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Gonna Try And Take A Break


Guest Orva26

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Okay so all this talk of need and want, and how humans can move a want to a need and which of those groups should transition has me all kinds of confused regarding my own situation.

Now I know the catch all for this site is, "Confused?! Well then pony up with a therapist!" but as I have said nearly every time it has been suggested. I will be in the future but cannot right now due to financial reasons. So please don't come in here thinking that will sooth me. Responses consisting of only that will be viewed as how they are for me right now, utterly useless.

For about a week straight now I have allowed myself minor feminization. Wearing female undergarments (well aside from when I work out/shower), leaving my toenails painted and even keeping a clear coat of polish on my fingers. I have just removed all of the polish and it did not feel like a relief, it felt like something I had to will myself to do. Right now un-feminizing feels exactly like that, something I need to do in order to see how it makes me feel.

There are two big reasons for this test. One is that I will need to un-feminize for when my ex visits, that is the practical reason. The second is the more deep one. I can't turn it off anymore. Before when things were purely sexual I could self gratify and then BAM! I'm a 'normal' guy and this wasn't a concern until I thought about it and became aroused again. But now the desire to do that has dropped, that feels dirty, I do not want that to become my existence again, a disgusting little secret that I actually have shame for enjoying because now I have come to realize that my "neat kink" was much closer to a sickness or plague. It creeps into my mind whenever I let it idle.

Its as if reading about the actual process of transitioning, realizing it could be feasible, and participating in this great community as I have caused a switch in my brain to flip, one that cannot be flipped back. And that is what really has me horrified... I have been connecting dots from my past but is that all rationalization, i.e. a way my mind can transfer a want to a need or whatever other stupid crap it might try to do. Am I a TS who should transition or am I just an utter freak in love with the idea of physically transforming my body?

I'm tearing up writing this but I am going to try something I have seen suggested here and that is to not have a TG thought, or at least concentrate on them for a whole day. If they come I will let them though because browbeating them away is just plain unhealthy. And that means I will be gone for at least that amount of time. I really want to try and see how far I can push myself, see how long I can stay away until I come crawling back. Hehehe, like I'd be strong enough to stay away, I couldn't even will myself to NOT post here about this plan.

Anyway, baby steps, one day without the playground or minor feminization and I'll hope it gives me some clarity. In the meantime, any thoughts, concerns, or stories of a similar thing would be welcome for when I come back.

<3

Orva

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  • Admin

Some time to reflect on things is valuable and useful. Introspection certainly doesn't require a therapist.

I can tell how much on edge you've been lately, Orva, and it is a concern. But at least you have us for a sounding board.

We'll be here when you return, whenever that happens to be, and will welcome you, whatever your state of mind happens to be. Take your time, and I hope you feel better about yourself and your situation.

Carolyn Marie

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Guest sarah f

Orva once that door is open then there is no stopping the flood of emotions it brings. I always knew I was supposed to be a girl but I kept putting her away and just hide the fact. She always came back until last December and thn I couldn't lock her away anymore. That door was opened and so I am sitting here typing this after being on hormones for 8 months.

I can only offer love and support for you and hope you can come to terms with this side of you.

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Orva,

I hope you'll find some peace of mind on your walkabout...

The sad thing, here, is that you and I have the same problem: "TS vs freak show"... I hate to think of it in such harsh terms, but I have to admit it comes pretty close to...

Any time (when I was much younger) I thought "hey, I wanna be girl", I wrote off those ideas as pipe dreams... I had been told I was a boy, and I accepted it without any hesitation...

Even when I first learned of what transsexuals are, I thought to myself "I can't be one of them, the odds are just too small." Yes, that's right. I hid behind the odds, always being content in the knowledge that I'm simply a part of a sizable (if not majority) statistic: "one out of ±6,5 billion people", "one out of ±3 billion men", "one out of ±17 million Dutch"...

The only thing that would be considered a minority, would be my Asperger's; which, by now, I'm seriously doubting as having been properly diagnosed...

Just the realisation I may actually be part of that tiny, minority statistic (being TS), forced open a mental floodgate of titanic proportions; and it brought forth a deluge...

I have not been able to keep my mind off of all this for more than, oh, seven or eight hours. You know why? Because I was unconscious, I was asleep...

I really hope you'll find the peace and quiet you need; I know I do...

Love,

Tiaria

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Guest Emily Ray

Orva,

I don't think you are experiencing anything different than many of us have. One of my more poignant memories from the past took place in the 8th grade. We had an excellent teacher and one day he taught about the process of transition as it was then. I can remember thinking to myself "Two years! I could never go through with it" I have ADHD and I am lucky to complete anything and at 13 two years seemed to me to be an eternity. But, last December when I was thinking "Could I really be a transsexual" this memory flooded back along with many others! This one sealed the deal though. I decided that I was the only boy day dreaming of the possibility of changing my sex. If I was thinking that way as a early pubescent boy than it must really be who I am.

Take your break and know that whatever you decide we all love you here at Laura's

Huggs

Emily

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It is unfortunate that feelings of shame, being dirty, etc are all too common.

Then you have people within the community who talk about how they are real women. Such declarations tend to convey the idea that those who aren't doing what they are (i.e. transitoning) aren't real women. In private I have heard enough who have expressed things which confirm that idea.

