Belief In God Vs. The Bible

[Guest Serene]

I was raised Catholic and I very much appreciate the lessons and morals it has to teach. But sadly it seems most people are content to ignore the views of acceptance rather than "love thy neighbor". I've met plenty of people(I won't say who) who force themselves to be polite in front of others, but once out of earshot of the ones they critisize they readily condemn them, quoting passages from the bible that makes their lifestyle or views a sin. I'm often appalled by the harse hatred in people who consider themselves pious, and when I quote passages in the bible that contradict what they just said, the response I typically recieve is something along the lines of "Well, I'm right and your wrong just because". It's as if they believe they alone are in the graces of God, and it's saddening.

After reading the bible all the way through I discovered many passages contradicting one another and I began to question my religeon. I did research, spoke with priests, studied other religeons(Buddhism and Wiccan among others) and began learning what believing in God was all about. Blind faith alone is dangerous and foolish and can very peossibly blacken ones soul through ignorance. I now believe that everyone needs to find God through love and kindness, that as long as people are good to others and are compassionate than God will accapt anyone with open arms. I also now know Christianity to be one of the more violent religeons, sadly plagued with corruption throughout history, and I no longer trust the bible as a source of religeous beliefs alone as there are more than one version of the bible since it has been altered throughout history to suit the needs of individuals in power. When I expressed my opinions, the same people who condemned others in front of me behind their backs grew abruptly defensive and narrowminded, refusing to even listen to my words even when I managed to trap them in their own contradictory words. The whole situation made me increadibly sad for them, that they are willing to blindly follow a book written by human hands rather than seek God through the common message of treating others with love.

These narrow minded people I mentioned are people I love and care about. I'm interested to know what other's think, if they have similare viewpoints to mine or if they dissagree entirly. Please tell me what you all think?

[Guest ametur_poet]

God's word itself is perfect, but Human interpretation of it is wildly off-base. Also, I am pretty sure that even God dislikes blind faith. God gives us challenges in life so that we can overcome them and grow in faith and understanding. As Humans, we are corrupted by sin, and have not been able to fully understand God's word and put it into action. There needs to be serious changes in Christianity to bring things closer to God's vision of life.

[Guest Risu]

I agree withyou completely Serene. Who knows what has been lost over the ages due to the ignorance and hatred and death people have spread in the name of the christian God.

I realized early on I had to find my own path to God and the God I believe in doesn't care about little things like sexual orientation or altering your body so that you can live in it happily. The God I believe in welcomes all good people with open arms, and who is to judge who is good but he? I do believe that the Bible and religion are great at preserving morals and I am thankful for that, but as Serene said, the true message of the words is lost in the ignorance of the people interpreting them. I like the Bible... but I think it is nothing more than a guide to help those who practice its teachings to live good and moral lives. I do believe that Jesus is the son of my God, and so if I were to take any of the Bible seriously it would be his words. Jesus taught love and acceptance, not hatred and intolerance... still it may have been corrupted by humans, look at the gospels that were left out.... Religion has become a form of controlling people since it's earliset days and is still very much so, which is why we need to find our own significance in its word without twisting the truth.

Yes the old testament does have passages saying men should not lay with other men but for 2 reasons. First of all it was unsanitary and a health risk, then as now but also because it does not produce offspring and the faithful wanted a large nation of followers to lead and continue increasing their numbers.

As for transsexuals in the Bible, the ancient equivalent of a transgendered person most likely would have been the eunuchs and Jesus himself sang the praises of eunuchs. No, ancient eunuchs didn't try to be someone of the opposite sex, that weknow of, but those who became eunuchs and weren't born that way must have had some inner struggles with their sexuality or gender identity and took acceptable measures to preserve their lives and remove the source of their conflicts.

I have not read the bible all the way through yet, but I have studied and founded my beliefs on what I have learned and what I feel in my soul is right. There is no one right or wrong as with anything, so we all need to find for ourselves the foundations upon which we lay our beliefs, and as said above, not just follow blindly.

Wonderful post Serene! Thank you

[Guest Elizabeth K]

A well written TOPIC and the replies are wonderful!

I think what we discus has been around forever, the way people look for answers and find it in faith. BLIND FAITH. That is a problem. Jesus was born into a nation of Law and the strict life of Judaism. He worked with it as that was all that there was. GOD had supposedly led these people for thousands of years, and arguably they were as close to HIS Will a could be had, at the time. But Jesus questioned so much - not the devotion to GOD but instead the unyielding focus on the LAW.

And we have Christianity - two thousand years of it - and again, we are lapsing into a 'LAW' of sorts, the strict interpretation of the Bible. WWJD is a saying of popular use... but... what WOULD Jesus do, if He came back?

Grin

I think he would look around and perhaps first say, 'What part of love one another, did I not make clear?'

