Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest rynae

Non-Op Mtf

Recommended Posts

Guest rynae

what happens to you stuff down there if you refuse to get srs and spend years on estrogen and anti androgen to keep all the female features. Aren't you actually taking a large risk by not having the srs done. Also how can a person have intercourse if there are no longer active down there. To me it seem like a waste of time to keeping what you have instead of going through srs. I mean who would constantly want to tuck down there risking being outed as MTF because their stuff is bulging out of their clothing. Plus i heard of this on incidence where a MTF went to the beach wearing a bikini and their stuff stuck out their underwear. In my oppinion there seem to be more positives of getting srs then not having it. Sure you may never orgasm, but there is a good probility that years on hormones will atrophy the good stuff and render it completely useless. Is it not one of the effects of hormone therapy is to take away your errections completely in a matter of one to two years. I rather have some what of an option for love then none.

I would like to hear all of your oppinions on these subject and especially those that want to go non-op.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Alexandra89

I'm not non-op, so I can't really speak for them.

Maybe some prefer their natural (if impaired in function) genitals to artificially constructed ones on principle. Maybe surgery just hasn't reached a point where they feel they would be satisfied with the results, so they're holding off until techniques get better. This is the reason most FtM's are non-op, yet we're not perplexed by them.

Perhaps they simply aren't bothered by the equipment downstairs, and they either don't care that it can't be used to penetrate (that's different from being sexually inactive - even on hormones it works, it just doesn't get hard enough for penetrative intercourse and ejaculate is reduced) or they're not on hormones either. Some can see themselves simply as women with penises, which shouldn't really concern anyone else, much less invite judgement. I'm sure there isn't just one non-op philosophy.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JaniceW

Rynae,

The points you make are very valid ones. Each of us needs to determine for ourselves what our goals and desires are. Some of us suffer from a very severe and dibilitating body dysmorphia related to our genitals, and others do not. Not having a severe body dysmorphia does not mean the desire to be a woman is any less intensive, it simply means that what it means to be a woman may be different for different ones of us.

Then we need to realize that each of us also has a whole package of different issues related to our life's situation. Some of us are on our teens, 20's, 30's ... 60's, 70's. At each of these life milestones the needs and realities of life are different. To someone in their 20's the issues related to love life are very different than they are for those of us in our 60's ao the issue of genital functionality is different for us. As well someone who is 20 has a very different level of surgical risk than someone in their 60's would have. So when a 60's person is evaluating whether or not to choose SRS the factors influencing the decision are different than someone who is 20.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest rynae

Well, whatever their reason for staying the way they are is definitely going attract more attention to them from society. Even some in our our community are being cold hearted toward them. If i ever met a non op MTF i would would treat them as with kindness and generousity because there is no room for prejudice or descrimination. If only others out there can change their ways and realize that we are all human beings and nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Julie T

Rynae

Hi, that is a pretty good analysis of what goes on, and yes? Why not have SRS? Well there is a bit more to think about also. HRT does remove male function and usually in three months, not one or two years. This is pre and post-op, and it doesn't matter, its just gone?

I am 32 months HRT and have pretty much transitioned? Yes I am preop right now, and it is economic woes that keep me from the SRS because I have my letter. But I never really worry about my old junk, mainly because of my age, and my activity is with another person who knows me. I also do not tuck because of the atrophy, it just disappears in my clothes. Bikinis would work I think, but how many 64 year old women wear bikinis? I think you get the picture?

Those of you who are younger of course, and want to transition, and be the woman you were supposed to be, and be sexually active as a woman, even if your partner knows of your birth sex, well, of course SRS is best, and yes, if I had a male partner now, I would want to have man-woman sex.

I an just giving an opinion, those who chose to go non-op may feel there is no reason for them to do so, the HRT may be all they desire. I doubt they can ever de-transition, especially after a while, and I doubt they are thinking they ever will, so that is not why they chose non-surgery. Some people are rather androgynous and don't want to be anything but either sex at their whim. Some may not be healthy enough for SRS. Other may just feel comfortable just being seen as a woman. I am seen as a woman right now, and I just don't worry about what is between my legs. I don't really even think about it? But I definitely want my SRS, and I feel I have earned that right to make that choice.