So those who aren't transitioning are left to feel they are less. I can't count the number of time I seen someone say "I am just a CD". The key word "just" showing how much they feel they are less.

Mix all this together, and you end up with a formula where those feelings of shame, feeling dirty, etc can easily end up getting amplified. This creates pressure to be part of all that, to not be the man with a shameful fetish.

It really disturbs me that someone can't just enjoy who they are, that in this culture such words have a bad connotation and can be a source for shame. I think it is really ufair and think it is doubly unfair that this community in subtle ways can reinforce that.

And if that isn't enough pressure, you get bombarded by those saying "they felt just the same", "it is totally normal" or somehting like that. But look at it who are those saying that? Most are those who either haven't started to transition, just planning, or who are in transition up to a year or two after. By comparison, how many have really been there and lived it 5 or 10 years to give a long perspective on it? Very few if any.

Personally, I admire anyone who has a healthy outlet. Can enjoy being themselves and not be so disturbed to have to endure such dramatic and radical treatments as transition and SRS.

Orva, I can't say where you fit in all this. Things I say aren't specifically directed at you, but touch on larger patterns I have seen over the past decade within the community. What I have appreciated about you is your way of being honest about your feelings and expressing things that many who feel some of the same might not admit to themselves (much less others). And to do so in a forum where there are people who would look down on your admission also takes courage. For that you have my admiration.

If we can't build upon honesty, we are only left with shifting sands which makes a poor foundation for future growth.

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Guest therisa

Orva, I understand the frustration and fears, you are facing, now. There was a time, which I seriously questioned my mental sanity, in regards to being a TS. I was living a dual live at the time, and it was destroying both my physical and emotional health. So take your time and find your innerpeace, before deciding what is the right next stage for you, to take. Either way, you have my support and admiration, over your honesty as Drea, mentioned in her post. Best of luck.

therisa

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Well folks, about 12 hours later and one tiny bit of cheating (a quick view of this topic at around 10pm) Orva is back! At least 24 hours my foot! Lasted about 1.5 hours until thoughts started creeping back into my brain. I don't know exactly when but it became strongly apparent that disallowing myself access to this forum is very much a bad idea right now. I don't have regret for doing it because it was something I needed to try and something that doing forces me to reconcile with the parts of my past that wouldn't exactly hold up to the rules here.

Sometimes I feel like I spend too much time on here but today has shown me that I at least need to allow myself to spend time on here when the mood strikes. Is that a weakness, compulsion, or need, honestly who the hell knows? In order to make it work I had to allow myself the compromise of being able to write thoughts in the black sketchbook I have which at this point is something that I MUST find a secure place to keep. Today it gained 16 pages of written thought and occasionally drawings.

In the spirit of the honesty that you great people hold me in admiration for and at the risk of transferring that to disdain for the same quality and of me in general I want to share my low point of today, the recording of one of my most twisted and shameful actions, one that truly makes me feel a leper. It will be mostly un-edited (well aside from the super swearing parts) and spelling/grammatical errors left in tact to convey my mental state. May this mark me with stigmata even here, maybe but I am compelled to share/type it. Here we go:

This one is interrupting the cardio exercise of going up and down the stairs 10 times!

So I've messed with fetish hypnotism in the past, real disgusting and vile stuff. A completely un-healthy endeavor and for that I am ashamed. It was also a horride waste of time and a most pathetic escape, lying for hours as sardic words are mumbled into my brain. I have since sworn it off because it is one of the things that makes me feel monsterous, an awful person, that might be as I fear and dread a freaking sicko that has fetishized this. :(

Here I will in truth detail it, one of my attempted methods to become in touch with my feminity, one of the methods I am the most sorry I attempted, one that makes me feel truly pathetic, the only event in my life I consider a sin, not against a god or a devil for I believe in niether but against myself, something I feel has tainted my very existance.

The subject of the hypnosis ranged from instilling a desire to cross-dress and the courage to buy clothing (which I always have been curious to try or at least the curosity to try it had increased in weeks leading up to the hypnosis), to hypnosis meant to try and cause a hormonal shift and cause the growth of breast and feminine hips/buttocks in males (this being my favorite and I still hope that HRT will give me a nice bottom), and even dabbling with some meant to aid TS in accepting their internal identity (though that not so much because it was scary and because of cautions that it might induce dementias in 'normal' fellas).

The ones that were meant for cross-dressing and to cause hormone changes had addictive elements built in and I was becoming addicted. I am lucky in that I never fell into hard drugs (only have been drunk or high on occasion) but for a few months I did have a drug one potentially more vile than physical ones. These brought me euphoric happiness but it was ALL HALLOW, ARTIFICAL, SUPERFICIAL, AND WHOLLY FREAKING PATHETHIC! I have broke the addiction w/ the aid of a file meant to and my own will. I fear that there might be residues, that I didn't break things enough but I've had TG tendencies for a while!

The one meant to help TS with acceptance was kinder in tone I believe. Maybe even a legitament attempt to do just that but I hardly think anyone with files at www.________.com is a legitament hypnotherapist, though some may be. I really hope the user ___________ who made this file in question was. That file gave me something the others didn't, instead of merely euphoric happiness it gave me a soothing calm or at least I believe it did. I only listened to it maybe 3 times compared to the around 15 to 20 times I think I listened to the other ones. I'll admit I kind of want to revisit this file to see how it makes me feel now but I don't want to cause potiental harm and am scared of it.