So laugh at those Born Again, those Fundamentalist, those (as my mother called them) 'holier than thou" people who think it is all written down... where? In THEIR interpretation of the Bible.

'Pray for them, they know not the error of their ways.'

So yes - read the Bible. I bought it on CD - 60 disks. I listened for two years while I commuted to work, on the car player. YIKES - ALL of it! Not just pieces/parts. Not the 'sanitized' parts.

Yes it contradicts itself. YES it is Old Testament and New Testament and they don't seem to fit well. Yes it is hard to read... and you (and anyone else) can pick and chose what you want, chapter and verse, out of context, and fling SCRIPTURE at anyone to prove YOUR agenda.

BUT

I have a way of thinking about all this. As the need to read hits you, pick up the Bible, ask for the CREATOR (God is only a masculine construct of the CREATOR) to guide you - to lead you to revelation, to the answers to you need. Ask for the GRACE of the CREATOR to intercede.

THAT is how to read it.

'Ignore the modern day profits, for they error mightedly.'

My opinion

Lizzy

[Guest Serene]

Thank you all. I love the points you all make. And I'm glad you noticed, as I forgot to specifically mention, that part of it does include gender and sexuality. Myself and my sisters are all pretty open minded and accepting, a trait that seems more noticable in the younger generation though not inclusive.

I can't bring myself to accept the words "man shall not lay with man". I have friends who are gay and they are some of the kindest, most caring people I know. Your thoughton the Eunuchs is very interesting I think, Risu. I never even though about that. It's definitally something a lot of thought can be put into.

And Christina, you are absolutely right. God's word may be perfect, but human's are imperfect and so their interpretation is as well.

Lol, Lizzy I like your thoughts of what Jesus might do if he came back. And you can't be more on the mark. The major message of Christianity as well as most other religeons I've studied, emplore people to love one another. It just seems perilously rediculous how this concept slips through so many people's minds.

The bible as I understand is more a guidline of how to act, probably filled mostly with allegory than actuall events that truely transpired, but we'll never know in this life whether that's true or not. Obviously some parts are altered or completelly fabricated. I managed to dig up older verses from a bible centuries before the modern day one currently and I've learned some interesting things. For example; Adam origionally had a wife before Eve who was made from the same soil as he. Since they were both created from the same earth by the Creator, they were equals in every way. However during the rise of Patriarchy the church officials demonized Adam's wife, Lilith. An earlier text about that time describes how Lilith refused to submit to Adam when he demanded her and ran from the Garden of Eden. It also says God send the arch angel Gabriel after her to bring her back and if she refused than she would be cast into hell and 1000 of her children would die each day. She refused, and in this version, became the first succubus who hunted men. God would then go on to create Eve from Adam's rib, who would submit to him. Later versions obviously this was ommited as Patriarchy began to wane.

Another source in history shows the earliest religeons portrayed God as a maternal figure. But looking at this knowlege in another way, we can at least see the world is improving somewhat and becoming more accepting. Women used to only be thought to reach God through men, now women are having power returned to them. It gives me hope that people with different orientations will eventually be widely accepted. Someday transgendered individuals may not have to face the kind of torment so many people dish out.

At the same time I feel sorry for those too narrow minded to seek their Creator through love and compassion, preffering their blind faith to the messages of treating others as they would have themselves treated.

[Guest Deandra]

I really believe the Bible has been manipulated over the years. Most things in it are man made and i really can't follow a book like that. That's just what i believe.

Deandra

[Guest April63]

It is important to remember that church and religion are two separate things. Christianity is a religion, and it is a very good religion as well. Churches are physical organizations, while religions transcend physicality. Religion explains who we are, why we're here, where we're going, and how to get there. Churches are the physical organizations that should be teaching and following the practices of religion.

Of course, churches have the ability to be flawed. This doesn't mean they are all wrong or even that one of them is bad. It just means that many churches have adopted interpretations of scripture instead of the religion itself. From here, anything can happen. Many passages can be warped and twisted depending on the interpretation.

So has Christianity done anything wrong over the past millennia? Is it a violent religion? No! Christianity is the same as it has always been: good. People have distorted the truths and have made groups which may not have been the best of groups. These groups may have been violent. They may have been hateful. But they are not Christianity, and it is sad that they have done these things in the name of Christ (who gave them no power or authority to do these acts).

Contradictions? For the most of the Bible, I would say there are none. The contradictions are contradictions in interpretation. We tend to think the Bible is a guidebook. We think it has all the answers and we can just look them up. But really, the Bible is just part of that guidebook. Moreover, it is a collection of writings that were written at different times and places and to different audiences. This is all important to understanding the scriptures, as well as cultural and language differences from 2000+ years ago and now. But when we quote a verse here and there, we typically do not get the whole meaning of the verse or its context. We can easily find two verses that appear to contradict if we just pull them out of different places in the Bible. We need to understand context to get that meaning.