I believe there are two other reasons to have SRS. One that people forget about is the issue of safety? If you are raped as a woman, you are likely to survive. If you are raped as preop, when found out you will be murdered.

And of course there is the most obvious reason? We want to be complete.

Julie

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Donna Jean

If i ever met a non op MTF i would would treat them as with kindness and generousity because there is no room for prejudice or descrimination.

But, in all reality......how would you even know?

Remember: There are no pantie checks in Transsexuality!

Huggs

Donna Jean

Share this post


Link to post
Guest EvenClose

I think money is probably the biggest factor. If one decides the role of non-op i would just wonder why not have an orchi at least. That would at least pay for itself over time an you would not have as many things to worry about. Age though too would play a big role. Maybe current relationship? I can see both sides, but I just wouldn't understand not having an orchi at the bare minimum. Me personally Im getting close to 30, srs is a big deal for me. At the same time though Im in a relationship and Its not on the top of my list of things to do. I got 2 kids, so a family and I really just want to be in a position to live life as a female. Like some mentioned, there are things that are tougher to do being non - pre-op, but living life as a woman and getting to do all those things that I have not been able too seems more important at the moment. Once im in a better fiinancial state Ill def. be putting srs at the top of the list. It might be 2 years or 5.

A non-op life would be more difficult. If someone is in a relationship or has someone that it doesn't matter too it would probably be an option I suppose. I mean knives, IV's etc etc. are scary stuff. There is some risk. I really believe its very very individualistic decision. Each only know whats best for them. Making the best out of the time you have left kinda thing..Sad I know..But what else do any of us have really?

Though If i happen to maybe win the lottery...I may bump up that importance just a wee little bit. Still might take a while, not many surgeons close to here and there is a lot of malls between here and any surgeon...>.> I mean its still expensive..gotta license that new convertible and make sure it ain't gonna break down...at 150mph on the freeway to the next shopping center....

Miranda

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Riana

I've often thought about it, and I was never quite sure. Overall I am not terribly dysphoric about my male anatomy. I've had times that I absolutely hated it, some mornings I would wake up and have this feeling like there is something in the way that doesn't belong there. And other times where it just seemed 'neutral', not something to be excited or happy about, but it's just there and it's not going away for a while. For years I believed that to be transsexual I had to want to get rid of it, and so during all that time I told myself I wasn't trans and should just cope with being male. Which I did quite poorly in hindsight.

I don't know where I'll end up. I may end up feeling a need for SRS after all, maybe after transition I will start feeling like the transition is incomplete without it. Or maybe I will live with it for a while and decide for it only much later. I see SRS pretty much as a second transition. The first is where I become myself. The second is where I become whole as a woman. But maybe I'll just feel that I have done enough, and I'm already whole as I am, without surgery?

Share this post


Link to post
Drea
Well, whatever their reason for staying the way they are is definitely going attract more attention to them from society. Even some in our our community are being cold hearted toward them.

Realisitically the instances where someone might have some chance of knowing one didn't have SRS are pretty limited. Unless one's life revolves around being in a bathing suit or in locker rooms, little chance of one knowing other than one's partner and one's doctor.

I have observed that about half of MTF who are in transition, or planning to transition, say they don't want SRS. Often they aren't comforable identifying themselves as some in the community look down upon them. Reasons they give is that SRS is not important to them, others won't know anyway, that they like those parts, and some other reasons. There seems to be no specific age group that expresses this. Seems equally spread between younger and older folks.

While some may expreience total loss of function due to hormones, some don't. Even after extended periods. Others will reduce the amount of hormones they take in order to maintain function.

And while it may seem inconvenient to have to tuck and so on, when one has SRS one is committing to recovery time and other maintence items. I personally don't see a big deal, but everyone has different needs. I read an articale written by someone who had SRS to "be complete" even though they hadn't felt a really strong need for SRS. In that article this person expresses their regrets because it was so much easier for them pre-op than post-op. Goes to show that the presumption that it is harder pre-op doesn't necessarily hold true.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Lacey Lynne

Drea knows whereof she speaks.