Regardless of if it was/is legitamate writing this down has gotten me emotional. I've nearly cried thinking myself as a blight, a stain, on a real community, almost as if I am a cancer.

I do think that hypnosis could be benefical if it is legitamate, but is the idea to find legitamate hypnosis and the fact that I occasionally get aroused, like I do by thinking of myself as female including the shame, on occasion at the prospect of being hypnotized indicate that I am a SICK FREAK?

Is this something that TS experience, i.e. a desire for hypnotism? I've written a lot about this but I don't think it will be the last thing on the subject. I have nothing else constructive to write, I'm going to read this over, contemplate posting it on Laura's, eat an apple and play some video games.

All the underlining was in the text version too. There is also another paragraph that I had to admit because of its extremely explicit sexual nature that I don't think I can modify to meet the standards of the rules. There now its all out there... biggest reason for my doubt, well that and the one other thing I can't post here. I apologize for the length and any offense this might bring but much like my aunt who would smoke a pack of cigs in two days and tell me not to touch them I wanted to do the same for this hypnotism business, hence why the site and user are omitted. And now I end with some Bleeding Through lyrics I have/had a hieghtened sense of identity with:

so was it worth the game to lose our purities?

won't wear the crown of thorns.

won't wear the mask of judas.

i'll never be who you want me to be.

you'll never see the beauty i see.

mark me for death.

mask me for torture.

Darn I was trying to not let this do this to me a second time, but confronting it has made me feel sad and worthless. I'm going to go curl up in this blanket I got and vanish for a bit, doubt I'll sleep. Please leave some thoughts, concerns, and if you can be as brutally honest as I just have and let me know what you genuinely think.

-Orva

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Guest Emily Ray

Orva

I am happy that you had the courage to speak about this. It is a topic that you are not alone in dealing with though you may ba alone in talking about it. I have been to those sites and I no others here have as well. I have studied a bit about hypnosis on a more scolarly level and I highly doubt you suffered any detrimental harm from what you have listend to. You have had these thoughts long ago before you knew what they were even. Before Testosterone turned them into a fetish. I honestly don't believe a true TS could have a fetish about cross dressing. It comes down to one thing and it is something only you can answer. Our diagnosis is self made. The only reason the doctor or GT is involved is to make sure it isn't anot5her mental illnes that we can't self diagnos like schizophrenia or a personality disorder and an axis two diagnosis. You haven't shown any signs of either of them. I am not a doctor, but I believe you belong here. Along my path to get here I have done many thing I am not proud of. Now I see that they were symptoms of my disorder and my lack of knowledge about it. As I look back all those fetish activities led me to the ultimate truth, I am a MTF transsexual. I had a hard time admiting in public that I cross dressed as a child. I am wearing a skirt for petes sake. I don't need to feel guilt and shame about what I did at any point in the disorder. I was sick. I was confused. I had no where else to turn. I was lost and without guidance. I feard my whole life would come crashing down around me if I breathed a word of it to anybody. You have done nothing to feel ashamed about I hold you with respec for the courage you have shown here and I dare say no one will hold you in contempt on th is site for what you have described

Huggs

Emily

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Sigh...

I was expecting you back, by now, although I was hoping you would hold out at least the twenty four hours you were hoping for... And you're completely right: walling yourself up is not a good idea. I keep plenty of notes for my therapist, myself, although it's not quite a diary, yet... It seemed like a good idea, at the time, and I think it still is.

In a much earlier thread, I vented plenty of raw emotions in an opening post. One the replies (I can't remember from whom) suggested trying to go at least twenty four hours without consciously puzzling on these things. I immediatly answered I had been trying just that, without much luck... JJ (aka. 'John') saw my response, and told me (not his exact words) that not being able to shut it all out for such a period of time is a major red flag. (Or maybe a pink one...?)

As for hypnosis: it only seems logical to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly in the position to judge, myself...

I can only hypothesise on this, but it makes sense, to me at least:

Over time, we had grown used to the idea of being cross dressers, or just being plain 'weird', sometimes... That is, until the realisation hit that there may be a deeper cause. When that realisation hit, we lost any stable hold we had on the world (as we knew it) and, thus, became extremely confused, and started a desperate search for answers to the questions we suddenly found ourselves facing...

In this regard, it is only understandable that, in our desperation, we'd be ready to accept any answer, as long as it would make sense. And what better than having it whispered (in monotone) into your own subconscious? These are just my thoughts on this matter. Please, feel free to tell me what you think of it.

Love,

Tiaria

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I forgot to mention something in my previous post, so here goes:

You also shouldn't discount the power of survival instincts. What is perhaps the biggest reason for being apprehensive towards the notion of being TS is pure survival instinct.

We, and a lot of folks here at Laura's, have been used to thinking about ourselves in a certain manner, and seeing ourselves in a certain light. So, if anything comes along that questions that view on ourselves, we try to dismiss it, at first. Simply put, it calls into question your deepest beliefs, your own self image... Those beliefs forms the foundation for the structure that is 'you'... And you can't build something without proper foundations...