We need to know that the Bible is not the almighty guidebook with topics indexed from A to Z. But instead, it is a collection of records that show the relationship between God and His people. It has good doctrine scattered all through out, and only through dedicated study can we dig it all out and make sense of it. More importantly, we need to ask the Lord for help so that we do not fall into foolish interpretations.

[Guest Barbie]

A couple of things. The Bible was written by many men and then later edited by others. For example, it's pretty much now accepted that the Epistles of St. Paul were changed, added and edited much later by others. For example, transgender is not mentioned. One might say "that's because they didn't know about TG." However, I believe that if it's not there for a reason -- God's reason.

As to homosexuality, there have been different interpretations on that question, but the Bible also believed in stoning for adultery and we do not stone people (well, hopefully). I do not condone adultery but a miserable marriage is like a prison from which there is no release. The Bible did not condone divorce, but divorce is an accepted reality.

The Bible, even written over centuries, was written to an audience who had little understanding of the issues that have come up in the last 100 years. And it's been altered. Even today, compare several present versions and you will find different wording. Also, the Bible was written in ancient languages for which there are no literal translation. They were addressing a people who believed the world was at imminent end and who had little to no formal education. Certainly, medicine was not where it is today. They had no idea of psychology, the workings of the brain and very little knowlege of the body. The Bible you read today is not even a literal translation because no words existed for some of the issues that have arisen in our lifetime.

Last, the Bible is written as metaphor. There's a story of a woman who could not have children and Isiah "healed" her. When her son later died, she said "it is good." And Isiah brought her son back to life. This is a metaphor on belief and faith -- not on death and bereavement. I do not believe the stories were written to be taken "as is" but are to be taken for the message, not as actual fact. Now Isiah may have raised her son from the dead but the point was she believed that all would be well, no matter how the circumstances at present appear to be. It's not so much that her son was rasied from the dead or not but, rather, a message that no matter how bad things appear to be, true faith comes from God and not in the appearance of things. The message is the word of God but how it's depicted in the Bible is a choice of many authors by use of metaphor.

As to your point of non-acceptance, it's impossible to win an argument if scripture is used as you can see the conflict. However, you said that some of the people who are narrow minded are those who you love and care about. Listen to Christ's message on forgiveness. I believe that when those that you want to keep in your life see that you are the same person, they will come to see you as the person they always cared about and loved. It's hard for them and will take time.

I'd like to leave you with one positive thought on the Catholic Church. When Pope Benedict allowed for the use of condoms to prevent the spread of disease, it was a major step and, hopefully, will have further changes toward both the prohibition on birth control and homosexuality. (I personally do not believe prositution to be a "sin."). It may not be enough, but he was saying that the stopping the spread of a deadly disease is the ultimate goal -- and they corrected the gender bias (something got lost in the translation there too). I believe him to be a true pastoralist, unlike so many in the Church hierarchy. I'll bet his words last November set the Vatican on it's head. I think, if he has time, more changes will come.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

[Guest Serene]

All your words are a help, both those in agreement and disagreement, it helps me put things into perspective. I keep an open mind as best I can and am always willing to listen. It's frustrating when I try to talk about religeous topics to people unwilling to have an open mind, as all I recieve in return are interuptions of such people essentially saying "I'm right and you're wrong so I'm not listening. Lalalala!". But I try to be patient and listen to arguments as I know I'm not always right either. But I think asking questions, inquiering into the depth of true beliefs, and daring to ask religeon "what is the truth?" is what hept come to a better understanding of what we believe in.

I also look at many of the stories in the bible as allegory wather than true facts that actually happened. King David, for example, lusted after the wife of a soldier in his army, so he orchistrated that man's death so he could have his wife for himself. As punishment for the murder God took the life of the child the woman had with him days after the baby was born. The child was not at fault and it was the child whose life was taken simply to punish a sin that was not the baby's. This story for example I believe to be allegory, because it contradicts the belief of God's all encompasing benevolence. I just don't believe the Creator would take the life of an innocent just to teach the parents a lesson.

There was a book I saw at the library once, I only gave it a short inspection of curiosity as I was working at the time, but I remember the title as "Misquoting Jesus". It was apparently written by a priest who had his own arguments with the bible. Printed on the back was listed the three major reasons for his beliefs, those being the mistranslation of a variety of languages that were used over two millenia ago, the damaged and missing texts of incomplete passages, and the rewriting of passages as a whole by corrupt officials in power at certain times to control masses. I would have liked to check it out and read it. I would be interested to hear what it says.

Either way, I pray that acceptance and love become more widespread than the violence wroght in the past. And I believe it is getting better too. Sadly there are still individuals with limited views who readily express their distaste toward people who are different than themselves. Since I was twelve I've been afraid to tell my parents how I really felt because I was terrified they wouldn't accept me. I really want people to find God in their hearts and souls instead of relying solely in a book to guide them, it just seems more enlightening to me.