acceptance because some would not accept him as fully male. I think people tend to over romanticise Buddhism, but it does have many of its own instances of anti-trans/anti-lgbt sentiments, which can be seen in some present day Buddhist groups. Remember that Buddhism in North America and European and as presented to westerners is not necessarily the reality of Buddhism in countries like Thailand.

A brief survey of Thai law shows that homosexuality was deemed a mental disorder until 2002, and because of that weren't permitted to serve in the military until 2005. There are no hate crime laws including the LGBT community in Thailand. Some Buddhist groups continue to prohibit gay men and trans people from being ordained.

There also seems to be a huge representation for MtFs but very little for FtMs. Do Kathoeys include FtMs? Is there any talk of FtMs within Thai society? That's a trend I'd like to see change the world over, because somehow we've managed to be less visible. As far as MtFs, it seems like the visibility there is similar to North America, in that a lot of centres around entertainment and comedy, rather than being seen as normal human beings. These are stereotypes that need to be broken.

Kia Ora Wulfhere,[Thanks yes I've read the book it's interesting]

:rolleyes: However, If one compares apples with apples, Buddhist countries [that is countries where Buddhism is the central belief system] are more tolerant than those countries where Abrahamic religions are their central beliefs…

But in saying this, humans are humans and if the local government doesn’t adhere to the ‘teaching’ but instead opts for a different approach to things [which is normally the case when influenced by the West or for that matter Eastern communistic ideals or authoritarianism ] then it’s quite possible this tolerance level that once was the norm, begins to change and not necessarily for the better- Miramar is a good example and if one looks at the history of pre colonial India one will find under Hindu rule ‘homosexuality’ was tolerated, it was only to do with British rule that laws were put into place that discriminated against homosexuality, and sadly since their departure, these laws still exist …

Gay and transgender people in Buddhist countries might not have ‘full’ recognition, but unlike here in the West, they don’t fear for their lives, that is, when out and about they are not targeted…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_topics_and_Buddhism

On the whole, people who are brought up in Buddhist societies tend to be more tolerant towards gay and transgender people, because of their ‘Buddhist’ beliefs !

However I understand where you're coming from, in regards to full recognition some Buddhist countries have some way to go, but as far as tolerance goes, if you visit a Buddhist country you'll see for yourself…

Metta Zenda:)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

Hello :-)

I do wonder if this hypothesis you mentioned is a causal one. It would mean Mr. Woods is coming back quite a few times as a hotshot transwoman golfer. Oh dear.

Heather

Kia Ora Heather,

:rolleyes: It's possible because of the karmic result the next time he comes back he could end up being a 'trans-caddy' :D;)

Metta Zenda :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JazzySmurf

Hi Zenda :-)

I do wonder what would be a good prayer for him. In the lack of any clear favorites: may he be safe, may he be happy, may he be healthy, may he live with ease.

Have a wonderful day. :-)

Heather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

Hi Zenda :-)

I do wonder what would be a good prayer for him. In the lack of any clear favorites: may he be safe, may he be happy, may he be healthy, may he live with ease.

Have a wonderful day. :-)

Heather

Kia Ora Heather,

:rolleyes: Another way of looking at this [from Buddhist perspective that is], is "Karma helps those who help themselves!" Bearing in mind one's 'karma is ones personal karma' and for every action there's a reaction...

:rolleyes: No matter what prayers or well wishes one says/has for Tiger,in the long run it's Tiger's karma and he is fully responsible for his actions and the outcomes...One can only 'hope' his actions become as 'skillful' in life, as they are on the golf course...

Metta Zenda :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JazzySmurf

Hi Zenda :-)

We are all interconnected :-) By wishing one well, we wish all well.

May we all be safe, may we all be happy, may we all be healthy, may we all live with ease.

Have a wonderful day. :-)

Heather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

Kia Ora Heather,

:rolleyes: We're all interconnected it's true, I don't have any ill will towards Tiger or for that matter any sentient being...I'm very aware of what both he and his wife are going through and have compassion for both equally, I wish them well, but they and they alone must develop the skillful means to overcome/work through the karmic impact of 'both' their actions...

In other words they must accept what 'is' and move on...

"Sabbe Dhamma Nalam Abhinivesaya!"

"Nothing 'Whatsoever' Should Be Clung To!"

Metta Zenda :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JazzySmurf

Hi Zenda :-)

We are all in this together. Though some of us are leading more virtuous lives and some of us are leading less virtuous lives, at the end of the day we are still, together, part of a larger picture. So, we help each other out. :-)

Have a wonderful day.

Heather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zenda

Kia Ora Heather,

:rolleyes: Again what you say is true...But we can't take away/stop their karmic experience,we can only try to help ease their suffering...And how one does this would depend on the individual and what means they have at their disposal...