Personally, I'm not planning to have SRS/GRS, and I told my gender therapist this. Heck, I saw him (transman) in session just this week. He confirmed everything Drea said above, and he's a renowned gender therapist with lots of experience.

Also, my original gender therapist is very renowned with decades of experience (she's retiring soon) and assured me that many T-girls are opting to remain nonop.

At this point, I'm now 1 year and 7 months on HRT. Everything works just fine. Shrinkage? Some. Function. Slowed. Libido? Intact. Also, my for-now wife (who will always remain a good friend) and I start our divorce proceedings soon.

So, I'll be officially single in a few months. Originally, I identified as a lesbian and still moreorless do. However, going into 2 years on HRT, and I find that my orientation has broadened.

While I do have "pelvic dysphoria" with respect to my guy plumbing, the risks versus benefits analysis germane to having SRS/GRS comes up way shy, and I choose to remain nonop.

So, if I partner with a genetic female, she'll moreorless have to be bisexual, and that's way okay with me. Moreover, most transguys remain nonop because of the expensive and primative nature of their SRS/GRS. Well, if I found a transguy who can deal with having gal plumbing, then that would way work for me.

Just my two-cents' worth. Not everybody will agree. Many will definitely not agree with me. They may say I'm not trans. They may despire me. They may this and they may that. Hey, sorry, Holmes. Ain't gonna change. No apologies proffered forth. I'm okay being me.

Finally, I'm not a frou-frou transgal anyway. Is there such a thing as a butchy gal who has class rather than being crass? Probably not. Is there such a thing as a near-androgyne who presents as a surfer-gal female? Heck, I doubt it. Anyway, that's what I am. Guess what? I'm happy!

Peace Out :lol: Lacey Lynne

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Donna Jean

I have observed that about half of MTF who are in transition, or planning to transition, say they don't want SRS.

Gee, that seems to be a large number of MTF that say they don't want SRS...from my experience, most say that they want it or some form of modification...

... Often they aren't comforable identifying themselves as some in the community look down upon them.

I agree...some in the community do look down on those without SRS...but, no one has to tell what's in their pants...

Reasons they give is that SRS is not important to them, others won't know anyway, that they like those parts, and some other reasons.

All of those reasons are private to us all!

There seems to be no specific age group that expresses this. Seems equally spread between younger and older folks.

While some may expreience total loss of function due to hormones, some don't.

No, some don't....but, most do....

Even after extended periods. Others will reduce the amount of hormones they take in order to maintain function.

True...some want to still be able to use the "male" parts....nothing wrong with that...we all have different needs...

And while it may seem inconvenient to have to tuck and so on, when one has SRS one is committing to recovery time and other maintence items.

That's true...there is a lot of maintenance when one has SRS!

I personally don't see a big deal, but everyone has different needs. I read an articale written by someone who had SRS to "be complete" even though they hadn't felt a really strong need for SRS. In that article this person expresses their regrets because it was so much easier for them pre-op than post-op. Goes to show that the presumption that it is harder pre-op doesn't necessarily hold true.

That is probably true, but, statics show that a very high percentage of post-op girls are happy with having it done and a study from England shows....

They found that 88 per cent of patients were happy with their surgery at their first post-operative clinic visit, seven per cent were unhappy and five per cent made no comment.

So, obviously overall, SRS turns out to be the right thing for many, but not all of us....

Donna Jean

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Donna Jean

Anyway, that's what I am. Guess what? I'm happy!

Peace Out :lol: Lacey Lynne

Oh my goodness.....

You scratched off the ticket and won....

You're happy!

Huggs

Dee Jay

Share this post


Link to post
Drea
personally don't see a big deal, but everyone has different needs. I read an articale written by someone who had SRS to "be complete" even though they hadn't felt a really strong need for SRS. In that article this person expresses their regrets because it was so much easier for them pre-op than post-op. Goes to show that the presumption that it is harder pre-op doesn't necessarily hold true.