Hence, the power of your survival instincts: the very realisation of the possibility of being TS is so profound, and would entail such fundamental changes in your life, you'd much rather run away, or turn and fight. There you have it: 'Fight or flight'...

Again, feel free to tell me what you think of it.

Love,

Tiaria

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Guest Emily Ray

Yes, my dear Orva, you will not find condemnation here! I can't condemn someone for doing and behaving in the same way that I have. Yes, much of what you are feeling right now is related to fight or flight or freeze the third option. We arenot however, animals. We have a forebrain and are capable of abstract thought. We can delay gratification if a bigger reward is worth the wait. That is the part of you that needs to make this decision. When you were younger you sacrificed yourself at the alter of conformity. Now you need to decide i f it is time to take back your life and live.

Huggs,

Emily

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Guest ChloëC

Hey, Orva,

Please, please don't ever feel that in the privacy of your own place, doing whatever makes you feel good (and doesn't cause physical harm) is somehow 'bad' for you. That is a very outdated and totally worthless concept left over from the English Victorian and Edwardian times, where any sexual activity including male-female coupling was considered gross and dirty, but that last one was barely acceptable because it allowed for the continuation of the species. Except that neither of you were supposed to enjoy it.

How disgusting that attitude has been and how it has come close to ruining many, many fine, decent people.

Nobody should let it take over their lives, but there is no point to becoming chaste, unless that will actually make you feel even better (well, I guess for a very few, it may be remotely possible...but not likely).

Took me a while to get over that, um, hump, but like cross-dressing - at one time I thought that was 'dirty' and 'shameful', and the thought of transitiong!!!!

Orva, you are a wonderful and great person. Just do what you need to do, and try to do what makes you feel good, because it's about yourself. And sometimes, they both can be the same thing, and that feeling is marvelous.

Hugs

Chloë

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Daaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnggggggggg, even at my most horrid I only find kindness here.

<3

*There will be a longer post later I got stuffs I need to do!

Why should you not find kindness, here?

After all, we're all in this, together... Because we all have something in common...

I know, 'cause I wouldn't even be here, had I not. If I hadn't, I would never even looked for a place like this, and I'd live a 'normal' ("Define 'normal'...") life...

Anyways, awaiting a big-huge reply, give it your all!

Hugs,

Tiaria

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Guest sleeping chrysalid

I need to work on this too but it is important that we do not allow ourselves to consider anything we do to make ourselves feel more comfortable to be shameful. Shame is restrictive, paralyzing and unnecessary. We are who we are and what we do is nothing to be ashamed of. I am also having difficulty getting over a sense of shame as well as a sense of embarrassment but I realize it is something I need to overcome. We are both learning something from this forum.

To help answer your question, I only know that a desire for hypnosis is something I have experienced and while I think it is something that is common among Transsexual individuals it would probably be better to do a pole. I have never had an opportunity to try it but I often envisioned myself seeking out a hypnotherapist in the future. I can only tell you that I am an example that suggests the answer to your question is yes and while that is helpful I can not give a definite answer I can only help.

Did you spend some time bottling up your emotions between the time of your initial revelation and the point when you finally accepted yourself? I expected these several hours to be painful for you because I bottled it up for many years since my realization and I can not believe how much I tortured myself. It is not worth it to burry your true feelings and it is agonizing. I could not do it again and I can not stop thinking about my gender identity and I spend more time in the past than anywhere else. I also spend more time contemplating the future than I do in the present but not as much as I analyze my past. I can not shake these feelings even in my frozen life and it is a bad idea to try. I agree with Tiara that being able to go more than twenty-four hours without thinking about these things is a bad sign. I wish the human mind was capable of having more than one conscious thought at a time because it has started to affect my ability to pay attention in class and I was completely surprised by a test we were given a weeks notice for. Enough about me, the point is that genuine feelings like these should not be ignored.

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Anyways, awaiting a big-huge reply, give it your all!

Geez, now I am obligated to make this epic! :P

Alright so I'm going to start with an exert form the last thing I wrote at 3:25am last night:

Is it that self gratification has gotten dull like this because of a real TG issue or is it just that self gratification has gotten dull in general? Should I just be searching for the next "kink"? Or forcing my mind to sex as a male? I don't think that's right but I can't know it isn't. Ever the skeptic, always doubting, my own worst critic, I beat myself up despite my intellect and great accomplishments, can't even be certain w/ this plague of spirit.

The bold part is most relevant. A lot of replies to this topic have pointed out defense mechanisms/ survival instincts. How basically even if our identity is partially imposed on us it becomes our filter through how we view everything. And when something comes along that might shatter that, actually shatter is a nasty word lets go with evolve, it is the natural mental state to suppress it.

I cannot be certain because, as pointed out above, that is my particular character flaw/strength, skepticism. But I think that might have been what I have been doing. I have early memories, one very intense but wholly inappropriate for here due to its strong sexual connections, one of being in a female friend's room and finding a curiosity in her toys (never actual touched or played with them just was intrigued), and one that has returned recently is of a time where I was crabby and my dad jokingly suggested that since I was so moody that I get (female) hormone shots. I remember locking myself in my room after that in frustration but also clearly that later on I had a thought concerning that and it was, "Can that really work?" There are things that stand clear in my mind that really suggest that I am TG and my hopes for transitioning or at least HRT are not pipe-dreams (the constant fear lurking and waiting to strike in my mind).