Metta Zenda :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JazzySmurf

Hi Zenda :-)

One can always find a way to help, if one tries well enough. Because helping others is tremendously beneficial to our own karmic experience, therefore we should try our best to help all others. :-)

Have a wonderful day.

Heather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Cynthia Of Creation

A chinese friend told me

Thailand is a "Mans Paradise" were he can get anything and i do mean ANYTHING he wants there. but only a Man,

not a trans women or women. from what i can gather

Share this post


Link to post
Guest CharlieCLA

I can't tell you how nervous I've been about transgenderism and buddhism since becoming buddhist. Even knowing that someone in my sangha is a lesbian didn't make me fear it much less. I'm constantly worried about stuff like, if I get top surgery what will that mean to my sangha. Or where would I go if I wanted to get more serious about buddhism, since monastic orders are sexually segregated from what I could tell. But I feel better after reading this thread. Thank you for posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest CharlieCLA

Hi, Megan.

I sort of stumbled onto a Tibetan monastery in my hometown and went there for their intro Buddhist stuff once I decided to start pursuing Buddhism. It's a rather small monastery and is pretty open to laymen. I'm not as familiar with Zen Buddhism, other than hearing it is more strict than Tibetan. I've seen other people practice Zen, but not asked a lot about it myself.

The running joke I have with myself is that I'm Buddhist, but not a very good one. It's become less and less often, but mainly I say this because I have a very bitter outlook on the past and present, and end up not liking a lot of people. I still try to be optimistic about the future, and try to keep my heart open to love and compassion. It doesn't always work.

I'm worried my fear of rejection is one of the big things preventing me from being more committed to my practice. That is, getting more involved in the weekly prayers and other ceremonies. I'm also hesitant about anything new and don't want to pray when I don't understand the meaning of the prayers. Yet I am hesitant to ask about them so I can understand them. On sunday morning, after the intro Buddhist talks, members of the Sangha will sit with tea and talk. But I haven't felt close to anyone yet. It's friendly chatter, but nothing that involves asking other people to share life outside of the monastery's grounds. It probably doesn't help that the Sangha for intro level is so small and no one's really around my age.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest

Hi Charlie,

I've practiced with the local Tibetans here as well as having practiced Zen. The sangha you're with sounds different than the one here, because most everything here was in English and easy to understand. But, I do imagine that yours has that same open and happy personality that I found here. It's possibly more for expatriated Tibetans and less American - but the beliefs should be much the same.

But, with either Zen or Tibetan Buddhism, it's less about understanding, and more about doing the practice. By joining wholeheartedly in the practice, even if you're not perfect (or even close to it), you'll become more relaxed, and those fears of rejection should diminish. So, I'd encourage you to join in, even if you don't understand - and ask questions when you do feel relaxed. But, practice, practice!

I do have to issue this disclaimer: I'm just a student on a path, and by no means can claim expertise!

I'll be interested to hear how you're doing, okay?

Love, Meg

Share this post


Link to post
Guest CharlieCLA

Hi Meg,

There are some expatriated Tibetans, yes. But the intro stuff is all English and caters to area residents and students. The intermediate stuff like Tsog offerings are Tibetan and Lama Choepa practice is Tibetan but given translation. It's mostly the Tsog offerings I'm hesitant to attend. I'm still nervous about Lama Choepa practice because I'm worried about etiquette. There's mainly two monks and one Lama at my sangha. I've been less nervous asking questions of the American monk, even though I wish it didn't matter to me.

And it's ok. We're all students! (unless there's a Lama or other enlightened being on this forum somewhere...)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest

I didn't attend the "empowerment" ceremonies at my Tibetan Temple either. There is a level of mysticism in Tibetan Buddhism that didn't feel comfortable to me, as a Zen student more accustomed to a "Just Emptiness" practice. But, as a Buddhist practice, regardless of the mystical power of the ceremonies, it would be good to join in. It's a bit like being trans: you have to start somewhere, and the monks and even the Lama started at the beginning just like you are. Don't be afraid!