That is probably true, but, statics show that a very high percentage of post-op girls are happy with having it done and a study from England shows....

They found that 88 per cent of patients were happy with their surgery at their first post-operative clinic visit, seven per cent were unhappy and five per cent made no comment.

So, obviously overall, SRS turns out to be the right thing for many, but not all of us....

I find it interesting. So often within the community any mention of someone who has had regrets automatically get people's backs up and people have to reassure themselves by grasping for statistics. I never really understood why so many have to challenge a single example brought up to point out how someone who didn't feel a strong need for SRS and had it anyways ended up having regrets. The example obviously doesn't apply to people who feel a strong need.

In a discussion like this, when we are talking about people who choose SRS and those who don't, it seems to me that no statistic can tell anyone that SRS is the right decision for them. I have known people however who have used such statistics as their deciding factor. Like in the example above, they didn't feel the need for SRS, yet they felt "left out" and since most who do have SRS are satisified, well they might as well.

I hope some day, among those transitioning in the community, those who decided not to have SRS can get the same kind of validation than those who do chose to have SRS.

SRS is obviously a personal decision. I could say how I came to the conclusion to have SRS and others may feel their experience is similar, but I think the process of reaching such decision either way is often just as important as the final conclusion. Not everyone has SRS for the same reason. Likewise not everyone choosing not to have SRS decides for the same reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Lacey Lynne

Oh my goodness.....

You scratched off the ticket and won....

You're happy!

Huggs

Dee Jay

Yes! Majorly!

Girl, ya kicked my butt when it really needed kickin' ..., and I deserved it.

A while ago, I was in neurotic freak-out mode. Sorry to annoy the heck outta ya ... and many others on here. Hey, look, none of that was intentional, believe me. The drama. The depression. The doldrums.

Know why? It was "The Long, Deep, Dark Tunnel of Midtransition" where you're stuck in "thing" mode and think that's as far as you'll ever go and that HRT works for everybody else but not for you. That's where I was.

Lately, it's like, OMG.

Goodgodalmight, it's HAPPENING! Guys are holding doors for me. They are checking me out. Gals are generally being nice to me. Get this: These things are happening even when I'm in that Stone Butch Paris Hilton mode I've talked about which is not necessary that feminine. Then, lately, I'm checking out my recent private pics against those of natal women. Guess what?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Like, I'm outta "The Tunnel" and lovin' it! And, maybe I WON'T stay nonop afterall.

:blush: Lacey

Thanks for puttin' up with me. Was a rough ride. Appreciate it bigtime though.

;) Lacey

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   4 Members, 0 Anonymous, 16 Guests (See full list)

    • Clara84
    • Xxirishbratxx
    • Rylie M
    • TessaOKC
  • Topics With Zero Replies