For years I have let the manifestation of those thoughts be a fetish, something I could do in my alone time, something for me that would grant relief and enjoyment. Now that seems to have died, of the last time I self gratified I also wrote:

Immediately after it there was no confusion, no conflict, but no joy or relief I can speak of either... I guess that means there was emptiness.

And that is really what it was, emptiness. When orgasm becomes a "Meh" thing something is up. And that started very close or when I begun to seriously look into what transitioning or HRT would entail in real life. I remember finding that so much more fulfilling, and I still do find it so.

This is not the first time I have looked into TS condition in real life either. Way back (pppfffttt, like 5 years ago is way back) when I was a freshman in college and when the fetiziation of this was really beginning to take off I remember going on the wikipedia page for HRT, and for SRS in order to see how things were done in real life vs. just in stories. I remember spending a good amount of time reading on how the procedure is actually done and found it both gruesome (I'm sorry but looking at actual surgical photos that is what it appears as) and fascinating. I remember that it was almost a miniature research project that I was doing in spare time to learn.

I didn't just stop at wikipedia, I wandered my way on to a few well known Dr.s sites and even browsed patient pictures they had there and was surprised at the knowledge that after the final procedures they were virtual indistinguishable from natal females in appearance. The next question became, "Sure they look the same but what about function?" and I begun browsing a site hosted by a post-op MTF that I found (I cannot recall which). On her site she didn't spare any details and I spent a good amount of time reading about how she had to relearn how to be sexual after SRS, i.e. how she had to discover her physicality of it. That gave me the knowledge that sensation still existed after surgery and that it was similar to natal females. I also learned an interesting tid bit, that depending on placement the prostate can be stimulated through the vaginal wall acting similarly to the G-spot of natal females. I even remember looking up self gratification techniques of females and trying to emulate those, I'll spare the details as to how.

I do also remember when all of this stopped, when I moved to other areas of the site to find out things like, "How do you get these letters for HRT and SRS?" Turns out this particular transwoman was pretty much the poster child for primary transsexual expression. And reading what she went through I couldn't really identify with it since that archetype is not a good fit to me. I remember thinking searching in other places and pretty much only finding more stories/cases of primary transsexualism (it is of no fault of the courageous woman that put up those websites for the world to see but I just couldn't identify with that expression) and I thought something like, "Well then I guess I am not TS or TG in actuality." I think that is when I really started to retreat into self gratification and fetishization as if doing that was the best I could do, a compromise.

Now jump ahead in time to August of this year when that began to dull and I began to explore other venues like hypnosis and eventually ended up here as I am now in deep contemplation of my identity. I think the drop off of the satisfaction from previous methods is because once I did find something I could identify with, secondary TS mostly, that subconsciously I had realized that I might or have been running from that all along. On every level it makes sense. It is often said here that NO-ONE wishes to be TS, so it would be expected/natural for someone's mind to resist or flee from it in any manner possible/imaginable. I feel as if that is what my mind has been doing for years now by conceptualizing it as a fetish.

Please, please don't ever feel that in the privacy of your own place, doing whatever makes you feel good (and doesn't cause physical harm) is somehow 'bad' for you. That is a very outdated and totally worthless concept left over from the English Victorian and Edwardian times, where any sexual activity including male-female coupling was considered gross and dirty, but that last one was barely acceptable because it allowed for the continuation of the species. Except that neither of you were supposed to enjoy it.

How disgusting that attitude has been and how it has come close to ruining many, many fine, decent people.

Of this I will say, I think that the shame I have felt at those acts is largely a result of not understanding their cause and that deep down subconsciously and now consciously I have thought that I was running from their root cause. I have always tried to avoid external conflict, I have been branded as a wimp and a target to be picked on so the question I am posing to myself is have I been avoiding internal conflict as well? By cloaking it and masking it, allowing myself to parade it as something it truly isn't. There is also a component of disdain of these actions as if indulging in them has robbed me of time I could have been quantifying this for real.

There is also another aspect that I would like to illustrate. A key feature in many tg erotica stories that I have liked and have made is that whatever character gets their gender switched it is done in a way completely out of their control, i.e. they had little or no say in the matter. Sometimes it is even done as a form of retribution (once again jiving with the idea that no one WANTS to be TS/TG). I think that is why I did go and experiment with hypnosis for a while because in a truly 'good' trance one will be mentally in that state. I think my deep detest of that has to do with a new feeling, that I should not be attempting to lose control but rather to gain it fully and completely and that the hypnosis was just another form of running.

Another common theme is for the person getting transformed to end up as a complete air-head unable to rationalize the situation in their mind. I think my enjoyment of this is much similar to the enjoyment of hypnosis. The loss of control or inhibitions of the mind would mean the worry should go away. As much as I detest the thought it might be that the phrase, "Ignorance is bliss" holds a certain truth for me. I can no longer find happiness in such things because I am/am becoming very much un-ignorant of my situation.

Right now I believe that situation is indicated by the fact that I can most easily identify with secondary TS. I don't think anything else is really appropriate. I know that idea of HRT and the changes it will make to my body to make it physically and to an extent mentally feminine and the idea that could be right for me is something I cannot drive out of my mind when I think about this stuff. Since coming here I have tried, I really have to put myself with other classifications.