Love, Meg

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   3 Members, 0 Anonymous, 175 Guests (See full list)

    • Dakota16
    • SamanthaC
    • MaryMary
  • Topics With Zero Replies

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      68,736
    • Total Posts
      620,415
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      5,540
    • Most Online
      8,356

    MadMax
    Newest Member
    MadMax
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Arcis27
      Arcis27
      (32 years old)
    2. MSKT1998
      MSKT1998
  • Posts

    • Jani
      Ha Ha!     Good news.  I'l glad to read you're doing fine.    Cheers, Jani 
    • Jani
      You and your husband are so sweet Debra!  I'm sure you'll all be happy and reap many benefits.   Good morning Kymmie!!  
    • Charlize
      Debra it is lovely that you are doing this.  You are getting an ally as well as a daughter. A blessing!   Hugs,   Charlize
    • Maid In Bedlam
      I have been reading a few threads regarding trans Homicide. It got me thinking.     We are even allocated a special day. Transgender day of rememberance to remind us of and to recall and in our own way grieve for our fallen brothers and sisters who have been murdered for there right to express themselves in the manner they feel is right for them. I also have found articles online expressing that Trans homicides are  now at an  and I quote "Epidemic Levels". Are they faking it and Scaring people into hiding? Not revealing ourselves for fear of mortal demise. Or are we trying for some kind of hysteria? Should we be scared? Should we all fear the reaper when we leave what we regard as a safe place? particully whenever this day of remeberance comes personally it reminds me that my life could be in danger. Regardless of how well you fit into the social norms and with no regard of how well you pass if thats the word you like to use. So I decided to actually look at the figures to see how this panned out. The figures do tell quite an interesting story . Let me take the UK for instance. The total number of Trans persons murdered in the UK Between October 2017 to September 2018 was 1 The total number of homicides for this time period was 726 murders. population  66.04 Million So just one person was murdered. because of there trans status out of Seven hundred and Twenty Six persons. I personally do not consider this an epidemic of murders against the Trans comunity.  To put this into perpective. Just Deaths from road accidents were 1,710 for this time period.   So I decided to look a little deeper. Remember our figures will be lower in my opnion because firearms offences are very rare for us. Lets now take the United States same Time frame. Murders assiociated with being trans 28. Total number of murders in the United states for the same time period. 17,284  So considering the amount of recorded homicides it again is hardly an epidemic. Population 327.2 million Now lets look into the highest recorded number of trans related homicides in the world. Brazil. Which I consider a much more violent country in general if you go by population to homicide rate. With a total of 167 out of a total number of recorded homicides of 63,880. Population 209.3 Million I have taken the step of leaving out any statistics on if these people were in the Sex industry or not and just rounded it up. who would by default have a higher chance of being a victim of homicide. as a murder is still a murder regardless.   The population of the world is estimated at 7.53 Billion and the total global trans related murders 369 for the time period   Even Turkey Who by definition dislike anything Trans related theres only 7     So in reality being murdered because of your trans status is still very rare considering the total of Homicides in general. In saying that One murder is One to many. Not only is the person had there life taken from them The ripples from that effect so many others in a life changing way.  Murder is a Horible crime. Taking another life in this way is wrong on every level regardles of the reasons behind  For me Trangender day of remembrance should still be the day when we recall the fallen. But do not let it make you in fear of your life. As in reality it is still not an epidemic. This day. When it comes to pass again I will still spend time thinking of those who have had there lives taking from them for what they stand for in the same way I remember The fallen from conflicts on rememberance Sunday but will now understand that I am not in mortal danger as soon as i walk out of my door. I hope this has also made any of you who have been scared to reveal yourselfs to the world in the belief your in peril.   We are all in danger going by the statistics but not for being trans and most certainly not for being anything other than ourselves Link to figures here   Transrespect Versus Transphobia Worldwide. This is the source of figures often cited by trans campaigners.   Please bare in mind there is not yet an official, standardised method for recording the deaths of trans people across the UK or indeed world wide. But these are the figures widely used and accepted   Do you agree? Should we still be scared? have i missed something fundamental in my conclusion? Please do correct me if im wrong. Forums are for disscussion.     Please note I could do another thread on hate crime but I am considering Homicide for the purpose of this post as this is what the day in question is about and for the fallen. It does make me thinkthe public in general  are being deliberatly misled.   So to sumerise. Dont panic whenever you open the newspaper  In reality you are more likely to get hit by a bus crossing the street than you are being a victim of homicide. So be safe. Be careful and dont put yourself in danger. Pre emptive common sense is always the best safety net.   On another note if God forbid anything ever happened to me I would personally like to be remembered as a fallen woman and not as a trans related statistic. This is what I strive to be
    • Arya