  • Posts

    • TessaOKC
      Here we go again Carolyn!!! You throw meaningful articles out there that usually result in really good  debates, thank you !!!   I have read two books by Jen Boylan and she is as real as they get. I also like that she's from Maine !!   The listed article really hit home while reading a quote from Kristen Beck, “What you wear, what color you are, your religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity has no basis on whether you are a criminal or not.”  Yes indeed. I support Eric Snowden and the courage it took for him to expose unprecedented abuses of power by the United States. His motives were clear, his intentions were more than obvious. Perhaps I still need more understanding,  but I have yet to wrap my head around the motives and intentions of the information released by Chelsea Manning...??? All I do know is that there is a sea of negativism surrounding her  and now her unqualified run for public office.   I spend hours every week at the  VA hospital attending LGBT group meetings. The horrible comments and ridicule I see on a weekly basis toward our transgender Vets walking the halls is unmatched by what I have experienced in public. A good friend straightened me out on this. He says the VA is filled with  right wingers. Yes it appears this is true. Since this whole Chelsea Manning running for Senate thing started it has gotten even worse, trust me!   I have posted on this site previously  that I merely wish Manning could be grateful for being free and go live a quiet, happy  and public free life. Jen Boylan echos this. I oh- so- admire the piss and vinegar Manning has but she is in fact a convicted felon embodied in a sea of perceived public hatred.   Like the hateful Vets at the VA, I don't think we will ever change their minds about accepting trans humans. . Not in this lifetime. Say what you will but it is my true belief that we need positive examples. Though she's not my favorite but Kristen Beck is right up there. Retired Navy Seal that served with honor and distinction. The author of this article, Professor Jennifer Boylan is another. This list goes on and on, doctors, lawyers, politicians, successful entrepreneurs . I support Chelsea manning as a trans woman and human being. I do not support her for a  Senate run, and her public exposure merely adds fuel to the fire of hatred already directed toward innocent trans people like me and you ......   In the brutal world of public opinion there is a saying; "Its not what you are but what people think you are."  I love and deeply respect our transgender community. You will never find such courageous people as represented in the transgender world. We proudly serve in  every profession, military branch, labor force and service industries. We never ask for recognition or a pat on the back, all most of us want is to be allowed to live our authentic lives free of murder, rape and ridicule.  Is Manning helping that cause?? What is your opinion??   Sincerely,   Tess
    • Gwen
      Thanks for your thoughts and especially this, Laura Beth. Many of us may have faced clues along the way and didn't understand them until much later in life. It wasn't until I came out to myself, with the help of a therapist, that the confusion I faced throughout my life finally made sense. And yes, the future is brighter.   Gwen
    • Timber Wolf
      Good morning everyone!❤   Happy Birthday rorylm!🎂 Hope you have a wonderful day!   Lots of love, Timber Wolf🐾
    • Charlize
      Ms. Boylan has such an honest rational voice.  Manning's candidacy may or not be helpful for our community.  It may go nowhere but she does have every reason to be angry. In my opinion did little more than was done by reporters in the past who were actually able to report what they saw during Viet Nam rather than only reciting what they were told by the military.   Many may not agree with me about that and that is fine but allowing us to see some of the atrocities of the war was in some ways an heroic, if illegal, act.  That being said i'm certainly not sure that makes her any more qualified for office than being a slumlord in NY does.   Hugs,   Charlize  
    • Charlize
      One of the great advantages of going to a therapist was having an opportunity to remember and share a lifetime of experiences similar to those you describe.  Somehow being open and honest was a step i needed in finding the strength and confidence to follow my path.   Thank you for reminding me of my past as well as sharing your own.   Hugs,   Charlize
    • tracy_j
      It all gets a bit complicated at times   Here it it a standing joke about not having to see someone's medical records to know their issues, just sit in the reception at the doctors surgery and listen to the receptionist! Not really funny, but it happens a lot.   For me it is a daily thing as I am not planning a namechange etc in the near future, but only occasionally gets too much. Its always going to be easier wth one name and one gender.   Tracy
    • tracy_j
      Hi Tali Welcome   Tracy x  
    • Carolyn Marie
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/opinion/chelsea-manning-senate.html?mtrref=t.co&assetType=opinion&_r=0   Carolyn Marie
    • Rachel Gia
      Hi, Although the basis of my meditation come from a book on Buddism the spiritual aspect of my life is based around being thankful for what I have and for the people I know and to participate with that which is around me the basis of which is understanding and practicing love. i like Buddism a lot but prefer if people use their own words when conveying something.  If I had the determination and attention span to read the Quoran and find a Master I would say I would align myself with Sufism but that's not going to happen so I have to be content being an Abrahamist with Big Book leanings. This is not my own words but sort of in fact. Love God (your version) and treat others with kindness and love:) The rest is commentary. Reading this made things easy for me. In light of the simplicity I feel that spirituality should not possess an inaccessible quality to it.  Why I like Sufism is the belief that "love is the highest station of the soul."
    • ElissaMtF
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. rorylm
      rorylm
      (68 years old)
  • Upcoming Events

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      64,702
    • Total Posts
      585,793
  • TransPulse Partners

×