The first was cross-dresser. I have gotten some new cloths, not a lot due to my financial limbo but some. I have spent entire days cross-dressed (sans make-up due to expense) around my apartment. I found it really nice but I never reached the point of deep satisfaction with it. There was always the underlying thought of, "I really like this and it makes me feel good does that mean I should do more?" And the repeating feeling that wearing cloths and liking it was showing me it was okay to be girlish, that becoming a girl would be okay and right. I even have entertained the idea of wearing girls clothing as my normal clothing.

But looking back it was never about the clothing. When clothing was involved it was a vector in fantasy that would act to turn me into a girl. This whole issue is about the body, it isn't that I long to wear clothing but I long to have a feminine body. I can and have observed woman wearing outfits that I feel I would like to wear too but that is only part of what happens when I see them, that usually only focuses my attention to them. I don't exclusively want their clothing but feel it as un-attainable, that thought would be folly I have already purchased woman's clothing in major department stores so I KNOW I would have the courage to get them, but I want to wear the clothing as them.

IDK it is hard to explain without an example. Today I was in the DMV and there were a bunch of young woman there with their mothers getting their learners permit to drive. One in particular caught my attention because of her outfit and the oddity of a sweater skirt, but not like a long sweater that acts like a skirt, this was a skirt made out of sweater material. I sat there for a while pondering the article of clothing then examining the rest of her outfit before my mind shifted to thoughts of what it would be like to be a young woman taking an adventure with her mother into the crazy world of the DMV. I began to wonder what it would've been like if when I did the same years ago I went as a female instead of male. I watched her talk with her mother and wondered if I would've had the same kinds conversations.

The next group I tried to conceptualize myself in was androgynous. It is an impossible thing for me to believe that people are 100% male or 100% female so I figured I should explore and learn about the group that identifies as both or occasionally neither and see if I could find kinship there. I begun to imagine expressing myself with a blend of male and female clothing and spent a good day or two musing/thinking about it but then I realized what my mind was doing. It was using androgyny as an excuse to dope femininity into my actions/appearance. That if I was to pursue that all I would end up doing is steadily feminizing, that my brain was really constructing it as an intermediate and not a destination.

I cannot seem to picture, or my mind doesn't wish to picture a future in which I do not get to at least try HRT. I find the most kinship amongst TS and heightened sense of it amongst people who like me more meet the archetype of a secondary TS. I preferential browse the TS boards when I have time, though as of late I have mostly been concentrating on my own topics (not out of ego but because of time :lol: ) And when I spend time elsewhere on the internet and see the bodies of individuals partway through HRT or transition I can identify with them and see a goal for my image that motivates me to exercise. More and more I feel like I want to unveil myself as Orva but that prospect rightfully terrifies me. Its the great problem of knowing I have acceptance as a male and whether or not I will still have that acceptance as female. Should I walk the path that will put everything at risk but I believe would finally allow me to turn off these thoughts, i.e. I would need to imagine myself as female rather simply be female or should I stay were I am with the constant and often crippling longing to make a change? I don't wish to be forever doomed to the latter one.

Throughout this entire process I find that my musical taste and preference is returning to how it was in highschool. That I am enjoying more and more hardcore punk music and finding inspiration there. Seems like an odd place but it makes sense to me because of the attitudes prevalent in the music. I am truly learning why the songs that are my favorite a particular artist has released are my favorite. Today I will end with an exert for the song Forever by Throwdown before they sold out. :P (Heavily edited due to the cursing in the original of course. And modified slightly :lol: )

You dont know a single thing about me,

Just what my enemies say.

Well, screw them and screw you,

That crap wont cut it today.

I had responses planned for more of the replies but I've been working on this nearly straight since around 9:30pm and now it is almost 1am. Gotta stop for now. @_@ I'll try to get up another post tomorrow.

Edited by Carolyn Marie
Additional lyric lines removed due to copyright concern
Link to comment

Geez, now I am obligated to make this epic! :P

Whoa! This has got to be the Olympus Mons of posts!!

Is it that self gratification has gotten dull like this because of a real TG issue or is it just that self gratification has gotten dull in general? Should I just be searching for the next "kink"? Or forcing my mind to sex as a male? I don't think that's right but I can't know it isn't. Ever the skeptic, always doubting, my own worst critic, I beat myself up despite my intellect and great accomplishments, can't even be certain w/ this plague of spirit.

The bold part is most relevant. A lot of replies to this topic have pointed out defense mechanisms/ survival instincts. How basically even if our identity is partially imposed on us it becomes our filter through how we view everything. And when something comes along that might shatter that, actually shatter is a nasty word lets go with evolve, it is the natural mental state to suppress it.

"You're not the only one with mixed emotions..."

-Rolling Stones

I've been thinking negatively of myself since puberty, because I couldn't accept my having fantasies of such an explicite nature... Guess that was my first coping mechanism... I managed to keep it up 'till I was eighteen... Then, my cross dressing became more serious: that would be number two...

Five years later, I feel beached...