      Here's an update: I think I have started my period some months ago. Every month, I get brown discharge from my genital area and the scars occur at the same time. I haven't told my parents about it. It seems so weird to tell them! I have also noticed another weird thing. During my mid cycle(ovulation time, probably) I always get a nosebleed. I checked the net and found that women with pcos have such nosebleeds whenever they ovulate. 
    • Charlize
      What i see in this story is alcohol.  Too often drink is involved problems aren't far behind. As an active alcoholic i got myself into trouble on several occasions.  Sobriety makes that much less likely today even though i have fully transitioned.   Hugs,   Charlize
    • Timber Wolf
      Good morning everyone,   Happy Birthday MSKT1998!🎂 Happy Birthday Arcis27!🎂 Hope you have a great day!   Lots of love, Timber Wolf 🐾
    • KymmieL
      I agree that you did the right thing. However if it escalates make sure you document every word this creep is saying. Then let law enforcement handle it. But be prepared to defend yourself if the need arises.   Kymmie
    • KymmieL
      50 pages of no drama, Yeah. Let's keep this thread going as we have just us being us and sharing our little corner of the world.   Kymmbrell Lorain
    • KymmieL
      I agree about being safe. Even though I am a Harley Davidson riding biker witch. I am not a drinker, the last drink I can remember was in 2006. I choose not to drink. I try not to frequent places where my safety would be at risk. But in this day and age, that could be anywhere from the local gas station to Wally world.   Be safe all.   Kymmie
    • Maid In Bedlam
      Be aware If your in the UK there is a shortage of estrogen products Mainly patches. But this will filter down to Pills etc very soon I believe as they precribe alternative products.   want to know more?   and from the beeb   I had my Patches restocked about 2 weeks ago. However this was a stuggle  I have been been given a few boxes of a diffrent brand and am still waiting from a phone call from the chemist to complete my order. So If you havent got them yet then be prepared for troubled waters for a while.   Not that im a pesamist but if the Goverment have got involved then i wouldnt hold your breath that we are going to see anything changing very soon.
    • Maid In Bedlam
      Ok I can update on this now. After all the tests.   Which were. Many Blood tests. Mainly blood work etc. Iron Studies Ultrasound of my upper abdomin. Checks Liver, Stomach, Gall Bladder, Kidneys, Etc etc   In a nutshell.   Yes HRT Can potentially raise ferritin levels Thats from my gender therapist not i just pulled it out of google. Mine are raised. However Not by much. At least nothing to be concerned about. Being honest depending on where you go Mine could read normal. But in the NHS scale im about 100 higher than i should be. Which in reality is very little considering you would only have a problem if you was over the 1500's   My iron is normal just the ferritin is raised which as stated above could be hrt However it could also be i did exercise after toast with a big dollop of marmite.   Yes I love marmite.   So it would appear im out of the woods. So your stuck with me for a little longer.
    • Sharon Aml
      Hi  I hope as your journey begins you find that peace that we on the same journey have found. As I started my HRT it confirmed everything for me. It was like driving a car that you drove all your life it’s all you knew. All of a sudden someone puts the gasoline in instead of diesel fuel the car runs better than before               If it’s truly your path you will know just take things one day at a time                       Best of luck to you                              Sharon Aml
    • Maid In Bedlam
      I ask this question. I assume in the picture is the transsexual woman in question. In my opnion there is nothing there to openly give away that she was anything else other than a woman. Therefore how did this attacker know she was a Transsexual?  Attacks physically or verbally on anyone is very wrong regardless but why was she singled out? I also note the article is very poorly written. Im no Grammer expert. Far from it But theres a big diffrence between Cheese cakes and Pea cakes. I would assume this is a translation error. However It would have been nice to have been proof read before publication (Thats something the daily mail wouldnt do) I noticed also it doesnt give her name. Which to me seems strange as shes happy to share her picture.  Btw its nice to see someone other than me still use the word Transsexual in there describrition. I was under the impression that this word was only used to describe Dinosaurs and people like me. So yay if its making a comeback     So Malta gay Rights movement Ask these questions. Why is the alledged perpertrator got his face pixelated. Name and shame.  If he did whats alledged. This is a way to catch him i would have been inclined to think. So he could be punnished for this alledged  crime. If a crime has happened. Your not gonna catch him if you cannot identify him. Msida only has a population of 8,545  or there abouts he wont be to hard to find.   It doesnt sway from the fact. LETS ALL BE CAREFULL OUT THERE.  Dont put yourself in a postion where you dont feel you can not remove yourself from with haste. Stay safe
    • Maid In Bedlam
      One sided story. Its a Media thing. It makes news to portray the trans person as the one that was the victim. I would really like to know what happened before they was chucked out. Was it justified?  They never told you the reasons and what was said. All you see is people being thrown out. Wheres the interview with the straight hetro couple. My god why so many labels? It wouldnt have made the news if they wasnt trans. If they had not had such a heavy drinking session as Vicky highlighted then perhaps this wouldnt have happened. It was noted the amount of booze was flowing. I know women that butter wouldnt melt in there mouths. if they are sober but get a drink in them and they are like wild banshees. Me personally if i have had one to many ill just giggle a lot and smile like a chesire cat   I will grant you they was a little heavy handed.  Surely thats assault. Maybe the trans group should seek legal advise instead of protesting?
  • Upcoming Events

×
×
  • Create New...