I cannot be certain because, as pointed out above, that is my particular character flaw/strength, skepticism. But I think that might have been what I have been doing. I have early memories, one very intense but wholly inappropriate for here due to its strong sexual connections, one of being in a female friend's room and finding a curiosity in her toys (never actual touched or played with them just was intrigued), and one that has returned recently is of a time where I was crabby and my dad jokingly suggested that since I was so moody that I get (female) hormone shots. I remember locking myself in my room after that in frustration but also clearly that later on I had a thought concerning that and it was, "Can that really work?" There are things that stand clear in my mind that really suggest that I am TG and my hopes for transitioning or at least HRT are not pipe-dreams (the constant fear lurking and waiting to strike in my mind).

"Scepticism is the language of the mind. What does your
heart
tell you?"

"My heart and I don't speak, anymore."

- Lorrien; Susan Ivanova (Babylon 5)

Susan stopped listening to her heart as, in her view 'all love [is] unrequited'...

So, now I ask you: "What does your heart tell you?" Mine hasn't stopped swearing at me (for a variety of reasons) for, oh, the last decade...<_<

I cannot seem to picture, or my mind doesn't wish to picture a future in which I do not get to at least try HRT. I find the most kinship amongst TS and heightened sense of it amongst people who like me more meet the archetype of a secondary TS. I preferential browse the TS boards when I have time, though as of late I have mostly been concentrating on my own topics (not out of ego but because of time :lol: ) And when I spend time elsewhere on the internet and see the bodies of individuals partway through HRT or transition I can identify with them and see a goal for my image that motivates me to exercise. More and more I feel like I want to unveil myself as Orva but that prospect rightfully terrifies me. Its the great problem of knowing I have acceptance as a male and whether or not I will still have that acceptance as female. Should I walk the path that will put everything at risk but I believe would finally allow me to turn off these thoughts, i.e. I would need to imagine myself as female rather simply be female or should I stay were I am with the constant and often crippling longing to make a change? I don't wish to be forever doomed to the latter one.

"Ah, is it just me or does anybody see?

The new improved tomorrow isn’t what it used to be...

Yesterday keeps comin’ ’round, it’s just reality...

It’s the same [darn] song with a different melody..."

- Opening lines for Bon Jovi's 'The More Things Change'

Me, too... But would it really change who you are? Just a few days ago, I posted on the depression forum, mentioning how the possibility of being TS seems to scare the crap out of me, even though I recognise it as a valid possibility... (Which I didn't, up to a month, ago...)

When I went to a trans friendly bar, for the first time, I felt a connection of sorts: I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, but they felt familiar, somehow... I had not one, not two, no, a dozen instances of Deja Vu, that Saturday night...

I had responses planned for more of the replies but I've been working on this nearly straight since around 9:30pm and now it is almost 1am. Gotta stop for now. @_@ I'll try to get up another post tomorrow.

And we'll be waiting, right here. ;)

Tiaria

Link to comment
This post has been edited by Carolyn Marie: Today, 01:13 AM

Reason for edit: Additional lyric lines removed due to copyright concern

Awwwwwwwwwww, I mean I understand and all but the second verse was really the meat of what I wanted to convey in posting the lyrics. Meh, with the song and band name people can look 'em up anyway, its all good!

"Scepticism is the language of the mind. What does your heart tell you?"

"My heart and I don't speak, anymore."

- Lorrien; Susan Ivanova (Babylon 5)

Susan stopped listening to her heart as, in her view 'all love [is] unrequited'...

That is the hard part. I've always rationalized, i.e. screened my emotions through the filter of logic. Getting picked on in school didn't help that any, if anything it has made me steel my emotions even from myself. I think I have slowly been relearning how to feel. I'm beginning to be able to really identity with a character vs. just share sentiments with them or merely think they are cool.

At some level I feel like being female is my heart's and my mind's deep desire, that it has been for a long time. But the real problem I face is whenever a conflict of any nature arise in my life my brain is all like, "HI ORVA! A PROBLEM?! NEATO!" *THINK THINK THINK*

That's all I got for now. I should sleep. There will be more though.

Link to comment
Guest Susan57

Hello Orva,

At this point, I have to thank you for what I think is the best thread I've ever read. This is the conversation I have been longing to find--anywhere, with someone who has been to these places. Even my therapist does not quite get it like someone who is in this place. Our states of mind are shockingly similar but you are smart enough to sort these things out a bit faster and in a more organized fashion than I have--while you still have a major chunk of your life ahead of you. I have tried to assemble these kinds of notes for my therapy sessions but never quite got it done with such honest, raw open-ness. Thank you.

Some remaining questions that have caused me to pause--some are cold and mean but it's a good way to test one's armor and brain:

Are you a girl? ...this is a primary ts question--so a little unfair

Are you a man? ...perhaps not an alpha male but which side of center is your brain on along the spectre

Are you believable as a woman? ...or would you be ostracized as such

Are you believable as a man? ...or do you just fake it to fit in

If you had a feminized body, could you live as a man? ...do you just have to know that your body matches your inner personality

If you had srs could/would you live as a woman? ...do you just think you need hormones or full feminization

If you had srs could/would you live as a man? ...could you envision this, is it a liveable compromise

Do you wish you were just born a girl so this would not be an issue? ...this always seems the perfect cure for me, how unfortunate

What body and lifestyle combination fits your ideal? ...even with a feminized body are there times and situations that you would be more comfortable in male clothes and the male role

In a utopian world what would you be? ...starting from your present situation

Do you have some questions along these lines that you have pondered?

I have asked myself these and some I him and haw at. Some of these my wife has asked me and some she has told me her answers based on what she sees in me and knows about me. How would your friends and family (people who know you well--sort of) answer some of these (they obviously can't know some of them)?

I also know that I am not a cross dresser (it is not about the clothes) and I am not a primary TS (not enough of a female brain) and it is not about arousal (so I am not a match for the formal definition of autogynephilia) but I think in the end I will achieve a feminized body but live my public life as a male. That is where the money is I think for me but not what I would long to achieve. I wish I knew what I know now when I was your age--things probably would have turned out differently for me.

It still amazes me what a fine line there is between male and female, delineated by such a small tiny amount of some chemical in your body and how it can make such a huge difference in the summation of many little subtle changes. I know which chemicals I want inside me.

I really look forward to your future posts Orva (as well as the continued discussions from others like Tiaria etc...). Thank you again, everyone!

Hugs

Susan

Link to comment

Awwwwwwwwwww, I mean I understand and all but the second verse was really the meat of what I wanted to convey in posting the lyrics. Meh, with the song and band name people can look 'em up anyway, its all good!That is the hard part. I've always rationalized, i.e. screened my emotions through the filter of logic. Getting picked on in school didn't help that any, if anything it has made me steel my emotions even from myself. I think I have slowly been relearning how to feel. I'm beginning to be able to really identity with a character vs. just share sentiments with them or merely think they are cool.At some level I feel like being female is my heart's and my mind's deep desire, that it has been for a long time. But the real problem I face is whenever a conflict of any nature arise in my life my brain is all like, "HI ORVA! A PROBLEM?! NEATO!" *THINK THINK THINK*That's all I got for now. I should sleep. There will be more though.

That reminds from a scene from Star Trek TNG: A Vulcan ambassador is suffering from the early the early stages of Bendii Syndrome, causing him to slowly lose his species' well know composure:

It is illogical for a Vulcan to show anger! Illogical! Illogical! Illogical! Illogical!

With all the bullying I didn't just steel myself; I used reinforced concrete...

Like a veritable Vulcan, I thought logic could solve any problem I would have to face... Was I mistaken?

I have plenty of memories to back up my 'claim', but it all still so confusing...

Sorry, gotta run! I got an appointment at the gym!

Hugs,

Tiaria

Link to comment

...

In a utopian world what would you be? ...starting from your present situation

...

Hi there, Susan!

I once took the COGIATI test, where I found a question very much like that one:

You acquire an incredible power. You can change your sex whenever you wish, and the change is absolutely perfect in either form, male or female. What would you most likely do with such a power?

( ) I would be whatever I felt like as I desired.

( ) I would use it to switch back and forth for fun!

( ) I would be a lot better than dressing up.

(@) I would probably use it to turn female. I would mostly stay that way.

( ) I would turn female and I really would not want to use the power again, actually.

My rationale to chose number four, and not number five, was that it seemed handy to me, to be able to bulk up, when necessary.

The test classified me as "Class 4; Probable Transsexual", but I don't take too much comfort in a questionare based on stereotypes...

Hugs,

Tiaria

Link to comment

Hi Orva. I read your post with much interest. I came out in 2005 but for five years before

I didn't know what was happening inside of me. It seems like another person was trying to come

out of me. All my life I felt that I was different but never knew why.

When I tried on a woman's article for the first time the wheels were set in motion to where I

am today. I denied that I was a crossdresser but after severalweeks I came out to myself. All

the stress and tension dissipated. I embraced whatever came my way. I didn't understand everything

but I embraced it nevertheless. A year later I felt content and happy with who I was.

As time moved forward, I sensed that this journey ran much deeper than clothing and make up. In June

2009 I declared myself a transgenderist. I was equally content in masculine and feminine mode. For

ten months I was content. In April of theis year I sense once again that another road was to be crossed.

For the first time in my journey, I hesitated. I knew that once I crossed this road my life would be

changed forever. In June of this year, I came out as a transsexual. I'm not going to have reassignment

surgery or take hormones because it's not what I desire. I'm content as I am.

In past five plus years I've never been happier in my life. I'm not ashamed or feel guilty about anything.

Society tries to mold me into what I should be but I don't let it happen. Orva, the journey will continue

and there will be questions. I enjoy the experience and I encourage you to do likewise. You are not a freak

or sick. You are a wonderful person would someday will blossom into a beautiful woman.

Gennee

:)

Link to comment

(TEMPER TANTRUM!!!)

Oh, this hurts! Am I just a foot note, or nothing at all?:(

Seeing a friend getting sweet talked, twice, while not getting sweet talked myself, hurts.

Please! Don't you start treating me like I'm just two feet tall, that you don't see me, you would look right over me... I've had enough of that in my life, already...

Not you of all people! :(

I swear, if someone else does the same thing again, I'll off myself! :(

A very despondent Tiaria

Link to comment

I need to go away for a little bit. Please, don't worry its good things, but I don't want them to dampen because of rationalization, or recording. Maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow, there will be a post most epic but for now I need to concentrate on myself and ride out these feelings.

<3

Orva

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